I decide to visit my favorite store (large chain) and get some advertised stuff
at a great price (free after rebate, actually). I walked around the store,
picked up some of the items but some of the stuff were sold-out. So, I decided
to try another location. Since I already had some items in hand, I put them
back in their proper aisle. As I was walking away, a store employee screams at
me, I turn back and she shoves an empty box in my face and accuses me of
shoplifting!

She calls her manager over and he comes running. He immediately starts to
threaten me. He says "give it back or I'm calling the sheriff." I was
flabbergasted to say the least. I, of course, had no idea what they were
talking about, since I hadn't stolen it. But to no avail, the manager and the
employees continued threatening me. I gave them permission to search me, but
they wouldn't. Nonetheless, I took everything out of my pockets and showed them
empty pockets. Then they said "where'd you put it? give it back!" I kept
telling them they had the wrong guy. After 15 minutes of this nonsense, they
finally told me I could leave and to never come back again. They banned me from
my favorite store.

Now the question, can I sue and what are the likelihood of an attorney taking
this case? What are the chances of winning or settling out of court? I feel
that they had no right to hold me against my will and then embarrass me in
front of other shoppers, who probably think I'm a thief. They could easily have
checked the surveillance and saw that I had nothing to do with it. But no, they
just kept yelling and threatening.


U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..."

Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."

I'm certainly not going to encourage you to sue, and I have no idea what
state you are in. But, I can tell you that people have won lawsuits against
stores with circumstances similar to what you represent here.

Retailers who make accusations about shoplifting should not do so within
earshot of other customers. If they make a false accusation, it amounts to
slander in many cases.

There are other things in your account that are poor practices on the part
of the retailer.

Whether or not you can find an attorney to accept this on a contingency
basis, I have no idea. Unless there is more to your story, you appear to
have a strong set of circumstances supporting your side of the case.

As far as banning you from the store, even if you hadn't stolen items, they
would still be able to do that since you have no right to be able to shop at
a particular store. They could pick customers at random and ban them as
long as they were not singling people out based upon some illegal
discriminatory standard.

Tony

"DrPimpDadi" <drpimpdadi@cs.comBush4Oil> wrote in message
news:20030816153523.06821.00000695@mb-m03.news.cs.com... I decide to visit my favorite store (large chain) and get some advertised
stuff at a great price (free after rebate, actually). I walked around the store, picked up some of the items but some of the stuff were sold-out. So, I
decided to try another location. Since I already had some items in hand, I put
them back in their proper aisle. As I was walking away, a store employee
screams at me, I turn back and she shoves an empty box in my face and accuses me of shoplifting! She calls her manager over and he comes running. He immediately starts to threaten me. He says "give it back or I'm calling the sheriff." I was flabbergasted to say the least. I, of course, had no idea what they were talking about, since I hadn't stolen it. But to no avail, the manager and
the employees continued threatening me. I gave them permission to search me,
but they wouldn't. Nonetheless, I took everything out of my pockets and showed
them empty pockets. Then they said "where'd you put it? give it back!" I kept telling them they had the wrong guy. After 15 minutes of this nonsense,
they finally told me I could leave and to never come back again. They banned me
from my favorite store. Now the question, can I sue and what are the likelihood of an attorney
taking this case? What are the chances of winning or settling out of court? I
feel that they had no right to hold me against my will and then embarrass me in front of other shoppers, who probably think I'm a thief. They could easily
have checked the surveillance and saw that I had nothing to do with it. But no,
they just kept yelling and threatening. U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..." Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."

>I'm certainly not going to encourage you to sue, and I have no idea whatstate you are in. But, I can tell you that people have won lawsuits againststores with circumstances similar to what you represent here.

I am in CA. In the cases you mentioned, were they all arrested due to the false
allegations? Or did they win even though they weren't?

Retailers who make accusations about shoplifting should not do so withinearshot of other customers. If they make a false accusation, it amounts toslander in many cases.

I guess its my word vs. theirs... but is there something I could do, like have
the security video subpoena'd or sumtin so the evidence isn't erased?

Should I call the police and make out a report?

There are other things in your account that are poor practices on the partof the retailer.

Yes, they were treating me like a criminal, even though they had no proof.
Whether or not you can find an attorney to accept this on a contingencybasis, I have no idea. Unless there is more to your story, you appear tohave a strong set of circumstances supporting your side of the case.

