Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F3B8D14.3090100@hotmail.com>... atheisticmystic wrote: "MCP" <george77@tesco.net> wrote in message news:<0TF_a.31$Xq3.27@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>...
That sounds just like my ex wife. Please tell me that you basketball fans aren't raisng any daughters. I literally cringe thinking about a young girl growing up exposed to your misinformed hate and florid ignorance. atheisticmystic Girls who grow up in a home with a strong father succeed in all parts of life at higher rates than do girls who are taken away from their father by misandrist feminazi whining "single mom" women. Your enthusiasm to harm daughters by removing them from the homes of strong fathers is noted. Shame on you. Bob

Bob,

In my dictionary, "strong" does not equal "misogynistic". Perhaps you
ought to check yours.

scooter34 wrote: Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F3B8D14.3090100@hotmail.com>...atheisticmystic wrote:"MCP" <george77@tesco.net> wrote in message news:<0TF_a.31$Xq3.27@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>...>That sounds just like my ex wife.Please tell me that you basketball fans aren't raisng any daughters. Iliterally cringe thinking about a young girl growing up exposed toyour misinformed hate and florid ignorance.atheisticmysticGirls who grow up in a home with a strong father succeed in all parts oflife at higher rates than do girls who are taken away from their fatherby misandrist feminazi whining "single mom" women.Your enthusiasm to harm daughters by removing them from the homes ofstrong fathers is noted. Shame on you.Bob Bob, In my dictionary, "strong" does not equal "misogynistic". Perhaps you ought to check yours.

A growing mountain of research shows that taking a daughter away from
her father hurts the child far more, on average, than almost any other
thing the misandrist feminist mother can do. The "for the kids" excuse
of man hating bigots who call strong men "misogynistic" and use children
as weapons of war just hurts the children more.

Bob

Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F3BC414.3050404@hotmail.com>... scooter34 wrote: Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F3B8D14.3090100@hotmail.com>...atheisticmystic wrote:>"MCP" <george77@tesco.net> wrote in message news:<0TF_a.31$Xq3.27@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>...>>That sounds just like my ex wife.>>>Please tell me that you basketball fans aren't raisng any daughters. I>literally cringe thinking about a young girl growing up exposed to>your misinformed hate and florid ignorance.>atheisticmysticGirls who grow up in a home with a strong father succeed in all parts oflife at higher rates than do girls who are taken away from their fatherby misandrist feminazi whining "single mom" women.Your enthusiasm to harm daughters by removing them from the homes ofstrong fathers is noted. Shame on you.Bob Bob, In my dictionary, "strong" does not equal "misogynistic". Perhaps you ought to check yours. A growing mountain of research shows that taking a daughter away from her father hurts the child far more, on average, than almost any other thing the misandrist feminist mother can do. The "for the kids" excuse of man hating bigots who call strong men "misogynistic" and use children as weapons of war just hurts the children more. Bob
Bob,
You stated that Borderline Personality Disorder, a clinical
psychiatric condition, could be summed up by saying "woman", THAT is
misogynistic, not "strong". So basically you are advocating that
fathers should teach their daughters that they are pathological.

You're the shameful one Bob, quoting talk-radio rhetoric like it's an
acceptable substitute for thought. I'm surprised you can "note" your
own name.
HTH
atheisticmystic

PS "Growing mountain" is a mixed-metaphor research boy.

"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F3BC414.3050404@hotmail.com...
A growing mountain of research shows that taking a daughter away from her father hurts the child far more, on average, than almost any other thing the misandrist feminist mother can do. The "for the kids" excuse of man hating bigots who call strong men "misogynistic" and use children as weapons of war just hurts the children more.


so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose fathers
abandon them?

Child wrote: so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose fathers abandon them?

A growing number of MEN no longer buy that old tired feminist LIE about MEN.

Your lying days are over bigot. Nobody believes you any more.

Bob

"Andre Lieven" <dg411@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bhqho6$gie$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... "Child" (beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com) scribbled: "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F3E3B8D.30307@hotmail.com... Child wrote: > > so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose
fathers > abandon them? A growing number of MEN no longer buy that old tired feminist LIE about MEN. Your lying days are over bigot. Nobody believes you any more. Bob, honey, please explain how a question can be a lie? Since the basic premise of the ignorant and dishonest question was a lie, then what came bundled with it, was as much a lie.

there was no lie attached to anything, Andre, it was a simple question, to
show that kids damaged by having only one parent is caused by both men AND
women. Its not just women who prevent kids from seeing their dads, its dads
too, who have no interest in seeing their kids.

