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  • Not Paid For A Holiday CA California

    Hi

    I work for a large company bank.
    There was a recent debate over whether the tellers would be paid for veteranís day. We were told by our managers that we would not be paid because we didn't "normally work that day and were scheduled our full hours". We debated that it said right in the company policy that it was a paid holiday no matter what your schedule was. We called HR and they said "Oh yeah, you guys get paid no matter what."

    Well THEN the managers told us that they had to get approval to go back in and adjust it because it was on the previous work week and therefore had already been submitted but that we would be paid. We just got our pay stubs for our paycheck on friday 11/27/09, and the holiday (which should have been reflected on this paycheck) is nowhere to be found.

    Can they do that? With hold our holiday pay like that because THEY messed up? It seems like they are unfairly holding a portion of our wages that THEIR company policy said we should be paid.

    Is there anything that we can do, demand our missed holiday pay? Or do we have to wait two weeks? Some of us really need that little bit of money

    thanks for any help

  • #2
    Given that they have no legal obligation to provide holiday pay at all, and they are particularly not required to pay you for a holiday when you normally wouldn't even be working, I don't think it would be wise for you to be making demands.
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

    Comment


    • #3
      I understand that but since it is THEIR policy to pay us holiday pay on a day that we are closed....then by not paying us they are not following their own policy...I guess there's no legal issues but it is just plain rude.

      And trust me, if you knew what kind of labor laws this bank DOES break on a constant basis you'd know WHY a lot of us demand certain things from them.

      Comment


      • #4
        It may be rude, but that doesn't make it illegal. The law is not going to force them to run a separate payroll for you to get paid for a holiday a few days sooner.

        And it will also be legal if they decide that there's been too much trouble over the issue and they will no longer provide pay for holidays.
        The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

        Comment


        • #5
          If the bank breaks labor laws in other areas then that should be the specifics you complain about.

          Comment


          • #6
            cbg, you are 100% wrong! An employer cannot tell the employee "you have veteran's day off, and will get paid for it" and then not pay you for it. This was part of the compensation the employee and employer agreed to, thus creating a contract. As such, the employer has a contractual obligation to pay for the holiday. Your long held theory that one party, the employer, can unilaterally change the terms of a contract without the other party's (the employee) consent will not hold water in a courtroom, or even in a DLSE "Berman hearing."
            "The most patriotic people in America are the working class" - Cecil Roberts - President UMWA

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            • #7
              I'd love to see the citation for that, mcarson. Employers can and o change contracts all the time. It's at will employment. Unless you have a written contract with a termination of contract date, it can be altered by the employer. The employee can accept or be fired.
              I am not an attorney, and don't play one on TV. Any information given is a description only and should be verified by your attorney.

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              • #8
                Is there anything that we can do, demand our missed holiday pay? Or do we have to wait two weeks?
                So, are they going to pay you on the next paycheck?
                I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alice Dodd View Post
                  I'd love to see the citation for that, mcarson. Employers can and o change contracts all the time. It's at will employment. Unless you have a written contract with a termination of contract date, it can be altered by the employer. The employee can accept or be fired.
                  I think you are missing the point. Contracts are not changed unilaterally without the other parties consent, there must be acceptance by the other party, or there is no contract. If the parties cannot come to an agreement then ostensibly the employment relationship could not continue. If the employer notifies the employee(s) that holidays would no longer be paid henceforth, then the employees have the option to either reject the terms, and thereby end the contract and their employment, or accept and continue their employment. But that doesn't seem to be the case, does it?

                  In summary, unless the terms were altered prior to the holiday and the employee accepted this arrangement, then there was no change to the contract, and the original agreement would remain in full force.
                  Last edited by mcarson87; 11-30-2009, 09:49 AM.
                  "The most patriotic people in America are the working class" - Cecil Roberts - President UMWA

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                  • #10
                    The poster said "Or do we have to wait two weeks?"

                    That implies that the company IS going to pay.
                    I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The company policy is not a contract and is subject to change or being declared out of date and no longer effective. And they're not saying it won't be paid, just that it will be paid later.

