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I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.

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  • I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.

    During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've
    held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness.
    But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest:

    There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light.
    There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a
    large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything
    to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the
    AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by
    the church for distributing condoms.

    I, personally, didn't respect the man's views. I didn't know the *man*, so
    I can't say I feel one way about him, or the other. But, when people say
    what a great advocate for the poor he was, I can't help but think that the
    one act that he could have done to assist them, he refused to do.

    Sheila



  • #2
    I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.

    "WhansaMi" <[email protected]m> wrote in message
    news:%[email protected]
    During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light.
    I'm catholic, but I don't see him in any light at all. The pope means as
    much to me as, say, any national leader. Which means I don't give him much
    thought.


    Comment


    • #3
      I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.

      "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
      news:%[email protected]
      During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light.
      I'm catholic, but I don't see him in any light at all. The pope means as
      much to me as, say, any national leader. Which means I don't give him much
      thought.


      Comment


      • #4
        I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.



        WhansaMi wrote:

        <snip>

        Well, Sheila, no, you didn't *have* to say it.

        Tracey

        Comment


        • #5
          I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.



          WhansaMi wrote:

          <snip>

          Well, Sheila, no, you didn't *have* to say it.

          Tracey

          Comment


          • #6
            I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


            "Tracey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected]
            WhansaMi wrote: <snip> Well, Sheila, no, you didn't *have* to say it. Tracey
            I guess "have to" is one of those amorphous terms like "need". In this
            case, I use it in the sense of "feel compelled to", which is
            Mirriam-Webster's 13th definition.

            Sheila


            Comment


            • #7
              I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


              "Tracey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected]
              WhansaMi wrote: <snip> Well, Sheila, no, you didn't *have* to say it. Tracey
              I guess "have to" is one of those amorphous terms like "need". In this
              case, I use it in the sense of "feel compelled to", which is
              Mirriam-Webster's 13th definition.

              Sheila


              Comment


              • #8
                I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


                WhansaMi wrote:
                During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms.
                I am all with you there. But I see him as a multidimensional man,
                leader, and politician. He did some good things in his time, and I don't
                like to dismiss them because of the things that I, too, didn't like him for!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


                  WhansaMi wrote:
                  During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms.
                  I am all with you there. But I see him as a multidimensional man,
                  leader, and politician. He did some good things in his time, and I don't
                  like to dismiss them because of the things that I, too, didn't like him for!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.

                    WhansaMi wrote:
                    There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms.
                    And don't forget the money the hierarchy is
                    sitting on top of that could have actually
                    been used to address some of these issues.

                    No one knows for certain even the *magnitude*
                    of money the church is sitting on... and
                    this doesn't even count the art work stored
                    away... much less the real estate owned by
                    the church around the world.

                    It reminds me a lot of the announced and
                    laudatory accomplishments of Ronald Reagan...
                    (shakes head) I don't recall him having even
                    influence in more than maybe 10% of what he
                    got credit for.

                    The reality is that hagiography is with us
                    and it's a political mechanism that ignores
                    reality as best it can.

                    --
                    Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
                    Those people most incapable (or unwilling) to see themselves as being
                    sent to Hell are those most likely to become permanent residents. - me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.

                      WhansaMi wrote:
                      There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms.
                      And don't forget the money the hierarchy is
                      sitting on top of that could have actually
                      been used to address some of these issues.

                      No one knows for certain even the *magnitude*
                      of money the church is sitting on... and
                      this doesn't even count the art work stored
                      away... much less the real estate owned by
                      the church around the world.

                      It reminds me a lot of the announced and
                      laudatory accomplishments of Ronald Reagan...
                      (shakes head) I don't recall him having even
                      influence in more than maybe 10% of what he
                      got credit for.

                      The reality is that hagiography is with us
                      and it's a political mechanism that ignores
                      reality as best it can.

                      --
                      Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
                      Those people most incapable (or unwilling) to see themselves as being
                      sent to Hell are those most likely to become permanent residents. - me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


                        "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                        news:%[email protected]
                        During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms. I, personally, didn't respect the man's views. I didn't know the *man*, so I can't say I feel one way about him, or the other. But, when people say what a great advocate for the poor he was, I can't help but think that the one act that he could have done to assist them, he refused to do. Sheila
                        I agree, Sheila. But I go much further.