See Braver, " Divorced Dads ", which shows quite authoritatively that over 70% of divorces are chosen by *women*, thus the so called " mountains of research (that) show about kids ( Gads, what horrid grammar ! ) whose fathers abandon them " are merely the foothills to the Everest peaks of research that show about kids whose MOTHERS abandon *and* destroy their famalies.



Whose talking about divorce?. Lets talk about how many kids are raised by
single mothers with no fathers present. How are those kids affected by
that?


Also, in the area of Child Support, non custodial *mothers* have the worst compliance records...


Sure, but whats that got to do with the price of asparagus in alaska?

"Child" <beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
news:vk2ukcbd8en901@corp.supernews.com... "Andre Lieven" <dg411@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message news:bhqho6$gie$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... "Child" (beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com) scribbled: "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F3E3B8D.30307@hotmail.com...> Child wrote:> >> > so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose fathers> > abandon them?>> A growing number of MEN no longer buy that old tired feminist LIE
about> MEN.>> Your lying days are over bigot. Nobody believes you any more. Bob, honey, please explain how a question can be a lie? Since the basic premise of the ignorant and dishonest question was a lie, then what came bundled with it, was as much a lie. there was no lie attached to anything, Andre, it was a simple question, to show that kids damaged by having only one parent is caused by both men AND women. Its not just women who prevent kids from seeing their dads, its
dads too, who have no interest in seeing their kids. See Braver, " Divorced Dads ", which shows quite authoritatively that over 70% of divorces are chosen by *women*, thus the so called " mountains of research (that) show about kids ( Gads, what horrid grammar ! ) whose fathers abandon them " are merely the foothills to the Everest peaks of research that show about kids whose MOTHERS abandon *and* destroy their famalies. Whose talking about divorce?. Lets talk about how many kids are raised by single mothers with no fathers present. How are those kids affected by that? Also, in the area of Child Support, non custodial *mothers* have the worst compliance records... Sure, but whats that got to do with the price of asparagus in alaska?

What is the price of asparagus in Alaska anyway?? Sometimes we can get it
for $1.99 a lb. I love fresh asparagus. :)

sg

"stargazer" <stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p9f0b.2741$a9.1968@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
What is the price of asparagus in Alaska anyway?? Sometimes we can get it for $1.99 a lb. I love fresh asparagus. :)


in winter its $4.99 a pound
but 2.99$ a pound in summer
and 1.99$ on sale
but its lousy. we get the worst produce. all the drek the seattlites
didn't want.

"Child" <beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in message
news:vk32hmcmti1628@corp.supernews.com... "stargazer" <stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:p9f0b.2741$a9.1968@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com... What is the price of asparagus in Alaska anyway?? Sometimes we can get
it for $1.99 a lb. I love fresh asparagus. :) in winter its $4.99 a pound but 2.99$ a pound in summer and 1.99$ on sale but its lousy. we get the worst produce. all the drek the seattlites didn't want.


That's too bad, about getting the worst produce I mean. I do love my fresh
vegetables. Yeah, it's about $4.99 in the winter here too. Before my back
got really bad, we used to plant much larger gardens. We grew broccoli,
cauliflower, radishes, green onions, even some carrots, but they don't grow
real well in the clay soil we have here. They stay kinda short and fat.
:-) Now we just have tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers.

sg

"Michael Snyder" <msnyder@redhat.com> wrote in message
news:bhs99t$e0h$1@stan.redhat.com... Child wrote: "Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F3E3B8D.30307@hotmail.com...Child wrote:>>so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose fathers>abandon them?>A growing number of MEN no longer buy that old tired feminist LIE about MEN.Your lying days are over bigot. Nobody believes you any more. Bob, honey, please explain how a question can be a lie? Just like yours did -- a classic "have you stopped beating your wife?" Your question presumed that fathers typically abandon children.


Liar!

My question doesn't presume that anyone "typically" does anything, it just
points out that every fatherless daughter isn't caused by a mother,
necessarily.

