I will give the whole story with no BS...

My father was recently "fired" from a company in New York State.
Basically, he worked as a laborer (making about 22K per year for an
individual who runs a property management company (they maintain
apartments). My Dad is about 55 years old and has diabetes (not that
that is relevant in any way)...

Here is the story.

My father requested three days off at the end of the month. He had
purchased travel tickets and concert tickets and was really set on
going... He requested this time off months ahead of time. The owner
was evasive and said they should talk about it later... When the time
got closer, the owner said "so, you are taking that one day off", and
my father said " you know I need those 3 days off. The owner asked my
Dad to go into the hall so they could talk. The owner said "you know
my employee manual says that non-compliance regarding vacation time is
grounds for my firing you...You are fired.

My questions:
1) My father is concerned that he will not get unemployment benefits.
Should he be worried.

2) Is there any case for a wrongful firing...did he really have cause?

3) My father supports a 14 year old son alone, and ownes a home with a
$550 per month mortgage payment. If he is left high and dry, are
there any programs out there that may help him? Social Security? He
is overweight and has diabetes. Is there a possibility of disibility?

Thanks for any help or thoughts you have... I am quite capable or
researching things if you point me in the direction of the proper
resources. Thank you.

"jwill" <john_williams1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c507e9fa.0307281056.1deae33e@posting.google.c om...
My father requested three days off at the end of the month. He had purchased travel tickets and concert tickets and was really set on going... He requested this time off months ahead of time. The owner was evasive and said they should talk about it later... When the time got closer, the owner said "so, you are taking that one day off", and my father said " you know I need those 3 days off. The owner asked my Dad to go into the hall so they could talk. The owner said "you know my employee manual says that non-compliance regarding vacation time is grounds for my firing you...You are fired. My questions: 1) My father is concerned that he will not get unemployment benefits. Should he be worried.

probably at least a little; but from what you say, he was fired BEFORE he
violated any employee manual provisions ?? hard to say; your report would
indicate that the boss man asked for confirmation of intent to take the time
off, and "you know I need those 3 days off" might constitute such
confirmation ... and it might not ... I would certainly argue that I was
only *asking* for the time off and in fact would have reported for work ...
and accordingly, it's a termination "not for cause"
2) Is there any case for a wrongful firing...did he really have cause?

again, hard to say for the above reasons
3) My father supports a 14 year old son alone, and ownes a home with a $550 per month mortgage payment. If he is left high and dry, are there any programs out there that may help him? Social Security? He is overweight and has diabetes. Is there a possibility of disibility?

dunno on this one ...

wait for other replies; I just thought I'd answer with a few thoughts since
we're all so preoccupied with IMPORTANT **** like Kobe Bryant's future ...
post again if you don't get the help you're looking for

bottom line is I would file the UI claim pronto and if they oppose it I
would INSIST that it was not for cause, that I only ASKED for the time off,
that I was ready, willing and able to come to work, blah, blah, blah ... UI
employees have a tendency to favor the applicant ...

in the meantime, you might hit the phonebook or the web and see what you can
dig up on your own regarding "any programs"

finally, he obviously should start seeking new employment !! (some people
actually forget this while they get tied up in the UI and benefit business)

btw, sounds like your father worked for a ****head, but, to be clear, it is
highly unlikely that he had any RIGHT to the day(s) off ....

"jwill" <john_williams1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c507e9fa.0307281056.1deae33e@posting.google.c om... I will give the whole story with no BS... My father was recently "fired" from a company in New York State. Basically, he worked as a laborer (making about 22K per year for an individual who runs a property management company (they maintain apartments). My Dad is about 55 years old and has diabetes (not that that is relevant in any way)... Here is the story. My father requested three days off at the end of the month. He had purchased travel tickets and concert tickets and was really set on going... He requested this time off months ahead of time. The owner was evasive and said they should talk about it later... When the time got closer, the owner said "so, you are taking that one day off", and my father said " you know I need those 3 days off. The owner asked my Dad to go into the hall so they could talk. The owner said "you know my employee manual says that non-compliance regarding vacation time is grounds for my firing you...You are fired. My questions: 1) My father is concerned that he will not get unemployment benefits. Should he be worried. 2) Is there any case for a wrongful firing...did he really have cause?

Perhaps a case. An attorney would know for sure.
Since this was not "a spur of the moment" action on his part, but rather,
advanced planning, and therefor known to the employer, the employer may not
take action on a proposed fact.
When the employee returns from the off time, then the employer can do so.
But not before.
As for benefits, he will get some but not 100%.
3) My father supports a 14 year old son alone, and ownes a home with a $550 per month mortgage payment. If he is left high and dry, are there any programs out there that may help him? Social Security? He is overweight and has diabetes. Is there a possibility of disibility?

