You know,
It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive
issue in American society.

No, I'm NOT an adoptee.

I'm NOT a birth parent.

I'm NOT an adoptive parent.

What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own
"natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful,
loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find
"birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they were
parents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parent
entails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptive
parent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARN
the right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such
qualifications? Of course not!

IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, of
course, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST be
preferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when I
was a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some
good, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.

Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have been
MUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving a
child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, nor
rejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the
responsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,
loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or
would you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased
in ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.

I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids
in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose
them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who
have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how
lucky you are.

Top posting:

Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?
Subject: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: (c)Date: 2/12/04 3:16 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>You know,It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasiveissue in American society.No, I'm NOT an adoptee.I'm NOT a birth parent.I'm NOT an adoptive parent.What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own"natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful,loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find"birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they wereparents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parententails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptiveparent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARNthe right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have suchqualifications? Of course not!IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, ofcourse, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST bepreferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when Iwas a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished somegood, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have beenMUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving achild up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.




-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn)
wrote:
Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?

No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about
exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize
that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.
And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances
about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for
the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff --
when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.
But then, I also think many of you adoptees have bought into this
distorted media hype.Subject: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: (c)Date: 2/12/04 3:16 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>You know,It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasiveissue in American society.No, I'm NOT an adoptee.I'm NOT a birth parent.I'm NOT an adoptive parent.What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own"natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful,loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find"birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they wereparents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parententails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptiveparent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARNthe right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have suchqualifications? Of course not!IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, ofcourse, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST bepreferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when Iwas a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished somegood, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have beenMUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving achild up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.-------------------------A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend willbe sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"-----Unknown

> (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they wereparents)

Yeah, imagine. I mean, they were the mother and father just before they lost
the baby to adoption. Imagine, thinking the umbilical cord connected the baby
to his or her mother!
Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have suchqualifications? Of course not!

The toughest job in the world has one prequalification: half an hour of fun.


(no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST bepreferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents.

Why weren't your parents in jail? The refusal or failure of the State
government to jail violent criminals is not an excuse to curtail the rights of
innocent persons.

Tom

http://adoption.com.ws
http://withchild.us

***top post***

So sorry for your unfortunate childhood, (c). However, your misfortune does not
qualify you to pontificate on adoption issues nor tell people who were adopted
to "get over it". You might have justifiable rage. However, you are most
definitely spewing it at the wrong target.


(c) writes:
You know,It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasiveissue in American society.No, I'm NOT an adoptee.I'm NOT a birth parent.I'm NOT an adoptive parent.What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own"natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful,loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find"birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they wereparents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parententails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptiveparent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARNthe right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have suchqualifications? Of course not!IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, ofcourse, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST bepreferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when Iwas a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished somegood, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have beenMUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving achild up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.




P2P

(c) claims:
I am a published author...and plan to write a novel aboutexactly what I have stated in my message. >>

Huh? What, exactly, is your message? What do you feel makes you qualified to
chastise people who were adopted for anything at all? How about this? So you
were abused as a child. Get over it. How selfish, self centered, ungrateful
you are to complain. You are alive. It is probably all in your head. In fact,
chances are you imagined most of your "abuses". Stop making a big deal of
them. Are you just trying to make your mother and father sad? Haven't you
heard of the power of forgiveness?

How'd you enjoy *that* book?


P2P

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: (c)Date: 2/12/2004
In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel aboutexactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realizethat you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.

Letting you in on a secret, first open records, then the world. We know that
our adoptive status guaranteed us a superior upbringing but we would never gain
anything admitting it because too many kept people would be jealous and try to
keep us supressed. Please don't put this in your book, it could spoil
everything. Kathy J

In article <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>, c says...You know,

"Troll, troll, troll your boat,
Gently down the stream...."

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

In article <402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>, c says...On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn)wrote:Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel aboutexactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realizethat you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stancesabout open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, forthe "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff --when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.But then, I also think many of you adoptees have bought into thisdistorted media hype.

Ahem...With all due respect, my dear, while I am sorry that you supposedly had a
bad childhood, I would still like to invite you to kindly blow it out your ***.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

Yeh, I know what you mean - as an adoptee I never got that pony I was promised
and am mad as hell.

