"Waldo Weaver" <waldoweaver@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5aede0f4.0308141723.27d53e07@posting.google.c om...
snip

The student involved in the Nov. 26 report is being provided counseling and support by UC Davis Counseling Services, Handy said. http://www-dateline.ucdavis.edu/120602/dl_safety.html *************

Fascinating. A student who plagiarizes a paper would get expelled, but one
who damages another human being's integrity with a false rape claim will get
"counseling and support."

Jane

> She did not damage another human being's integrity.

Just the integrity of all males and it would have been another rape
statistic if she had not changed her tune. In the end, she helped to damage
the integrity of females, especially those around her. The reasons for
making false alegations do not cease to amaze me. What could she have
possibly been thinking?
I understand the frustration of those who believe that women falsely cry rape too often. But please stop twisting the facts to inflame those who don't read with a critical eye.

Everyone needs to read into all allegations, with a very scrutinizing eye.
We should focus on physical facts rather than mere allegations.

"stargazer" <stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%B7%a.1896$f44.1@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com... In fact I look at stories like this as feeble attempts to divert attention from a real problem.


While I agree with much of your (snipped) post, both problems are entirely
"real" -- rape, and false claims of rape.

Oddly enough, both problems have exactly the same solution: Investigate each
claim of rape (thoroughly, honestly and objectively); if prosecution is
warranted, apply the rules of evidence and other rules of law; and, if
defendant is convicted, punish the guilty to the fullest extent of the law.

Same as with any other crime. (Hey, what a concept! Treat it like other
crimes!.....Who'd-a thunk it??)

What I don't buy, is the notion (which advocates never recognize for what it
means) that, because rape is a horrible crime (agreed), we need to turn the
law on its head to make it easier to wrongly convict. The horror of the
crime means that the guilty should be punished horribly, but it should never
change the burden of proof.

stargazer wrote: The more idiotic stories and anecdotes they post, the less likely I am to give their opinions or views any thought. You are correct, this person damaged no one.

How do you figure? Every false cry of rape damages men, even if not
directed at any particular man, because that's one more undeserved
slander of reputation and integrity that must be fought. The eventual
recanting of the charge is moot; the damage has been done.

Followups set. Add your group.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:00:22 -0400 in talk.rape stargazer
<stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<E49%a.1056$Q_.186@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>...
Agreed, but please let me say I don't know a single person who's falsely accused someone of rape, nor do I know anyone who's been falsely accused. I do know plently of people who've been raped though. Both men and women...

This is a curious matter. I've been reading talk.rape for nearly five
years, with attendent crossposting from soc.men. In that time I've spoken
to literally hundreds of women and men who have been raped, yet the number
of people who have posted to say they were falsely accused can be counted on
the thumbs of two hands.

That FRA's exist is undeniable, but how prevalent is it? Antifeminists
claim that the problem is widespread. So where are all the victims?
star

--
Daran

"The misuse of language induces evil in the soul." -- Socrates

Daran wrote: Followups set. Add your group. On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:00:22 -0400 in talk.rape stargazer <stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message <E49%a.1056$Q_.186@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>...Agreed, but please let me say I don't know a single person who's falselyaccused someone of rape, nor do I know anyone who's been falsely accused. Ido know plently of people who've been raped though. Both men and women... This is a curious matter. I've been reading talk.rape for nearly five years, with attendent crossposting from soc.men. In that time I've spoken to literally hundreds of women and men who have been raped, yet the number of people who have posted to say they were falsely accused can be counted on the thumbs of two hands. That FRA's exist is undeniable, but how prevalent is it? Antifeminists claim that the problem is widespread. So where are all the victims?

Mostly in prison.

Bob


star

Followups set.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:56:50 -0500 in talk.rape wd
<root@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
<pan.2003.08.15.22.56.46.16109@localhost.localdomai n>...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:32:30 +0100, Daran wrote: This is a curious matter. I've been reading talk.rape for nearly five years, with attendent crossposting from soc.men. In that time I've spoken to literally hundreds of women and men who have been raped, yet the number of people who have posted to say they were falsely accused can be counted on the thumbs of two hands. Thats because they are probably still in jail BOZO

All of them? None of the tens of thousands of alleged rapist who were *not*
convicted was falsely accused? That's an astonishing claim!
Besides, once an innocent person has been through that could you blame them for not wanting to talk about it, or plaster it all over the internet with strangers?

