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  • hung up Maryland

    I was having a phone conversation with one of the owners of the company I have work for the last 3 1/2 years. I was getting upset and instead of blowing my top (red hair) I
    calmly said "fine then" and hung up. The back story was that I was told that I could be added to the Health Ins. Plan at any time. This was told to me last September went we were
    seeing if my wife and I could get it cheaper than through her work. I was told that I could get on anytime but she had to wait for open enrollment (in Dec.). The cost was higher so I
    told this boss that I would just stay on her plan until, at lease, sometime in 2014. He said that would be good and hopefully it may be cheaper with Obama Care. In April my wife wanted me to check on the cost of my company Health Insurance, we needed to know by the end of May, so I sent a email to the owner that runs the shop. In this email, the owner I hung up on is the accountant that only comes in to do payroll every 2 weeks, usually, I stated that the accountant owner had told me I could get on anytime and what the cost would be. he emailed me that he would leave it on the accountant's desk. So after payroll day my direct boss told me that the accountant said they could add me in August. When I asked the cost I was then told, several other employees were also never told, it doesn't cost the employee anything. I was told I get get on the plan after 3 months, when I was hired, but told them I was already on a plan and wouldn't need it. One enployee hire some 6 months after me told them his Health Insance was only $ 100.00 a month and they said fine, not telling him that their's wouldn't cost him anything, I pay $120.00 a month for being on my wife's plan. We both thought not bring on their plan may translate into a better wage after our 6 month review, didn't happen.
    So back to the hang-up, I hadn't heard anything yet so send another email last week stating, I had been dropped from my wife's plan June 30th, he again left it on the accountant's desk. The accountant was mowing the grass and stopped in, saw the note and told my boss I would have to wait until open enrollment, in Dec. I was quite upset and wrote a note on the accountant's desk, I was given the accountant's phone # in my boss's reply to my email, so after I left the note I left him a voice mail stated I was told I didn't have to wait until open enrollment and relying on what I was told had canceled my wife's insurance (in June my wife took early retirement and is on longer covered). this was last friday, monday evening, I work the 2nd shift, the accountant called saying he thinks I have to wait until Dec., I mentioned that this was a qualifying event and please check to see if I could get on now, he said he would and would talk to me Thursday (payroll day). He was already gone by the start of my shift, by called in around 4:30, it should be noted that I run a CNN metal mill, and was trying to finish up a run on my machine, stress level up, so I had to leave the floor and take the call sitting on a desk in the inspection room. He starting in that he had been on the phone for 45 minutes with them and that he had never told me I could get on at anytime. Went I mentioned that he had last sept. he denied, I told that in April my boss told me he had said I could be added in August. He said my boss didn't know that information, I then tried to mention my email in april had stated that i was told by him that I could be added at anytime, he said I didn't get a email from him or my boss stating that, before I could make the point it would have been nice if he had read it and told me i was mistaken then (before I canceled my insurance). But he got defensive and saying how he bent over backwards for his employee's etc etc and I would have to wait until Dec. I said fine then and hung-up the phone gently, and went back to work.
    I heard the phone ring and my boss came to me and said the accountant was on the phone and that I had hung-up, their are brothers,I said I didn't want to talk to him. He said that the accountant would fire me if I didn't talk to him, I said your kidding he wouldn't fire a good employee for that, he said yes he would he's a hothead. So round two when better, after I was told by the accountant that even though I was a good employee, he respected my work efthices (sp), and that he was even going to come to me for some things (I survey property also), but if I ever hang-up on him again he will fire me. I said I was sorry. he then proceeded to tell me if my insurance was good until July 31st, not canceled over 30 days(that would have been nice to know a month ago) they could pick me up or I could get another coverage for two month's after which they could pick me up. But they may quit carrying employee Health Insurance in Dec. He stated hanging up on him was disrespecting his authority and never ever do it again, so I said okay and I would let him hang-up 1st.
    Yes he's the owner, I shouldn't have hung-up, but going off on him would have been worst. I had questioned were my raise was after my 2nd Sept., I was told that I would get a raise after 6 months and then yearly. He testily told me that yearly raises were given in Dec. if we even get one. Yes that year I got 1\2 of what everyone else got. Being a former business owner and with this recession, especially in the manufacture area, I know stress is an overwhelming factor here. But being almost 58 and a hard worker, sorry kids, today workers are far and few between. I feel that I should get everything in writing from now on, but if requested, I will be shown the door. I never have been on unempolyment and wonder if I can collect if fired. I'm a "A" type, had try not to get mad, also and you know how we get along.

