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Pregnant, violent father threatening to take daughter away when born Ohio

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  • Pregnant, violent father threatening to take daughter away when born Ohio

    Hi everyone.. I wanted to get some input on my situation since you all know more about custody matters than I do. Well, here is my situation. I'm 19, unwed, and pregnant. Due in January. My ex and I lived together and were engaged when I became pregnant. I was considered high-risk and I wasn't medically allowed to work. He couldn't keep a job and so I never had the food I needed, and we couldn't pay our bills. I moved back in with my father, and we were still together at the time. My ex and I still saw each other, but when we did we never got along and things really weren't going well with us at all. I ended the relationship, but we agreed to still be friends and keep in contact alot. Not long after that he moved and didn't tell me where he was. The only way I knew how to contact him was over the internet, so I wrote him every couple of weeks; asking him if he wanted to be part of his daughter's life at all. And that if he did then we should try to come up with a custody agreement ourselves to avoid dealing with the hastle of court. After a couple of months he finally wrote me back, denying it is his child and refusing to help me in any way. He also said some really mean things in that email. I hadn't heard anything else from him until tonight. His mother called me and threatened me, saying that my ex was going to take my daughter away when she is born. Now this really worries me.. If there's any chance he can take her. He has a history of physical abuse.. He's taken court ordered domestic violence/anger management classes 4 times (and he's only 20.) He has a 2 year old son that he "dropped" when he was an infant, and he ended up having 11 breaks in his skull and his ribs were bruised. They investigated that for 2 years, because they thought it was domestic violence. He's also on intensive probation, for driving uninsured without a license. I'm scared for her to be around him, I don't trust it at all. If he's going to be around her then I would like to have supervised visitation. So, I have a few questions if you could give me the honor of helping me out with.

    When she is born, is there a certain age she would have to be for him to be able to take her to his house for visitation? What if she is breastfeeding? How capable do you think he would be of getting full custody? As far as I know he doesn't even have any of the things she would need, and he would need to take care of her and I have a nursery set up. Where should I go from here? I still have a month or 2 until she is born. Should I take to child services, should I get a lawyer? His mother informed me that my ex already has a lawyer. Well, thankyou for reading and for any answers
    Last edited by miranda4202006; 11-12-2006, 07:21 PM. Reason: Spelling error

  • #2
    Upon the baby's birth, he will have to establish paternity... and then court ordered visitation on child support will be agreed upon and made into a court order.

    He is entitled to time with his new child... even when she is very young. However, you can seek the court's help in establishing proper boundaries.
    Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

    I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

    Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by miranda4202006 View Post
      Hi everyone.. I wanted to get some input on my situation since you all know more about custody matters than I do. Well, here is my situation. I'm 19, unwed, and pregnant. Due in January. My ex and I lived together and were engaged when I became pregnant. I was considered high-risk and I wasn't medically allowed to work. He couldn't keep a job and so I never had the food I needed, and we couldn't pay our bills. I moved back in with my father, and we were still together at the time. My ex and I still saw each other, but when we did we never got along and things really weren't going well with us at all. I ended the relationship, but we agreed to still be friends and keep in contact alot. Not long after that he moved and didn't tell me where he was. The only way I knew how to contact him was over the internet, so I wrote him every couple of weeks; asking him if he wanted to be part of his daughter's life at all. And that if he did then we should try to come up with a custody agreement ourselves to avoid dealing with the hastle of court. After a couple of months he finally wrote me back, denying it is his child and refusing to help me in any way. He also said some really mean things in that email. I hadn't heard anything else from him until tonight. His mother called me and threatened me, saying that my ex was going to take my daughter away when she is born. Now this really worries me.. If there's any chance he can take her. He has a history of physical abuse.. He's taken court ordered domestic violence/anger management classes 4 times (and he's only 20.) He has a 2 year old son that he "dropped" when he was an infant, and he ended up having 11 breaks in his skull and his ribs were bruised. They investigated that for 2 years, because they thought it was domestic violence. He's also on intensive probation, for driving uninsured without a license. I'm scared for her to be around him, I don't trust it at all. If he's going to be around her then I would like to have supervised visitation. So, I have a few questions if you could give me the honor of helping me out with.