I certainly wouldn't *blame* anyone for not wanting to talk about it.
However, it's my experience that victims of injustice *very much* want
to talk about it in many cases. On usenet they can do so, in safety and (if
they want it) anonymity.

It's the perpetrators of injustice who wish to hide, which is why we get
very few admitted rapists here.
Much like soldiers dont want to talk about combat when they return,...

I'm currently downloading all unexpired articles from soc.veterans. Seems
they have a lot to talk about, as there are more than 3600. I'd be very
surprised if at least *some* of those posts weren't about their experiences.
...i am sure these men simply do not care to discuss their experience with a dweeb like you.

Nor, apparently, with a soc.man like you. Why is that?
HAND <s>

And yourself.
~wd

--
Daran

"The misuse of language induces evil in the soul." -- Socrates


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On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:54:03 GMT, "Cyclonejane"
<cyclonejane@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Waldo Weaver" <waldoweaver@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:5aede0f4.0308141723.27d53e07@posting.g oogle.com...snip The student involved in the Nov. 26 report is being provided counseling and support by UC Davis Counseling Services, Handy said. http://www-dateline.ucdavis.edu/120602/dl_safety.html *************Fascinating. A student who plagiarizes a paper would get expelled, but onewho damages another human being's integrity with a false rape claim will get"counseling and support."

I guess the idea is to stop her from doing it again. That has to be a
good thing. And would someone who plagiarises really get expelled?
They wouldn't here.

Ann

"Ann" <ann@nochance.net> wrote in message
news:sgivjvoksa1234v8vlt1aqv10kqf56vro7@4ax.com... On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:54:03 GMT, "Cyclonejane" <cyclonejane@mchsi.com> wrote:"Waldo Weaver" <waldoweaver@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:5aede0f4.0308141723.27d53e07@posting.g oogle.com...snip The student involved in the Nov. 26 report is being provided counseling and support by UC Davis Counseling Services, Handy said. http://www-dateline.ucdavis.edu/120602/dl_safety.html *************Fascinating. A student who plagiarizes a paper would get expelled, but
onewho damages another human being's integrity with a false rape claim will
get"counseling and support." I guess the idea is to stop her from doing it again. That has to be a good thing. And would someone who plagiarises really get expelled? They wouldn't here. Ann

They would, Ann. See, for example:

http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/epigram/epigram-index.php?article=403

I remember one or two cases from my own time (though that was pre- web)
where students were found to have plagiarised written texts, and were denied
degrees (which is the equivalent of expulsion). Plagiarism is a *major* sin
in academia - one of the worst crimes you can commit.

John James (JJ)

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:43:42 +0100, "John James" <not@all.co.uk>
wrote:
"Ann" <ann@nochance.net> wrote in messagenews:sgivjvoksa1234v8vlt1aqv10kqf56vro7@4ax .com... On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:54:03 GMT, "Cyclonejane" <cyclonejane@mchsi.com> wrote:"Waldo Weaver" <waldoweaver@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:5aede0f4.0308141723.27d53e07@posting.g oogle.com...snip> The student involved in the Nov. 26 report is being provided> counseling and support by UC Davis Counseling Services, Handy said.> http://www-dateline.ucdavis.edu/120602/dl_safety.html> *************Fascinating. A student who plagiarizes a paper would get expelled, butonewho damages another human being's integrity with a false rape claim willget"counseling and support." I guess the idea is to stop her from doing it again. That has to be a good thing. And would someone who plagiarises really get expelled? They wouldn't here. AnnThey would, Ann. See, for example:http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/epigram/epigram-index.php?article=403I remember one or two cases from my own time (though that was pre- web)where students were found to have plagiarised written texts, and were denieddegrees (which is the equivalent of expulsion). Plagiarism is a *major* sinin academia - one of the worst crimes you can commit.

Things have changed. I know what the consequences of plagiarism and
cheating are at one university in England at least. I could tell some
stories. I'm in danger of dragging my soap box out but if I want to
keep my job I'd better shut up.

