So far this is what we've learned from the cable channels so far on the Kobe
case. Although I'm still waiting for links for confirmation.

There is evidence of another man's semen and pubic hair in her panties.

That the bellboy was NOT the first person she saw. That the night auditor
was and he said there was nothing wrong with her.

There were no injuries or marks on Kobe.

That the accuser's shift was supposed to end at 1600 hours but she wanted to
meet Kobe so badly that she changed her shift to work longer.

And she was the one who assigned the rooms for Kobe and the bodyguards. Gee,
no wonder the bodyguards rooms were assigned on another floor.

And now the detective is saying he's uncertain that she actually said "no"?
And that she was waiting for Kobe to "make a move on her"?

In article <bmk5sq$4sc@dispatch.concentric.net>,
Don Tiberone <weswNOSPAM@concentric.net> wrote:So far this is what we've learned from the cable channels so far on the Kobecase. Although I'm still waiting for links for confirmation.There is evidence of another man's semen and pubic hair in her panties.That the bellboy was NOT the first person she saw. That the night auditorwas and he said there was nothing wrong with her.There were no injuries or marks on Kobe.That the accuser's shift was supposed to end at 1600 hours but she wanted tomeet Kobe so badly that she changed her shift to work longer.And she was the one who assigned the rooms for Kobe and the bodyguards. Gee,no wonder the bodyguards rooms were assigned on another floor.And now the detective is saying he's uncertain that she actually said "no"?And that she was waiting for Kobe to "make a move on her"?


Accuser's going down! Down down down!


Dimitri

"Michael Falkner" <starcade@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:92b07804.0310152149.5687926a@posting.google.c om... "Bo Raxo" wrote... I don't know if Mr. Bryant committed a crime or not,

There is much Bo does not know.
not enough evidence on the table. But this blame the victim bull**** is pretty heinous, in my opinion.

First, neither the prosecutor in Eagle, Colorado nor
you, Bo, a self-appointed one, know if there is even
a "victim". Only after a trial _and_ a finding of guilty
will you know there has been a "victim". Until then,
you're just plopping out more of your cow patties.

In [US] criminal law, the person _claiming_ to be
the victim is _always_ legally disbelieved and the
evidence always cross-examined until the person
being accused is proven guilty beyond a reasonable
doubt.

Warren Farrell, _The Myth of Male Power_.
Why her number or frequency of partners is relevant is beyond reason,

It's "beyond reason" only to the unreasonable. I suggest
you review the claims made by the prosecutor regarding
the evidence the prosecutor has that a "rape!" occurred
(e.g., vaginal injuries, presence of semen, to name
a couple of the most relevant ones) and ask yourself,
"How else might such things have occurred, especially
since the claimed injuries are nearly microscopic and
the semen isn't Mr. Bryant's?"

Take your time, Bo, before answering.
and harkens back to the day when people thought women who cried rape were sluts who were asking for it. My contention is that he's certainly acting guilty -- and so is his lawyers.

So, Michael Faulkner, hiring a competent defense lawyer
is "acting guilty"? You have a lot of explaining to do.

--
"Women never lie about 'rape!'"
-- women's center slogan

Dennis Lewis wrote:
(Hmmm? When you schedule a rape exam, the hospital instructs you to wear the same undies you had on at the time of the alleged incident? One would think they'd tell you to put them in a bag or something to bring them in for testing.)

The implications are even worse: the detective testified that
they tested TWO pair, the yellow pair she wore to the exam
and the pair she had been wearing the previous night. He
testified that the pair she wore to the exam had sperm and
pubic hair. He did NOT testify that anything was found in
the pair she had worn that night. How does this get
explained?


Larry Coon
University of California

The NBA Salary Cap FAQ:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F9D9F35.8080802@hotmail.com... They have no case. They never had a case. The DA ought to be fired for wasting so much of the taxpayer's money and proceeding on a sham of a
case. Bob

D.A.s are elected in most counties, so "firing" them is a nonsensical
concept. Maybe recall them if the election laws permit it.

"D. Gerasimatos" <dim@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:bmk9ia$1g4s$1@agate.berkeley.edu... In article <bmk5sq$4sc@dispatch.concentric.net>, Don Tiberone <weswNOSPAM@concentric.net> wrote:So far this is what we've learned from the cable channels so far on the
Kobecase. Although I'm still waiting for links for confirmation.There is evidence of another man's semen and pubic hair in her panties.That the bellboy was NOT the first person she saw. That the night auditorwas and he said there was nothing wrong with her.There were no injuries or marks on Kobe.That the accuser's shift was supposed to end at 1600 hours but she wanted
tomeet Kobe so badly that she changed her shift to work longer.And she was the one who assigned the rooms for Kobe and the bodyguards.
Gee,no wonder the bodyguards rooms were assigned on another floor.And now the detective is saying he's uncertain that she actually said
"no"?And that she was waiting for Kobe to "make a move on her"? Accuser's going down! Down down down! Dimitri
If she did, how did the semen get in the panties, and not on her chin?

