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  • #16
    Ya....But....

    "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
    I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting a few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words, it means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue on the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same advice. For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have to come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire.
    Absolutely. This can be one of those "Games People Play." You can spot
    when it's purely a game (versus stubborn self-denial) when people run
    out of suggestions, and the OP reacts with what seems almost to be
    glee (Ted is known to do this quite often).

    The payoff is not just attention, but it's the satisfaction of
    stumping everyone. For Ted there's also an element of "I'm so special"
    going on: "my problems are so unique and difficult, none of you can
    figure out a solution!"

    For many people, this game is merely a pasttime, a way of dealing with
    boredom. I've pointed this out frequently to Ted. I really believe
    he's thoroughly bored with his life, and that's the root cause of his
    troubles.

    jen

    Comment


    • #17
      Ya....But....

      "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
      I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting a few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words, it means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue on the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same advice. For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have to come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire.
      Absolutely. This can be one of those "Games People Play." You can spot
      when it's purely a game (versus stubborn self-denial) when people run
      out of suggestions, and the OP reacts with what seems almost to be
      glee (Ted is known to do this quite often).

      The payoff is not just attention, but it's the satisfaction of
      stumping everyone. For Ted there's also an element of "I'm so special"
      going on: "my problems are so unique and difficult, none of you can
      figure out a solution!"

      For many people, this game is merely a pasttime, a way of dealing with
      boredom. I've pointed this out frequently to Ted. I really believe
      he's thoroughly bored with his life, and that's the root cause of his
      troubles.

      jen

      Comment


      • #18
        Ya....But....

        shinypenny wrote:
        "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
        I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
        a
        few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance
        professor.
        He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the
        term
        "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
        it
        means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
        on
        the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
        advice.
        For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least.
        Then
        comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are
        blue
        in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is
        enlightened
        enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on
        crisis.
        They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
        to
        come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which
        is
        what they really desire. Absolutely. This can be one of those "Games People Play." You can spot when it's purely a game (versus stubborn self-denial) when people run out of suggestions, and the OP reacts with what seems almost to be glee (Ted is known to do this quite often). The payoff is not just attention, but it's the satisfaction of stumping everyone. For Ted there's also an element of "I'm so special" going on: "my problems are so unique and difficult, none of you can figure out a solution!" For many people, this game is merely a pasttime, a way of dealing with boredom. I've pointed this out frequently to Ted. I really believe he's thoroughly bored with his life, and that's the root cause of his troubles. jen
        Then the solution is for him to change his life, n'est pas?


        Comment


        • #19
          Ya....But....

          shinypenny wrote:
          "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
          I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
          a
          few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance
          professor.
          He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the
          term
          "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
          it
          means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
          on
          the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
          advice.
          For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least.
          Then
          comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are
          blue
          in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is
          enlightened
          enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on
          crisis.
          They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
          to
          come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which
          is
          what they really desire. Absolutely. This can be one of those "Games People Play." You can spot when it's purely a game (versus stubborn self-denial) when people run out of suggestions, and the OP reacts with what seems almost to be glee (Ted is known to do this quite often). The payoff is not just attention, but it's the satisfaction of stumping everyone. For Ted there's also an element of "I'm so special" going on: "my problems are so unique and difficult, none of you can figure out a solution!" For many people, this game is merely a pasttime, a way of dealing with boredom. I've pointed this out frequently to Ted. I really believe he's thoroughly bored with his life, and that's the root cause of his troubles. jen
          Then the solution is for him to change his life, n'est pas?


          Comment


          • #20
            Ya....But....


            "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected] .
            I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
            a
            few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
            it
            means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
            on
            the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
            advice.
            For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
            to
            come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
            Ok..so what you are all saying is that it is not just me then......


            Comment


            • #21
              Ya....But....


              "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected] .
              I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
              a
              few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
              it
              means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
              on
              the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
              advice.
              For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
              to
              come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
              Ok..so what you are all saying is that it is not just me then......


              Comment


              • #22
                Ya....But....


