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  • A few quick comments

    I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel
    I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to
    some of what I've read.

    First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the
    program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the
    idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony
    is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind
    of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was
    disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or
    might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth
    commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about --
    I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?)

    Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you
    mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that
    "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of
    what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in
    someone else, whether accurately or not.)

    Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I
    don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly
    annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On
    the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read
    it much, much less than previously.

    Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe
    at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying
    attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third
    row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the
    musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in
    a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music --
    not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of
    the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that
    I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the
    concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who
    are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get
    into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest.

    G'night.

    Ted

  • #2
    A few quick comments

    Seeker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<300720042325387864%[email protected] com>...
    Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.)
    Gotcha.
    Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously.
    Since you've been going every week this summer, it could be that
    something just happened to be weighing on her mind the last time.

    Instead of jumping to the conclusion she's not experiencing the
    concert in the same way as you and being annoyed by that, next time
    try shifting your attitude away from the personal. In the
    intermission, say something like, "Honey, is everything okay? You
    strike me as preoccupied tonight."

    Who knows - maybe if you were tuned into her and not just the
    symphony, maybe she'd share with you what's on her mind and then you
    could have an emotional experience with *her* and not the orchestra.

    jen

    Comment


    • #3
      A few quick comments

      Seeker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<300720042325387864%[email protected] com>...
      Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.)
      Gotcha.
      Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously.
      Since you've been going every week this summer, it could be that
      something just happened to be weighing on her mind the last time.

      Instead of jumping to the conclusion she's not experiencing the
      concert in the same way as you and being annoyed by that, next time
      try shifting your attitude away from the personal. In the
      intermission, say something like, "Honey, is everything okay? You
      strike me as preoccupied tonight."

      Who knows - maybe if you were tuned into her and not just the
      symphony, maybe she'd share with you what's on her mind and then you
      could have an emotional experience with *her* and not the orchestra.

      jen

      Comment


      • #4
        A few quick comments

        In article <[email protected] >,
        shinypenny <[email protected]> wrote:
        Since you've been going every week this summer, it could be that something just happened to be weighing on her mind the last time. Instead of jumping to the conclusion she's not experiencing the concert in the same way as you and being annoyed by that, next time try shifting your attitude away from the personal. In the intermission, say something like, "Honey, is everything okay? You strike me as preoccupied tonight."
        It didn't strike me as being pre-occupied (especially) -- afterall,
        when she watches TV she'll do a crossword puzzle at the same time. I
        did ask afterwards if she enjoyed the concert and she said, yes, why
        did you ask? But after the last couple of times our love-making
        fizzled she did acknowlege being preoccupied by three things: the
        marriage counselling ("I've been this way for two years"), the fact
        that we have house guests coming mid-September and a lot of work to do
        to get ready, and, our probably dying elderly cat (he's eating a little
        better, on some medication & been given fluids, but at all in very good
        shape.)
        Who knows - maybe if you were tuned into her and not just the symphony, maybe she'd share with you what's on her mind and then you could have an emotional experience with *her* and not the orchestra.
        Understood (sort of.)

        Ted

        Comment


        • #5
          A few quick comments

          In article <[email protected] >,
          shinypenny <[email protected]> wrote:
          Since you've been going every week this summer, it could be that something just happened to be weighing on her mind the last time. Instead of jumping to the conclusion she's not experiencing the concert in the same way as you and being annoyed by that, next time try shifting your attitude away from the personal. In the intermission, say something like, "Honey, is everything okay? You strike me as preoccupied tonight."
          It didn't strike me as being pre-occupied (especially) -- afterall,
          when she watches TV she'll do a crossword puzzle at the same time. I
          did ask afterwards if she enjoyed the concert and she said, yes, why
          did you ask? But after the last couple of times our love-making
          fizzled she did acknowlege being preoccupied by three things: the
          marriage counselling ("I've been this way for two years"), the fact
          that we have house guests coming mid-September and a lot of work to do
          to get ready, and, our probably dying elderly cat (he's eating a little
          better, on some medication & been given fluids, but at all in very good
          shape.)
          Who knows - maybe if you were tuned into her and not just the symphony, maybe she'd share with you what's on her mind and then you could have an emotional experience with *her* and not the orchestra.
          Understood (sort of.)