Its your bias that sees that question as presuming. Its your assumption.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:10:25 -0800, "Child"
<beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote:
"Andre Lieven" <dg411@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in messagenews:bhs7hm$5vh$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...> Since the basic premise of the ignorant and dishonest question was> a lie, then what came bundled with it, was as much a lie. there was no lie attached to anything, Andre, OK, its possible that you were/are extremely *ignorant* on this issue, apparently deliberately so. But, that your " question " was deliberately weighted, is clear.no, BOB's statement was weighted, mine was meant to balance. Both men andwomen harm kids. it was a simple question, to show that kids damaged by having only one parent is caused by both menAND women. Mostly women. See Braver and Wallerstein. Its not just women who prevent kids from seeing their dads, its dads too, who have no interest in seeing their kids. I've offered you cites. You've offered... oh, yes... nothing... Uh huh.> See Braver, " Divorced Dads ", which shows quite authoritatively> that over 70% of divorces are chosen by *women*, thus the so called> " mountains of research (that) show about kids ( Gads, what horrid> grammar ! ) whose fathers abandon them " are merely the foothills> to the Everest peaks of research that show about kids whose MOTHERS> abandon *and* destroy their famalies. Whose talking about divorce?. Lets talk about how many kids are raised by single mothers with no fathers present.
Torgersen, S. (1984). Genetic and nosological aspects of schizotypal
and
borderline personality disorder: A twin study. Archives of General
Psychiatry, 41, 546-554.
Torgersen, S., Skre, I., Onstad, S., Edvardsen, J., & Kringlen, E.
(1993). The
psychometric-genetic structure of DSM-III-R personality disorder
criteria.
Journal of Personality Disorders, 7, 196-213


http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/siever.htm
There are some suggestions that there may be biologic underpinnings to
this affective sensitivity or instability.

Genetic Studies in Borderline Personality Disorder
http://www.borderlineresearch.org/publications/progress_reports_2001/rockefeller_1.pdf

The borderline diagnosis III: identifying endophenotypes for genetic
studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12062879&dopt=Abstract
Family aggregation studies suggest the heritability for BPD as a
diagnosis, but the genetic basis for this disorder may be stronger for
dimensions such as impulsivity/aggression and affective instability
than for the diagnostic criteria itself. Family, adoptive, and twin
studies also converge to support an underlying genetic component to
the disorder.
In "The Cause of Borderline Personality Disorder"an article at
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/cause.htm, Tim Pheil L.P.N.
writes that

"New Model"

"The newest model [of BPD] is that the BPD is Biological, Neurological
and Genetic. It is caused by a dysfunction of the Limbic area of the
Brain, which controls emotion. The model suggests that emotions are
mishandled. Such that a feeling of being slighted becomes RAGE versus
anger, or feeling alone and unloved becomes severe anxiety thus the "I
love you, don't leave me" syndrome. This triggers depression. This
malfunction can also trigger other areas of the brain leading to
anxiety, disassociation and psychosis. Marsha Lineham refers to
"Emotional Dysregulation". The depression and uncontrolled emotional
state is referred to as Dysphoria.

"The reason that child abuse is so prevalent in the BPD history is
that one or both parents are mentally ill. Dr Markovitz states that
"Because people tend to congregate with the groups their most
comfortable with. The mentally ill tend to congregate together, thus
limiting the gene pool". If you are a sufferer of a mental illness
chances are you are friends with mental illnesses. Those who are
diagnosed and treated for their illnesses tend not to abuse their
children. But there are some that their illnesses are treatment
resistant such as severe cases of Bipolar and Schizophrenia.

"The Surgeon General estimates that 1 out of 5 Americans have a mental
illness. But only half are diagnosed. Thus 1 out of 10 Americans has a
mental illness and are undiagnosed and untreated.

"Old Model"

"The only thing that you can get the experts to agree on is that there
must be Biological and Neurological predisposition for those to
develop BPD. And if childhood abuse or childhood abandonment happed,
then this person would develop BPD. This is of course over
simplified."

For a really good account, go to http://www.thomasscoville.com/borderlands.htm -- this author was married to a professor at a major university who did this to him, apparently. Borderlines can be very high functioning, it looks like.