DMC


Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: dmc10709@aol.com (Dmc10709)Date: 2/12/04 4:52 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040212185259.21885.00001929@mb-m14.aol.com>Yeh, I know what you mean - as an adoptee I never got that pony I waspromisedand am mad as hell.DMC

LOL!


-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

<c> wrote in message news:402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net...
snipped


We would all like to buy your book, but can't find anything published by c.

You'll have to post your name and the name of the book you wrote.

Doug Thomas

In article <20040212185259.21885.00001929@mb-m14.aol.com>, Dmc10709 says...Yeh, I know what you mean - as an adoptee I never got that pony I was promisedand am mad as hell.DMC

Ya know, neither did I! All I got was a pet sheep named Buckwheat (may he rest
in peace). Hardly a substitute! I mean, it's not like you could ride the damn
thing. Neither did I get a Lexus! All I got was a Ford Escort! Crap!

Damn, I feel cheated :)Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

And I bet your nmom never got that Lexus. Adoption is SO unfair!

Marley


"Dmc10709" <dmc10709@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040212185259.21885.00001929@mb-m14.aol.com... Yeh, I know what you mean - as an adoptee I never got that pony I was
promised and am mad as hell. DMCGiving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing,
norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.

So you are an author? What makes you think that everyone who is adopted
is automatically saved from abuse?

I know many people who were adopted and severely abused by their
adoptive families.

Many of these same people came from abusive homes and suffered as bad if
not worse than when they were in their natural family.

Are you going to put that in the novel also?

Frankly, I do know some adoptees who would much rather have never been
born.

And what the H is wrong with having a happy birthfamily reunion? (if one
is lucky enough to get it).

jmf




Re: Message to ALL adoptees

Group: alt.adoption Date: Thu, Feb 12, 2004, 10:28pm (CST+6) From: (c)
On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote:
Top posting:
Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?
No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about
exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize that
you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. And
that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about
open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for the
"media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -- when in
fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad. But then, I
also think many of you adoptees have bought into this distorted media
hype.
Subject: Message to ALL adoptees
From: (c)
Date: 2/12/04 3:16 PM Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>
You know,
It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive
issue in American society.
No, I'm NOT an adoptee.
I'm NOT a birth parent.
I'm NOT an adoptive parent.
What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own
"natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful,
loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find
"birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they were
parents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parent
entails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptive
parent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARN
the right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such
qualifications? Of course not!
IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, of
course, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST be
preferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when I was
a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some good,
caring "loving" couple would adopt me.
Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have been MUCH
worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving a child up to
a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, nor rejection;
perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the responsibility
of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good, loving home.
Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or would you
adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased in ALL
countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.
I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids
in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose
them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who
have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how
lucky you are.
-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true
friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

In article <QiUWb.3051$_4.238@www.newsranger.com>,
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:"Troll, troll, troll your boat,Gently down the stream...."

My sentiments exactly.

I hope the doc ups her 'script for the heavy duty tranquilizers; she
certainly seems to need it.

Linda

In article <402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>, c says...On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn)wrote:Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?No. In fact, I am a published author...

I bet.

and plan to write a novel aboutexactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realizethat you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.

And I should give a **** what other people think because...............?
And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stancesabout open adoptive records.

See above.

I don't even blame you completely, forthe "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff --when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.But then, I also think many of you adoptees have bought into thisdistorted media hype.

So what? What's it to you anyway?

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

<c> wrote in message news:402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net... No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.

<de-lurking for this>
C,

Please don't presume that I would like you to speak for me......because I
don't. Write all you'd like about your poor poor life as an abused bio
child. Write about it all day long if you'd like. But what that has to do
with adoption is beyond me.

Pat
Reunited adoptee and Reunited Birthmom

<c> wrote in message news:402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net... You know, It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive issue in American society.

I missed it. It can't be that pervasive.

No, I'm NOT an adoptee. I'm NOT a birth parent. I'm NOT an adoptive parent.


Of course. You're just someone whining about your own abuse and wishing you
were adopted. This makes you an expert.

What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own "natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful, loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find "birth parents"

Why does it "ENRAGE" you? All in all it's really none of your concern.

(what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they were parents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers.

Back to you, huh?



Being a parent entails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptive parent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARN the right to adopt.

There is no "right" to adopt. It's a priviledge. That said, I find it
interesting that abuse in adoptive homes is as prevelent as abuse in homes
where no adoption has occured.


Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such qualifications? Of course not!