  • #2
    Just to clarify one point.

    If your health insurance plan is subject to Section 125 regulations (and in my experience approximately 99.7% of employer sponsored health plans which are not tied to a union are subject to Section 125 regulations - and even a union cannot make IRS regs go away) then you can add or drop coverage ONLY during the annual open enrollment, or within 30 days of an IRS-approved qualifying event. Loss or gain of other coverage IS a qualifying event; however you only have a 30 day window to make your elections AND you need to provide written third-party verification of the qualifying event. The one thing you CANNOT do is come on at any time. This is Federal law. It's a shame if you were given incorrect information but your employer is required to follow the law.

    Now, as to how much it costs, that's up to your employer. It is not unheard of for an employer to charge the employee nothing for his own coverage, but to charge for dependents, so that may be where some of the confusion came in.

    Now, to your question, if you are fired for this, no one can carve this in stone but the state. However, IMO it is unlikely that you would be denied UI under these circumstances.

    Note to Raster: This is precisely what I do for a living and have for 35 years. You even THINK about making up one of your but-maybe-this- poster's-facts-are-different-scenarios and you're off this board until the next time the Cubs win the World Series.
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not entirely sure what your question is. Using proper paragraphs and grammar would help. The long and short (I think) is that you were fired for losing your temper and hanging up on our boss. That is a legal reason to fire you in every state. You don't get a pass due to hair color, temperament, provocation or it being "better" than some other action you wanted to take.

      If fired, file for unemployment. It is free to do so and there is no penalty for being unsuccessful. It is questionable that you will qualify but it never hurts to try. Getting benefits is not an indication that your employer did anything wrong.

      Whether you should have been offered benefits or qualified depends on the way the plan document was written and if applicable, section 125 rules. If you lost other coverage, you can join outside OE but there is a time limit and you appear well over. You also need to provide proof of loss of coverage.

      They are not obligated to pay you more because you take benefits elsewhere and it is legal to not give you a raise or give you less of one for being difficult to work with. Their opinion that you are difficult is all that matters.
      I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

      Comment


      • #4
        You note the short leash cbg has put me on....

        If you mouthed off to the boss and hung up --that may well be misconduct see definitions below for MD

        Suggestion..file for UI and keep your red hair under control and your mouth shut . If employer contests --post / address the specific s not some 101 other possible points. Whether or not employer has it right as to that medical plan is MOOT if you got fired for misconduct. So far, nothing you post suggests your were fired for anything but mouthing off and handing up --and thats a pretty good reason to get your fired? .

        Comment


        • #5
          DISCHARGED FROM EMPLOYMENT - Depending on the reason you were discharged, there are three levels of misconduct in the Maryland Unemployment Insurance Law.
          Simple Misconduct - If you were discharged or suspended for simple misconduct in connection with the work.
          Benefits will be denied from 10 to 15 weeks from the week that includes your last day of work.
          Gross Misconduct - If you were discharged or suspended for gross misconduct in connection with the work (serious or repeated violations of employment rules or expected standards of behavior could be considered gross misconduct).
          Benefits are denied until you become re-employed and earn 25 times your weekly benefit amount in insured work.
          Aggravated Misconduct - If you were discharged or suspended for aggravated misconduct in connection with the work (malicious, deliberate acts meant to cause physical harm, property loss or damage could be considered aggravated misconduct).
          Benefits are denied until you become re-employed and earn 30 times your weekly benefit amount in insured work.