"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:qNljb.2482$s93.492@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net... "njs" <elevation@giveadamn.com> wrote in message news:RHljb.2475$s93.111@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net... Sure! She was "upset" after all. What better comfort, than a little roll in the hay with some other random guy, after you've just been raped? She sounds just nutjobby enough to rationalize it that way. First, have you ever heard of someone wearing a pair of underwear more
than once? The semen could have been deposited there days ago.

Right, small problem, the semen was relatively fresh, and it was not Kobe
Bryant's. Neither was the pubic hair.

Gotta ask you a question Bo....... Think on this a bit. How many women do
you know, who *have* been raped, who run right out and have a consolation
screw with another man? Many, do you think? 90%? How about none!

Now, in your sanctimonious outrage Bo... How do you deal with this testimony
from the detective. The "poor victim" admitted she did not tell Bryant "No"
during the event including when intercourse began. But she also said that
when she finally did ask Bryant to stop, he did. How do we get to reconcile
that Bryant did stop when she asked him to with "rape?" Pay attention Bo.





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"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:ccljb.2434$s93.2289@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net... "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F9D9F35.8080802@hotmail.com... They have no case. They never had a case. The DA ought to be fired for wasting so much of the taxpayer's money and proceeding on a sham of a case. Bob D.A.s are elected in most counties, so "firing" them is a nonsensical concept. Maybe recall them if the election laws permit it.


Tell that to Gray Davis.




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"John Gault" <judgedredd@ij.net> wrote in message
news:3f8e9bba_4@corp.newsgroups.com... "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message news:qNljb.2482$s93.492@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net... "njs" <elevation@giveadamn.com> wrote in message news:RHljb.2475$s93.111@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net... Sure! She was "upset" after all. What better comfort, than a little
roll in the hay with some other random guy, after you've just been raped? She sounds just nutjobby enough to rationalize it that way. First, have you ever heard of someone wearing a pair of underwear more than once? The semen could have been deposited there days ago. Right, small problem, the semen was relatively fresh, and it was not Kobe Bryant's. Neither was the pubic hair. Gotta ask you a question Bo....... Think on this a bit. How many women do you know, who *have* been raped, who run right out and have a consolation screw with another man? Many, do you think? 90%? How about none! Now, in your sanctimonious outrage Bo... How do you deal with this
testimony from the detective. The "poor victim" admitted she did not tell Bryant
"No" during the event including when intercourse began. But she also said that when she finally did ask Bryant to stop, he did. How do we get to
reconcile that Bryant did stop when she asked him to with "rape?" Pay attention Bo.

Yeah, but you're that John Pangborn guy. That other guy says you're the
anti-Christ, Bill Buckner and Steve Bartman all rolled into one giant
jelly-roll of evil, so we can't believe anything you say. lol!

-P

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On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:02:05 -0700, Larry Coon <lcnospam@assist.org>
wrote:
The implications are even worse: the detective testified thatthey tested TWO pair, the yellow pair she wore to the examand the pair she had been wearing the previous night. Hetestified that the pair she wore to the exam had sperm andpubic hair. He did NOT testify that anything was found inthe pair she had worn that night. How does this getexplained?


uh, she wasnt screwed then, but now, she is.

"Wolfie" <bgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote It'd be Glenwood Springs, not Eagle, though. That's the hospital where the kits were run.

Actually, the CBI Western Slope lab is in Grand Junction.
Kobe denied anything had happened until the DNA results came back from the
CBI in the first place. That was a few weeks after the event if memory
serves, and he was proven to be a liar for the second time.
As far as two samples of semen; that simply proves she knows the difference
between consent and not-consent. She didn't complain about the other guy(s)
forcing her.
Kobe Bryant makes his living with a skill controlling a head-sized object by
single hand muscle development. It wouldn't surprise anyone to find out he
could cradle such sized objects absolutely immobile without undue violence.
It probably would have been more definitive if he had done it to Mother
Theresa, but I don't think she ever worked as a concierge in a rich people's
hotel.

Chas

"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:3F8EA9BA.7060203@hotmail.com... Alex wrote:
And I still find it odd (in a "feminsist sister" kind of way odd) that out of the four persons she encountered, she confided the rape to the one single man. CNN was falling all over themselves last night to "prove" that the bellboy was only a "friend" from work. Its the ever changing story.

It would be interesting to see if the semen and hair found
in her panties matches to him.

Alex

"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F8EC09F.6020709@hotmail.com...
The Eagle police and DA are apparently handling this like a bunch of back woods amateurs.

Which is exactly what they are.

-P

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote I don't think I have the two lies wrong though. What is the other lie? This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've heard about Bryant's "3rd story" but I still haven't seen a link to it. AFAIK, he's only lied once.