Do you suggest getting state approval everytime you want to get laid?
IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, of course, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST be preferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when I was a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some good, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.


Well, you weren't. So, maybe you should take your own advice below.

Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT.


Get over what? That you weren't adopted? I'm fine with it.

Trust me, things could have been MUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, nor rejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the responsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good, loving home.


Look at it this way, bub. Things could have been worse for you if you were
adopted. Ya never know. There's no guarantees with adoption.


Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or would you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased in ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.


Really? I'd love to see those stats. Personally, I think you're pulling
that out of your ***.


I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how lucky you are.


Ahhh...so we Bastards are at fault for the foster care system's failures?
This is why? We're not grateful enough? Bizarre.


Jack

<c> wrote in message news:402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net... On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote:Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message.


Well, a novel would be appropriate. Fiction seems to be your forte.


Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.


Really? To whom?

And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about open adoptive records.


Why? What's so radical about obtaining the legal information that the state
gathered on us regarding our births and circumstances?? I suspect you are
able to obtain such documents.

I don't even blame you completely, for the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -- when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.

Got any stats on that or is it a personal opinion? What comprimises a "bad"
reunion, IYE?

But then, I also think many of you adoptees have bought into this distorted media hype.

Ahh...I get it now. You're one of those folks who believes that open
records actually has something to do with adoptees and their parents (both a
and b). Look doofus, it's about our relationship with the state. Until you
get that, you might want to stick to whining about how you were abused and
only wish you could be one of us.

Jack

"Jack Bernhard" <jcbernhard@deletethisprodigy.net> wrote in message
news:668Xb.20935$BN7.15710@newssvr16.news.prodigy. com... <c> wrote in message news:402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net... On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote:Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message. Well, a novel would be appropriate. Fiction seems to be your forte. Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. Really? To whom? And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about open adoptive records. Why? What's so radical about obtaining the legal information that the
state gathered on us regarding our births and circumstances?? I suspect you
are able to obtain such documents.

No doubt Mr/Ms C loves the Patriot Act and can't wait for it's sequel.

Marley

<c> wrote in message news:402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net...


You know, It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive issue in American society.


I tell you, when I was a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some good, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.

As an adopted person, I promise not to steal your victimhood thunder.


Jack

"Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Ui8Xb.30525$fV5.645791@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... "Jack Bernhard" <jcbernhard@deletethisprodigy.net> wrote in message news:668Xb.20935$BN7.15710@newssvr16.news.prodigy. com... <c> wrote in message news:402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net... On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote: >Top posting: > >Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message. Well, a novel would be appropriate. Fiction seems to be your forte. Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. Really? To whom? And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about open adoptive records. Why? What's so radical about obtaining the legal information that the state gathered on us regarding our births and circumstances?? I suspect you are able to obtain such documents. No doubt Mr/Ms C loves the Patriot Act and can't wait for it's sequel. Marley

Possibly, but I think there's an even more simpleminded view point here. I
think the poster has this bizarre notion that somehow our struggle for open
records will somehow result in an increase in child abuse, continuing
failures in the foster care system, an epidemic of abortions and a flood of
wonderful and loving wannabe parents who are saddened by the inability to
obtain a Bastard.

Who knew we wielded such a mighty sword? Victims, hell!

Jack

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: "Jack Bernhard" jcbernhard@deletethisprodigy.netDate: 2/13/2004 12:37 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <QX7Xb.20934$7Q7.812@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>

< snip >
There is no "right" to adopt. It's a priviledge.

Damn straight.
That said, I find it interesting that abuse in adoptive homes is as prevelentas abuse in homes where no adoption has occured.

That's a relief. I won't mention them, but there are some Origins who
believe Origins that adoptive parents Origins abuse their children Origins to a
far greater degree than Origins biological parents.
Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such qualifications? Of course not!Do you suggest getting state approval everytime you want to get laid?

I think you should need a license to procreate, and a permit for each and
every time you get laid. Think of the tax revenues!

Dad

"AdoptaDad" <adoptadad@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040213145222.27248.00001868@mb-m11.aol.com...Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: "Jack Bernhard" jcbernhard@deletethisprodigy.netDate: 2/13/2004 12:37 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <QX7Xb.20934$7Q7.812@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com> < snip >There is no "right" to adopt. It's a priviledge. Damn straight.

It could a privilege, too. Sheesh.