For that you need to check around with the county and city courts to see if
there is any state aid available and ask them who else might help.

You need an attorney now.

Thanks for any help or thoughts you have... I am quite capable or researching things if you point me in the direction of the proper resources. Thank you.

"Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message
news:bg4bn20288e@enews4.newsguy.com...
My father requested three days off at the end of the month. He had purchased travel tickets and concert tickets and was really set on going... He requested this time off months ahead of time. The owner was evasive and said they should talk about it later... When the time got closer, the owner said "so, you are taking that one day off", and my father said " you know I need those 3 days off. The owner asked my Dad to go into the hall so they could talk. The owner said "you know my employee manual says that non-compliance regarding vacation time is grounds for my firing you...You are fired. My questions: 1) My father is concerned that he will not get unemployment benefits. Should he be worried. 2) Is there any case for a wrongful firing...did he really have cause? Perhaps a case. An attorney would know for sure. Since this was not "a spur of the moment" action on his part, but rather, advanced planning, and therefor known to the employer, the employer may
not take action on a proposed fact. When the employee returns from the off time, then the employer can do so. But not before.

crap; nearly all employment is "at will," which means most people can be
fired for any reason or no reason at all ... if your father had a contract
of employment or if he was dismissed for an impermissible reason (age, race,
gender ...) then he might have a case ... there are some grey areas here and
there but by and large, those are the applicable rules of the road
As for benefits, he will get some but not 100%.

more crap; there's no sliding scale based on reason for separation ... if
what Richard is trying to say is that he won't get 100% of his last
paycheck, I believe that's true of all UI recipients ...
3) My father supports a 14 year old son alone, and ownes a home with a $550 per month mortgage payment. If he is left high and dry, are there any programs out there that may help him? Social Security? He is overweight and has diabetes. Is there a possibility of disibility? For that you need to check around with the county and city courts to see
if there is any state aid available and ask them who else might help.

courts don't deal in the administration of social welfare programs
You need an attorney now.

since money is apparently a problem, if you think there's a chance he has a
meritorious cause, try calling a few lawyers in your area and getting a
preliminary phone consultation ... a lot of lawyers will do this for no fee
(a lot of people have a hard time believing this, but it's actually true ..
note I did not say all lawyers)

"BoatMan" <BoatMan0609@aol.com> wrote in message
news:gejVa.1140551$mA4.159808@news.easynews.com... "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message news:bg4bn20288e@enews4.newsguy.com... My father requested three days off at the end of the month. He had purchased travel tickets and concert tickets and was really set on going... He requested this time off months ahead of time. The owner was evasive and said they should talk about it later... When the time got closer, the owner said "so, you are taking that one day off", and my father said " you know I need those 3 days off. The owner asked my Dad to go into the hall so they could talk. The owner said "you know my employee manual says that non-compliance regarding vacation time is grounds for my firing you...You are fired. My questions: 1) My father is concerned that he will not get unemployment benefits. Should he be worried. 2) Is there any case for a wrongful firing...did he really have cause? Perhaps a case. An attorney would know for sure. Since this was not "a spur of the moment" action on his part, but
rather, advanced planning, and therefor known to the employer, the employer may not take action on a proposed fact. When the employee returns from the off time, then the employer can do
so. But not before. crap; nearly all employment is "at will," which means most people can be fired for any reason or no reason at all ... if your father had a contract of employment or if he was dismissed for an impermissible reason (age,
race, gender ...) then he might have a case ... there are some grey areas here
and there but by and large, those are the applicable rules of the road

Not necessarily legally. As a trucker, even though I am hired "at will", I
can not be fired because I refused to drive an unsafe vehicle or any number
of other conditions.
The company can not fire me because I would not drive illegally out of
hours.
Even though "at wll" companies have blanket policies, there may be some
intsances where state and federal laws over ride those policies.
The real problem is, nobody ever challenges the termination to see if there
was in fact a law violated.

For instance, you work in an environment which requires you to observe
various federal regulations.
Your employer tells you not to follow those regulations and do the job
regardless or be fired.
Or maybe the employer chooses to ignore the regulations altogether.
You get fired because you refused to obey his order.
You have legal recourse to challenge the illegal termination.
Even though the employer is "at will".

As for benefits, he will get some but not 100%. more crap; there's no sliding scale based on reason for separation ... if what Richard is trying to say is that he won't get 100% of his last paycheck, I believe that's true of all UI recipients ...

