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  • Trial separation? Need advice...

    I need a little advice.. hope this is an okay type post.

    My husband (25) and I (26) have been married for 5 years, together for
    7.

    When we first met and started living together, we were both partied
    alot, were generally pretty wild, etc. At 20 I got pregnant with our
    first son and our ultra-religious families gave us the ultimatum "get
    married or put the kid up for adoption" (I was homeless at the time).
    So we got married.

    I settled down, took a job and am still here today. We've also since
    had a second child. My husband, on the other hand, remained wild -
    drinking lots, doing drugs, staying out all hours of the night, not
    calling, not keeping a steady job, just generally not respecting me at
    all - up until we had a VERY brief separation around January of this
    year. He stayed gone maybe 2 months, got "clean" in AA/NA and came
    back home.

    Things since then have been better, relatively speaking. He's been
    clean and sober since I kicked him out, but his temper is ridiculous.
    It all sort of hit home for me the other day when I was told by one of
    my son's teachers that when she asked him what he was drawing a
    picture of he told her, "my mommy crying because my daddy kicked her."
    Of course, when I asked my son about it he said it was "just pretend"
    but he had to get those ideas from somewhere (he's 4).

    I don't know that he's ever seen his Dad push me before, but it's
    happened. And I know we've fought more than we should have in front
    of him. When I tell my husband about this, he says "if I had hit you
    you would have known it!" and that he only pushed me lightly because I
    shouldn't have been nagging him, etc.

    I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being
    miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better
    for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says
    "I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm
    so tired. He says he wants to still try but I remind him I've been
    going at this with effort for four years, while he's only been working
    on it for 6 months. Maybe that's why.

    Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd
    get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the
    fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the
    situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting
    back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been
    calling a marriage.

    Any advice, anybody? Thanks!

  • #2
    Trial separation? Need advice...

    x-no-archive: yes

    Ignoramus5278 wrote:
    [post snipped, changing topic]

    I just noticed that Igor's posts no longer are "no archive".
    Is there any significance to this?
    (I find it convenient that they are in Google,
    when catching up on an old thread there.)
    --
    Tsam

    Comment


    • #3
      Trial separation? Need advice...


      "Manna" <[email protected]> wrote in message
      news:[email protected] om...
      I need a little advice.. hope this is an okay type post. My husband (25) and I (26) have been married for 5 years, together for 7. When we first met and started living together, we were both partied alot, were generally pretty wild, etc. At 20 I got pregnant with our first son and our ultra-religious families gave us the ultimatum "get married or put the kid up for adoption" (I was homeless at the time). So we got married. I settled down, took a job and am still here today. We've also since had a second child. My husband, on the other hand, remained wild - drinking lots, doing drugs, staying out all hours of the night, not calling, not keeping a steady job, just generally not respecting me at all - up until we had a VERY brief separation around January of this year. He stayed gone maybe 2 months, got "clean" in AA/NA and came back home. Things since then have been better, relatively speaking. He's been clean and sober since I kicked him out, but his temper is ridiculous. It all sort of hit home for me the other day when I was told by one of my son's teachers that when she asked him what he was drawing a picture of he told her, "my mommy crying because my daddy kicked her." Of course, when I asked my son about it he said it was "just pretend" but he had to get those ideas from somewhere (he's 4). I don't know that he's ever seen his Dad push me before, but it's happened. And I know we've fought more than we should have in front of him. When I tell my husband about this, he says "if I had hit you you would have known it!" and that he only pushed me lightly because I shouldn't have been nagging him, etc.
      This *sounds like* classic early stages of physical abuse. A person who will
      blame you for his or her physical reaction is out of control. *If* that is
      what is going on here, this kind of thing tends to escalate rather than
      lessening or staying the same level, if not dealt with. What do you mean by
      "push?" It cannot be too great if it makes you cry.
      I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says "I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm so tired. He says he wants to still try but I remind him I've been going at this with effort for four years, while he's only been working on it for 6 months. Maybe that's why. Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been calling a marriage. Any advice, anybody? Thanks!