                "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                news:[email protected] .
                I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
                a
                few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
                it
                means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
                on
                the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
                advice.
                For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
                to
                come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
                HALLELUIAH, AMEN SISTER, amen )))


                Comment


                • #23
                  Ya....But....


                  "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                  news:[email protected] .
                  I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
                  a
                  few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
                  it
                  means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
                  on
                  the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
                  advice.
                  For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
                  to
                  come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
                  HALLELUIAH, AMEN SISTER, amen )))


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Ya....But....

                    "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
                    I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting a few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words, it means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue on the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same advice. For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have to come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
                    This group has taken on several personas over the years. The
                    atmosphere in here has ebbed and flowed. 5,6, maybe 7 years ago, it
                    was a place where many of became friends and formed two other groups
                    as a result. Several of us met in person, some of us have exchanged
                    Christmas gifts, had internet "grab bags" and truly bonded.

                    Today I think that the group has become more of a place where strong
                    minded people with strong wills exchange their views rather than offer
                    advice. I'm not saying that no one here offers advice, in fact some
                    advice in here in my opinion is darned good advice (especially for
                    free!) However, I find that there are more stubborn and close minded
                    folks than I have met in the past. I think that stubbornness prevents
                    friendships from being formed, hence the atmosphere of this group
                    being a kind of a hang out and let it all hang out. I absolutely do
                    not feel safe enough in this group to let it all hang out due to much
                    judgmentalism, I told you so's and my way or the highway type of
                    thinking.

                    As far as the ya but's: I don't feel comfortable coming up with why
                    others say it, but I find myself saying it when I don't feel
                    understood. I don't know if I agree with your synopsis about thriving
                    on drama or crisis I think you said.

                    When I try to explain to my husband how I feel and he responds with a
                    solution, I'll try to say, yeah, that is a good solution, but I wasn't
                    looking for a solution, I was trying to tell you how I felt. This
                    conversation could escalate, it could go well or I could just walk
                    away feeling more frustrated. We have all three outomces regularly
                    :-) I'm a talker and my husband is a solver of my talking. So...I
                    often find the ya but to be more about explaining further so that a
                    solution, an analysis or an interpretation doesn't occur.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Ya....But....

                      "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
                      I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting a few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance professor. He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the term "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words, it means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue on the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same advice. For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least. Then comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are blue in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is enlightened enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on crisis. They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have to come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which is what they really desire. Comments? Momma
                      This group has taken on several personas over the years. The
                      atmosphere in here has ebbed and flowed. 5,6, maybe 7 years ago, it
                      was a place where many of became friends and formed two other groups
                      as a result. Several of us met in person, some of us have exchanged
                      Christmas gifts, had internet "grab bags" and truly bonded.

                      Today I think that the group has become more of a place where strong
                      minded people with strong wills exchange their views rather than offer
                      advice. I'm not saying that no one here offers advice, in fact some
                      advice in here in my opinion is darned good advice (especially for
                      free!) However, I find that there are more stubborn and close minded
                      folks than I have met in the past. I think that stubbornness prevents
                      friendships from being formed, hence the atmosphere of this group
                      being a kind of a hang out and let it all hang out. I absolutely do
                      not feel safe enough in this group to let it all hang out due to much
                      judgmentalism, I told you so's and my way or the highway type of
                      thinking.

                      As far as the ya but's: I don't feel comfortable coming up with why
                      others say it, but I find myself saying it when I don't feel
                      understood. I don't know if I agree with your synopsis about thriving
                      on drama or crisis I think you said.

                      When I try to explain to my husband how I feel and he responds with a
                      solution, I'll try to say, yeah, that is a good solution, but I wasn't
                      looking for a solution, I was trying to tell you how I felt. This
                      conversation could escalate, it could go well or I could just walk
                      away feeling more frustrated. We have all three outomces regularly
                      :-) I'm a talker and my husband is a solver of my talking. So...I
                      often find the ya but to be more about explaining further so that a
                      solution, an analysis or an interpretation doesn't occur.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ya....But....

                        "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                        news:[email protected] om...