      When she is born, is there a certain age she would have to be for him to be able to take her to his house for visitation? What if she is breastfeeding? How capable do you think he would be of getting full custody? As far as I know he doesn't even have any of the things she would need, and he would need to take care of her and I have a nursery set up. Where should I go from here? I still have a month or 2 until she is born. Should I take to child services, should I get a lawyer? His mother informed me that my ex already has a lawyer. Well, thankyou for reading and for any answers
      Well first of all congrats on a little girl.I dont know how it works in the state that u live in as far custody I can tell u this he and his mother are TRYING to scare you into panic mode.Which is wrong.All young guys deny the child most of them a retarted.Custody no way! vistation maybe he has to prove you unfit in a courts eyes .If he couldnt pay bills how the hell can he afford a lawyer .You have the baby let them say what ever they want.As long as your are stable and can take the baby to a safe enviroment the courts arent going to bother with petty Im a mommas boy crap.Im 20 Im a mother of 1 hes 4 the father a loser hes in jail. well im also kinda in the same boat with my unborn Im 4 months he is a 21 yr old jobless lifeless kid who needs to grow up YOU do whats best for your child as far as I would be concerned your the mama if u think hes to bad file a restrianing order having a baby takes alot u dont need the stress .Dont take no phone calls if he has a ''LAWYER'' then you will see him in court . Till then your doing the right thing stay away from him .Make sure u get a dna then u take his *** down town .If hes goin to be a father then he has to make that choice u cant chase him around. I would focus on 6week post partdum the baby get plenty of rest gear up and put that retard behind u .When hes ready to be a father hell come around .If not then your mommyand daddy Girl Ive been doin it for almost 5 years . well good luck write if u want [email protected] other than that youll be a momma soon you have bigger fish to fry.keep your head up dont ever show fear especially not to no man sincerly Victoria

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by angryforhim View Post
        Well first of all congrats on a little girl.I dont know how it works in the state that u live in as far custody I can tell u this he and his mother are TRYING to scare you into panic mode.Which is wrong.All young guys deny the child most of them a retarted.Custody no way! vistation maybe he has to prove you unfit in a courts eyes .If he couldnt pay bills how the hell can he afford a lawyer .You have the baby let them say what ever they want.As long as your are stable and can take the baby to a safe enviroment the courts arent going to bother with petty Im a mommas boy crap.Im 20 Im a mother of 1 hes 4 the father a loser hes in jail. well im also kinda in the same boat with my unborn Im 4 months he is a 21 yr old jobless lifeless kid who needs to grow up YOU do whats best for your child as far as I would be concerned your the mama if u think hes to bad file a restrianing order having a baby takes alot u dont need the stress .Dont take no phone calls if he has a ''LAWYER'' then you will see him in court . Till then your doing the right thing stay away from him .Make sure u get a dna then u take his *** down town .If hes goin to be a father then he has to make that choice u cant chase him around. I would focus on 6week post partdum the baby get plenty of rest gear up and put that retard behind u .When hes ready to be a father hell come around .If not then your mommyand daddy Girl Ive been doin it for almost 5 years . well good luck write if u want [email protected] other than that youll be a momma soon you have bigger fish to fry.keep your head up dont ever show fear especially not to no man sincerly Victoria

        Could we please try to stay away from the offensive descriptions of the father of her child? Some of us don't find "retard" funny.
        Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

        I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

        Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't get upset, rememeber you are pregnant. Congrats!!! As of right now paternity has not been established. I agree with Victoria if you feel at all threatened get a restraining order. You need to establish a lawyer as well. Start looking now. It sounds like you have a lot to prove that he is unfit. If he has had court ordered anger management ordered then a lawyer would be able to get that info for you, unless it involved you then you should be able to obtain it.
          Stay calm and don't let them get to you. Grandma has no business calling you and getting you upset when she should already be well aware that your pregnancy is High risk. Write everything down. Esp that phone call. Start keeping a notebook.

