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  • Need clarification. Help!!

    Originally posted by Megan Ross Hutchins View Post
    tdpass1 has given an excellent summary, but here are a few other points.

    CFRA does not run concurrently with PDL- once you are no longer disabled (or after you have used up your 4 month PDL allotment, as long as your baby is born by then) you can then take a 12 week CFRA "baby-bonding" leave. Since you will probably have at least 6 weeks of disability leave after the baby is born, you can stay out on leave for 18 weeks without losing your job.

    California has "paid family leave" which is payable through SDI, which will give you some payments for 6 weeks after your disability payments end.
    http://www.edd.ca.gov/fleclaimpfl.htm
    I didn't know how to start a new thread. . . .sorry!

    I have a few general questions regarding my specific situation. I am a government employee and work for a local municipality with well over 50 employees. I have been a full time employee of the municipality for over three years and I am eligible for FMLA and CFRA job-protection. I recently gave birth to my baby on 11/7/2010. Due to pregnancy disabilities my last day of work before delivery was 10/11/2010. I experienced post-partum complications, I required two additional weeks of medical leave during my recovery period. I was on leave for a total 12 weeks.

    I was recently released by my doctor to return to work on 1/10/2011. Upon returning to work, I contacted our HR department regarding "baby bonding" leave, as provided under CFRA. I was advised that I do not receive separate time off for baby bonding as my employer runs FMLA and CFRA concurrently. I was further advised that all of my leave had been expended because I was out for 12 weeks already. The HR represented stated that my PDL ended the day that I gave birth- which confused me- and all of the time I was on leave was considered FMLA/CFRA. It is my understanding that since I was deemed disabled by my physician prior to delivery and experienced complications post-partum, the 12 weeks of leave I utilized counted as Pregnancy Disability Leave. Subsequent to my meeting with HR, I conducted research regarding PDL, FMLA and CFRA and was able to determine that the information provided to me was not completely accurate.

    I was wondering if clarification could be provided regarding the following:

    Since I was disabled prior to delivery and experienced complications post partum, does the leave I have taken count as PDL?
    Does FMLA and CFRA typically run concurrently? If they do run concurrently and the time I was off constitutes as PDL, shouldn't I still be entitled to "baby bonding" under the CFRA?
    If I do qualify, can you please confirm if the allotted CFRA leave entitlement is for 6 or 12 weeks?
    What is the best method to advise my employer that I do, in fact, qualify for "baby bonding" under CFRA?
    I would like to thank you in advance for any information that you can provide.

  • #2
    I'll start a new thread for you - you posted to a thread from 2006.
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

    Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ca. - if one qualifies for FMLA/CFRA/PDL, it runs like this:

      PDL starts when the employee is no longer able to work, and can be up for 4 months. This is for the disability only. It does not allow for bonding time.

      FMLA can run concurrently with PDL. It is for 12 weeks and can be for the employee's disability due to the pregnancy and bonding.

      CFRA - It specifically excludes pregnancy as a serious health condition, and so it never, ever runs concurrently with PDL, although it may with FMLA (if there is any remaining time under FMLA after the employee no longer needs PDL). So after the employee has their full release from the pregnancy, they usually have another 12 weeks for bonding. (The only time that this would not be true if if the PDL expired prior to birth, then the CFRA could begin at birth).
      Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

      Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

      Comment


      • #4
        When does PDL end, at the birth of baby or upon release from the dr. after recovey?

        Thank you so much of the clarification. My HR and Payroll departments are insistent that I have exhausted my CFRA. They continue to assert that the clock started ticking the day my baby was born. However, it is my assertion that I was disabled for the 3 weeks before and 8 weeks after the birth of my baby. I assert the CFRA should have begun the day my doctor released me, not the day my baby was born.

        HR/Payroll is defining PDL as medical leave that is valid only while pregnant. Which according to your response is an incorrect interpretation. They state that my disability (postpartum complications and recovery) was not PDL but FMLA/CFRA. They stated that because it was recovery from the disability, it wasn't the disability itself. . .huh? I am not sure I understand that, can someone explain that to me?

        Just to make sure I clearly understand your response. . . the doctor's release (which in my case was 8 weeks postpartum) ended PDL and that is when CFRA should have begun, correct? If this is the case then it is apparent that I still have baby bonding time remaining under CFRA.

        How do I ensure my rights are not violated by my employer due to their misinterpretation of the law?

        Any suggestions?

        Since I had multiple postpartum complications I truly did not have the opportunity to bond with my baby before returning to work. It would mean the world to me to be able to do so without being stressed out about being unemployed.


        Thank you so much for your help.

        Originally posted by Betty3 View Post
        Ca. - if one qualifies for FMLA/CFRA/PDL, it runs like this:

        PDL starts when the employee is no longer able to work, and can be up for 4 months. This is for the disability only. It does not allow for bonding time.

        FMLA can run concurrently with PDL. It is for 12 weeks and can be for the employee's disability due to the pregnancy and bonding.

        CFRA - It specifically excludes pregnancy as a serious health condition, and so it never, ever runs concurrently with PDL, although it may with FMLA (if there is any remaining time under FMLA after the employee no longer needs PDL). So after the employee has their full release from the pregnancy, they usually have another 12 weeks for bonding. (The only time that this would not be true if if the PDL expired prior to birth, then the CFRA could begin at birth).