More to my story? Such as?

As far as banning you from the store, even if you hadn't stolen items, theywould still be able to do that since you have no right to be able to shop ata particular store. They could pick customers at random and ban them aslong as they were not singling people out based upon some illegaldiscriminatory standard.

I guess so. But what pisses me off is that they have the nerve to ban me after
embarrassing me, even though they had no proof.


Tony"DrPimpDadi" <drpimpdadi@cs.comBush4Oil> wrote in messagenews:20030816153523.06821.00000695@mb-m03.news.cs.com... I decide to visit my favorite store (large chain) and get some advertisedstuff at a great price (free after rebate, actually). I walked around the store, picked up some of the items but some of the stuff were sold-out. So, Idecided to try another location. Since I already had some items in hand, I putthem back in their proper aisle. As I was walking away, a store employeescreams at me, I turn back and she shoves an empty box in my face and accuses me of shoplifting! She calls her manager over and he comes running. He immediately starts to threaten me. He says "give it back or I'm calling the sheriff." I was flabbergasted to say the least. I, of course, had no idea what they were talking about, since I hadn't stolen it. But to no avail, the manager andthe employees continued threatening me. I gave them permission to search me,but they wouldn't. Nonetheless, I took everything out of my pockets and showedthem empty pockets. Then they said "where'd you put it? give it back!" I kept telling them they had the wrong guy. After 15 minutes of this nonsense,they finally told me I could leave and to never come back again. They banned mefrom my favorite store. Now the question, can I sue and what are the likelihood of an attorneytaking this case? What are the chances of winning or settling out of court? Ifeel that they had no right to hold me against my will and then embarrass me in front of other shoppers, who probably think I'm a thief. They could easilyhave checked the surveillance and saw that I had nothing to do with it. But no,they just kept yelling and threatening. U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..." Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."



U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..."

Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."

DrPimpDadi wrote:>>
I decide to visit my favorite store (large chain) and get some advertised stuff at a great price (free after rebate, actually). I walked around the store, picked up some of the items but some of the stuff were sold-out. So, I decided to try another location. Since I already had some items in hand, I put them back in their proper aisle. As I was walking away, a store employee screams at me, I turn back and she shoves an empty box in my face and accuses me of shoplifting!
She calls her manager over and he comes running. He immediately starts to threaten me. He says "give it back or I'm calling the sheriff." I was flabbergasted to say the least. I, of course, had no idea what they were talking about, since I hadn't stolen it. But to no avail, the manager and the employees continued threatening me. I gave them permission to search me, but they wouldn't. Nonetheless, I took everything out of my pockets and showed them empty pockets. Then they said "where'd you put it? give it back!" I kept telling them they had the wrong guy. After 15 minutes of this nonsense, they finally told me I could leave and to never come back again. They banned me from my favorite store.
Now the question, can I sue and what are the likelihood of an attorney taking this case? What are the chances of winning or settling out of court? I feel that they had no right to hold me against my will and then embarrass me in front of other shoppers, who probably think I'm a thief. They could easily have checked the surveillance and saw that I had nothing to do with it. But no, they just kept yelling and threatening.

U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..."
Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."

You should have immediately called the police and pressed charges.
Shoving the box in your face is technically assault and battery.
Being falsely accused of shoplifting and being banned is harsh and brash.

I would definitely make the bastard have his say in court.
Then he can worry about keeping his job.
You should also write to the owner of the store a complete description of
the incident.
The store employee had no business confronting you in that manner. Her job
is to immediately notify the manager or security and let them handle it. As
you are still in the store, shoplifting at this point can be a hell of a
thing to prove unless the employee can positively say you were seen putting
the item in your pocket.
As I worked security for a number of years, shoplifting has to involve a few
things before it is shoplifting. Merely looking at something, carrying it
around openly, then putting it back, as you did, is not shoplifting.
You must have the full intent of theft to begin with. If you attempt to exit
the store without making any effort to pay, that is shoplifting. You do not
need to be outside of the store to be detained.
Once detained, you are being held against your will by a person who is not
an officer of the law.
You have the right to leave at any time. If they keep you from leaving, you
can file charges against them.

In your case, the employee was wrong for over reacting, the manager was
wrong for being beligerant towards you and making accusations and threats of
arrest.