                        Consider this; a report appeared about two weeks before his death, in
                        response to the Schiavo case, that he made the statement to the effect that
                        life should be sustained until the end. He said that feeding tubes were not
                        "unnatural means" of supporting life.

                        He elected (or someone else did) to not be taken to the hospital during his
                        last few days even though he was in critical condition. He ( or someone
                        else) did not want to be in a hospital room with life support equipment so
                        he remained in the papal apartment (where there is no life support
                        equipment).

                        If this is not "do as I say and not as I do" then I don't know what is.

                        Another thing. It has been reported that he wanted his personal paper
                        burned after his death. I just wonder why. Is there something there that
                        could be embarrassing to the church?

                        He was just a man at the head of a very wealthy and powerful nation.

                        I think Bush made a grave mistake in having flags fly at half mast for him
                        in this country. Thomas Jefferson rolled over in his grave on that one.

                        rg


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


                          "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                          news:%[email protected]
                          During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms. I, personally, didn't respect the man's views. I didn't know the *man*, so I can't say I feel one way about him, or the other. But, when people say what a great advocate for the poor he was, I can't help but think that the one act that he could have done to assist them, he refused to do. Sheila
                          I agree, Sheila. But I go much further.

                          Consider this; a report appeared about two weeks before his death, in
                          response to the Schiavo case, that he made the statement to the effect that
                          life should be sustained until the end. He said that feeding tubes were not
                          "unnatural means" of supporting life.

                          He elected (or someone else did) to not be taken to the hospital during his
                          last few days even though he was in critical condition. He ( or someone
                          else) did not want to be in a hospital room with life support equipment so
                          he remained in the papal apartment (where there is no life support
                          equipment).

                          If this is not "do as I say and not as I do" then I don't know what is.

                          Another thing. It has been reported that he wanted his personal paper
                          burned after his death. I just wonder why. Is there something there that
                          could be embarrassing to the church?

                          He was just a man at the head of a very wealthy and powerful nation.

                          I think Bush made a grave mistake in having flags fly at half mast for him
                          in this country. Thomas Jefferson rolled over in his grave on that one.

                          rg


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


                            "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:%[email protected]
                            During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms. I, personally, didn't respect the man's views. I didn't know the *man*, so I can't say I feel one way about him, or the other. But, when people say what a great advocate for the poor he was, I can't help but think that the one act that he could have done to assist them, he refused to do. Sheila
                            John 12:8

                            12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus
                            was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

                            12:2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of
                            them that sat at the table with him.

                            12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and
                            anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house
                            was filled with the odour of the ointment.

                            12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which
                            should betray him,

                            12:5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to
                            the poor?

                            12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a
                            thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

                            12:7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she
                            kept this.

                            12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have to say it. And, yes, I'm donning the flame-proof suit.


                              "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                              news:%[email protected]
                              During this week, as the world watched the pope be mourned and buried, I've held my tongue through all the accolades and proclamations of greatness. But, I'm just going to say it, to get it off my chest: There are those of us who do not see the pope in that favorable light. There are those of us who look at children starving in poor countries with a large Roman Catholic presence, and wonder why the pope didn't say anything to allow contraceptives to be used. There are those of us who look at the AIDS/HIV epidemic is Uganda, and wonder how bishops are being sanctioned by the church for distributing condoms. I, personally, didn't respect the man's views. I didn't know the *man*, so I can't say I feel one way about him, or the other. But, when people say what a great advocate for the poor he was, I can't help but think that the one act that he could have done to assist them, he refused to do. Sheila
                              John 12:8

                              12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus
                              was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

                              12:2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of
                              them that sat at the table with him.

                              12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and
                              anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house
                              was filled with the odour of the ointment.

                              12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which
                              should betray him,

                              12:5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to
                              the poor?

                              12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a
                              thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

                              12:7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she
                              kept this.

                              12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.


                              Comment

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