          Comment


          • #6
            If "short leash" means I'm not having you confuse the poster by suggesting that the laws really say something other than what they do say because you've chosen to insert facts into the poster's scenario that don't belong and then interpret the laws in view of your imaginary facts instead of the poster's real ones, then yes, you are on a very short leash and don't you forget it.
            The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

            Comment


            • #7
              OP ---on second read of you post I'm not clear if you got fired or merely landed in hot water with mouth and hang ups it sort of reads like the next time you are toast but not yet?

              Suggestion : If you are still aboard then cool it and if necessary eat a bit of humble pie and get off hot topics or at least stay off his radar , quite frankly for the short run you are better off inside with a job than outside looking at 58, never mind a debate over UI and misconduct .

              A small employer has some options to get out of providing health care , there is no right or duty that you get paid more for having opted out obstensibley saving employer money.

              I think there may be a few potholes in employers steps, ones that would be rather unlikely under a somebody like cbgs eyes --but I suspect this is a rather small firm run by family and not necessarily staffed with hr pros --that said it matters not if firm got a few steps wrong (not that that is in your post per se) but in the meantime they drop health coverage and you get fired ..none of that will do a darn thing but hasten your exit as a trouble maker . Look I see your point of view ...been in almost your exact shoes ..had friends in almost same shoes --some got rewarded --some got left in dust --I dont see any upside to getting your red hair fired up in a downhill quest.

              If you and wife are on wife's employers plan I would not burn that bridge even if its a few bucks more

              Comment


              • #8
                yes, not toast yet

                Originally posted by Raster View Post
                OP ---on second read of you post I'm not clear if you got fired or merely landed in hot water with mouth and hang ups it sort of reads like the next time you are toast but not yet?

                Suggestion : If you are still aboard then cool it and if necessary eat a bit of humble pie and get off hot topics or at least stay off his radar , quite frankly for the short run you are better off inside with a job than outside looking at 58, never mind a debate over UI and misconduct .

                A small employer has some options to get out of providing health care , there is no right or duty that you get paid more for having opted out obstensibley saving employer money.

                I think there may be a few potholes in employers steps, ones that would be rather unlikely under a somebody like cbgs eyes --but I suspect this is a rather small firm run by family and not necessarily staffed with hr pros --that said it matters not if firm got a few steps wrong (not that that is in your post per se) but in the meantime they drop health coverage and you get fired ..none of that will do a darn thing but hasten your exit as a trouble maker . Look I see your point of view ...been in almost your exact shoes ..had friends in almost same shoes --some got rewarded --some got left in dust --I dont see any upside to getting your red hair fired up in a downhill quest.

                If you and wife are on wife's employers plan I would not burn that bridge even if its a few bucks more
                Raster
                Thanks for the re-read, I was venting, as for your suggestion, which is very good, I have cooled it. I even went to work and had a good day. Even heard some supporting comments from fellow employees, which I thought would never side with me on a thing. Yes, I think your eating humble pie and staying off the topic idea will help. I still enjoy the challenge of machinist work, and it is the best shop, in our rural county, to work in. I don't think I mouth offed, having hung-up before I saw red. I am thankful his brother, my direct boss, rolled very far from the tree. They are night and day. Thanks again ( thinking twice before hanging up from now on)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ElleMD View Post
                  I'm not entirely sure what your question is. Using proper paragraphs and grammar would help. The long and short (I think) is that you were fired for losing your temper and hanging up on our boss. That is a legal reason to fire you in every state. You don't get a pass due to hair color, temperament, provocation or it being "better" than some other action you wanted to take.

                  If fired, file for unemployment. It is free to do so and there is no penalty for being unsuccessful. It is questionable that you will qualify but it never hurts to try. Getting benefits is not an indication that your employer did anything wrong.