                        This group has taken on several personas over the years. The atmosphere in here has ebbed and flowed. 5,6, maybe 7 years ago, it was a place where many of became friends and formed two other groups as a result. Several of us met in person, some of us have exchanged Christmas gifts, had internet "grab bags" and truly bonded.
                        I'm glad this group isn't like that anymore. It was still like that somewhat
                        when I first came around (99), and it was annoying sometimes. I'd get into a
                        debate with one person, and four others would prettymuch jump down your
                        throat because you were arguing with their "friend".

                        I've never been fond of "clique" groups. I'm a regular of this group
                        (amongst several other online communities under a different name), but I'm
                        no more special than any newbie. Yea, some people "know" me and know my
                        style, and that can be an advantage (like if someone new says to me "you
                        just hate children" most regulars could say "no, that's not correct"). But I
                        really didn't like the cliqui-ness that was here years ago. It made anyone
                        with an opposing viewpoint feel very unwelcome. I'm glad it's gone.

                        That being said, I do really like some of the people on here, and would not
                        mind meeting them if the situation arose. I'd also throw an ASM party if I
                        won the lottery But cliqui-ness... no, never liked that.

                        Today I think that the group has become more of a place where strong minded people with strong wills exchange their views rather than offer advice.

                        I don't see it that way. Some good pieces of advice come from strong wills
                        and viewpoints.



                        I'm not saying that no one here offers advice, in fact some
                        advice in here in my opinion is darned good advice (especially for free!) However, I find that there are more stubborn and close minded folks than I have met in the past. I think that stubbornness prevents friendships from being formed, hence the atmosphere of this group being a kind of a hang out and let it all hang out. I absolutely do not feel safe enough in this group to let it all hang out due to much judgmentalism, I told you so's and my way or the highway type of thinking.
                        Well, you may not get the hug you want, but I'll bet you get some good
                        advice. Trouble is, the good advice may not be what you want to hear.

                        JWB


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ya....But....

                          "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                          news:[email protected] om...

                          This group has taken on several personas over the years. The atmosphere in here has ebbed and flowed. 5,6, maybe 7 years ago, it was a place where many of became friends and formed two other groups as a result. Several of us met in person, some of us have exchanged Christmas gifts, had internet "grab bags" and truly bonded.
                          I'm glad this group isn't like that anymore. It was still like that somewhat
                          when I first came around (99), and it was annoying sometimes. I'd get into a
                          debate with one person, and four others would prettymuch jump down your
                          throat because you were arguing with their "friend".

                          I've never been fond of "clique" groups. I'm a regular of this group
                          (amongst several other online communities under a different name), but I'm
                          no more special than any newbie. Yea, some people "know" me and know my
                          style, and that can be an advantage (like if someone new says to me "you
                          just hate children" most regulars could say "no, that's not correct"). But I
                          really didn't like the cliqui-ness that was here years ago. It made anyone
                          with an opposing viewpoint feel very unwelcome. I'm glad it's gone.

                          That being said, I do really like some of the people on here, and would not
                          mind meeting them if the situation arose. I'd also throw an ASM party if I
                          won the lottery But cliqui-ness... no, never liked that.

                          Today I think that the group has become more of a place where strong minded people with strong wills exchange their views rather than offer advice.

                          I don't see it that way. Some good pieces of advice come from strong wills
                          and viewpoints.



                          I'm not saying that no one here offers advice, in fact some
                          advice in here in my opinion is darned good advice (especially for free!) However, I find that there are more stubborn and close minded folks than I have met in the past. I think that stubbornness prevents friendships from being formed, hence the atmosphere of this group being a kind of a hang out and let it all hang out. I absolutely do not feel safe enough in this group to let it all hang out due to much judgmentalism, I told you so's and my way or the highway type of thinking.
                          Well, you may not get the hug you want, but I'll bet you get some good
                          advice. Trouble is, the good advice may not be what you want to hear.

                          JWB


                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Ya....But....