Did this story really happen? I read the disclaimer : (It won't let
me cut and paste, sorry) It starts out "I have to say this is
fiction...But I've got some truth to tell. Some people threatened to
try and stop me, so yeah, this is fiction. But it's as true as I
could make it." The page that leads into it says (Darn, it won't let
me cut and paste from that either) "Another project I'm working on is
an emotional murder mystery...etc. etc. abuses of domestic violence
agencies...etc. etc. it's rooted in personal experience." Sorry, but
this sounds to me like the kind of thing that "memoirist" Vivian
Gornick is in a bit of controversy for...making up composite
characters and incidents because a "memoir" is "literary fiction" and
only has to be "true to the truth it means to tell" or something like
that, not true to what actually happened. I could be wrong but I
smell a piece of literary "it could happen" "Borderline-fiction" or
"borderline-nonfiction" that doesn't present actual facts, in order to
present a point the author wants to make. I am not sure "it's rooted
in personal experience" means "this really happened." I have personal
experience, too, with a woman making false allegations of child abuse
against her ex-husband, the dentist, the doctor, and etc. etc. but I
don't have anything against telling the story exactly as it
happened...it proves the point without making fiction, literary or
whatever, out of it. Something about the wording of that introduction
page and that disclaimer makes me think this is a greatly embellished
fictional account meant to illustrate the author's point, not a real
account of events that actually happened.

On 18 Aug 2003 23:47:26 -0700, salwar_kameez@hotmail.com (Salwar
Kameez) wrote:
For a really good account, go to http://www.thomasscoville.com/borderlands.htm -- this author was married to a professor at a major university who did this to him, apparently. Borderlines can be very high functioning, it looks like.Did this story really happen? I read the disclaimer : (It won't letme cut and paste, sorry) It starts out "I have to say this isfiction...But I've got some truth to tell. Some people threatened totry and stop me, so yeah, this is fiction. But it's as true as Icould make it." The page that leads into it says (Darn, it won't letme cut and paste from that either) "Another project I'm working on isan emotional murder mystery...etc. etc. abuses of domestic violenceagencies...etc. etc. it's rooted in personal experience." Sorry, butthis sounds to me like the kind of thing that "memoirist" VivianGornick is in a bit of controversy for...making up compositecharacters and incidents because a "memoir" is "literary fiction" andonly has to be "true to the truth it means to tell" or something likethat, not true to what actually happened. I could be wrong but Ismell a piece of literary "it could happen" "Borderline-fiction" or"borderline-nonfiction" that doesn't present actual facts, in order topresent a point the author wants to make. I am not sure "it's rootedin personal experience" means "this really happened." I have personalexperience, too, with a woman making false allegations of child abuseagainst her ex-husband, the dentist, the doctor, and etc. etc. but Idon't have anything against telling the story exactly as ithappened...it proves the point without making fiction, literary orwhatever, out of it. Something about the wording of that introductionpage and that disclaimer makes me think this is a greatly embellishedfictional account meant to illustrate the author's point, not a realaccount of events that actually happened.

Soc.men would have you believe that it is just women who do evil
things to their ex spouse like lie about child abuse. But I am on a
borderline email list and there are a lot of *male* ex spouses who
abuse and lie. In fact it appears to be about even.

Child wrote: "stargazer" <stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:p9f0b.2741$a9.1968@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com... What is the price of asparagus in Alaska anyway?? Sometimes we can get itfor $1.99 a lb. I love fresh asparagus. :) in winter its $4.99 a pound but 2.99$ a pound in summer and 1.99$ on sale but its lousy. we get the worst produce. all the drek the seattlites didn't want.

I have a friend who farms asparagus. She loves it when the price goes up.

Bob

Child wrote: no, mine was meant to balance.

That lie don't fly charlie.

Both men and women harm kids.

Sometimes, but you only focused on the less harm that men do while
ignoring the much more frequent harm that women do. A totally bigoted
propaganda lie.

Bob

From what I've been able to glean the author's disclaimer is a defense
against continued threat of lawsuit; high-functioning borderlines
bring harassing suits against people quite frequently: rape, assault,
molestation of children.

The case in question is apparently well-known in academic circles
these days, as the event was pretty widely talked about when it
happened. It involved a member of the faculty of an Ivy League
university. I'm not going to complicate the author's life by saying
any more than that, but it's not a composite, from what I've heard.
It's actual fact that the author chose to repackage as fiction in
order to avoid a lawsuit. And people who have read this account who
also have experience with borderlines seem to find the story pretty
coherent and consistent.

My understanding is that Scoville wanted to salvage his reputation in
his community after being falsely accused. He intended for the people
involved to recognize themselves, but that the general public should
have no way of tracing the people in the account, unless by
extraordinary sleuthing... which a number of people have done already.