No; his first story was that nothing had happened at all- then they found
the sample.
Then he admitted that something had happened, but denied being part of it.
After the dna from the sample was proven to be his, he admitted the event,
but claimed it was consensual.
Three stories, two proven lies-
so far.

Chas

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:zNydnSpPybDpbhOiRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
Not when he's a highly trained professional athlete that makes his money
by manipulating a head sized object by the muscular power of one hand.

This is the second time you've said this, and while on the surface it sounds
reasonable, there is a difference between a "head sized object" and a
"head". Namely - Heads weigh more and are attached to struggling bodies.

-P

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote Not when he's a highly trained professional athlete that makes his money by manipulating a head sized object by the muscular power of one hand. This is the second time you've said this, and while on the surface it
sounds reasonable, there is a difference between a "head sized object" and a "head". Namely - Heads weigh more and are attached to struggling bodies.

I'd give odds that Kobe Bryant can control most grown men that way, much
less a woman who's half his size- and never leave a bruise doing it either.
And, if he tucked her chin down, she'd not be able to make other than
muffled sounds as well.
I find her description far more believable, in terms of his use of his
physicality, than if she described him simply tossing her on the bed or some
such. It's precisely what one might expect a professional basketball player
to be able to do with ease.

Chas

Primate wrote: "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F8EC09F.6020709@hotmail.com...The Eagle police and DA are apparently handling this like abunch of back woods amateurs. Which is exactly what they are. -P

Exactly.

Bob

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bmmp9p$oicfm$1@ID-198561.news.uni-berlin.de>... I'm confused. I realize his first lie was saying "You all know I wouldn't do that" when asked whether he had raped her. Then, at his press conference, he admitted that he "committed adultery". That constitutes 1 lie, followed by the truth (as far as we know it to this point). What is the other lie? This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've heard about Bryant's "3rd story" but I still haven't seen a link to it. AFAIK, he's only lied once.

I don't even see the first lie. He said he didn't rape her. That was
his story in the beginning and remains his story now. You can't say
it's a lie unless you presume him guilty, and there doesn't seem to be
enough evidence to do so at this point.....

"Terryo" <yrret@sbcglobal.net> wrote I don't even see the first lie.

He said she wasn't in his room; nothing happened.
He said he didn't rape her.

That's the third story.
That was his story in the beginning and remains his story now. You can't say it's a lie unless you presume him guilty, and there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to do so at this point.....

He lied about her being in his room.
Then he lied and said he didn't deposit the dna sample.
Now we have a third story to consider.

Chas

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:TNidnZjoq4BPmRKiRVn-iQ@comcast.com... "Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote Not when he's a highly trained professional athlete that makes his
money by manipulating a head sized object by the muscular power of one hand. This is the second time you've said this, and while on the surface it sounds reasonable, there is a difference between a "head sized object" and a "head". Namely - Heads weigh more and are attached to struggling
bodies. I'd give odds that Kobe Bryant can control most grown men that way, much less a woman who's half his size- and never leave a bruise doing it
either. And, if he tucked her chin down, she'd not be able to make other than muffled sounds as well.

You're reaching. He might be able to control her, but without injuring her
more than a 2cm bruise? Not a chance in hell, unless she was so afraid for
her life that she simply stood still for the duration - something that is
vastly more believable than your "head control" argument. I would think
that a master in martial arts would know this already.
I find her description far more believable, in terms of his use of his physicality, than if she described him simply tossing her on the bed or
some such. It's precisely what one might expect a professional basketball
player to be able to do with ease.

Again, he might be able to hold her, but he'd leave more than a 2cm bruise
in the process.

-P

p.s. What is the proximity of Aurora to Eagle?


Chas

"Terryo" <yrret@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4f9c406e.0310161328.3795b027@posting.google.c om... "Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bmmp9p$oicfm$1@ID-198561.news.uni-berlin.de>... I'm confused. I realize his first lie was saying "You all know I
wouldn't do that" when asked whether he had raped her. Then, at his press conference, he admitted that he "committed adultery". That constitutes
1 lie, followed by the truth (as far as we know it to this point). What is the other lie? This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've heard about Bryant's "3rd story" but I still haven't seen a link to it. AFAIK, he's only lied once. I don't even see the first lie. He said he didn't rape her. That was his story in the beginning and remains his story now. You can't say it's a lie unless you presume him guilty, and there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to do so at this point.....

The first one was pretty ambiguous, since what he said was "you all know I
would never do something like that"

-P

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote.....I would think that a master in martial arts would know this already.

Actually, I would have absolutely no trouble doing it whatsoever- not a
bruise, not a scratch, no loss of consciousness or anything. In fact, I
believe I could do it without causing any pain except the basic skeletal
control discomfort.
And I can't palm a basketball- nor do I have the control skills of a
professional athlete who specializes in such a thing.
Again, he might be able to hold her, but he'd leave more than a 2cm bruise in the process.

Nah; he could keep her quiet too- with one hand.
p.s. What is the proximity of Aurora to Eagle?

