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What the %^&*(* Is "Mesne Profits"?

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  • What the %^&*(* Is "Mesne Profits"?

    Hi, our BK 7 was discharged in 4/03 and mortgage holder #2 (actually
    their rep) has sent us a summons. We had made it patently clear that
    we had abandoned the property. There is mention of the Plaintiff
    demanding judgment against the defendants for "damages and mesne
    profits".

    Can someone please explain what a "mesne profit" is? I've tried to do
    a web search but cannot make any sense out of all the legalese that
    turned up.

    Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    What the %^&*(* Is "Mesne Profits"?

    "Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] om...
    Hi, our BK 7 was discharged in 4/03 and mortgage holder #2 (actually their rep) has sent us a summons. We had made it patently clear that we had abandoned the property. There is mention of the Plaintiff demanding judgment against the defendants for "damages and mesne profits". Can someone please explain what a "mesne profit" is? I've tried to do a web search but cannot make any sense out of all the legalese that turned up. Thanks in advance.
    If I'm understanding it correctly as a layperson (hopefully Brett or another
    lawyer can correct me if I'm wrong, or let me know if I'm right!)...plus I
    believe state law affects mesne which still doesn't supercede bankruptcy
    law...

    They're trying to claim money for a time period between when (they probably
    claim) you gave up the property and when they believe you should've given it
    up but weren't making payments. Now, if they're trying to claim the mesne
    period was during the automatic stay I really doubt that would hold in a
    court of law as it wouldn't apply to that period. And if they're claiming
    it's pre-petition that doesn't really fly either because in a Chapter 7 that
    would be wiped out. Particularly if they hadn't filed for a release from
    stay to foreclose. And if they had filed for one and it was denied, then I
    can't see them as having a leg to stand on. (Mesne profits appears to be a
    legalese way of saying arrearages on rent/mortgage.)

    Now, if you stayed in the house beyond the discharge date (or when you
    agreed to forfeit the house) then they may have a case for that time period.
    My understanding is that normally mesne profits are claimed in a
    foreclosure, not a bankruptcy unless the people don't leave after the
    discharge.

    Damages is probably pretty much BS, and I think they probably know that
    unless you just don't show up to court that they wouldn't be likely to get
    it unless any delays were obviously purposeful and meant to defraud them.

    Be sure to discuss this with your lawyer, don't take my thoughts for gospel!
    If they have no right to mesne profits or damages (which I suspect they
    don't) then you'll have one doozy of a violation suit available to you!
    Calling someone and/or sending them bills after discharge is bad enough, a
    summons for a lawsuit is a whole 'nother animal.

    Good luck!
    -Shell


    Comment


    • #3
      What the %^&amp;*(* Is &quot;Mesne Profits&quot;?

      Try this,

      http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m108.htm or

      MESNE - The middle between two extremes, that part between the commencement
      and the end, as it relates to time.

      Hence the profits which a man receives between disseisin and recovery of
      lands are called mesne profits. Process which is issued in a suit between
      the original and final process, is called mesne process.

      In England, the word mesne also applies to a dignity: those persons who hold
      lordships or manors of some superior who is called lord paramount, and grant
      the same to inferior persons, are called mesne lords.

      MESNE PROCESS - Any process issued between original and final process; that
      is, between the original writ and the execution.

      MESNE PROFITS - The value of the premises, recovered in ejectment, during
      the time that the lessor of the plaintiff has been illegally kept out of the
      possession of his estate by the defendant; such are properly recovered by an
      action of trespass, quare clausum fregit, after a recovery in ejectment.

      As a general rule, the plaintiff is entitled to recover for such time as be
      can prove the defendant to have been in possession, provided he does not go
      back beyond six years, for in that case, the defendant may plead the statute
      of limitations.

      The value of improvements made by the defendant, may be set off against a
      claim for mesne profits, but profits before the demise laid, should be first
      deducted from the value of the improvements.

      "Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
      news:[email protected] om...
      Hi, our BK 7 was discharged in 4/03 and mortgage holder #2 (actually their rep) has sent us a summons. We had made it patently clear that we had abandoned the property. There is mention of the Plaintiff demanding judgment against the defendants for "damages and mesne profits". Can someone please explain what a "mesne profit" is? I've tried to do a web search but cannot make any sense out of all the legalese that turned up. Thanks in advance.

      Comment


      • #4
        What the %^&amp;*(* Is &quot;Mesne Profits&quot;?

        Actually, we vacated the house in March, after filing for the BK 7 in
        January. We only have some accumulated junk in there which has to be
        cleaned out but it was abandoned as per the court. We left the
        electric on so that some lights could be kept on, otherwise the place
        would look deserted and open to vandalism. We are still paying the
        small electric for the place but that is only to assure its security.