      You need to decide if you want to work on it or not. A trial separation
      sounds fine if ending the marriage is what you are after. If staying
      together is what you are after, then counseling would be better.

      S


      Comment


      • #4
        Trial separation? Need advice...

        Manna <[email protected]> wrote in article
        <[email protected]>. ..
        I need a little advice.. hope this is an okay type post.
        That's what we're here for :-)
        My husband (25) and I (26) have been married for 5 years, together for 7. When we first met and started living together, we were both partied alot, were generally pretty wild, etc. At 20 I got pregnant with our first son and our ultra-religious families gave us the ultimatum "get married or put the kid up for adoption" (I was homeless at the time). So we got married. I settled down, took a job and am still here today. We've also since had a second child. My husband, on the other hand, remained wild - drinking lots, doing drugs, staying out all hours of the night, not calling, not keeping a steady job, just generally not respecting me at all - up until we had a VERY brief separation around January of this year. He stayed gone maybe 2 months, got "clean" in AA/NA and came back home.
        "Getting clean" is a good sign. What about his employment -- is it steady
        now?
        Things since then have been better, relatively speaking. He's been clean and sober since I kicked him out, but his temper is ridiculous. It all sort of hit home for me the other day when I was told by one of my son's teachers that when she asked him what he was drawing a picture of he told her, "my mommy crying because my daddy kicked her." Of course, when I asked my son about it he said it was "just pretend" but he had to get those ideas from somewhere (he's 4). I don't know that he's ever seen his Dad push me before, but it's happened. And I know we've fought more than we should have in front of him. When I tell my husband about this, he says "if I had hit you you would have known it!" and that he only pushed me lightly because I shouldn't have been nagging him, etc.
        IMHO he's using that excuse to justify his abusive actions towards you, but
        it's not the real reason
        he's acting that way.
        I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says "I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm so tired. He says he wants to still try but I remind him I've been going at this with effort for four years, while he's only been working on it for 6 months. Maybe that's why. Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been calling a marriage. Any advice, anybody? Thanks!
        Okay, here's my advice: don't separate unless he becomes more violent.
        Locate a batterer's intervention program and insist that he attend and
        complete the course. My personal experience suggests that he
        is very much afraid of something, and until he finds out what it is and how
        to deal with it, things won't get any better and they might get a lot
        worse. If he is sincere about wanting to "be a better person," attending a
        properly-run BIP could be life-changing for him. The reason I suggest
        *not* separating is that he may need a lot of support from you while he's
        attending the course.

        Please keep us posted.

        Glen
        0/0

        (Yeah, it's been a year, but I'm back ;>)


        -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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        Comment


        • #5
          Trial separation? Need advice...

          x-no-archive: yes

          "Ignoramus5278" <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:[email protected] .com...
          I am confused a little, maybe you can help me. You say that his temper is ridiculous. Then for some reason you bring up a fictitious drawing by your son that refers to "you crying after his dad hit you". But then you continue and say that he never hit you. Then what is the relevance of the drawing?
          Maybe the son is simply afraid that dad will hit mom? If the arguing is
          severe enough, kids can get worried about that even if it never happens.
          For example, I found out long after my divorce that my kids had been worried
          that their dad would hit me (although he wasn't a hitter) because he yelled
          and ranted and raved harshly enough to scare them. I wonder if there could
          be some element of that in the OP story...
          The arguing in front of children, who starts it? You or him? When he pushed you, did he do it because you did not let him leave the room where you were arguing?



          Comment


          • #6
            Trial separation? Need advice...

            I agree with Doug. I am sorry you have to go through this, but thinking
            with a clear head is much better.
            good luck!


            "Doug Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected]
            [email protected] (Manna) writes:
            big snip Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been calling a marriage.
            Quite a story, and I have no relevant experience from which to draw,
            myself.
            But, I think a trial separation is a good thing to do if your goal is to end up apart. If you want to stay _together_, then joint counseling is probably more productive.

            Comment


            • #7
              Trial separation? Need advice...

              Let me make sure I have this straight.

