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  • pay for mandatory meetings Arizona

    I am currently working as a massage therapist for a Chiropractor. I am paid an an employee, getting paid per massage that i give. If i am not giving a massage however i am not getting paid.

    My question is my current doctor has been asking me to attend meetings, but he is unwilling to pay for my attendance. There has been several meetings and i have not attended them. This has caused tension in the office for me and the other massage therapist, because we are not being informed of changes in office procedure. The office manager is now telling it is my fault for not going to meetings and that i will not be paid for massages if i do not follow the new procedure.

    Is it state law that requires business owner to paid for meetings? If it is the law where can i find that information, so that i can share it with my boss and office manager.
    thank you,
    dejuliolmt

  • #2
    You said that you are paid as an employee. That would mean that one a workweek basis you would have to be paid at least minimum wage (on average) for all hours worked, including meetings. This is federal law (FLSA), which would include AZ.

    http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.pdf

    ------

    On an aside, has anyone noticed that we seem to get a lot of AZ questions for the number of people in the state?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
    Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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    • #3
      Lectures, Meetings and Training Programs: Attendance at lectures, meetings, training programs and similar activities need not be counted as working time only if four criteria are met, namely: it is outside normal hours, it is voluntary, not job related, and no other work is concurrently performed.


      This is the exact paragraph from The US Department of Labor: wage and hour division.

      Am i reading this correctly...It a meeting is to be paid for them these four criteria must be met:
      1)it must be with in normal hours
      2) it must be mandatory
      3) it must be job related
      4) other work is concurrently performed.

      The forth one throws me, by boss will hold meeting for the whole staff to set in on, so during these meetings no other work is being done. The secretary does not answer phones, the insurance biller is not billing, the doctor is not treating patients. So does that mean these meetings should not be paid for??

      I think i need some clarification, any help will be appreciated.

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      • #4
        You are reversing the conditions. The exact quote is "... need not be counted as working time only if four criteria are met". Any one of the four conditions being true means we have paid hours worked. For the hours to be unpaid, all four conditions must be true. You say that condition #4 is not true. Fine, but conditions #1, #2 and #3 apparently are true, and only one condition must be true for the training hour to be paid time.
        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
        Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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        • #5
          Thank you for the explanation. So if not all 4 criteria are true the meetings, lecture or training is considered working hours. This is very useful information, again thank you.

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          • #6
            http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.pdf

            Lectures, Meetings and Training Programs: Attendance at lectures, meetings, training programs and similar activities need not be counted as working time only if four criteria are met, namely: it is outside normal hours, it is voluntary, not job related, and no other work is concurrently performed.

            In order to be *not* counted as working time & unpaid *all* four conditions must be met.

            As DAW said, you "reversed" the conditions.
            Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

            Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

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            • #7
              I SO wish they had not presented this regulation as a double negative. We grammar geeks HATE double negatives.
              I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

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              • #8
                I know - I wish it had been worded different also.
                Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

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                • #9
                  Agreed, although this does not make the top hundred thousand list of poorly written federal rules.
                  "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                  Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DAW View Post
                    Agreed, although this does not make the top hundred thousand list of poorly written federal rules.
                    Number 100,101 maybe?
                    I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

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                    • #11
                      Sometimes I think they try to make the rules confusing.
                      Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                      Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

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                      • #12
                        Mostly I think that they do not care if the rules make any sense.
                        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                        Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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