          Ted

          Comment


          • #6
            A few quick comments


            "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:300720042325387864%[email protected] om...
            I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to some of what I've read. First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about -- I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?) Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.) Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously. Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music -- not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest. G'night. Ted
            I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the answer is
            screaming in my head.
            Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room in
            your idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife to
            respond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen and
            you are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poor
            woman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations)
            We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it or,
            even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about wanting
            the shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you can
            comprehend what that really means.
            This note is not based on this post alone. It is your ongoing theme. You
            want to script the way that everyone around you, and most especially your
            wife, react to things that excite or otherwise employ your emotions. No one
            on earth is ever going to match your every sensation but you.
            You need to get real.
            Momma


            Comment


            • #7
              A few quick comments


              "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:300720042325387864%[email protected] om...
              I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to some of what I've read. First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about -- I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?) Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.) Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously. Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music -- not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest. G'night. Ted
              I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the answer is
              screaming in my head.
              Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room in
              your idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife to
              respond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen and
              you are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poor
              woman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations)
              We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it or,
              even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about wanting
              the shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you can
              comprehend what that really means.
              This note is not based on this post alone. It is your ongoing theme. You
              want to script the way that everyone around you, and most especially your
              wife, react to things that excite or otherwise employ your emotions. No one
              on earth is ever going to match your every sensation but you.
              You need to get real.
              Momma


              Comment


              • #8
                A few quick comments

                Momma wrote:
                I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the answer isscreaming in my head.Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room inyour idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife torespond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen andyou are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poorwoman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations)We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it or,even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about wantingthe shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you cancomprehend what that really means.This note is not based on this post alone. It is your ongoing theme. Youwant to script the way that everyone around you, and most especially yourwife, react to things that excite or otherwise employ your emotions. No oneon earth is ever going to match your every sensation but you.You need to get real.Momma
                My husband told Ted this months ago. Maybe he'll hear it from you, this time,
                though. :-)

                Sheila

                Comment


                • #9
                  A few quick comments

                  Momma wrote:
                  I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the answer isscreaming in my head.Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room inyour idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife torespond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen andyou are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poorwoman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations)We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it or,even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about wantingthe shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you cancomprehend what that really means.This note is not based on this post alone. It is your ongoing theme. Youwant to script the way that everyone around you, and most especially yourwife, react to things that excite or otherwise employ your emotions. No oneon earth is ever going to match your every sensation but you.You need to get real.Momma
                  My husband told Ted this months ago. Maybe he'll hear it from you, this time,
                  though. :-)

                  Sheila

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A few quick comments

                    On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:49:38 GMT, Everyboysmomma
                    <[email protected]> wrote:
                    "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300720042325387864%[email protected] om...
                    I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to some of what I've read. First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about -- I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?) Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.) Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously. Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music -- not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest. G'night. Ted
                    I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the answer is screaming in my head. Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room in your idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife to respond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen and you are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poor woman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations) We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it or, even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about wanting the shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you can comprehend what that really means.
                    Hehehe... My "Ladyhawk" thread was the perfect example of the kind of
                    "shared experinces" my wife and I can have.

                    My wife and I don't like the same kinds of movies. She likes the romantic
                    stories, and I like the manly fighting kinds of movies (swords, guns or
                    bombs). My movies have to have a really high "boom to word" ratio and if
                    that ratio goes into the high positives, it's my kid of movie.

                    As a result, when we go to the movies, one of us is generally aquiescing
                    to see a movie that really isn't interesting for the sake of the other.

                    _Ladyhawk_ was interesting because it was a movie we both enjoyed though .
                    .. . and this is the important part . . . for different reason.

                    My wife liked the romantic story. I'd imagine she though Rutger Hauer was
                    "hunky". She liked the way the hero finally won the girl.

                    I liked the fighting and swordplay. I liked the half naked Michelle
                    Pfieffer. I liked the escape on multiple occasions by "the mouse". I
                    also liked the evil bishop getting his in the end (and by his own hand,
                    Navale was going to leave him to stew in his own juice).

                    But we enjoyed the movie for different reasons. It was a shared
                    experience of enjoying a movie, but I had no expectation of her enjoying
                    it the same way I did. I also picked out the movie and suggested it to
                    her because I understand the kinds of movies she likes, and I saw those
                    aspects in that movie. I was right on target. Is *that* intimacy?

                    -Tony

                    --
                    "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
                    to fertilize your lawn!"
                    Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
                    Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A few quick comments

                      On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:49:38 GMT, Everyboysmomma
                      <[email protected]> wrote:
                      "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300720042325387864%[email protected] om...
                      I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to some of what I've read. First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about -- I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?) Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.) Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously. Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music -- not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest. G'night. Ted
                      I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the answer is screaming in my head. Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room in your idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife to respond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen and you are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poor woman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations) We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it or, even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about wanting the shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you can comprehend what that really means.
                      Hehehe... My "Ladyhawk" thread was the perfect example of the kind of
                      "shared experinces" my wife and I can have.