It's a pretty clever strategy: rather than have to defend against
charges of defamation, which would be time-consuming and costly, the
author chooses the First Amendment protections for authors. That way,
the story gets out, he defends his own name to his community -- in
which he's been slandered -- and keeps the lawyers out of it. It's a
kind of "emotional justice" as he writes in his web page.

And it's not even close to the most extremes of borderline
confabulation and false accusation.
http://www.bpdresources.com/divorcecustody.html#Falseaccusations has
some links to really horrifying accounts.

In this sense, the Scoville account has a lot of relevance for the
Kobe Bryant accusations. I don't know if Kobe's accuser is a
borderline, but it's becoming generally apparent that false
accusations of abuse, rape, and child molestation (coming from women,
directed at men) are much more common than supposed. And it's real
violence, even if it doesn't involve any blows. False accusation is
one of the most traumatizing events that anyone can ever endure.

And it isn't like the borderlines are pure evil, either. They appear
to have real issues around trauma-related memory:

<i>"The topic of apparent partial memory loss, total amnesia, or the
cognitive memory glitches and distortions sometimes expressed by those
suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder, is a vital one for
anyone concerned with this disorder.

Are Borderlines just "lying" when they claim they don't remember
certain of their own (often abusive) behaviors? Can they seriously
expect others to rationally accept their sometimes massive revisions
of events that were witnessed quite differently by other participants?
Why do they seem almost self-destructively bent upon insisting on
their version of history -- and why does that history always write
them as the 'victim'?

There is a vast literature dealing with these questions, from pure
biological research on brain function, to theories of traumatic memory
loss, to ethical speculations on the nature of such distortions of
lived experience."</i>

salwar_kameez@hotmail.com (Salwar Kameez) wrote in message news:<74139a0f.0308182247.c57c9d7@posting.google.com>... For a really good account, go to http://www.thomasscoville.com/borderlands.htm -- this author was married to a professor at a major university who did this to him, apparently. Borderlines can be very high functioning, it looks like. Did this story really happen? I read the disclaimer : (It won't let me cut and paste, sorry) It starts out "I have to say this is fiction...But I've got some truth to tell. Some people threatened to try and stop me, so yeah, this is fiction. But it's as true as I could make it." The page that leads into it says (Darn, it won't let me cut and paste from that either) "Another project I'm working on is an emotional murder mystery...etc. etc. abuses of domestic violence agencies...etc. etc. it's rooted in personal experience." Sorry, but this sounds to me like the kind of thing that "memoirist" Vivian Gornick is in a bit of controversy for...making up composite characters and incidents because a "memoir" is "literary fiction" and only has to be "true to the truth it means to tell" or something like that, not true to what actually happened. I could be wrong but I smell a piece of literary "it could happen" "Borderline-fiction" or "borderline-nonfiction" that doesn't present actual facts, in order to present a point the author wants to make. I am not sure "it's rooted in personal experience" means "this really happened." I have personal experience, too, with a woman making false allegations of child abuse against her ex-husband, the dentist, the doctor, and etc. etc. but I don't have anything against telling the story exactly as it happened...it proves the point without making fiction, literary or whatever, out of it. Something about the wording of that introduction page and that disclaimer makes me think this is a greatly embellished fictional account meant to illustrate the author's point, not a real account of events that actually happened.

"Child" <beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com> wrote in
news:vk5mrp7gvci122@corp.supernews.com:
"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3F422DE0.6000103@hotmail.com... Child wrote: "Michael Snyder" <msnyder@redhat.com> wrote in message news:bhs99t$e0h$1@stan.redhat.com...>Child wrote:>>>"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message>>news:3F3E3B8D.30307@hotmail.com...>>>>>>>Child wrote:>>>>>>>>>>so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose fathers>>>>abandon them?>>>>>>>>>>A growing number of MEN no longer buy that old tired feminist LIE about>>>>MEN.>>>>>>>Your lying days are over bigot. Nobody believes you any more.>>>>>>>>Bob, honey, please explain how a question can be a lie?>>Just like yours did -- a classic "have you stopped beating your wife?">Your question presumed that fathers typically abandon children. Liar! My question doesn't presume that anyone "typically" does anything, it just points out that every fatherless daughter isn't caused by a mother, necessarily. Its your bias that sees that question as presuming. Its your assumption. Your question was a lie. Several people have pointed that out to you. Deal with it. A question cannot be a lie, silly man.