                            "Emma Anne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:1gi1moc.8qqmbb1yvxarlN%[email protected]
                            Everyboysmomma <[email protected]> wrote:
                            I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting
                            posting a
                            few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance
                            professor.
                            He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the
                            term
                            "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these
                            words, it
                            means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to
                            continue on
                            the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. Here we call it refusing to take the tack out of your butt. :-) However, I do think that sometimes people do the "ya but" thing for a while in the process of getting ready to change.
                            That's my impression, too. People don't often make immediate changes to
                            their thinking or behaviour. It happens in small increments. I see a lot of
                            Yah Butting coming from people who haven't quite reached the place where
                            what is being said to them can be truly understood. There's too much else
                            that has to be understood first.


                            I have worked with
                            domestic violence victims for a long time (and they are the "ya but" *queens*) and some do eventually change. The key is to put in your two cents when it makes sense and not get attached to the outcome. If and when they are ready, the stuff you and others have been telling them will be available to them. Other, of course, have no intention of ever changing and just like the "ya but" game. When it become clear to me that someone is doing this, I decline to play any further.
                            Ditto. Except I usually get annoyed and say something rude first.....


                            Tai



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Ya....But....


                              "Emma Anne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                              news:1gi1moc.8qqmbb1yvxarlN%[email protected]
                              Everyboysmomma <[email protected]> wrote:
                              I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting
                              posting a
                              few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance
                              professor.
                              He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the
                              term
                              "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these
                              words, it
                              means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to
                              continue on
                              the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. Here we call it refusing to take the tack out of your butt. :-) However, I do think that sometimes people do the "ya but" thing for a while in the process of getting ready to change.
                              That's my impression, too. People don't often make immediate changes to
                              their thinking or behaviour. It happens in small increments. I see a lot of
                              Yah Butting coming from people who haven't quite reached the place where
                              what is being said to them can be truly understood. There's too much else
                              that has to be understood first.


                              I have worked with
                              domestic violence victims for a long time (and they are the "ya but" *queens*) and some do eventually change. The key is to put in your two cents when it makes sense and not get attached to the outcome. If and when they are ready, the stuff you and others have been telling them will be available to them. Other, of course, have no intention of ever changing and just like the "ya but" game. When it become clear to me that someone is doing this, I decline to play any further.
                              Ditto. Except I usually get annoyed and say something rude first.....


                              Tai



                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Ya....But....

                                "Bill in Co." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] hlink.net>...
                                shinypenny wrote:
                                "Everyboysmomma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
                                I have been reading this newsgroup for quite a while and starting posting
                                a
                                few weeks ago. I am reminded of my college Corporation Finance
                                professor.
                                He said, many years ago, that the biggest roadblock to success is the
                                term
                                "Ya, but". He went on to explain that whenever someone says these words,
                                it
                                means that they have heard what you had to say, but they are going to totally disregard your words, your expertise, your experience to continue
                                on
                                the same path that had them asking for advice in the first place. In so many posts here, I have seen many people repeat the exact same
                                advice.
                                For the most part, when many people respond in the same way, you might be able to ascertain that the advice is worth a consideration at least.
                                Then
                                comes the "Ya But". Then the posters go on to explain until they are
                                blue
                                in the face why what they are saying is at very minimum, reasonable. But the "Ya But-ers" continue with the notion that no one here is
                                enlightened
                                enough to understand the depth of their problem. I can only imagine that the same scenario happens at therapy, or when they are talking with their SO's. So, my quick, uneducated reaction is this. These people thrive on
                                crisis.
                                They don't *want* a solution to their problems because it makes them have
                                to
                                come up with new ones. Crisis keeps them the center of attention which
                                is
                                what they really desire. Absolutely. This can be one of those "Games People Play." You can spot when it's purely a game (versus stubborn self-denial) when people run out of suggestions, and the OP reacts with what seems almost to be glee (Ted is known to do this quite often). The payoff is not just attention, but it's the satisfaction of stumping everyone. For Ted there's also an element of "I'm so special" going on: "my problems are so unique and difficult, none of you can figure out a solution!" For many people, this game is merely a pasttime, a way of dealing with boredom. I've pointed this out frequently to Ted. I really believe he's thoroughly bored with his life, and that's the root cause of his troubles. jen
                                Then the solution is for him to change his life, n'est pas?
                                Que vous incite nous penser parle de Ted ? Je pensais vous !

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