I think it's probably 80 miles or so; West on I-70.
Aurora is a suburb of Metro Denver; close enough to be local news and for me
to know a few of the peripheral players.

Chas

Chas wrote:
"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote p.s. What is the proximity of Aurora to Eagle? I think it's probably 80 miles or so; West on I-70.

Easily a hundred -- I'm 90 miles away, and I'm in the mountains
on the west side of Denver. Eagle is 20 miles to the west of Vail.
Aurora is a suburb of Metro Denver; close enough to be local news and for me to know a few of the peripheral players.

x-no-archive: yes

"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOF@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:3f8ee844$0$2712$1b62eedf@news.euronet.nl... "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:3F8EA9BA.7060203@hotmail.com... Alex wrote: And I still find it odd (in a "feminsist sister" kind of way odd) that out of the four persons she encountered, she confided the rape to the one single man. CNN was falling all over themselves last night to "prove" that the bellboy was only a "friend" from work. Its the ever changing story. It would be interesting to see if the semen and hair found in her panties matches to him. Alex

We probably won't be told who it was since no one else is on trial.

Larry Coon <lmcoon@nospam_cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F8F8FD1.709D@nospam_cox.net...
Remember that he first denied any event had taken place. I've asked for cites of this multiple times, but haven't seen them yet. Seriously, I'm not trying to be disingenuous with this request. A lot has been rumored that later turned out to be BS, and I'd really like to see if this is one of those things. Then he denied that the sample obtained was his. Again, cite?

He's been repeating the same thing over the past couple months and has never
cited his source when asked.

However, I do recall that he saw it on one of his local stations in Denver
somewhere.

Which means he also believes the stories about her needing 6 stitches and
that there was a handprint on her neck.

Ken Smith wrote:
Chas wrote: "Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote
p.s. What is the proximity of Aurora to Eagle?
I think it's probably 80 miles or so; West on I-70.
Easily a hundred -- I'm 90 miles away, and I'm in the mountains on the west side of Denver. Eagle is 20 miles to the west of Vail.
Aurora is a suburb of Metro Denver; close enough to be local news and for me to know a few of the peripheral players.

About 135 miles. Eagle is at milepost 147 of I-70. Aurora is just off I-225
a couple of miles south of its junction with I-70 at milepost 281. In
between is some of the steepest mountain road to be found anywhere in the
U.S., reaching up to above the 11,000 foot level.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:EbmdnRzkLfU8_xKiRVn-tA@comcast.com... "Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote.....I would think that a master in martial arts would know this already. Actually, I would have absolutely no trouble doing it whatsoever- not a bruise, not a scratch, no loss of consciousness or anything. In fact, I believe I could do it without causing any pain except the basic skeletal control discomfort. And I can't palm a basketball- nor do I have the control skills of a professional athlete who specializes in such a thing.

If she didn't struggle (and we're assuming in this argument that she did not
give consent, something that still is unclear), then I could see there being
no damage. That's the only way. From what we've heard though, he held her
by the neck, not the head. Necks bruise easy. No neck bruises.

-P


Again, he might be able to hold her, but he'd leave more than a 2cm
bruise in the process. Nah; he could keep her quiet too- with one hand. p.s. What is the proximity of Aurora to Eagle? I think it's probably 80 miles or so; West on I-70. Aurora is a suburb of Metro Denver; close enough to be local news and for
me to know a few of the peripheral players. Chas

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:99idnZPY5bQKYhKiRVn-vg@comcast.com... "Larry Coon" <lmcoon@nospam_cox.net> wrote
What I saw was reported at the beginning of the controversy. There has
been so much reported, in every venue, that finding a 'cite' is virtually impossible. You either have followed the story or you haven't.

A lot of the stuff that was reported at the beginning of the controversy was
eventually discovered to be untrue. I believe the denial you are referring
to is one of those things. I've been looking into this "3 stories" tale of
yours, and I can't find anything that proves it out. FYI - the first denial
is not the one at issue here, it's the second, where he denied the sample
was his. You're either misremembering it or you're making it up. I'm going
with the former, you don't seem like a dishonest guy.
First, it's not a question of what's more probable. Why? It's the same question you're raising about the accuser. So are you using personal experience in your assessment that it's unlikely that it COULD happen? I'm prepared for testimony and evidence that monkeys flew out of his butt- but none has surfaced so far.

Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind. I hope they didn't call
you for jury selection.

-P

Chas

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote If she didn't struggle (and we're assuming in this argument that she did
not give consent, something that still is unclear), then I could see there
being no damage. That's the only way. From what we've heard though, he held
her by the neck, not the head. Necks bruise easy. No neck bruises.

The man is a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier. He is a trained and
conditioned professional athlete- with a specific hand skill useful in the
scenario which has been presented.
It's not only *possible* that he was able to control her without extensive
bruising- it's *easy*.