                      My wife and I don't like the same kinds of movies. She likes the romantic
                      stories, and I like the manly fighting kinds of movies (swords, guns or
                      bombs). My movies have to have a really high "boom to word" ratio and if
                      that ratio goes into the high positives, it's my kid of movie.

                      As a result, when we go to the movies, one of us is generally aquiescing
                      to see a movie that really isn't interesting for the sake of the other.

                      _Ladyhawk_ was interesting because it was a movie we both enjoyed though .
                      .. . and this is the important part . . . for different reason.

                      My wife liked the romantic story. I'd imagine she though Rutger Hauer was
                      "hunky". She liked the way the hero finally won the girl.

                      I liked the fighting and swordplay. I liked the half naked Michelle
                      Pfieffer. I liked the escape on multiple occasions by "the mouse". I
                      also liked the evil bishop getting his in the end (and by his own hand,
                      Navale was going to leave him to stew in his own juice).

                      But we enjoyed the movie for different reasons. It was a shared
                      experience of enjoying a movie, but I had no expectation of her enjoying
                      it the same way I did. I also picked out the movie and suggested it to
                      her because I understand the kinds of movies she likes, and I saw those
                      aspects in that movie. I was right on target. Is *that* intimacy?

                      -Tony

                      --
                      "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
                      to fertilize your lawn!"
                      Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
                      Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A few quick comments


                        "Tony Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                        news:[email protected]
                        On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:49:38 GMT, Everyboysmomma <[email protected]> wrote:
                        "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300720042325387864%[email protected] om...
                        I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to some of what I've read. First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about -- I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?) Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.) Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously. Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music -- not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest. G'night. Ted
                        I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the
                        answer is
                        screaming in my head. Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room
                        in
                        your idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife
                        to
                        respond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen
                        and
                        you are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poor woman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations) We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it
                        or,
                        even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about
                        wanting
                        the shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you can comprehend what that really means. Hehehe... My "Ladyhawk" thread was the perfect example of the kind of "shared experinces" my wife and I can have. My wife and I don't like the same kinds of movies. She likes the romantic stories, and I like the manly fighting kinds of movies (swords, guns or bombs). My movies have to have a really high "boom to word" ratio and if that ratio goes into the high positives, it's my kid of movie. As a result, when we go to the movies, one of us is generally aquiescing to see a movie that really isn't interesting for the sake of the other. _Ladyhawk_ was interesting because it was a movie we both enjoyed though . . . and this is the important part . . . for different reason. My wife liked the romantic story. I'd imagine she though Rutger Hauer was "hunky". She liked the way the hero finally won the girl. I liked the fighting and swordplay. I liked the half naked Michelle Pfieffer. I liked the escape on multiple occasions by "the mouse". I also liked the evil bishop getting his in the end (and by his own hand, Navale was going to leave him to stew in his own juice). But we enjoyed the movie for different reasons. It was a shared experience of enjoying a movie, but I had no expectation of her enjoying it the same way I did. I also picked out the movie and suggested it to her because I understand the kinds of movies she likes, and I saw those aspects in that movie. I was right on target. Is *that* intimacy? -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
                        time
                        to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.
                        Tony, not sure if it is called intimacy but I would call it *realistic
                        expectations*. In a way I am reminded of all the friends I have had who
                        didn't want to take their kids to Disney World until they were "old enough
                        to enjoy it". I always thought of this as meaning "old enough to understand
                        the financial hit we are taking". In my experience when I was there with
                        my 6 month old many many years ago, he was engrossed with all the lights and
                        movement. At 2 he had become a real "people watcher" and there is no better
                        place on earth for that activity. Each person has to be allowed the "right"
                        to experience life on their own terms, and when that just happens to be
                        shared occasionally not only do you get intimacy, but *magic*!
                        Momma