That said, I find it interesting that abuse in adoptive homes is as
prevelent

Who stole my goddamn spellcheck?

as abuse in homes where no adoption has occured.


That's a relief. I won't mention them, but there are some Origins who believe Origins that adoptive parents Origins abuse their children Origins
to a far greater degree than Origins biological parents.


Heheh. Reminds me vaguely of some old SNL skit about subliminal messages.
Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such qualifications? Of course not!Do you suggest getting state approval everytime you want to get laid? I think you should need a license to procreate, and a permit for each
and every time you get laid. Think of the tax revenues!

They'd go broke on me, lately.

Out of town Jack

>(c)Date: 2/12/2004 5:16 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>You know,It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasiveissue in American society.No, I'm NOT an adoptee.I'm NOT a birth parent.I'm NOT an adoptive parent.

Blah, blah blah. You're not many things. But one thing you are is ignorant and
tiresome.

What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own"natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful,loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find"birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they wereparents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parententails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptiveparent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARNthe right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have suchqualifications? Of course not!IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, ofcourse, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST bepreferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when Iwas a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished somegood, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have beenMUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving achild up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, norrejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept theresponsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Orwould you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increasedin ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kidsin foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choosethem - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" whohave already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know howlucky you are.


kj

"kj" <kjs668@aol.comeek> wrote in message
news:20040213172528.28349.00001836@mb-m15.aol.com...(c)Date: 2/12/2004 5:16 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>You know,It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasiveissue in American society.No, I'm NOT an adoptee.I'm NOT a birth parent.I'm NOT an adoptive parent. Blah, blah blah. You're not many things. But one thing you are is
ignorant and tiresome.

Don't you just want to go out and abuse "c"?

Marley

>"Marley Greiner" maddogmarley@worldnet.att.netDate: 2/13/2004 5:51 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <8ycXb.15682$hR.457001@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>"kj" <kjs668@aol.comeek> wrote in messagenews:20040213172528.28349.00001836@mb-m15.aol.com...(c)Date: 2/12/2004 5:16 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>You know,It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasiveissue in American society.No, I'm NOT an adoptee.I'm NOT a birth parent.I'm NOT an adoptive parent. Blah, blah blah. You're not many things. But one thing you are isignorant and tiresome.Don't you just want to go out and abuse "c"?Marley

Actually, I was going to say that "c" was begging to be abused, but then I
would have had to add a disclaimer... But to answer your question, I do want
to abuse "c," but I'm afraid he/she wouldn't like it as much as my cat does.




kj

> Robibnikoff nospam@newsranger.comDate: 2/12/2004 7:50 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <jbVWb.3055$_4.191@www.newsranger.com>In article <20040212185259.21885.00001929@mb-m14.aol.com>, Dmc10709 says...Yeh, I know what you mean - as an adoptee I never got that pony I waspromisedand am mad as hell.DMCYa know, neither did I! All I got was a pet sheep named Buckwheat (may herestin peace). Hardly a substitute! I mean, it's not like you could ride thedamnthing. Neither did I get a Lexus! All I got was a Ford Escort! Crap!Damn, I feel cheated :)

No car, no pony. sniff.
Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing,nor>rejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the>responsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good,>loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or>would you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased>in ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.>>I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids>in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose>them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who>have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how>lucky you are.RobynResident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster#1557


kj

Interesting insight from you "adoptees"...which I am certain will
enhance the novel-in-progress. A little bitter, are we? A little
sarcastic, are we? Hmmm, I never said "I" was a victim -- even though
I did suffer at the hands of my "natural" parents. You people need to
just "grow up."

Perhaps you would like to read about the "horror" stories of adoptees
too? Here's an example from a message board:

http://www.justicejunction.com/measure_58_tracey.htm


Measure 58 - Tracey's Story

Adoption affects each person differently. There are good stories,
there are bad, but in the end it's always the same. Read Tracey's
story of a reunion that she didn't ask for, perhaps didn't really want
at all:


Firstly let me say that I was born and raised (and still live) in
Australia. I am an adoptee.

Here, the legislation allowing for "reunion" of adoptees and birth
parents is extrordinarily easy - the adoptee (if over the age of 16)
may apply for their original birth certificate showing the birth
mother and any named birth father. Also birth parents can apply
likewise for the adoption certificate of their child, which states the
adopting parents' names, etc...

I was born in 1967 - my birth mother contacted me in 2000 via a letter
to my parents asking if I knew I was adopted (yes I did) and would
they have any objections to her contacting me?