Chas

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote .......FYI - the first denial is not the one at issue here, it's the second, where he denied the sample was his. You're either misremembering it or you're making it up. I'm
going with the former, you don't seem like a dishonest guy.

Well, I thank you for that.
I don't believe I misremember- and I'm certainly not making it up.
When the event was first investigated, I remember that Kobe's people denied
that any event had taken place at all. Shortly after that, the specimen
turned up, and it was denied that it was Bryant's. After that, the dna
proved it was Kobe's, and the admission of 'adultery' was made.
That's how I remember the progression of events.
Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind. I hope they didn't
call you for jury selection.

I'm not in that pool of possible jurors, so I feel free to comment as I
choose to. There seems no dearth of Kobe supporters, and they certainly have
no reservations about trashing the accuser, so it isn't like it's a
one-sided discussion.

Chas

dim@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (D. Gerasimatos) wrote in message news:<bmk9ia$1g4s$1@agate.berkeley.edu>... In article <bmk5sq$4sc@dispatch.concentric.net>, Don Tiberone <weswNOSPAM@concentric.net> wrote:So far this is what we've learned from the cable channels so far on the Kobecase. Although I'm still waiting for links for confirmation.There is evidence of another man's semen and pubic hair in her panties.That the bellboy was NOT the first person she saw. That the night auditorwas and he said there was nothing wrong with her.There were no injuries or marks on Kobe.That the accuser's shift was supposed to end at 1600 hours but she wanted tomeet Kobe so badly that she changed her shift to work longer.And she was the one who assigned the rooms for Kobe and the bodyguards. Gee,no wonder the bodyguards rooms were assigned on another floor.And now the detective is saying he's uncertain that she actually said "no"?And that she was waiting for Kobe to "make a move on her"? Accuser's going down! Down down down!
^^^^^^^
You misspelled KATE FARBER.

Dimitri

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message news:<fOGdnTrpbOqxXhOiRVn-sw@comcast.com>... "Wolfie" <bgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote It'd be Glenwood Springs, not Eagle, though. That's the hospital where the kits were run. Actually, the CBI Western Slope lab is in Grand Junction. Kobe denied anything had happened until the DNA results came back from the CBI in the first place. That was a few weeks after the event if memory serves, and he was proven to be a liar for the second time. As far as two samples of semen; that simply proves she knows the difference between consent and not-consent. She didn't complain about the other guy(s) forcing her.

The other guy(s) don't have multi-million-dollar per year NBA salaries
to glom onto in civil court after a successful rape-charge frame-up.

"Wolfie" <bgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message news:<cxCjb.66667$Pd.1337382@twister.tampabay.rr.com>... "Primate" wrote I'm confused. You're not the only one. I realize his first lie was saying "You all know I wouldn't do that" when asked whether he had raped her. Then, at his press conference, he admitted that he "committed adultery". That constitutes 1 lie, followed by the truth (as far as we know it to this point). We're not talking about public statements but those to the police interviewers. People are under no obligation to tell the media the truth. If they lie to the media, the worst that happens is the media finds out and says "Hey, he lied." People aren't under any obligation to tell the police the truth either, of course (nor are the police under any obligation to tell you the truth.) The difference is when you lie to the police it can be used against you at trial as evidence of guilt.

She made a complaint. A complaint requires a sworn statement.
A sworn statement carries with it prosecution for perjury if
shown to be deliberately false.

The people of Eagle County should be calling for HER head on a platter.

Magic Nose Goblin wrote: "Wolfie" <bgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message news:<cxCjb.66667$Pd.1337382@twister.tampabay.rr.com>..."Primate" wroteI'm confused.You're not the only one.I realize his first lie was saying "You all know I wouldn'tdo that" when asked whether he had raped her. Then, at his pressconference, he admitted that he "committed adultery". That constitutes 1lie, followed by the truth (as far as we know it to this point).We're not talking about public statements but those to thepolice interviewers. People are under no obligation to tellthe media the truth. If they lie to the media, the worst thathappens is the media finds out and says "Hey, he lied."People aren't under any obligation to tell the police the trutheither, of course (nor are the police under any obligation to tellyou the truth.) The difference is when you lie to the policeit can be used against you at trial as evidence of guilt. She made a complaint. A complaint requires a sworn statement. A sworn statement carries with it prosecution for perjury if shown to be deliberately false. The people of Eagle County should be calling for HER head on a platter.

The penalty for an unproved accusation ought to be the same as the
accused would receive if the accusation were proven -- for the accuser
if that's a witness and/or the DA.

If they can't prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt they have no
right making the public accusation, and ought to bear a serious penalty
for doing so.

Bob

"Magic Nose Goblin" <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote When someone flashes a large wad of cash in a slum...and he gets mugged, then hell yes, I blame the victim.