By all means, give it a shot and file a suit.

Oh and don't worry about the banning from the store, if you want to go back
in for some strange reason, do so. You have every legal right to be there
during business hours.

DrPimpDadi wrote:>>
I'm certainly not going to encourage you to sue, and I have no idea whatstate you are in. But, I can tell you that people have won lawsuitsagainst stores with circumstances similar to what you represent here.
I am in CA. In the cases you mentioned, were they all arrested due to the false allegations? Or did they win even though they weren't?

Retailers who make accusations about shoplifting should not do so withinearshot of other customers. If they make a false accusation, it amountsto slander in many cases.
I guess its my word vs. theirs... but is there something I could do, like have the security video subpoena'd or sumtin so the evidence isn't erased?

Chances are it's been used over again. They don't hold tapes unless the
manager requests it.
Should I call the police and make out a report?

How long ago was it? If within the past two days, yes. File a report. False
detention and assault.
There are other things in your account that are poor practices on thepart of the retailer.
Yes, they were treating me like a criminal, even though they had no proof.

Untrained people will. They feel because they are in charge, they can do any
damn thing they please.

Whether or not you can find an attorney to accept this on a contingencybasis, I have no idea. Unless there is more to your story, you appear tohave a strong set of circumstances supporting your side of the case.
More to my story? Such as?

What you've said here is enough to lay the groundwork for a suit.
As far as banning you from the store, even if you hadn't stolen items,they would still be able to do that since you have no right to be able to shop at a particular store. They could pick customers at random and ban them as long as they were not singling people out based upon some illegal discriminatory standard.
I guess so. But what pisses me off is that they have the nerve to ban me after embarrassing me, even though they had no proof.

Not necessarily. California laws are very peculiar. The business is open to
the public, I am the public.
What's he gonna do? Charge me with trespassing? Ok fine. When I see the
judge I'll explain why I was arrested for trespassing. Do you think the
judge is gonna be so kind to the manager then? Find out precisely what
trespassing laws are in california. Fore warned is fore armed as they say.


Tony"DrPimpDadi" <drpimpdadi@cs.comBush4Oil> wrote in messagenews:20030816153523.06821.00000695@mb-m03.news.cs.com... I decide to visit my favorite store (large chain) and get some advertisedstuff at a great price (free after rebate, actually). I walked around the store, picked up some of the items but some of the stuff were sold-out.So, Idecided to try another location. Since I already had some items in hand, I putthem back in their proper aisle. As I was walking away, a store employeescreams at me, I turn back and she shoves an empty box in my face and accuses me of shoplifting! She calls her manager over and he comes running. Heimmediately starts to threaten me. He says "give it back or I'm callingthe sheriff." I was flabbergasted to say the least. I, of course, had noidea what they were talking about, since I hadn't stolen it. But to noavail, the manager andthe employees continued threatening me. I gave them permission to search me,but they wouldn't. Nonetheless, I took everything out of my pockets and showedthem empty pockets. Then they said "where'd you put it? give it back!" I kept telling them they had the wrong guy. After 15 minutes of thisnonsense,they finally told me I could leave and to never come back again. They banned mefrom my favorite store. Now the question, can I sue and what are the likelihood of an attorneytaking this case? What are the chances of winning or settling out of court? Ifeel that they had no right to hold me against my will and then embarrass me in front of other shoppers, who probably think I'm a thief. They couldeasilyhave checked the surveillance and saw that I had nothing to do with it. But no,they just kept yelling and threatening. U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..." Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."


U.S.A. "Go West Young Men..."
Mexico "El Norte Hombre..."

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:35:06 -0500,
Richard in <bhmbm7027tc@enews4.newsguy.com> wrote: You should have immediately called the police and pressed charges. Shoving the box in your face is technically assault and battery. Being falsely accused of shoplifting and being banned is harsh and brash.

Showing a person a empty box is not assualt and battery. The original poster
should write a letter to *upper* management of the chain and take your
business else where.

--
Best Regards, Keith AOL IM:kilowattradio
NW Oregon Radio http://kilowatt-radio.org/
"Give SCO $699 for using Linux or the Penguin gets it."