My parents passed the letter on to me, much discussion ensued, and I
eventually let curiosity get the better of me, not to mention that I
believed that the woman had some vague right to know that I had been
"brought up right" and was a functioning member of society.

Now - I have never been plagued with the so common attitude displayed
by many adoptees of "where did I come from?" or "who am I?" - I also
have a great set of parents who love me unconditionally - as I do
them.

Anyways - I talked to my birth mother on the phone a few times - we
sent photos to each other - my mother also sent a collection of
childhood photos of me growing up... Then my birth mother wanted a
face to face meeting.

No problems said I, and we met. Of course I asked about my birth
father - she said he had died in the Vietnam War (stepped on a land
mine she said). So me being the inquisitive type figured that his name
would be on the memorial for such victims... His name was not there,
so I made a few inquiries in case his name had been missed somehow -
nope - he was sent to Vietnam, he was injured, but he did not die -
he's alive and well to this day with a wife and 3 children.

So - I go back to my birth mother with this information, she gets in
contact with him, and he calls me on the phone saying that my birth
mother had actually been at his wedding to his wife - as well as the
fact that he really doesn't want any contact with me - that's fair I
reckon - he has a life and doesn't need me popping up and complicating
things - I have a suspicion that his family does not know about me,
and I think that he has the right to privacy. (I wish I did!)

This is where the story turns into a nightmare for me - I start geting
drunken calls from my birth mother bewailing that this man had died in
Vietnam, blah, blah... despite the fact that she had managed to talk
to him only a few weeks prior. She turns up on my doorstep drunk and
keeps wailing about the fact he died. I promptly spiral into a nice
little breakdown of my own...

OK - so that's my story - back to the issue at hand...

Who is to say what "rights" an adoptee or a birth parent has after the
fact? I'm firmly of the opinion that the laws etc are made by people
who have not been on the receiving end of a "reunion" - either good or
bad. Most people have the opinion that bringing two people together is
a good thing for all involved...

I'm here to say that happy reunions are not always the case - but you
don't hear about the reunions gone wrong in the media - don't make for
the "warm fuzzies" really... can't sell papers, magazines, etc with
these kinds of "tragedies" - the general public is being led to
believe that all reunions have a happy ending - WRONG!

I have just one thing to say to the agencies that assist/facilitate
the reunion process - take a step back and consider ALL the possible
outcomes of a reunion - not all of us receipients appreciate your
"enthusiasm".

I contacted the agency that helped my birth mother find me - I was
verbally given "the finger" basically - the woman told me it was my
"moral obligation" to meet this person who had given birth to me!?!
She was not interested in giving me any details about my birth mother,
but attempted to get MY address and phone number so that my birth
mother could contact me directly - I thought that was a bit rude to
say the least - so much for the Salvation Army...

Right now I'm still trying to work out how to tell this woman that I
don't want anything more to do with her - I hoped that not responding
to the messages on my answering machine may have given her some idea -
but 6 months later, she's still phoning me... but I'm basically a nice
person and can't just say "piss off and get out of my life" which is
actually how I feel.

What do you say to the person who gave birth to you when she feels
some bond that you do not? She keeps saying that she doesn't want to
take the place of my mother - what makes her think she can? She keeps
saying that she loves me - she doesn't even know me...

Thanks for reading my rant...lol! I don't normally do this - but I
felt strongly enough after reading your article that I just had to say
something....

--Tracey




On 15 Feb 2004 17:31:37 GMT, kjs668@aol.comeek (kj) wrote:
"Marley Greiner" maddogmarley@worldnet.att.netDate: 2/13/2004 5:51 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <8ycXb.15682$hR.457001@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>"kj" <kjs668@aol.comeek> wrote in messagenews:20040213172528.28349.00001836@mb-m15.aol.com... >(c) >Date: 2/12/2004 5:16 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net> > >You know, >It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive >issue in American society. > >No, I'm NOT an adoptee. > >I'm NOT a birth parent. > >I'm NOT an adoptive parent. > Blah, blah blah. You're not many things. But one thing you are isignorant and tiresome.Don't you just want to go out and abuse "c"?MarleyActually, I was going to say that "c" was begging to be abused, but then Iwould have had to add a disclaimer... But to answer your question, I do wantto abuse "c," but I'm afraid he/she wouldn't like it as much as my cat does.kj

Oh oh! Remember who else likes to write "adoptees" in quotes? What does
this story have to do with Measure 58? Nothing. Measure 58 which was
passed by the electorate of Oregon restored the right of obc access to
adopted persons upon request. There is nothing in it about records access
to nparents. Apparently Tracey wants the state intervene in her
inconvenience. A liberal no doubt.

