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  • #46
    Ya....But....

    Caren wrote:
    "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<%[email protected]> ...
    "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
    This group has taken on several personas over the years. The atmosphere in here has ebbed and flowed. 5,6, maybe 7 years ago, it was a place where many of became friends and formed two other groups as a result. Several of us met in person, some of us have exchanged Christmas gifts, had internet "grab bags" and truly bonded.
    I'm glad this group isn't like that anymore. It was still like that
    somewhat
    when I first came around (99), and it was annoying sometimes. I'd get
    into a
    debate with one person, and four others would prettymuch jump down your throat because you were arguing with their "friend". I've never been fond of "clique" groups. I'm a regular of this group (amongst several other online communities under a different name), but
    I'm
    no more special than any newbie. Yea, some people "know" me and know my style, and that can be an advantage (like if someone new says to me "you just hate children" most regulars could say "no, that's not correct").
    But I
    really didn't like the cliqui-ness that was here years ago. It made
    anyone
    with an opposing viewpoint feel very unwelcome. I'm glad it's gone. That being said, I do really like some of the people on here, and would
    not
    mind meeting them if the situation arose. I'd also throw an ASM party if
    I
    won the lottery But cliqui-ness... no, never liked that.
    Today I think that the group has become more of a place where strong minded people with strong wills exchange their views rather than offer advice.
    I don't see it that way. Some good pieces of advice come from strong
    wills
    and viewpoints. I'm not saying that no one here offers advice, in fact some
    advice in here in my opinion is darned good advice (especially for free!) However, I find that there are more stubborn and close minded folks than I have met in the past. I think that stubbornness prevents friendships from being formed, hence the atmosphere of this group being a kind of a hang out and let it all hang out. I absolutely do not feel safe enough in this group to let it all hang out due to much judgmentalism, I told you so's and my way or the highway type of thinking.
    Well, you may not get the hug you want, but I'll bet you get some good advice. Trouble is, the good advice may not be what you want to hear. JWB I always appreciate good advice. However having grown up with being spoken to as if I was a peice of garbage, to me how advice is presented is as important as the advice that is presented. Just like when I look at studies and who funded the study, I look at advice and who offered the advice. There are many in here who I do respect. I don't need hugs in here- I do appreciate respect though.
    I like debating with you Caren, at least on the ones you respond to. :-)


    Comment


    • #47
      Ya....But....

      Caren wrote:
      "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<%[email protected]> ...
      "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
      This group has taken on several personas over the years. The atmosphere in here has ebbed and flowed. 5,6, maybe 7 years ago, it was a place where many of became friends and formed two other groups as a result. Several of us met in person, some of us have exchanged Christmas gifts, had internet "grab bags" and truly bonded.
      I'm glad this group isn't like that anymore. It was still like that
      somewhat
      when I first came around (99), and it was annoying sometimes. I'd get
      into a
      debate with one person, and four others would prettymuch jump down your throat because you were arguing with their "friend". I've never been fond of "clique" groups. I'm a regular of this group (amongst several other online communities under a different name), but
      I'm
      no more special than any newbie. Yea, some people "know" me and know my style, and that can be an advantage (like if someone new says to me "you just hate children" most regulars could say "no, that's not correct").
      But I
      really didn't like the cliqui-ness that was here years ago. It made
      anyone
      with an opposing viewpoint feel very unwelcome. I'm glad it's gone. That being said, I do really like some of the people on here, and would
      not
      mind meeting them if the situation arose. I'd also throw an ASM party if
      I
      won the lottery But cliqui-ness... no, never liked that.
      Today I think that the group has become more of a place where strong minded people with strong wills exchange their views rather than offer advice.
      I don't see it that way. Some good pieces of advice come from strong
      wills
      and viewpoints. I'm not saying that no one here offers advice, in fact some
      advice in here in my opinion is darned good advice (especially for free!) However, I find that there are more stubborn and close minded folks than I have met in the past. I think that stubbornness prevents friendships from being formed, hence the atmosphere of this group being a kind of a hang out and let it all hang out. I absolutely do not feel safe enough in this group to let it all hang out due to much judgmentalism, I told you so's and my way or the highway type of thinking.
      Well, you may not get the hug you want, but I'll bet you get some good advice. Trouble is, the good advice may not be what you want to hear. JWB I always appreciate good advice. However having grown up with being spoken to as if I was a peice of garbage, to me how advice is presented is as important as the advice that is presented. Just like when I look at studies and who funded the study, I look at advice and who offered the advice. There are many in here who I do respect. I don't need hugs in here- I do appreciate respect though.
      I like debating with you Caren, at least on the ones you respond to. :-)


      Comment


      • #48
        Ya....But....

        Everyboysmomma wrote:
        I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting a few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but".
        Which negates anything you've said.

        He went on to explain
        that whenever someone says these words, it means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue on the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same advice. For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have to come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
        You gotta reach your personal rock bottom before it occurs to
        you that there's another way.

        Problem is, the deeper you get, the harder it is to extricate
        yourself.

        Momma, to me your point is seminal.

        You may think I'm missing the point, but...
        ever notice how we switch sides to align ourselves with
        whoever we identify with at the time? It's all me. Me. Me.
        Doesn't matter how I stick out, as long as I stick out.

        And I see a slightly different but related idea in
        these words (yes I know I keep posting the
        same quotes):

        "Addictions are desperate strategies by which
        we attempt to avoid the unimaginable terror of
        non-existence. ~ John Firman, 'The Primal Wound')

        - Michaela

        --

        "Most People are more comfortable with old problems
        than with new solutions."


        Comment


        • #49
          Ya....But....

          Everyboysmomma wrote:
          I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting a few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but".
          Which negates anything you've said.

          He went on to explain
          that whenever someone says these words, it means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue on the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same advice. For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have to come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
          You gotta reach your personal rock bottom before it occurs to
          you that there's another way.

          Problem is, the deeper you get, the harder it is to extricate
          yourself.

          Momma, to me your point is seminal.

          You may think I'm missing the point, but...
          ever notice how we switch sides to align ourselves with
          whoever we identify with at the time? It's all me. Me. Me.
          Doesn't matter how I stick out, as long as I stick out.

          And I see a slightly different but related idea in
          these words (yes I know I keep posting the
          same quotes):

          "Addictions are desperate strategies by which
          we attempt to avoid the unimaginable terror of
          non-existence. ~ John Firman, 'The Primal Wound')

          - Michaela

          --

          "Most People are more comfortable with old problems
          than with new solutions."


          Comment

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