So, Kobe is like a slum and the accuser is like someone who flashes a wad of
cash in front of a bum?
It's ok to rob someone if he's stupid enough to own a bank?
I'm not quite understanding your point yet, Mr. Gobbler.
Yes, I blame the seductress CLAIMING to be a "victim"

As opposed to the egocentric NBA player who assumes that any woman he wants
is his for the taking, and any woman dumb enough to come to his room
deserves whatever he decides to do to her?
I mean; there are enough hyperbolic theatrical personalities floating around
for everybody to get to wear one.

Chas

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:bmp6va$p92cu$1@ID-198561.news.uni-berlin.de...
Interesting. What I remember is that she came forward and claimed to have been raped. Kobe told the press "you all know I would never do something like that".

"That" being rape.

Alex

Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F9061EA.3050200@hotmail.com>... Magic Nose Goblin wrote: "Wolfie" <bgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message news:<cxCjb.66667$Pd.1337382@twister.tampabay.rr.com>..."Primate" wrote>I'm confused.You're not the only one.>I realize his first lie was saying "You all know I wouldn't>do that" when asked whether he had raped her. Then, at his press>conference, he admitted that he "committed adultery". That constitutes 1>lie, followed by the truth (as far as we know it to this point).We're not talking about public statements but those to thepolice interviewers. People are under no obligation to tellthe media the truth. If they lie to the media, the worst thathappens is the media finds out and says "Hey, he lied."People aren't under any obligation to tell the police the trutheither, of course (nor are the police under any obligation to tellyou the truth.) The difference is when you lie to the policeit can be used against you at trial as evidence of guilt. She made a complaint. A complaint requires a sworn statement. A sworn statement carries with it prosecution for perjury if shown to be deliberately false. The people of Eagle County should be calling for HER head on a platter. The penalty for an unproved accusation ought to be the same as the accused would receive if the accusation were proven -- for the accuser if that's a witness and/or the DA.

I'm not sure about an unproven accusation...but one that is PROVEABLY FALSE
such as this one...should DEFINITELY be prosecuted.

And not merely for the same penalty which the accused would have recieved
if convicted. No...the stakes should be MUCH higher than that.
Like 2x to 3x. what the accused would have recieved.

If they can't prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt they have no right making the public accusation, and ought to bear a serious penalty for doing so. Bob

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message news:<GKOdnWwxlYGI-A2iRVn-gg@comcast.com>... "Magic Nose Goblin" <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote When someone flashes a large wad of cash in a slum...and he gets mugged, then hell yes, I blame the victim. So, Kobe is like a slum and the accuser is like someone who flashes a wad of cash in front of a bum? It's ok to rob someone if he's stupid enough to own a bank? I'm not quite understanding your point yet, Mr. Gobbler. Yes, I blame the seductress CLAIMING to be a "victim" As opposed to the egocentric NBA player who assumes that any woman he wants is his for the taking, and any woman dumb enough to come to his room deserves whatever he decides to do to her? I mean; there are enough hyperbolic theatrical personalities floating around for everybody to get to wear one.

Chas, old idiot... it's considered good form to refrain from drinking before
stumbling into a library to post your drivel.

Chas

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message news:<GKOdnWwxlYGI-A2iRVn-gg@comcast.com>... "Magic Nose Goblin" <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote When someone flashes a large wad of cash in a slum...and he gets mugged, then hell yes, I blame the victim. So, Kobe is like a slum and the accuser is like someone who flashes a wad of cash in front of a bum? It's ok to rob someone if he's stupid enough to own a bank? I'm not quite understanding your point yet, Mr. Gobbler.

Probably because you drank two whole fifths of Thunderbird before dragging
into the public library to post your drivel.

"nonsensname" <520065863424-0001@t-online.de> wrote Could someone explain the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" as opposed to "prove your innocence" in a few simple words please?

Have someone explain to you that 'presumed innocent' is only applicable in a
court of law- nothing to do with the public discourse. In point of fact,
considering the exclusionary rule, evidence that is denied to the jury may
well be known to the public.
Add the fact that Kobe´s first "lie" was what you "remember" "Kobe´s
people" said.

If you are represented by an agent, his lie is your lie.

Chas

Chas <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:gq6dnZVBFeCmsQ6iRVn-sw@comcast.com...
Add the fact that Kobe´s first "lie" was what you "remember" "Kobe´s people" said. If you are represented by an agent, his lie is your lie.

So you finally admit that the accuser has lied?

"Don Tiberone" <weswNOSPAM@concentric.net> wrote Add the fact that Kobe´s first "lie" was what you "remember" "Kobe´s people" said. If you are represented by an agent, his lie is your lie. So you finally admit that the accuser has lied?

Interesting interpretation.
Care to share the logical process by which you arrived at it?

Chas

In article <a0133f8d.0310191441.1de5bd18@posting.google.com>,
Magic Nose Goblin <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote:I'm not sure about an unproven accusation...but one that is PROVEABLY FALSEsuch as this one...should DEFINITELY be prosecuted.

OK, let's say you're the prosecuting attorney. Let's hear your
argument to the jury.