          As for a breastfed baby. That does not stop visitations....breastmilk can be pumped and stored in the freezer. Therefore should be able to be given to dad for visitation times.
          Not an expert just stating what I know from experience and or moral standings

          Comment


          • #6
            Are you addicted to drugs and or alcohol? Are you a violent felon? Have you ever lost parental rights to another child? Do you live under a bridge? Do you hear voices? If no to all of the above, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN TAKE CUSTODY OF YOUR CHILD FROM YOU!!!


            You need to get brave, put your foot down to this abuse and FIGHT BACK.

            1. Get a telephone recorder (Radio Shack). In the state of Ohio, only one person (you) needs to know that you are recording the conversation. When they call, record all conversations. When you have a tape of their threats..........

            2. File for a restraining order and bring the taped recordings to both hearings. The ExParte hearing gives you a temporary restraining order. You will then have a hearing where all parties are present. Bring the tapes.

            3. Go to all police departments where there may be reports on your exBF and his family and get copies of all incident and arrest records. You can do this with #2 also depending on how big of a hurry you are in.

            4. When you get to court for visitation, present all of these things, the recordings, the restraining order, and the police reports.....and try not to giggle when the judge says.......supervised visitation only at the discretion of the mother.


            You can do this. Keep your head up. Try to avoid all in-person contact if possible. Do NOT let these people intimidate you!!!
            Last edited by Ohio "Step" Mom; 11-13-2006, 04:48 AM.
            Don't listen to a word I say because ya know I've gotta be crazy to be a Brown's fan.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ohio "Step" Mom View Post
              Are you addicted to drugs and or alcohol? Are you a violent felon? Have you ever lost parental rights to another child? Do you live under a bridge? Do you hear voices? If no to all of the above, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN TAKE CUSTODY OF YOUR CHILD FROM YOU!!!


              You need to get brave, put your foot down to this abuse and FIGHT BACK.

              1. Get a telephone recorder (Radio Shack). In the state of Ohio, only one person (you) needs to know that you are recording the conversation. When they call, record all conversations. When you have a tape of their threats..........

              2. File for a restraining order and bring the taped recordings to both hearings. The ExParte hearing gives you a temporary restraining order. You will then have a hearing where all parties are present. Bring the tapes.

              3. Go to all police departments where there may be reports on your exBF and his family and get copies of all incident and arrest records. You can do this with #2 also depending on how big of a hurry you are in.

              4. When you get to court for visitation, present all of these things, the recordings, the restraining order, and the police reports.....and try not to giggle when the judge says.......supervised visitation only at the discretion of the mother.


              You can do this. Keep your head up. Do NOT let these people intimidate you!!!

              Great advice!

              In addition, don't be scared to have the Department of Child Services verify that the bf's current dwelling is outfitted for a newborn... diapers, crib, toys, no exposed electrical outlets... the whole banana.
              Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

              I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

              Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow, thankyou for all of your input! It's greatly appreciated. And thanks for the congrats =) I can't wait to meet my little one.
                My father has a telephone recorder, I will start using it if and when they call again. As for seeing him in person, since he just got his car impunded and lives an hour away I don't know if that would be an issue. I will look into getting a restraining order anyhow, just to be safe. I think this is mainly his mother's doing, he hasn't personally expressed any interest in seeing his daughter. As far as I know, he lives with his friend who has parties at his house almost every night. That is NOT the kind of place I want my daughter to be. Though he could tell the courts that he lives with his mother, which he probably will. Can I legally obtain his arrest records? I'm going to get a lawyer as soon as possible. I don't want him seeing her unsupervised and that's my main worry now. Does anyone know if it's hard to get court ordered supervised visitation? The things that happened with his son, happened when he was still a minor.. Will those show up on his record or will they have been exponged? Even if they are then the courts should be able to bring it up shouldn't they? I'm going to call the department of child services first thing tomorrow and talk to them about the siutation. Hopefully they can help me out a bit. Thanks again for your input, it's nice to know that they're trying to intimidate me and that there is really nothing they can do to take my daughter away. As the previous poster said;

                "Are you addicted to drugs and or alcohol? Are you a violent felon? Have you ever lost parental rights to another child? Do you live under a bridge? Do you hear voices? If no to all of the above, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN TAKE CUSTODY OF YOUR CHILD FROM YOU!!!"