              Both you and your husband led a pretty wild and crazy life - totally
              enjoying it - until you turned up preggers (oops!) at 20. Upon which time
              you decided that the "right thing to do" was become the model of motherhood
              and **** IT you expect your husband to thusly become the model of fatherhood
              as well. To that end you constantly nag him at every turn that he has not
              become the MAN that you **** well expect him to. Regardless of his feelings
              on the matter.

              First of all - maybe he didn't want you to get pregnant. Maybe he didn't
              want to get married. Maybe he didn't want to change his lifestyle. Maybe,
              just maybe he was perfectly happy the way that things were, before all hell
              broke loose.

              I can't see why you expect him to be something he obviously has no interest
              in being. Oh yeah, the "I want to go to church" statement. Ever think that
              he might be saying these things just to shut you up so you will quit nagging
              him about it?

              He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED,
              without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still
              enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you
              do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you
              fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out.

              SD


              Comment


              • #8
                Trial separation? Need advice...

                An outstanding post.

                i

                In article <[email protected]>, Shashay Doofray wrote:
                Let me make sure I have this straight. Both you and your husband led a pretty wild and crazy life - totally enjoying it - until you turned up preggers (oops!) at 20. Upon which time you decided that the "right thing to do" was become the model of motherhood and **** IT you expect your husband to thusly become the model of fatherhood as well. To that end you constantly nag him at every turn that he has not become the MAN that you **** well expect him to. Regardless of his feelings on the matter. First of all - maybe he didn't want you to get pregnant. Maybe he didn't want to get married. Maybe he didn't want to change his lifestyle. Maybe, just maybe he was perfectly happy the way that things were, before all hell broke loose. I can't see why you expect him to be something he obviously has no interest in being. Oh yeah, the "I want to go to church" statement. Ever think that he might be saying these things just to shut you up so you will quit nagging him about it? He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED, without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out. SD

                Comment


                • #9
                  Trial separation? Need advice...

                  > I am confused a little, maybe you can help me. You say that his temper
                  is ridiculous. Then for some reason you bring up a fictitious drawing by your son that refers to "you crying after his dad hit you". But then you continue and say that he never hit you. Then what is the relevance of the drawing?
                  Sorry if I wasn't very clear. I posted that very quickly (at work)
                  earlier today.. and I was pretty emotional at the time. LOL

                  Yeah.. he has an awful temper and has on occasion thrown things at me
                  (or just at the walls), punched holes in things, or pushed me.
                  The arguing in front of children, who starts it? You or him?
                  We're probably both guilty of this.
                  When he pushed you, did he do it because you did not let him leave the room where you were arguing?
                  No, he came over and pushed me down because I got the baby out of the
                  crib and he (the baby) pushed some buttons and changed the settings on
                  his guitar while he was playing it. (I was trying to eat dinner at
                  the time and figured he could watch the child for a few minutes).

                  Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trial separation? Need advice...

                    On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:12:52 -0400, Herr Taurus
                    <[email protected]> wrote:
                    That's the PAST! Don't make excuses for the present by bringing upthe PAST! That was then...this is now. And, besides...there's many amarriage that started out like yours...and has lasted 50 years andlonger.

                    Yeah, my paternal grandparents had one like that. He beat the crap out
                    of her and the male children and molested the female children. Gotta
                    love those enforced, stay together, forget past transgressions type of
                    marriages.

                    Generally, what starts out as ****, ends up as ****.

                    The fact of the matter is, she has grown up, he hasn't. If he's
                    unhappy, it's not her job to make him happy. If he is unhappy, that's
                    no crime. Get out. Move on. God bless.

                    Taking his unhappiness out on her, because he doesn't have the balls
                    to move on, could become a crime. That would be sad. And, if she
                    stayed around that long, she'd be a dumbass.

                    Nance

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Trial separation? Need advice...

                      On 25 Jun 2003 20:38:20 -0700, [email protected] (Manna) wrote:
                      My husband won't go to counseling. I asked already. His opinion of counseling is this, "why should I pay someone else totell me how to fix something when I could do the same thing myself forfree if I wanted to badly enough?"
                      You have got to be kidding me.