Ann

Ann wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:43:42 +0100, "John James" <not@all.co.uk> wrote:"Ann" <ann@nochance.net> wrote in messagenews:sgivjvoksa1234v8vlt1aqv10kqf56vro7@4ax .com...On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:54:03 GMT, "Cyclonejane"<cyclonejane@mchsi.com> wrote:>"Waldo Weaver" <waldoweaver@hotmail.com> wrote in message>news:5aede0f4.0308141723.27d53e07@posting.google.c om...>snip>>>>>The student involved in the Nov. 26 report is being provided>>counseling and support by UC Davis Counseling Services, Handy said.>>http://www-dateline.ucdavis.edu/120602/dl_safety.html>>*************>>Fascinating. A student who plagiarizes a paper would get expelled, butone>who damages another human being's integrity with a false rape claim willget>"counseling and support."I guess the idea is to stop her from doing it again. That has to be agood thing. And would someone who plagiarises really get expelled?They wouldn't here.AnnThey would, Ann. See, for example:http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/epigram/epigram-index.php?article=403I remember one or two cases from my own time (though that was pre- web)where students were found to have plagiarised written texts, and were denieddegrees (which is the equivalent of expulsion). Plagiarism is a *major* sinin academia - one of the worst crimes you can commit. Things have changed. I know what the consequences of plagiarism and cheating are at one university in England at least. I could tell some stories. I'm in danger of dragging my soap box out but if I want to keep my job I'd better shut up. Ann

The line between plagiarism and "research" is very thin. Virtually
every "research" paper written by University professors includes the
work of previous scholars with a small bit of new added or collected
thinking. In the past much of the time the student/professor doing the
writing would paraphrase what he had learned from great thinkers, or
include long quotes. Today with the advent of the web and computers
researchers can click and copy their backup data from sources. To call
that "plagiarism" is overboard, yet some universities now use some
equivalent of a google search to find copied text if it exists anywhere.

When I was in college one art professor sued a student who had sold an
art piece done in a similar style to the professor's work. The student
claimed that he was "inspired" by what he learned in the professor's
class. The judge agreed that the style looked like it had been done by
the professor, but denied the suit because the student had paid to be
taught how to do that kind of art.

The definition of "plagiarism" is being forced to change now that
"research" is done with a point and click rather than a pen and paper.
It will be some time yet before the university community digests the new
technology completely.

Bob

"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F416545.4070007@hotmail.com...
[...] The definition of "plagiarism" is being forced to change now that "research" is done with a point and click rather than a pen and paper. It will be some time yet before the university community digests the new technology completely. Bob

Blob, old bean, the definition of 'plagiarism' is fairly straightforward,
and always has been - it's passing off work as original without
acknowledging sources. If you copy someone else, or paraphrase someone else,
and acknowledge them, it's not 'plagiarism' because anyone is free to
compare your work with the original. Why are you so frequently confused
about perfectly simple concepts?

I can imagine how confusing the Internet must be to the university
community, what with it being so new to them and all...

John James (JJ)

John James wrote: "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F416545.4070007@hotmail.com... [...]The definition of "plagiarism" is being forced to change now that"research" is done with a point and click rather than a pen and paper.It will be some time yet before the university community digests the newtechnology completely.Bob Blob, old bean, the definition of 'plagiarism' is fairly straightforward, and always has been - it's passing off work as original without acknowledging sources. If you copy someone else, or paraphrase someone else, and acknowledge them, it's not 'plagiarism' because anyone is free to compare your work with the original. Why are you so frequently confused about perfectly simple concepts? I can imagine how confusing the Internet must be to the university community, what with it being so new to them and all... John James (JJ)

You obviously have not been keeping up with the controversies currently
being hotly discussed in universities all over the world. But thanks
for confirming your ignorance.

Bob

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:05:53 GMT, "Anony Mouse" <mousie@nospam.net>
wrote:
She did not damage another human being's integrity.Just the integrity of all males

Excuse me? Does a man damage the integrity of all other men if he
rapes someone? *I* don't think so, and your argument really doesn't
work if you don't think so either.
and it would have been another rapestatistic if she had not changed her tune. In the end, she helped to damagethe integrity of females, especially those around her. The reasons formaking false alegations do not cease to amaze me. What could she havepossibly been thinking?

I don't think she damage the integrity of women, either. I don't feel
at all damaged.

Laurie