Chas <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:WoidnSRD6cl03w6iRVn-gg@comcast.com... "Don Tiberone" <weswNOSPAM@concentric.net> wrote > Add the fact that Kobe´s first "lie" was what you "remember" "Kobe´s people" > said. If you are represented by an agent, his lie is your lie. So you finally admit that the accuser has lied? Interesting interpretation. Care to share the logical process by which you arrived at it?

If "Kobe's people" lying = Kobe lying, then Kate's people lying = Kate
lying.

tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote in message news:<bmviqk$rbp@rac1.wam.umd.edu>... In article <a0133f8d.0310191441.1de5bd18@posting.google.com>, Magic Nose Goblin <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote:I'm not sure about an unproven accusation...but one that is PROVEABLY FALSEsuch as this one...should DEFINITELY be prosecuted. OK, let's say you're the prosecuting attorney. Let's hear your argument to the jury.

The complainant has given SIGNIFICANTLY contradictory testimony.
The complainant's story is belied by the testimony of other witnesses
The complainant's story is belied by her own actions
The complainant's story is belied by the physical evidence.

Therefore, the complainant shall be found guilty of perjury and making
false police reports, and, for bringing before the court a case which
any REASONABLE person with access to the police investigation, can tell
is utterly without merit, the DA shall be imprisoned for malicious
prosecution of an innocent citizen.

In article <a0133f8d.0310200340.1ecd6d51@posting.google.com>,
Magic Nose Goblin <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote:tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote in message news:<bmviqk$rbp@rac1.wam.umd.edu>... In article <a0133f8d.0310191441.1de5bd18@posting.google.com>, Magic Nose Goblin <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote:I'm not sure about an unproven accusation...but one that is PROVEABLY FALSEsuch as this one...should DEFINITELY be prosecuted. OK, let's say you're the prosecuting attorney. Let's hear your argument to the jury.The complainant has given SIGNIFICANTLY contradictory testimony.The complainant's story is belied by the testimony of other witnessesThe complainant's story is belied by her own actionsThe complainant's story is belied by the physical evidence.

You're going to need to be more specific than that.

Larry Coon wrote: Chas wrote: (snipped) Likewise, you have no trouble with any rationalization that supports your side. (Paraphrasing) "Sure, he would have no trouble at all controlling her from the neck without leaving a mark. He makes his living controlling head-sized objects, after all."

Wow, I had no idea she had such a big head!

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard@yahoo.com

"Many believe that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Yeah, like
*that's* true." -- Rob Simpson

"Don Tiberone" <weswNOSPAM@concentric.net> wrote If "Kobe's people" lying = Kobe lying, then Kate's people lying = Kate lying.

Who are the accuser's 'people'?
Does she have publicists, an entourage, a huge association of business
interests needing to be safeguarded?
No one has spoken on her behalf- except on their own initiative, if at all.

Chas

Michael Thal wrote: Bob, What's up with your computer clock? Your posts are way ahead of real-time. Mt

Sorry,
Somehow it got off by a digit a couple of days ago. It has been fixed.

Bob

Chas wrote

"If you are represented by an agent, his lie is your lie."

Excellent point.

-----
have a GREAT day !!!!!
Solar

"Magic Nose Goblin" <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wroteThe complainant has given SIGNIFICANTLY contradictory testimony.The complainant's story is belied by the testimony of other witnessesThe complainant's story is belied by her own actionsThe complainant's story is belied by the physical evidence. It's ALL been discussed RIGHT IN THESE NEWSGROUPS, you moron.

didn't seem to be enough for the judge to drop all charges- eight pages of
why the trial should go forward.

Chas

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:24:02 -0600, Chas wrote:
"Magic Nose Goblin" <magicnosegob@yahoo.com> wrote >The complainant has given SIGNIFICANTLY contradictory testimony. >The complainant's story is belied by the testimony of other witnesses >The complainant's story is belied by her own actions >The complainant's story is belied by the physical evidence. It's ALL been discussed RIGHT IN THESE NEWSGROUPS, you moron. didn't seem to be enough for the judge to drop all charges- eight pages of why the trial should go forward. Chas

Everyone knows it takes very little evidence to get the trial to move
foward in CO.

"wd" <root@localhost.localdomain> wrote didn't seem to be enough for the judge to drop all charges- eight pages
of why the trial should go forward. Everyone knows it takes very little evidence to get the trial to move foward in CO.

Don't tell me, buddy; tell the NBA.

Chas

Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F943BDE.7030102@hotmail.com>... Michael Thal wrote: Bob, What's up with your computer clock? Your posts are way ahead of real-time. Mt Sorry, Somehow it got off by a digit a couple of days ago.
\> Bob

My wife got off by a digit a couple of nights ago.....