                      The man has basically told you if you were important enough to him,
                      he'd make the requested changes on his own. No. Not basically. If the
                      above quote is true, he's out and out told you.

                      You don't matter to him from what you've posted above. Why are you
                      still there? Do you enjoy being abused?

                      Nance

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Trial separation? Need advice...

                        "Shashay Doofray" <[email protected]> writes:
                        Let me make sure I have this straight. Both you and your husband led a pretty wild and crazy life - totally enjoying it - until you turned up preggers (oops!) at 20. Upon which time you decided that the "right thing to do" was become the model of motherhood and **** IT you expect your husband to thusly become the model of fatherhood as well. To that end you constantly nag him at every turn that he has not become the MAN that you **** well expect him to. Regardless of his feelings on the matter. First of all - maybe he didn't want you to get pregnant.
                        If he didn't want to father a child he should have practiced birth control.
                        Maybe he didn't want to get married.
                        If he didn't want to get married, he shouldn't have. It's not the OPs
                        fault that he did. That was a decision _he_ made.
                        Maybe he didn't want to change his lifestyle.
                        If that is the case he shouldn't have gotten someone pregnant and
                        married them, both choices that me made.
                        Maybe, just maybe he was perfectly happy the way that things were, before all hell broke loose.
                        Maybe he was, but he made choices that changed things.
                        I can't see why you expect him to be something he obviously has no interest in being. Oh yeah, the "I want to go to church" statement. Ever think that he might be saying these things just to shut you up so you will quit nagging him about it? He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED, without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out.
                        It is reasonable to want him not to be abusive, whether she leaves or
                        not. It is also reasonable to want him to support his child both
                        materially and emotionally.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Trial separation? Need advice...

                          Herr Taurus <[email protected]> writes:
                          I, too, don't see the meaning behind your story. It sounds like your son is making up stories in his head. It doesn't sound like your husband is physically abusive.
                          It sounds to me like her husband is abusive, and it sounds like there
                          is a risk of him becoming seriously physically abusive.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Trial separation? Need advice...

                            > The fact of the matter is, she has grown up, he hasn't. If he's
                            unhappy, it's not her job to make him happy. If he is unhappy, that's no crime. Get out. Move on. God bless. Taking his unhappiness out on her, because he doesn't have the balls to move on, could become a crime. That would be sad. And, if she stayed around that long, she'd be a dumbass.
                            Thanks Nance.

                            You're very right. He's a grown man, he can make his own decisions.
                            I've only recently come to realize how much of an enabler I am... He
                            has admitted to me how miserable he is, but for some stupid reason I
                            always felt like it was my job to "save" him before. And I suppose
                            I've always minimized his mistreatment of me (probably because he says
                            "you deserved it, etc") - you know how when you stay in a bad
                            relationship for so long, you lose your sense of self, your
                            self-esteem.

                            Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone. Husband and I sat down and
                            talked about it last night and decided the best thing for the kids
                            would be for him to go. If once we're apart we decide to try to
                            "start over" from the beginning (dating again after a few months
                            hiatus) - fine. If not, then that's fine too. We can still be good
                            parents to our children individually without having to be involved in
                            a relationship with each other.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Trial separation? Need advice...

                              > >My husband won't go to counseling. I asked already.
                              His opinion of counseling is this, "why should I pay someone else totell me how to fix something when I could do the same thing myself forfree if I wanted to badly enough?" You have got to be kidding me. The man has basically told you if you were important enough to him, he'd make the requested changes on his own. No. Not basically. If the above quote is true, he's out and out told you. You don't matter to him from what you've posted above. Why are you still there? Do you enjoy being abused?

                              Yeah, it's ridiculous. He has a huge ego - "no one can tell me what
                              to do" is pretty much his life's motto. He doesn't understand the
                              meaning of "constructive criticism."

                              But soon it won't be my problem anymore...

                              Thanks!

                              Comment

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