                Nope, I have no issues that would cause any problems. I have a clean record, and so does my family. I live with my dad, who is on disability and stays at home all day "taking care of the house". I have a nursery set up for her, and have everything that she will need. Along with lots of support from my family. So maybe I did get a bit paranoid about this.. But it was so hard not to worry when I got that threat, the thought of losing her never crossed my mind until then.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Custody

                  I'm not sure where you live so the laws may be different but I have 6 kids and have been through the court system so much I can give you a little info. I also worked for the Police Department here which also gave me valuable information.

                  When a child is born, without going to court to get an order, the parent that has the child has custody. Without a court order your baby's dad could pick her up anywhere, from anyone and if you tried to get help to get her back, legally, you wouldn't be able to find anyone to help. You would have to take her back or steal her back, etc... The only way to ensure this doesn't happen is to let WHOEVER is taking care of her (daycare, family, etc...) know that she is NOT to be released to him and tell them why. TO BE SURE, even though the courts SUCK and DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT ANYONE, you should file for custody. With the info you've given, it will be really easy to get custody and supervised visitation.

                  If you live in California I could also help you with your paperwork if you needed it. I'm only offering my help because I am a single mom and have had ABSOLUTELY NO MONEY to pay for attorneys and court filing/court paperwork fees. I've filled them out so many times by myself that NOW I'm a PRO, hahah..Anyway let me know how things are going and if you want my help I'd be happy to help you out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by summermoreno View Post
                    When a child is born, without going to court to get an order, the parent that has the child has custody. Without a court order your baby's dad could pick her up anywhere, from anyone and if you tried to get help to get her back, legally, you wouldn't be able to find anyone to help. You would have to take her back or steal her back, etc...
                    This would only be true if the two people were married. She is a single parent (to be) and as such has sole custody. The unmarried father has to first prove paternity and then seek visitation. Only then would he have legal rights to the child.

                    Daycare providers and schools can only (by law) allow persons you specify as able to pick up a child to do so.

                    YES you can obtain police incident and arrest reports even back to his juvenile records. It is public information. They mark out social security numbers but the rest of the information is available. Police departments usually charge 10 cents per page for incident reports and $3-4 for arrest records. Just go to the records department of the Police / Sheriff's offices and you can request the information. Most of the time they don't even ask why you want the information. Some states don't do this but Ohio definitely does. (I was able to track down 73 incident reports and 28 arrest records going back to the age of 15, for my step daughters mother after the child was taken by children's services, and I now have guardianship. Her mother has visitation when or if the child's father says so.) Even though juvenile records are expunged, the original police report will still contain the information. Juvenile incident reports are not expunged, only records of arrest and incarceration for juvenile offenders are not available.

                    Like I said, you can do this. Don't listen to the "steal your child back" nonsense because that is just plain wrong.
                    Last edited by Ohio "Step" Mom; 11-13-2006, 10:18 PM. Reason: Wrote the first part and submitted it to ward off a panic attack by the OP because this information was so very wrong.
                    Don't listen to a word I say because ya know I've gotta be crazy to be a Brown's fan.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [ 3109.04.2] 3109.042. Custody rights of unmarried mother.

                      An unmarried female who gives birth to a child is the sole residential parent and legal custodian of the child until a court of competent jurisdiction issues an order designating another person as the residential parent and legal custodian. A court designating the residential parent and legal custodian of a child described in this section shall treat the mother and father as standing upon an equality when making the designation.

                      In English: A single mother's rights trump all other's rights until a court says so.

                      Link for the Ohio Revised Code:

                      http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing...-h.htm&cp=PORC


                      This link has every law in the state of Ohio. Search around a bit in the Juvenile and Domestic Relations sections and I know you will feel better about your situation!

