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FMLA for Caregiver Indiana

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  • FMLA for Caregiver Indiana

    Facts
    Employee request Intermitten FMLA to take care of her mother.
    Employee wants time off to move her mother from the mother's home to

    Other Information
    Employee states she is the caregiver of her mother

    Therefore, is it possible for someone to be the caregiver of their mother to use FMLA time to move their mother from one personal home to another personal home (i.e. non-nursing home)?

    I understand if the employee needs to take her mom to the doctor, but to move them from house to house because the mother is physically unable to move boxes? I wasn't sure if that was covered?

    Thank you in advance
    Last edited by Judson50; 04-05-2011, 09:55 AM.

  • #2
    She's not caring for her mother, she's moving her. I'd tell her that's what she has vacation for and she's welcome to use it to do the moving. I don't at all see this as falling under the FMLA's provision to care for a parent with a "serious health condition." She's not providing any necessary care.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Beth3 View Post
      She's not caring for her mother, she's moving her. I'd tell her that's what she has vacation for and she's welcome to use it to do the moving. I don't at all see this as falling under the FMLA's provision to care for a parent with a "serious health condition." She's not providing any necessary care.
      As point of clarification; however, if she were moving her to healthcare facility that would be covered correct? I want to use your example "must provide care" however, I think moving to a healthcare facility is that one exception?

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not sure I can give you the letter of the law on that but in that instance, I very likely would approve FMLA. She'd be moving her mother so that her mother can get necessary care. But just moving mom from House A to House B doesn't have anything to do with FMLA even if her mother is incapable of doing it herself. Mom could hire a moving company to do exactly the same thing the daughter plans on doing on mom's behalf.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Beth3 View Post
          I'm not sure I can give you the letter of the law on that but in that instance, I very likely would approve FMLA. She'd be moving her mother so that her mother can get necessary care. But just moving mom from House A to House B doesn't have anything to do with FMLA even if her mother is incapable of doing it herself. Mom could hire a moving company to do exactly the same thing the daughter plans on doing on mom's behalf.
          It sounds like the same conversation I've had with the employee.

          Based on the answer you gave me, which I discussed with the employee last week, the employee states: She [Employee] is the one who pays for all expenses for her mother; therefore, to pay for a mover would be coming out of her [employee's] pocket. Thus the necessity for FMLA.

          My thoughts, while that is unfortunate, I don't see this (in the case of the law and FMLA) being any different than a parent who requested FMLA to move themself from town A to town B; thus one sould use PTO/Vacation.

          Now, if the move was necessitated for a medical reason (e.g. to get care like in a nursing home) then yes; however, in this scenario it would not be covered.

          Comment


          • #6
            But what if the "medical reason" is because her doctor said she can't climb stairs anymore, and the daughter's house has no stairs? Do you really want to start splitting hairs like that? Instead of getting into all that, my company has allowed moves from one house to another of an immediate family member being cared for by an employee to fall under the already approved FML.

            If it's a good, reliable employee, then we're happy to accomodate them.
            If it's a bad unreliable employee, well, then allowing it just causes them to eat up their FML faster, in case we want to get rid of them

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TSCompliance View Post
              But what if the "medical reason" is because her doctor said she can't climb stairs anymore, and the daughter's house has no stairs? Do you really want to start splitting hairs like that? Instead of getting into all that, my company has allowed moves from one house to another of an immediate family member being cared for by an employee to fall under the already approved FML.

              If it's a good, reliable employee, then we're happy to accomodate them.
              If it's a bad unreliable employee, well, then allowing it just causes them to eat up their FML faster, in case we want to get rid of them
              While I see your point, I find that very hard to be fair firm and consistent. I am curious, how would you justify not allowing everyone to move their parents and be protected under FMLA? Why couldn't they move on the weekend when the office is closed?

              I guess my thoughts are, I don't see the medical necessity for a physical move (with the exception to a nursing home or onsite care ect). I personally do not see a medical necessity to move from a 2 story house to a "ranch" house.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, but "medical necessity" is established by the doctor. I wouldn't argue it under the medical necessity standard.

                I was just pointing out that even though you don't have to accept moving the mother as falling under FML, there may be benefits to doing so. We've all had employees who haven't necessarily done something teminable, but whom we'd like to see go away. This way, she eats up a few more days of FML, and runs out of it sooner.

                It's a rare thing when we have someone in intermittent FML to care for an adult family member, but in such cases, we have found it benefcial to the employee and to the company to make an allowance whenever something is on the fence. this is still fair & consistent. We'd do it for any employee in that situation, with the outcome being that the employee is happy, and we are that many days closer to dropping someone we'd rather not keep.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TSCompliance View Post
                  Yeah, but "medical necessity" is established by the doctor. I wouldn't argue it under the medical necessity standard.

                  I was just pointing out that even though you don't have to accept moving the mother as falling under FML, there may be benefits to doing so. We've all had employees who haven't necessarily done something teminable, but whom we'd like to see go away. This way, she eats up a few more days of FML, and runs out of it sooner.

                  It's a rare thing when we have someone in intermittent FML to care for an adult family member, but in such cases, we have found it benefcial to the employee and to the company to make an allowance whenever something is on the fence. this is still fair & consistent. We'd do it for any employee in that situation, with the outcome being that the employee is happy, and we are that many days closer to dropping someone we'd rather not keep.
                  Now, I am just being curious, so when you deny it - what grounds do you "deny" it on?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The problem with designating non-FMLA qualifying absences as FMLA is that if challenged, the employee would have that amount of time left of their FMLA. In other words, if they take off 11 weeks for other FMLA reasons, 1 week for moving but you designate it as FMLA, and later have another need for FMLA you can not say time is up. If an employer could just designate any absence they wanted as FMLA to burn the 12 weeks, they would. The employee always get 12 weeks of leave for FMLA qualifying reasons and anything over that the employer grants is gravy.

                    I'm not saying you can't grant the leave, but do not designate non-FMLA abesnces as FMLA. Transporting Mom to an assisted living facility is clearly medical as it is no different than transporting Mom to a hospital or doctor's office or Rehab facility. Mom deciding she would rather not do stairs and moving to a rancher in town or that new retirement community, is not, even if the doctor agrees Mom should not do stairs.
                    I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

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