For the record, I know of instances where men have abandoned families, and
where women have abandoned families. Among people I know, men have abandoned
families more frequently. In my own case, my maternal grandfather deserted
his pregnant wife and nine kids to run off with a woman, and my father, a
drunken alcoholic piece of ****, abandoned his family as well, after my
mother kicked him out of the house, finally, after he began twisting my skin
when I was about six months old (I was crying and he wanted to give me
something to cry about).
As a boy, I was always thankful that my mother got rid of that creep, and I
was always happy that she never bothered with men again. I did not need some
man coming into my life hollering at me to get him beer and cigarettes (in
the lower-working class I grew up in back in the fifties and early sixties
that was all most of them did when home, aside from watching TV) and
screaming at me and hitting me because I preferred reading books to playing
idiotic sports. I did come to hate being a boy and later being a man, not
just because of my father and grandfather, but also because of interactions
with men and my peers that left me with a jaundiced view of being male. (and
which was also instrumental in causing me to suffer suicidal depression that
resulted in my hospitalization as a teen.)
It took me years to accept the idea that men were really human beings, and
that it was men's upbringing and societal expectations that usually made so
many of them creeps (though some men, like some women, are just born nasty).
What was that turned me around and helped me become more accepting not just
of men but of my own masculinity?
A college course that introduced me to feminism. It was through feminism that
I was able to realize that men and women were both victims of unrealistic
gender expectations, and that both men and women could reject societal
expectations and find their own way. After all, if it is OK for women to be
athletic, it is OK for men to be nonathletic. If women can be plumbers, men
can be clerks. If women can be boisterous, men can be quiet. After that, I
was able to deal effectively with anyone who tried to bully me into behaving
in what they thought was a proper masculine role, but that I knew did not
apply to me, however much they may or may not apply to other men.
Interestingly, I began to behave more masculine as well, for I no longer felt
the self-hatred that caused me to reject even my positive "masculine" traits.
(Of course there are no true masculine or feminine traits when it come to
behavior. Each gender are more prone to exhibit some traits than others
because of the influence of hormones. To take an obvious example, because of
testesterone men are more likely than women to be aggressive, but there are
some women who are as aggressive as the most aggressive man, and some men who
are as meek and gentle as the proverbial lamb.)
For years the only "masculine" things about me were my appearance, my taste
in books, music and film and an overwhelming rage. Had I not found feminism,
I would be filling Usenet with anti-male screeds that would make Sarah's
rants sound like something from Hugh Hefner.
I also think the men of my generation and the younger generation are, for the
most part, better fathers, husbands and human beings then the men of my
father's generation. Largely because they have grown up with more reasonable
expectations for themselves, and are not burdened with unrealistic
expectations of what constitutes a "real man" by society.

Kooks group snipped. But, your propensity for kooks noted...

Rauni (LadyWolf@newsguy.com) writes: On 20 Aug 2003 22:53:19 -0700, atheisticmystic@hotmail.com (atheisticmystic) wrote:[....]And you actually tagged Child on Grammar? Your poorly cited andpersonally biased miasma is truly frightening. I'm surprised you canpost such misinformed yammerings and not be horribly embarrassed foryour ignorance. Your mother must have voluntarily chosen to shun yourdisenfranchised father and opted to raise you on welfare with herlesbian lover. My condolences...atheisticmystic Oh this was **GOOD**

For people whose emotions *need* them to be *seen* as " right ",
no matter the facts...

Thanks for showing *your motives* so clearly...
Has to be the reason for the enormous chip on his shoulder.

<yawn> More ASSumptions on the part of people who CAN'T refute
the actual arguments...

My dad and mom were married for 42 years. To each other. Never
to anyone else. That ended with the passing on of my dad.

So, you both just shows that you know NOTHING, but never let
that stand in the way of your creations of *emotive fantasy*...

You just can't imagine someone disagreeing with you on the facts...
So, you have to imagine false " facts ". Kinda makes any claims you
make, suspect, to say the least, since your propensity for *lies
over truth* is now in the open.

How... narcissistic of you.

Too bad, so sad. For you, both.