                  Whether you should have been offered benefits or qualified depends on the way the plan document was written and if applicable, section 125 rules. If you lost other coverage, you can join outside OE but there is a time limit and you appear well over. You also need to provide proof of loss of coverage.

                  They are not obligated to pay you more because you take benefits elsewhere and it is legal to not give you a raise or give you less of one for being difficult to work with. Their opinion that you are difficult is all that matters.
                  I did hang-up but didn't do it in anger, didn't say anything but a quiet "alright then" and ended the call. I was upset and did not want to hear any more. I wasn't fired, just told that if I ever hung-up on him again, even though I am a excellent worker, I would be fired. Thanks

                  PS sorry about the lack of paragraphs this was my 1st post and didn't know they would run together as bad as they did.
                  As far as the grammar and spelling, there is no hope.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cbg View Post
                    Just to clarify one point.

                    If your health insurance plan is subject to Section 125 regulations (and in my experience approximately 99.7% of employer sponsored health plans which are not tied to a union are subject to Section 125 regulations - and even a union cannot make IRS regs go away) then you can add or drop coverage ONLY during the annual open enrollment, or within 30 days of an IRS-approved qualifying event. Loss or gain of other coverage IS a qualifying event; however you only have a 30 day window to make your elections AND you need to provide written third-party verification of the qualifying event. The one thing you CANNOT do is come on at any time. This is Federal law. It's a shame if you were given incorrect information but your employer is required to follow the law.

                    Now, as to how much it costs, that's up to your employer. It is not unheard of for an employer to charge the employee nothing for his own coverage, but to charge for dependents, so that may be where some of the confusion came in.

                    Now, to your question, if you are fired for this, no one can carve this in stone but the state. However, IMO it is unlikely that you would be denied UI under these circumstances.

                    Note to Raster: This is precisely what I do for a living and have for 35 years. You even THINK about making up one of your but-maybe-this- poster's-facts-are-different-scenarios and you're off this board until the next time the Cubs win the World Series.


                    Thanks for the comments, the Insurance information was really helpful. I hung-up because I was upset, and didn't mouth off as some who commented seem to think.
                    I don't view that as a cardinal sin, but maybe in the employer\employee world it is considered a behavior misconduct.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As I said, I think it very unlikely that the state will view hanging up on your boss as misconduct worthy of denying unemployment benefits, in the event that there are any more repercussions. Hope all goes well, and if you have insurance questions, don't hesitate to bring them here. As I told Raster, answering questions about when an employee can a cannot access (or drop) their insurance is exactly what I do for a living (among other employer-sponsored benefit issues).
                      The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cbg View Post
                        If "short leash" means I'm not having you confuse the poster by suggesting that the laws really say something other than what they do say because you've chosen to insert facts into the poster's scenario that don't belong and then interpret the laws in view of your imaginary facts instead of the poster's real ones, then yes, you are on a very short leash and don't you forget it.
                        Like button...no, LOVE button!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OP ...It's not entirely clear what action RE health care you seek. The rules for a 125 plan are generally far from the you can get in anytime one desires.....yet there are multiple possibilities such as
                          Open enrollment periods
                          Qualifying events
                          special events ....

                          I am NOT up on all the details...I just know they are out there ..some are in the published rules..others such as specific open enrollment time windows may be in plan details ....do some homework w/o ruffling feathers!

                          If the employer keeps a qualified 125 plan in place ..you may have options ..but you must fit inside the rules/time frames.

                          This is NOT something where I think you are wise to stiir up discussions with co workers..as your post suggests you have done a bit of that already ....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And I AM up on all the details since I do it every working day of my life. This is PRECISELY what I'm taking about, Raster. You get into an area where you admit you do not have all the information and then contradict or ignore the posters who do.

                            I have already told him the circumstances under which he can come onto his employer's health plan BY LAW. I do not need to see his policy to know what they are. Why do you insist on making things more difficult?
                            The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cbg View Post
                              Why do you insist on making things more difficult?
                              That's what we would all like to know!
                              Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                              Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

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