If you are fired by your employer and acquire UI compensation, the state
will determine how much you get, and if you get any.
In Ohio, you get 50% of your average paycheck for the previous 26 weeks.
As long as you worked those 26 weeks.
Here in wisconsin, you get 40% of your previous quarter's income.


3) My father supports a 14 year old son alone, and ownes a home with a $550 per month mortgage payment. If he is left high and dry, are there any programs out there that may help him? Social Security? He is overweight and has diabetes. Is there a possibility of disibility? For that you need to check around with the county and city courts to see if there is any state aid available and ask them who else might help. courts don't deal in the administration of social welfare programs

No. But they would have information on who would deal with it.

You need an attorney now. since money is apparently a problem, if you think there's a chance he has
a meritorious cause, try calling a few lawyers in your area and getting a preliminary phone consultation ... a lot of lawyers will do this for no
fee (a lot of people have a hard time believing this, but it's actually true
... note I did not say all lawyers)

BoatMan,

I think the original question is not about "at will" employment, but
about unemployment benefits. The original poster may have left out some
important details however, he suggests that his father was fired for wanting
some time off. The unemployed person should file for unemployment benefits
and consult with a lawyer if he is turned down.
As to the second question, whether there is a case to sue the former
employer for something, That will depend on lots of unknowns. Many attorneys
give free initial consults. Interviewing several attorneys will help to
answer this question.

Good luck,
Dave M.

"David Martel" <marte005@hostingstorm.net> wrote in message
news:AvtVa.26209$Mc.2041928@newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
BoatMan,
I think the original question is not about "at will" employment, but about unemployment benefits. The original poster may have left out some important details however, he suggests that his father was fired for
wanting some time off.

David,

the UI benefits were addressed first ... the OP also asked "2) Is there any
case for a wrongful firing...did he really have cause?" ... "at will"
employment is implicated here
The unemployed person should file for unemployment benefits

a course of action which of course has been recommended
and consult with a lawyer if he is turned down.

not an easy prospect given the apparent amounts in controversy and uncertain
prospects of success
As to the second question, whether there is a case to sue the former employer for something, That will depend on lots of unknowns.

this is where the "at will" commentary came in
Many attorneys give free initial consults. Interviewing several attorneys will help to answer this question.

which I also suggested ....

are you correcting me or reiterating my comments ? I suspect you did not
read the entire thread ...

"David Martel" <marte005@hostingstorm.net> wrote:
BoatMan, I think the original question is not about "at will" employment, butabout unemployment benefits. The original poster may have left out someimportant details however, he suggests that his father was fired for wantingsome time off. The unemployed person should file for unemployment benefitsand consult with a lawyer if he is turned down. As to the second question, whether there is a case to sue the formeremployer for something, That will depend on lots of unknowns. Many attorneysgive free initial consults. Interviewing several attorneys will help toanswer this question.Good luck,Dave M.

I generally agree. My understanding of the OP's post was
that the OP was looking for something s/he could do to help dad who
is probably in a tough spot. What the OP needs to do is help dad out
of the funk he's probably in and to do as you have suggested:
promptly apply for unemployment and promptly consult a lawyer
if it is denied. That hopefully gets some money flowing and buys
a little time to sort the situation out.

Dad also needs to get out and look for a job, unless his health
status is quite severe, in which case disability benefits may be
available. The facts given do not quite raise that, although health
was mentioned including reference to a serious illness (Diabetes
- which is hopefully under control). The OP can help dad by
encouraging him to eat, exercise, and medicate properly
and maintain firm control of his health.

My own view is that the nature of the employment is not a
guessing game for us to sort out here (whether "at-will" or not).
But the employer's reference to an emloyee manual is of
significance, and Boatmen's observation that the employer
may have jumped the gun on cause is also well taken. The
quoted comment suggests to me a pretext. The OP
can help dad by encouraginging him to consult a lawyer
where more precise advice can be obtained. There are
an impressive array of State and Federal employment laws
prohibiting such things as age discrimination, which a lawyer
will necessarily need to consider using facts which are
probably not available to the OP (ie I ain't askin.)..

The OP may have been left the impression by another poster
that attorneys will provide a "preliminary phone consultation".
More likely whoever answers the phone will know if the lawyer
handles employment law cases, and if so will schedule an
in-office consultation with dad. At that point a question about
any consultation fee can be brought up. A small consultation
fee ($20-50) is not exceptional, as some lawyers use that
device to minimize frivolous inquiries, but in any case of
genuine hardship even such modest fees are, I believe,
often waived. The OP should also know that a consultation
does not mean the lawyer will handle the case, and more than
one lawyer may need to be consulted.

-Merlin