                      Get over it - way too many people are unemployed these days and cannot find work of any kind. Pick your battles - this isn't a hill to die on.
                      I am not an attorney, and don't play one on TV. Any information given is a description only and should be verified by your attorney.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Alice Dodd View Post
                        The company policy is not a contract and is subject to change or being declared out of date and no longer effective. And they're not saying it won't be paid, just that it will be paid later.
                        Alice, a generalization that "The company policy is not a contract" is highly inaccurate as many times the terms of a company policy can be interpreted as contractual language. Further, there is always, at the very least, a contract to employee wages/compensation; an employment relationship could not exist otherwise. If the terms stipulating compensation are no longer in effect, as you suggest, then what contract is in effect? None? So the employee never agreed to holiday pay as a condition of employment? Your theory is highly illogical.

                        digit, your holiday pay would arguably have been earned on the date in which the holiday falls upon and therefore should have been paid on the same date that any other wages earned within that pay period were paid.


                        Originally posted by Alice Dodd View Post
                        Get over it - way too many people are unemployed these days and cannot find work of any kind. Pick your battles - this isn't a hill to die on.
                        I hear this all too often. It's a good thing that everyone doesn't take this approach! We'd all be working for practically nothing if nobody ever risked their jobs to stand up for something.
                        "The most patriotic people in America are the working class" - Cecil Roberts - President UMWA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I want to hear from the OP before I respond any further.
                          I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Carson, since you're from the Bay Area, maybe you recognize Hastings College of the Law, my Alma Mater. I got an A in contracts, taught by the guy who wrote Corbin on Contracts, so you can stop patronizing me.

                            This isn't just contract law, it's labor law too. And before you tell people to stand up for their rights over little things, why don't you talk to some of my unemployed and homeless friends about what taking a stand can do. They're former real estate appraisers who, like me, stood up against the fraudulent mortgage brokers, banks and realittors when they wanted us to participate in their little schemes, and we got blacklisted and put out of work. NOW, years later, the FBI is interested in our evidence, but that doesn't help.

                            Then we'll talk about which hill the OP should die on.
                            I am not an attorney, and don't play one on TV. Any information given is a description only and should be verified by your attorney.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alice Dodd View Post
                              Carson, since you're from the Bay Area, maybe you recognize Hastings College of the Law, my Alma Mater. I got an A in contracts, taught by the guy who wrote Corbin on Contracts, so you can stop patronizing me.

                              This isn't just contract law, it's labor law too. And before you tell people to stand up for their rights over little things, why don't you talk to some of my unemployed and homeless friends about what taking a stand can do. They're former real estate appraisers who, like me, stood up against the fraudulent mortgage brokers, banks and realittors when they wanted us to participate in their little schemes, and we got blacklisted and put out of work. NOW, years later, the FBI is interested in our evidence, but that doesn't help.

                              Then we'll talk about which hill the OP should die on.
                              Alice, listen I don't intend to argue endlessly on this. But I'm curious to know how labor law would preclude holiday from being part of a contract. You say you aced contracts law school; I think you should agree with then, when I say the terms of a contract with consideration cannot be modified once one party has performed. If I go into a restaurant tomorrow and order a meal out of the menu for $12.99, can I only pay them $10 and justify it by saying "menus aren't contracts"? The answer is an unequivocal "NO." Likewise, they can't demand I pay $15 dollars for it. $12.99 was the offer for the meal, I accepted it, and the consideration was them preparing the meal for me. If I'm wrong, please correct me! I'm gonna tell my landlord and lien holder on my car to go to hell, I'm not paying what I agreed to! J/K

                              Listen Alice, maybe I seem like a jerk; hell, maybe I am a jerk, but you yourself challenged me in a manner which appeared to be condescending, and I responded. You reap what you sow, so you needn't get upset with me. I don't want to make enemies with you, so I will end it here. Hope there is no hard feelings.
                              "The most patriotic people in America are the working class" - Cecil Roberts - President UMWA

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