        This lender is going to get socked with violating the automatic stay
        because during the time of the Bk and before discharge they kept
        sending bills. So they owe us for violations. It's really contempt
        of court on their part and I don't think courts take lightly someone
        who continues to send out bills if they haven't received a release
        from the automatic stay. They have a disclaimer on the bills saying
        it's not an attempt to collect a debt in violation of the stay but a
        bill is a bill is a bill. How dare they place a notation that it's
        not a violation when they haven't been given permission by the court?

        Two can play at this game. I'm hoping the court will be so ticked off
        it will throw their attempt of foreclosure out the window. We'll still
        lose the house but at least the first mortgage holder followed proper
        procedure.

        Still confused about the legalise. I saw that same page the other
        person kindly sent. Still is hard to interpret.

        Thanks very much. You know what they say "don't get mad, get even!".



        "Nunya" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
        "Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
        Hi, our BK 7 was discharged in 4/03 and mortgage holder #2 (actually their rep) has sent us a summons. We had made it patently clear that we had abandoned the property. There is mention of the Plaintiff demanding judgment against the defendants for "damages and mesne profits". Can someone please explain what a "mesne profit" is? I've tried to do a web search but cannot make any sense out of all the legalese that turned up. Thanks in advance.
        If I'm understanding it correctly as a layperson (hopefully Brett or another lawyer can correct me if I'm wrong, or let me know if I'm right!)...plus I believe state law affects mesne which still doesn't supercede bankruptcy law... They're trying to claim money for a time period between when (they probably claim) you gave up the property and when they believe you should've given it up but weren't making payments. Now, if they're trying to claim the mesne period was during the automatic stay I really doubt that would hold in a court of law as it wouldn't apply to that period. And if they're claiming it's pre-petition that doesn't really fly either because in a Chapter 7 that would be wiped out. Particularly if they hadn't filed for a release from stay to foreclose. And if they had filed for one and it was denied, then I can't see them as having a leg to stand on. (Mesne profits appears to be a legalese way of saying arrearages on rent/mortgage.) Now, if you stayed in the house beyond the discharge date (or when you agreed to forfeit the house) then they may have a case for that time period. My understanding is that normally mesne profits are claimed in a foreclosure, not a bankruptcy unless the people don't leave after the discharge. Damages is probably pretty much BS, and I think they probably know that unless you just don't show up to court that they wouldn't be likely to get it unless any delays were obviously purposeful and meant to defraud them. Be sure to discuss this with your lawyer, don't take my thoughts for gospel! If they have no right to mesne profits or damages (which I suspect they don't) then you'll have one doozy of a violation suit available to you! Calling someone and/or sending them bills after discharge is bad enough, a summons for a lawsuit is a whole 'nother animal. Good luck! -Shell

        Comment


        • #5
          What the %^&amp;*(* Is &quot;Mesne Profits&quot;?

          I don't know for sure, but I think the deal is that even though you
          abandoned the property in the bankruptcy, the mortgage holder has to
          foreclose in order to actually get title to the property. Since you
          received a BK 7 was discharge, you are not personally liable for the money
          (including "damages and mesne profits") being sought in the foreclosure
          process. All the mortgage holder will get is legal title and possession of
          the property. Getting legal title and possession of the property is
          separate from the abandonment of the property that you did in the BK 7.

          I am not a lawyer, so this is just my understanding about how this all
          works.

          P.S. About the question of you trying to "punish" the creditors for
          allegedly violating the automatic stay -- I think you should let that go.
          The idea of bankruptcy is to clear the decks and get a fresh start. I am
          sure you had a lot of debts discharged and I would just chalk that up as
          about the best that you can expect. I am not even sure if what you describe
          violates the automatic stay. But, even if it did, life ain't perfect (as
          you already know) and I doubt that it would be worth your time and energy to
          keep pursuing this issue. As far as the Court is concerned, I don't think
          the Court will have any emotional reaction to your claim. Instead, it might
          feel that you had an attorney and any questionable conduct on the part of
          your creditors should have been passed to your attorney at the time, and
          your attorney could have or should have resolved the matter and/or mitigated
          any damages you might have by handling it in a timely manner. I am not
          trying to criticize you in any way. I just think that, for your own sake,
          you should try to let this go and put it completely behind you and move on.
          "Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:[email protected] om...
          Hi, our BK 7 was discharged in 4/03 and mortgage holder #2 (actually their rep) has sent us a summons. We had made it patently clear that we had abandoned the property. There is mention of the Plaintiff demanding judgment against the defendants for "damages and mesne profits". Can someone please explain what a "mesne profit" is? I've tried to do a web search but cannot make any sense out of all the legalese that turned up. Thanks in advance.

          Comment

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