        Comment


        • #5
          It's possible for an employee to get up to 7 mos. of job protected pregnancy leave
          in Ca. though all women will not qualify for the total 7 mos.:
          In Ca. most female employees can take up to 4 mos. of leave for childbearing & pregnancy related disability (subject to med. certification that an actual disability exists) under the Fair Employment & Housing Act. The fed. FMLA & the state act are generally in alignment except in Ca. a woman can take a 4-mo. pregnancy disability leave followed by a 3-mo. fam. med. leave. This is the rare circumstance when leave under the FMLA & Ca. Fam. Rights Act don't run concurrently--FMLA leave will run concurrently with the 4-mos. of pregnancy disability leave, after which the Fam. Rights Act can be invoked for an add'l. 3-mo. leave. (for bonding)

          An employee will not get the total 4 mos. of PDL (pregnancy disability leave) unless
          they are disabled for 4 mos. Also for FMLA & CFRA the requirements for them must be
          met. (Seems they are in your case)

          After your pregnancy disability leave ends, you still can get an add'l. 12 weeks for bonding. PDL is not only while pregnant (before you give birth)-(HR/Payroll are wrong) but as long as you are disabled (until released by dr.) & as per your first post, your leave for pregnancy disability was not FMLA & CFRA (HR/Payroll wrong) - CFRA starts for bonding when no longer disabled from pregnancy.

          You can show HR/Payroll this complete thread or if you don't want to do that, you can
          put in a complaint with the Ca DFEH (Dept. Fair Employment & Housing).

          Good luck.
          Last edited by Betty3; 02-10-2011, 10:28 PM.
          Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

          Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Betty3!!!!

            Thank you so much for your advisement. They are also denying a colleague baby bonding under CFRA. . . I will have to pursue it further or may be forced to take your advise regarding filing a complaint.

            Thank you and Happy Valentine's Day to you!

            New mommie

            Originally posted by Betty3 View Post
            It's possible for an employee to get up to 7 mos. of job protected pregnancy leave
            in Ca. though all women will not qualify for the total 7 mos.:
            In Ca. most female employees can take up to 4 mos. of leave for childbearing & pregnancy related disability (subject to med. certification that an actual disability exists) under the Fair Employment & Housing Act. The fed. FMLA & the state act are generally in alignment except in Ca. a woman can take a 4-mo. pregnancy disability leave followed by a 3-mo. fam. med. leave. This is the rare circumstance when leave under the FMLA & Ca. Fam. Rights Act don't run concurrently--FMLA leave will run concurrently with the 4-mos. of pregnancy disability leave, after which the Fam. Rights Act can be invoked for an add'l. 3-mo. leave. (for bonding)

            An employee will not get the total 4 mos. of PDL (pregnancy disability leave) unless
            they are disabled for 4 mos. Also for FMLA & CFRA the requirements for them must be
            met. (Seems they are in your case)

            After your pregnancy disability leave ends, you still can get an add'l. 12 weeks for bonding. PDL is not only while pregnant (before you give birth)-(HR/Payroll are wrong) but as long as you are disabled (until released by dr.) & as per your first post, your leave for pregnancy disability was not FMLA & CFRA (HR/Payroll wrong) - CFRA starts for bonding when no longer disabled from pregnancy.

            You can show HR/Payroll this complete thread or if you don't want to do that, you can
            put in a complaint with the Ca DFEH (Dept. Fair Employment & Housing).

            Good luck.

            Comment


            • #7
              You're welcome & Happy Valentine's Day to you too.
              Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

              Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

              Comment


              • #8
                Verizon just settled with the DFEH for over 6 million dollars for interfering with their employees CFRA rights.

                Your employer is wrong and it would behoove them to correct this for you and your colleague before you (or someone else) contacts the DFEH. I would agree with Betty to show them this thread and see if they would be willing to re-evaluate.

                The only explanation (and it is a stretch and one I personally wouldn't even think of attempting) is classifying your absences under CFRA due to the complications of your pregnancy. Normally a healthy pregnancy is excluded under CFRA, but one with complications can be (emphasizing can be, not is) attributed to CFRA. But in that case, your PDL would have expired, because PDL and CFRA never, ever run concurrently.

                Your HR dept is putting your Company in a very very precarious position.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry didn't mean to bold the whole post, just the part about the Verizion settlement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    California likes their employees.
                    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                    Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HR/DisMgr View Post
                      The only explanation (and it is a stretch and one I personally wouldn't even think of attempting) is classifying your absences under CFRA due to the complications of your pregnancy. Normally a healthy pregnancy is excluded under CFRA, but one with complications can be (emphasizing can be, not is) attributed to CFRA. But in that case, your PDL would have expired, because PDL and CFRA never, ever run concurrently.
                      I don't see how they can get away with that in this case. You can get up to 4 mos.
                      of PDL which OP didn't take/need the whole 4 mos. The time she was off was all PDL. Her CFRA didn't run with the PDL she took. She gets CFRA (12 wks.) for bonding *after* her PDL ended. The above "might" be the explanation the employer is "trying" to use though - more likely they don't know the rules.
                      Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                      Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

                      Comment

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