Andre


--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:09:21 -0600, Bob <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote:
atheisticmystic wrote: Not only is the comment muddy (a mixed metaphor),and inaccurately structured to suggest the only damaging things done to the child are those done by the mother,Wrong dogbert. However mothers, on average, do twice as much childabuse and children raised in single mother homes turn out worse in everymeasurable way. it definitely shows a bias (equating feminism with misandry).Now that's a laugh. Equating misandry with misandry. LOL. Please tellus what bias that might be? Bob should be shot for his idiocy alone.You rank right up there with SCUM. Shooting men who dare disagree withmisandry is the solution. But every dog deserves his day, and you chose to defend his mouth-breathing.How condescending of you. Now pay attention Andre..Child makes a reasonable refutation in the form of a question:LOL, like equating misandry with misandry?>>>>Child wrote:>>>>>>>>>so what does the mountain of research show about the kids whose>>>>>fathers abandon them?>>>> Not only does Child deftly avoid the clumsy mixed-metaphor (which Bob is probably still looking up in the complimentary pocket-dictionary he recieved when he joined Kevin Costner in the male-consciuosness-raising event in the forest, beating on a drum, reading Robert Bly, and singing songs of lament for the loss of his foreskin), she attacks the assumption that only females can damage children. As it is a fact that SOME men DO abandon their families, her question is clear, fair, and as solid as the obsidian matter that comprises Bob's cranium.Your misandry sucks Toots. Stuff it where the sun don't shine.That old feminist rhetoric sow doesn't fly. Get over it.Bob

Bob, what are you so worried about anyway? None of this should concern
you since you're far from being a man.

Glek wrote: For the record, I know of instances where men have abandoned families,

For the record I know many women who claim that their husband abandoned
their family when it was them who did so. It's a very common female lie
about families. Very few females ever admit their own abandonment. Your
"knowledge" is not to be trusted.


Bob

Laughing at Bush wrote: Bob, what are you so worried about anyway? None of this should concern you since you're far from being a man.


The blue gun thug demonstrates his use of classic feminist rhetoric.

Don't worry femroid. Real MEN have your number. You and your little
pantywaste femroid goons work every day to round up MEN and send them
off to Auschwitz for being MEN, but your days are numbered.

We award a Golden Bull to any man who takes one out.

Bob

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 07:58:42 -0600, a team of surgeons from soc.men
removed the following benign growth from Bob:
Child wrote: "stargazer" <stargazer@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:p9f0b.2741$a9.1968@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com... What is the price of asparagus in Alaska anyway?? Sometimes we can get itfor $1.99 a lb. I love fresh asparagus. :) in winter its $4.99 a pound but 2.99$ a pound in summer and 1.99$ on sale but its lousy. we get the worst produce. all the drek the seattlites didn't want.I have a friend

Blob's nose grows another inch.

--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8
The official soc.men FAQ:
<http://www.insurgent.org/~alcatroll/Soc.men/faq.html>

"Bob" <boby23456@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F44EFD9.9080705@hotmail.com... Laughing at Bush wrote: Bob, what are you so worried about anyway? None of this should concern you since you're far from being a man. The blue gun thug demonstrates his use of classic feminist rhetoric. Don't worry femroid. Real MEN have your number. You and your little pantywaste femroid goons work every day to round up MEN and send them off to Auschwitz for being MEN, but your days are numbered. We award a Golden Bull to any man who takes one out. Bob

I've taught Blob the correct spelling of Auschwitz! I feel fulfilled...

John James (JJ)
Please don't burst my bubble. puhleeze. It's *so* hard to be an educator
amongst the sockmen. Every little victory, no matter how insignificant,
keeps us going...

dg411@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven) wrote in
news:bi48ou$cqo$1@freenet9.carleton.ca:
Except its not MOSTLY done by women. Divorce is only one part of the picture. LOL. If that were true, then you could... name the other parts.

Wow, you really don't get it.

There are lots of children born without a present father. No divorce needed for folks who
are never married.



Are you suggesting that, at a time when one of two marriages ends in divorce, with the additional factor that women initiate said divorces over 70% of the time, and rarely for serious reasons, that losing one parent ( While the children are, well, *children*- we're not counting 40 year old " children " losing 70 year old parents here... ) through death can even come *close to matching those separated from their fathers through divorce* ?


No, I am not suggesting that at all. I am not talking about deceased fathers.

You have any numbers to back that enormous claim up, or are you still pulling stuff out of your *** ?