                      Good Luck Kiddo!!!
                      Don't listen to a word I say because ya know I've gotta be crazy to be a Brown's fan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ohio Law

                        I mentioned in my post that I wasn't sure what state this was in. I live in California. I had a similar situation and was told by the OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY CHILD ABDUCTION UNIT (the Investigator) THAT IF I WANTED MY CHILDREN BACK BEFORE I WENT TO COURT, WHICH I WAS ENTITLED TO, (FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM) STEAL THEM BACK. It may be nonsense in Ohio but here it stands true.

                        He does not have to prove paternity either. If the child is with him, she will have to #1 prove that he is NOT the father and #2 go to court to get custody before she will the child back. (unless she takes him)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You may list as many of the hoity toity offices and tell as many horror stories as you like, however, again, this is OHIO law, not California. Unless a man has proof (DNA) testing that is approved and accepted through the court (for which the mother has to cooperate and make the child available) OR the father is listed on the birth certificate, and he signs that birth certificate, he has NO RIGHTS.

                          3109.12. Parenting time, companionship or visitation rights where mother is unmarried.
                          (A) If a child is born to an unmarried woman, the parents of the woman and any relative of the woman may file a complaint requesting the court of common pleas of the county in which the child resides to grant them reasonable companionship or visitation rights with the child. If a child is born to an unmarried woman and if the father of the child has acknowledged the child and that acknowledgment has become final pursuant to section 2151.232 [2151.23.2], 3111.25, or 3111.821 [3111.82.1] of the Revised Code or has been determined in an action under Chapter 3111. of the Revised Code to be the father of the child, the father may file a complaint requesting that the court of appropriate jurisdiction of the county in which the child resides grant him reasonable parenting time rights with the child and the parents of the father and any relative of the father may file a complaint requesting that the court grant them reasonable companionship or visitation rights with the child.
                          (B) The court may grant the parenting time rights or companionship or visitation rights requested under division (A) of this section, if it determines that the granting of the parenting time rights or companionship or visitation rights is in the best interest of the child. In determining whether to grant reasonable parenting time rights or reasonable companionship or visitation rights with respect to any child, the court shall consider all relevant factors, including, but not limited to, the factors set forth in division (D) of section 3109.051 [3109.05.1] of the Revised Code. Divisions (C), (K), and (L) of section 3109.051 [3109.05.1] of the Revised Code apply to the determination of reasonable parenting time rights or reasonable companionship or visitation rights under this section and to any order granting any such rights that is issued under this section.

                          The marriage or remarriage of the mother or father of a child does not affect the authority of the court under this section to grant the natural father reasonable parenting time rights or the parents or relatives of the natural father or the parents or relatives of the mother of the child reasonable companionship or visitation rights with respect to the child.

                          If the court denies a request for reasonable parenting time rights or reasonable companionship or visitation rights made pursuant to division (A) of this section and the complainant files a written request for findings of fact and conclusions of law, the court shall state in writing its findings of fact and conclusions of law in accordance with Civil Rule 52.

                          Except as provided in division (E)(6) of section 3113.31 of the Revised Code, if the court, pursuant to this section, grants parenting time rights or companionship or visitation rights with respect to any child, it shall not require the public children services agency to provide supervision of or other services related to that parent's exercise of parenting time rights with the child or that person's exercise of companionship or visitation rights with the child. This section does not limit the power of a juvenile court pursuant to Chapter 2151. of the Revised Code to issue orders with respect to children who are alleged to be abused, neglected, or dependent children or to make dispositions of children who are adjudicated abused, neglected, or dependent children or of a common pleas court to issue orders pursuant to section 3113.31 of the Revised Code.


                          ********This is also a double edged sword. The mother cannot get child support unless paternity is acknowledged by the father or the relationship is determined by DNA testing and approved by the court.

                          [ 2151.23.1] 2151.231. Child support order without regard to marital status of parents.
                          The parent, guardian, or custodian of a child, the person with whom a child resides, or the child support enforcement agency of the county in which the child, parent, guardian, or custodian of the child resides may bring an action in a juvenile court or other court with jurisdiction under section 2101.022 [2101.02.2] or 2301.03 of the Revised Code under this section requesting the court to issue an order requiring a parent of the child to pay an amount for the support of the child without regard to the marital status of the child's parents. No action may be brought under this section against a person presumed to be the parent of a child based on an acknowledgment of paternity that has not yet become final under former section 3111.211 [3111.21.1] or 5101.314 [5101.31.4] or section 2151.232 [2151.23.2], 3111.25, or 3111.821 [3111.82.1] of the Revised Code.