Keith wrote:>>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:35:06 -0500, Richard in <bhmbm7027tc@enews4.newsguy.com> wrote: You should have immediately called the police and pressed charges. Shoving the box in your face is technically assault and battery. Being falsely accused of shoplifting and being banned is harsh and brash.
Showing a person a empty box is not assualt and battery. The original poster should write a letter to *upper* management of the chain and take your business else where.

Shoving the box, empty or not, even your hands, in someone's face is
assault.
battery means contact has been made.
If you were to take hold of a person and force them to turn towards you,
that is technically assault and battery.

-- Best Regards, Keith AOL IM:kilowattradio NW Oregon Radio http://kilowatt-radio.org/ "Give SCO $699 for using Linux or the Penguin gets it."

In article <bhmbm7027tc@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote:Once detained, you are being held against your will by a person who is notan officer of the law.You have the right to leave at any time. If they keep you from leaving, youcan file charges against them.

Absolutely not true. It's called the "shopkeeper's privilege" and it's
been codified into law in every jurisdiction I know of. It allows stores
to hold suspected shoplifterd until the police arrive.

In some extreme examples - such as the flagship stores of major chains -
they even have their own holding cells in the store, and a tight
relationship with the local police. It's completely legal for store
security to hold you in a cell while they wait for officers to respond to
their 911 call (or direct call to the local precinct).
<snip>Oh and don't worry about the banning from the store, if you want to go backin for some strange reason, do so. You have every legal right to be thereduring business hours.


Absolutely not true, again. There was a story on the news the other day
about 2 sisters banned from Filene's Basement because they returned too
much merchandise, and the store determined they weren't making profits
from spending time helping these two women.

Stores are privately owned and private property. They can invite and
forbid anyone they want from entering, as long as it's not based on
specifically-enumerated classifications, in which case it would be illegal
discrimination.

In article <bhmc89028gk@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote:Not necessarily. California laws are very peculiar. The business is open tothe public, I am the public.What's he gonna do? Charge me with trespassing? Ok fine. When I see thejudge I'll explain why I was arrested for trespassing. Do you think thejudge is gonna be so kind to the manager then? Find out precisely whattrespassing laws are in california. Fore warned is fore armed as they say.

In NY, stores routinely get someone to sign a "trespass notice" if they're
caught shoplifting, and the notice bans them from ever re-entering the
store. The effect is that if someone shoplifts again, rather than being
another misdemeanor, it could be charged as burglary ( a felony) since
burglary is defined as illegally entering a place with the intent to
commit a crime therein.

Larry wrote

"Absolutely not true, again. There was a story on the news the other day about
2 sisters banned from Filene's Basement because they returned too much
merchandise, and the store determined they weren't making profits from spending
time helping these two women.

Stores are privately owned and private property. They can invite and forbid
anyone they want from entering, as long as it's not based on
specifically-enumerated classifications, in which case it would be illegal
discrimination."

Yup. Larry's exactly right on the money on this one. Not only can/do stores
identify and restrict "shady behavior" customers, but in many cases that
applies to certain ex-employees as well. The only real problem is the store
consistently enforcing the banishment. Its real easy to identify the person you
wish to leave in a 7-11, but a whole different matter in a Best Buy or Target.

Generally, showing a customer the door is done in *exceptional* circumstances,
as most retail enviroments try to bend over backwars for positive public
relations. Frequent returners, unruly teenagers, price switchers, potential
shoplifters and the like are usually dealt with much more privately than in the
case of the original poster. Still, the ultimate decision to ban someone is on
the head of the manager(s) in charge. If they want you to walk, you are gonna
walk.

Chase

none@nowhere.com (Larry) wrote in message news:<none-1608032325480001@192.168.2.4>... In article <bhmbm7027tc@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote:
Oh and don't worry about the banning from the store, if you want to go backin for some strange reason, do so. You have every legal right to be thereduring business hours. Absolutely not true, again. There was a story on the news the other day about 2 sisters banned from Filene's Basement because they returned too much merchandise, and the store determined they weren't making profits from spending time helping these two women.

Well -- actually, I doubt that they could legally be prevented from
returning the rest of their merchandise -- that would be a violation
of the store's return policy -- but they COULD be prevented from shopping
in the store.

(Whether that requires that returns normally "paid" in merchandise credit
and any existing merchandise credits that they presently have would have
to be converted to cash is another question.)