LOL! The king of strawmen is making up some story and then wants me to back it up?




I haven't said anything about "all" either. Maybe, you truly dont' understand. Maybe you snipped it out...

Maybe you made it up.

No, men can also adopt out kids. LOL ! Yeah, IF they have primary sole custody. Given that such as NOW view men even getting *equal access* to their kids as worthy of a " NOW Alert " ( See " Fathers Count Bill To Fund Men's Custody Movement ", www.now.org ), we can see that men don't *get* equal access for custody.

Strawman. Whats that got to do with adoption?


BTW, got any cites for your claim ? Uh huh. Hypocrite who demands from others *what you refuse to put forward yourself*...



You made the claims claims that women are solely responsible for fatherless kids.
You back it up.

So far the only stats you have to offer is one study that says that women file for divorce
more often. That is not the same thing as women being responsible for fatherless kids.



--
BethF, Anchorage, AK

It's YOUR God.
They are YOUR rules.
YOU burn in hell.

Child (beth@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com) writes: dg411@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven) wrote in news:bi48ou$cqo$1@freenet9.carleton.ca: Except its not MOSTLY done by women. Divorce is only one part of the picture. LOL. If that were true, then you could... name the other parts. Wow, you really don't get it.

LOL. Projection...
There are lots of children born without a present father.

Indeed, and thats a wrong against the child. But, thats another topic.
No divorce needed for folks who are never married.

Doesn't change the harms done to children by being *denied* a
parent.
Are you suggesting that, at a time when one of two marriages ends in divorce, with the additional factor that women initiate said divorces over 70% of the time, and rarely for serious reasons, that losing one parent ( While the children are, well, *children*- we're not counting 40 year old " children " losing 70 year old parents here... ) through death can even come *close to matching those separated from their fathers through divorce* ? No, I am not suggesting that at all. I am not talking about deceased fathers.

So, you're limiting yourself to single-by-CHOICE mommies ?

Well:

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*... "
You have any numbers to back that enormous claim up, or are you still pulling stuff out of your *** ? LOL! The king of strawmen is making up some story and then wants me to back it up?

Ad hom and your *inability* to back up your claims noted. <yawn>
I haven't said anything about "all" either. Maybe, you truly dont' understand. Maybe you snipped it out... Maybe you made it up.

Feel free to prove it...
No, men can also adopt out kids. LOL ! Yeah, IF they have primary sole custody. Given that such as NOW view men even getting *equal access* to their kids as worthy of a " NOW Alert " ( See " Fathers Count Bill To Fund Men's Custody Movement ", www.now.org ), we can see that men don't *get* equal access for custody. Strawman. Whats that got to do with adoption?

Non sequitur. The topic was *adopting OUT*. In order to do that,
*you have to have sole custody in the first place*...
BTW, got any cites for your claim ? Uh huh. Hypocrite who demands from others *what you refuse to put forward yourself*... You made the claims claims that women are solely responsible for fatherless kids.

Cites above. Your claims *prior to my comments*, you failed to back up.

Hypocrite.
You back it up.

Done. Where are your cites ? Your *** ?
So far the only stats you have to offer is one study that says that women file

And *choose*...
for divorce more often.

Yep.
That is not the same thing as women being responsible for fatherless kids.

ROTFLMAO ! So, a woman getting a divorce *doesn't* lose the kid the
dad ? What drugs are you on ?

Plus, please show how a *sole choice by an unmarried woman to have
a kid out of wedlock* is in ANY way the guy's " fault ".

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*... "

What part of that do you NOT grasp ?

Andre


--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

In article <8bcd2598.0308241728.56e4907f@posting.google.com>,
robbielynn10@yahoo.com (robbielynn) wrote:
What is a misandrist? I am well read but not familiar with this term. I know a misanthrope is one who hates all people. Whew, that would be a tough job. By the way, there are plenty of men who haven't been good fathers or paid child support adequately or have been abusive but I will stick up for men who have been lied about and abused by angry women who use false accusations for their own twisted purposes. I have been a daughter who experienced it and I have been a volunteer in the area of children's social services. I have seen the evil some women have done and their children would be better off with out them...at least until they have counseling and pay some sort of debt for the damage they have done. robbielynn

You have to ask? Do you not know what www.google.com, www.yahoo.com, or
www.dictionary.com is?

Here is the url for putting in misandrist at www.google.com
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=misandrist