                          The parties to an action under this section may raise the issue of the existence or nonexistence of a parent-child relationship, unless a final and enforceable determination of the issue has been made with respect to the parties pursuant to Chapter 3111. of the Revised Code or an acknowledgment of paternity signed by the child's parents has become final pursuant to former section 3111.211 [3111.21.1] or 5101.314 [5101.31.4] or section 2151.232 [2151.23.2], 3111.25, or 3111.821 [3111.82.1] of the Revised Code. If a complaint is filed under this section and an issue concerning the existence or nonexistence of a parent-child relationship is raised, the court shall treat the action as an action pursuant to sections 3111.01 to 3111.18 of the Revised Code. An order issued in an action under this section does not preclude a party to the action from bringing a subsequent action pursuant to sections 3111.01 to 3111.18 of the Revised Code if the issue concerning the existence or nonexistence of the parent-child relationship was not determined with respect to the party pursuant to a proceeding under this section, a proceeding under Chapter 3111. of the Revised Code, or an acknowledgment of paternity that has become final under former section 3111.211 [3111.21.1] or 5101.314 [5101.31.4] or section 2151.232 [2151.23.2], 3111.25, or 3111.821 [3111.82.1] of the Revised Code. An order issued pursuant to this section shall remain effective until an order is issued pursuant to sections 3111.01 to 3111.18 of the Revised Code that a parent-child relationship does not exist between the alleged father of the child and the child or until the occurrence of an event described in section 3119.88 of the Revised Code that would require the order to terminate.

                          The court, in accordance with sections 3119.29 to 3119.56 of the Revised Code, shall include in each support order made under this section the requirement that one or both of the parents provide for the health care needs of the child to the satisfaction of the court.




                          No OHIO court is going to say "Okie Dokie, you can have rights / custody to and of any child who you say you are the father." It has to be proven first and accepted / approved by the court.

                          And another point, biology tells us that children come from the female of the species. Therefore, from birth, the child is in the sole legal and physical custody of the unmarried mother unless she (in this case loses her mind and) just hands over this child to the father, who still would not have legal right to such custody unless there is a concede (by the mother) and acknowledgement (by the father) that the child is his, or they marry prior to the birth of the child. (She CONCEDES by putting his name on the birth certificate and he AKNOWLEDGES by signing the birth certificate.) Only then does the father have legal rights from the day of birth.

                          Please stop with the child stealing crap.
                          Last edited by Ohio "Step" Mom; 11-14-2006, 05:11 AM.
                          Don't listen to a word I say because ya know I've gotta be crazy to be a Brown's fan.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by summermoreno View Post
                            I mentioned in my post that I wasn't sure what state this was in. I live in California. I had a similar situation and was told by the OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY CHILD ABDUCTION UNIT (the Investigator) THAT IF I WANTED MY CHILDREN BACK BEFORE I WENT TO COURT, WHICH I WAS ENTITLED TO, (FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM) STEAL THEM BACK. It may be nonsense in Ohio but here it stands true.

                            He does not have to prove paternity either. If the child is with him, she will have to #1 prove that he is NOT the father and #2 go to court to get custody before she will the child back. (unless she takes him)
                            This just does not seem right. If that is the case then any Tom, **** or Harry could just grab any kid he wants off the street and claim them as his own. THATS CRAZY!!!!!!
                            Not an expert just stating what I know from experience and or moral standings

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stepmom33 View Post
                              This just does not seem right. If that is the case then any Tom, **** or Harry could just grab any kid he wants off the street and claim them as his own. THATS CRAZY!!!!!!

                              Naw, she's just crazy, uninformed, or is one of those that just like to panic young posters (in which case you would add cruel to the aforementioned).
                              Last edited by Ohio "Step" Mom; 11-14-2006, 04:40 AM.
                              Don't listen to a word I say because ya know I've gotta be crazy to be a Brown's fan.

                              Comment

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