Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

    Sep 13, 7:38 AM EDT
    Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

    LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) -- Humberto A. Taveras put his money where his
    mouth is and ended up arrested, accused of leaving an inadequate tip
    at a restaurant.

    Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he
    and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill
    managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large
    parties.

    "They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It
    killed our weekend."

    Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant in this resort
    village Sunday night. He said they weren't completely satisfied with
    the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also
    were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or
    more and did not see notice of it on their menus.

    Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and
    the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue
    charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was
    obnoxious.

    "It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and
    abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said.

    Taveras plans to fight the charge. The arrest raises the issue of
    whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for
    serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

  • #2
    Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip


    "They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend." Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant in this resort village Sunday night. He said they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus. Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious. "It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said. Taveras plans to fight the charge. The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.
    Automatic gratuities are (by definition) not legally enforceable debts. It
    is a favor or gift. You can't require someone to give someone a gift.

    This issue is very messy, though. I hope Taveras wins this fight, as he
    SHOULD. However, this could cause other problems. Because large groups of
    diners often don't tip well, if at all, a restaurant owner is practically
    forced to charge for the gratuity. If this case declares that the practice
    of tacking a gratuity onto a bill is illegal, watch for new restrictive
    rules to be adopted by restaurant owners. Something like . . . more than 4
    people requires a reservation 90 days in advance. Or maybe tables will seat
    no more than 4, and be BOLTED TO THE FLOOR, with a requirement that each
    table have a separate check. That way, it's not possible at all to have a
    party of more than 4 on one check.

    -Dave


    Comment


    • #3
      Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

      "Dave C." <[email protected]> writes:
      Automatic gratuities are (by definition) not legally enforceable debts. Itis a favor or gift. You can't require someone to give someone a gift.
      Frequently when a restaurant adds the tip to the bill, they
      don't call it a tip or a gratuity, they call it a fee for
      service. I imagine that such a fee would be enforceable if
      notification was given (as it apparently was in this case).

      Comment


      • #4
        Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

        Dave,

        Something doesn't seem right with this post. In my experience when a
        "large party" tip is expected it is not left at the table but is included in
        the price. Usually it is marked on the bill as a tip but it is part of the
        price of the meal and is not negotiable. I note that in the description of
        the dispute service was not the issue; food quality was. Why they would
        punish the waitress for the chef's work is not clear. I hope Taveras loses
        since he chose to punish the wrong party and may not have paid his bill.

        Dave M.


        Comment


        • #5
          Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip


          "David Martel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:[email protected] .net...
          Dave, Something doesn't seem right with this post. In my experience when a "large party" tip is expected it is not left at the table but is included
          in
          the price. Usually it is marked on the bill as a tip but it is part of the price of the meal and is not negotiable.
          That's just it though . . . WHO SAYS it's not negotiable? The restaurant
          owner? He/she doesn't have the weight of law behind them, yet, as no court
          has ruled on the issue. -Dave


          Comment


          • #6
            Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

            On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:05:07 -0400, "Dave C." <[email protected]> wrote:
            Taveras plans to fight the charge. The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.Automatic gratuities are (by definition) not legally enforceable debts. Itis a favor or gift. You can't require someone to give someone a gift.This issue is very messy, though. I hope Taveras wins this fight, as heSHOULD. However, this could cause other problems. Because large groups ofdiners often don't tip well, if at all, a restaurant owner is practicallyforced to charge for the gratuity. If this case declares that the practiceof tacking a gratuity onto a bill is illegal, watch for new restrictiverules to be adopted by restaurant owners.
            You mean like RAISING PRICES BY 15% or so?

            Tipping is an asinine custom; greedy employers use it as an excuse to
            pay ridiculous wages to their staff, and, of course, NOBODY reports
            ALL of their tips to the IRS. I won't shed a single tear to see it
            disappear.

            --
            Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip



              --
              Wow! Those grubs at the Golden Horseshoe Saloon are a good deal!
              "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected] m...
              Sep 13, 7:38 AM EDT Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) -- Humberto A. Taveras put his money where his mouth is and ended up arrested, accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties. "They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend." Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant in this resort village Sunday night. He said they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus. Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious. "It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said. Taveras plans to fight the charge. The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts. ---------------------------------------------------------------
              Tips should be earned, not automatic.



              Comment


              • #8
                Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:03:49 GMT, "Just Wondering"
                <[email protected]> wrote:
                Wow! Those grubs at the Golden Horseshoe Saloon are a good deal!"MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] ogle.com...
                Sep 13, 7:38 AM EDT Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) -- Humberto A. Taveras put his money where his mouth is and ended up arrested, accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties. "They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend." Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant in this resort village Sunday night. He said they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus. Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious. "It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said. Taveras plans to fight the charge. The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts. ---------------------------------------------------------------
                Tips should be earned, not automatic.
                I agree with that, and if the tips are MANDATORY, they MUST post it
                where it is visible to everyone. If I saw such a notice posted, I can
                guarantee they would NOT get my business.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                  On 13 Sep 2004 08:38:05 -0700, [email protected] (MrPepper11) wrote:

                  This brings something else to mind. I recently attended a county fair
                  and they had these guys in the restrooms that collected tips for using
                  the toilets. There are signs all over the place that say "How would
                  this restroom look if it was not clean".