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A few quick comments


                          "Tony Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                          news:[email protected]
                          On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:49:38 GMT, Everyboysmomma <[email protected]> wrote:
                          "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:300720042325387864%[email protected] om...
                          I don't know if I'm going to get back and respond to everything I feel I ought to, but I do want to make a few quick comments in reaction to some of what I've read. First, I realized perhaps why I was annoyed at my wife's reading the program during the concerts. (I don't know where some of you got the idea she "chattered" during them; she didn't.) Going to the symphony is one of the few things we do together where I think we have some kind of a shared emotional experience -- or a hope of one. So it was disappointing to realize that wasn't as true as I'd hoped it was or might be. (Now, why several of you found my reaction something worth commenting on at length is perhaps something for you to think about -- I know why *I* made a big deal about it; why did you?) Second, to Jen, I think what I mean by "integrity" *is* maybe what you mean by authenticity -- being true to yourself. I agree that "authenticity" is probably a better word and it does fit better some of what I react to strongly (especially what I perceive as a lack of it in someone else, whether accurately or not.) Third, tonight's concert was much better than the last several. I don't know if discussing it here helped or not, but I was hardly annoyed at all -- if any -- by her reading the program tonight. On the other hand, for whatever reason, to the extent I noticed, she read it much, much less than previously. Fourth, someone made some comment about there not being much to observe at a concert (or, if there was, doesn't than mean I wasn't paying attention to the music?) As I said -- we sit in the second or third row of the hall. That means we can watch the facial expressions of the musicians and follow their body language. For me, that means that in a little way I can feel what it is like to be performing the music -- not just listening to it. I can rejoice with them, say, when two of the musicians sense they've harmonized just right -- I don't know that I can put it into words, but it adds an immense amount to enjoying the concert to me. There are two or three out of the whole ensemble who are especially inspiring to watch that way -- they just seem to "get into" the music with much more depth than any of the rest. G'night. Ted
                          I am not reading any other comments before answering here, but the
                          answer is
                          screaming in my head. Ted, you want to have a relationship with *yourself*!! There is no room
                          in
                          your idea of relationship for personal expression. You want your wife
                          to
                          respond to all stimuli exactly the way you do. It ain't gonna happen
                          and
                          you are doing nothing but frustrating yourself (not to mention the poor woman who has to try to live up to your unlivable expectations) We all enjoy shared emotional understanding. But trying to contrive it
                          or,
                          even worse, demand it is just unrealistic. You keep talking about
                          wanting
                          the shared experiences of a soulmate when I truly do not believe you can comprehend what that really means. Hehehe... My "Ladyhawk" thread was the perfect example of the kind of "shared experinces" my wife and I can have. My wife and I don't like the same kinds of movies. She likes the romantic stories, and I like the manly fighting kinds of movies (swords, guns or bombs). My movies have to have a really high "boom to word" ratio and if that ratio goes into the high positives, it's my kid of movie. As a result, when we go to the movies, one of us is generally aquiescing to see a movie that really isn't interesting for the sake of the other. _Ladyhawk_ was interesting because it was a movie we both enjoyed though . . . and this is the important part . . . for different reason. My wife liked the romantic story. I'd imagine she though Rutger Hauer was "hunky". She liked the way the hero finally won the girl. I liked the fighting and swordplay. I liked the half naked Michelle Pfieffer. I liked the escape on multiple occasions by "the mouse". I also liked the evil bishop getting his in the end (and by his own hand, Navale was going to leave him to stew in his own juice). But we enjoyed the movie for different reasons. It was a shared experience of enjoying a movie, but I had no expectation of her enjoying it the same way I did. I also picked out the movie and suggested it to her because I understand the kinds of movies she likes, and I saw those aspects in that movie. I was right on target. Is *that* intimacy? -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
                          time
                          to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.
                          Tony, not sure if it is called intimacy but I would call it *realistic
                          expectations*. In a way I am reminded of all the friends I have had who
                          didn't want to take their kids to Disney World until they were "old enough
                          to enjoy it". I always thought of this as meaning "old enough to understand
                          the financial hit we are taking". In my experience when I was there with
                          my 6 month old many many years ago, he was engrossed with all the lights and
                          movement. At 2 he had become a real "people watcher" and there is no better
                          place on earth for that activity. Each person has to be allowed the "right"
                          to experience life on their own terms, and when that just happens to be
                          shared occasionally not only do you get intimacy, but *magic*!
                          Momma


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A few quick comments



                            Tony Miller wrote:
                            But we enjoyed the movie for different reasons. It was a shared experience of enjoying a movie, but I had no expectation of her enjoying it the same way I did. I also picked out the movie and suggested it to her because I understand the kinds of movies she likes, and I saw those aspects in that movie. I was right on target. Is *that* intimacy?
                            It comes closer to my definition of intimacy than Ted's seemingly
                            does.

                            Tracey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A few quick comments



                              Tony Miller wrote:
                              But we enjoyed the movie for different reasons. It was a shared experience of enjoying a movie, but I had no expectation of her enjoying it the same way I did. I also picked out the movie and suggested it to her because I understand the kinds of movies she likes, and I saw those aspects in that movie. I was right on target. Is *that* intimacy?
                              It comes closer to my definition of intimacy than Ted's seemingly
                              does.

                              Tracey

                              Comment

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