Larry Coon wrote:
Now we have her story -- again, let's concentrate on the supposed lack of consent, without which you do not have rape. She supposedly said "no" multiple times, but the detective's notes include the fact that he had to ask her why she never said "no." So when DID she make it clear that it was non- consensual? And what happened then? According to what I read from the questioning, when she DID make it clear that she wanted him to stop, HE DID. This is all from the detective's own testimony, which came from his own interviews with the accusor. So where is the lack of consent that is required for rape?

I've been wondering about this point. So, as you (or any other reader)
understand it from testimony, did Kobe even ejaculate?

Chas wrote:
"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wroteNot when he's a highly trained professional athlete that makes his moneybymanipulating a head sized object by the muscular power of one hand.This is the second time you've said this, and while on the surface it soundsreasonable, there is a difference between a "head sized object" and a"head". Namely - Heads weigh more and are attached to struggling bodies. I'd give odds that Kobe Bryant can control most grown men that way, much less a woman who's half his size- and never leave a bruise doing it either. And, if he tucked her chin down, she'd not be able to make other than muffled sounds as well.

Yet for all this sheer power you are implying, this little woman half
his size is able to remove his hand against his will?

"Miguelito" <MickBarr@juno.com> wrote Yet for all this sheer power you are implying, this little woman half his size is able to remove his hand against his will?

Gee, buddy; at some point he either has to kill her or let her go with a
warning- ya know?

Chas

Michael Falkner wrote:
Miguelito <MickBarr@juno.com> wrote in message news:<vosp0vjqd5l80c@corp.supernews.com>... This case has virtually no comparison to the Tyson case. There wasfar more grounds on which to convict Tyson. However, the fact thatDesiree Washington went up to his room willingly at that hour didn'thelp her case. But it didn't stop her from getting the conviction on Tyson.

Because Tyson is a brute. He's a psychopath with a long history of
violent behavior and with a criminal record. When he took the stand, he
pretty much convicted himself.


Or is it just because Kobe is the gleaming example of the glorifiable Black Man in this country as the basketball stud he is portrayed to be while Tyson is a certifiable lunatic that Kobe will get off where Tyson could not??

Character testimony will be only one item heavily in Bryant's favor.

Chas wrote: Any particular reason you slander her name?

She's entitled to some equal time.

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:UKOdne3ZXL8n3wqiRVn-jg@comcast.com...
No; I did not personally witness the lie, but rely on the conscientious reportage of our trusted media.

Oh man. Now I KNOW Chas is just trolling. Nice work Chas.

-P

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote I'm telling you Chas, the story as you remember it does not exist. I
looked for a cite, there isn't one. No media outlet reported what you are
clinging to as your story here. None.

Ok- I concede.
Which lie was it he didn't tell? The one about there not being any event at
all, or that there was an event and he wasn't in it?

Chas

"Chas" <chas@chasclements.com> wrote in message
news:16ydnY0ACo38zAWiRVn-tw@comcast.com... "Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote I'm telling you Chas, the story as you remember it does not exist. I looked for a cite, there isn't one. No media outlet reported what you are clinging to as your story here. None. Ok- I concede. Which lie was it he didn't tell? The one about there not being any event
at all, or that there was an event and he wasn't in it?

The second one. I can't find a reference to it anywhere.

-P

Chas

"Primate" <Chick_Hearn_Rules@Yahoo.com> wrote Ok- I concede. Which lie was it he didn't tell? The one about there not being any event at all, or that there was an event and he wasn't in it? The second one. I can't find a reference to it anywhere.

Look at the period of time between the first test at the hospital in
Glenwood Springs, where they found the 'sample', and about two weeks later
when the CBI lab in Grand Junction identified the donor.
That was the period in which the story was that it was a member of his
entourage that was the participant, not Bryant.
There was no admission of 'adultery' until the specimen was proven to be
his. Of course, that admission was in lieu of admitting rape, so it wasn't
necessary until Bryant was proven the donor.
But, it may well be another one of those stories that was published in the
first flurry of speculation and reporting from a broad range of sources.
It's not like it's graven in stone or anything.
--
Chas
'It's Fighting, not Folkdancing!'
http://65.109.93.36/index.htm
http://www.kuntaosilat.net
http://www.kuntaosilat.com/silatknifefighting.htm

Don Tiberone wrote: So far this is what we've learned from the cable channels so far on the Kobe case. Although I'm still waiting for links for confirmation. There is evidence of another man's semen and pubic hair in her panties. That the bellboy was NOT the first person she saw. That the night auditor was and he said there was nothing wrong with her. There were no injuries or marks on Kobe. That the accuser's shift was supposed to end at 1600 hours but she wanted to meet Kobe so badly that she changed her shift to work longer. And she was the one who assigned the rooms for Kobe and the bodyguards. Gee, no wonder the bodyguards rooms were assigned on another floor. And now the detective is saying he's uncertain that she actually said "no"? And that she was waiting for Kobe to "make a move on her"?

The more the DA opens his mouth, the more he looks like a jackass.
You can't beat Seabiscuit with a hairy mule.

The judge ought to toss the whole case out.

Bob