                  First, I paid to enter the fair, and the fair should be paying someone
                  to clean the restrooms out of that money.

                  Second, I do not appreciate having beggers in a public restroom

                  Third, I do not appreciate some loser sitting on a stool watching me
                  take a piss in the urinal.

                  Fourth, To make it look like he was cleaning, he had cloth towels
                  draped over every sink in there, so a person could not wash their
                  hands.

                  Needless to say, they did not get a cent out of me, and I washed my
                  hands and soaked the towel. How any loser can sit in the restroom
                  watching people piss during the whole week of the fair, has to be a
                  total loser, and probably ***** to boot.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                    "Dave C." <[email protected]> wrote in misc.consumers:
                    Automatic gratuities are (by definition) not legally enforceable debts.
                    False.

                    If the menu says "18% gratuity will be added to parties of N or
                    more" then that's part of the stated charge. It's a sleazy and
                    annoying practice, but legal.

                    Whether arresting someone is appropriate I couldn't say. If the OP's
                    story is even true (note name of restaurateur), it almost certainly
                    leaves out relevant facts.

                    --
                    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
                    http://OakRoadSystems.com
                    "You want an intelligent conversation? Do what I do: talk to
                    yourself. It's the only way." -- /Torch Song Trilogy/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                      "David Martel" <[email protected]> wrote in misc.consumers:
                      Why they wouldpunish the waitress for the chef's work is not clear.
                      because that's how the tipping system works in this country. Yes,
                      it's irrational.

                      --
                      Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
                      http://OakRoadSystems.com
                      "You want an intelligent conversation? Do what I do: talk to
                      yourself. It's the only way." -- /Torch Song Trilogy/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                        Scott en Aztlan <newsgroup> wrote:
                        Tipping is an asinine custom; greedy employers use it as an excuse topay ridiculous wages to their staff, and, of course, NOBODY reportsALL of their tips to the IRS. I won't shed a single tear to see itdisappear.
                        I would. I have a friend who lives in Europe, where "service" is
                        either included in the price or added on the bill.(*) He says that
                        service here is almost always better, more oriented to the customer's
                        comfort, than in Europe.

                        (*) A tip might be left for better than average service, but it would
                        be the equivalent of $.25-$1, regardless of the cost of the meal.

                        Then again, to argue devil's advocate, I found the service generally
                        good in Japan (in 1975), where tipping was simply _not done_. (In
                        some more informal places, you might buy a drink for yourself and
                        another for the waiter. But that would usually be for a waiter who
                        is almost a "friend" -- one who chats with you about the weather as
                        well as the food.
                        --
                        I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and
                        to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising
                        liberty and justice for all.
                        Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                          "Just Wondering" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<F4u1d.432522$%[email protected]_s01>...
                          -- Wow! Those grubs at the Golden Horseshoe Saloon are a good deal! "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] m...
                          Sep 13, 7:38 AM EDT Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) -- Humberto A. Taveras put his money where his mouth is and ended up arrested, accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties. "They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend." Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant in this resort village Sunday night. He said they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus. Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious. "It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said. Taveras plans to fight the charge. The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts. ---------------------------------------------------------------
                          Tips should be earned, not automatic.
                          You and I know that, Taveras knows that, but does Tony Soprano know that?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                            The charges against Taveras have been dropped. The prosecutor
                            who made the decision to drop the charges confirmed that they
                            were called a "gratuity" on the menu and that if they had
                            instead been called a "service charge," he would have been
                            legally obligated to pay them.

                            Go to news.google.com and seach for Humberto Taveras for more
                            info.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Man Arrested for Leaving Small Tip

                              [email protected] (Jonathan Kamens) wrote in news:ci7q9k$iir$1
                              @jik.kamens.brookline.ma.us:
                              The charges against Taveras have been dropped. The prosecutor who made the decision to drop the charges confirmed that they were called a "gratuity" on the menu and that if they had instead been called a "service charge," he would have been legally obligated to pay them. Go to news.google.com and seach for Humberto Taveras for more info.
                              Yup. I'd have claimed that the statement, "An 18% gratuity will be added
                              for parties of 12 or more," doesn't say anything about being required to
                              pay it. If there's no expectation that a tip is mandatory for parties of
                              less than 12, there's no reason to think it's mandatory for 12 or more. I
                              assume that they add the gratuity as a convenience for people who can't do
                              math with larg numbers :-)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X