Marley



<c> wrote in message news:4033e2b0.28061602@news.highstream.net... Interesting insight from you "adoptees"...which I am certain will enhance the novel-in-progress. A little bitter, are we? A little sarcastic, are we? Hmmm, I never said "I" was a victim -- even though I did suffer at the hands of my "natural" parents. You people need to just "grow up." Perhaps you would like to read about the "horror" stories of adoptees too? Here's an example from a message board: http://www.justicejunction.com/measure_58_tracey.htm Measure 58 - Tracey's Story Adoption affects each person differently. There are good stories, there are bad, but in the end it's always the same. Read Tracey's story of a reunion that she didn't ask for, perhaps didn't really want at all: Firstly let me say that I was born and raised (and still live) in Australia. I am an adoptee. Here, the legislation allowing for "reunion" of adoptees and birth parents is extrordinarily easy - the adoptee (if over the age of 16) may apply for their original birth certificate showing the birth mother and any named birth father. Also birth parents can apply likewise for the adoption certificate of their child, which states the adopting parents' names, etc... I was born in 1967 - my birth mother contacted me in 2000 via a letter to my parents asking if I knew I was adopted (yes I did) and would they have any objections to her contacting me? My parents passed the letter on to me, much discussion ensued, and I eventually let curiosity get the better of me, not to mention that I believed that the woman had some vague right to know that I had been "brought up right" and was a functioning member of society. Now - I have never been plagued with the so common attitude displayed by many adoptees of "where did I come from?" or "who am I?" - I also have a great set of parents who love me unconditionally - as I do them. Anyways - I talked to my birth mother on the phone a few times - we sent photos to each other - my mother also sent a collection of childhood photos of me growing up... Then my birth mother wanted a face to face meeting. No problems said I, and we met. Of course I asked about my birth father - she said he had died in the Vietnam War (stepped on a land mine she said). So me being the inquisitive type figured that his name would be on the memorial for such victims... His name was not there, so I made a few inquiries in case his name had been missed somehow - nope - he was sent to Vietnam, he was injured, but he did not die - he's alive and well to this day with a wife and 3 children. So - I go back to my birth mother with this information, she gets in contact with him, and he calls me on the phone saying that my birth mother had actually been at his wedding to his wife - as well as the fact that he really doesn't want any contact with me - that's fair I reckon - he has a life and doesn't need me popping up and complicating things - I have a suspicion that his family does not know about me, and I think that he has the right to privacy. (I wish I did!) This is where the story turns into a nightmare for me - I start geting drunken calls from my birth mother bewailing that this man had died in Vietnam, blah, blah... despite the fact that she had managed to talk to him only a few weeks prior. She turns up on my doorstep drunk and keeps wailing about the fact he died. I promptly spiral into a nice little breakdown of my own... OK - so that's my story - back to the issue at hand... Who is to say what "rights" an adoptee or a birth parent has after the fact? I'm firmly of the opinion that the laws etc are made by people who have not been on the receiving end of a "reunion" - either good or bad. Most people have the opinion that bringing two people together is a good thing for all involved... I'm here to say that happy reunions are not always the case - but you don't hear about the reunions gone wrong in the media - don't make for the "warm fuzzies" really... can't sell papers, magazines, etc with these kinds of "tragedies" - the general public is being led to believe that all reunions have a happy ending - WRONG! I have just one thing to say to the agencies that assist/facilitate the reunion process - take a step back and consider ALL the possible outcomes of a reunion - not all of us receipients appreciate your "enthusiasm". I contacted the agency that helped my birth mother find me - I was verbally given "the finger" basically - the woman told me it was my "moral obligation" to meet this person who had given birth to me!?! She was not interested in giving me any details about my birth mother, but attempted to get MY address and phone number so that my birth mother could contact me directly - I thought that was a bit rude to say the least - so much for the Salvation Army... Right now I'm still trying to work out how to tell this woman that I don't want anything more to do with her - I hoped that not responding to the messages on my answering machine may have given her some idea - but 6 months later, she's still phoning me... but I'm basically a nice person and can't just say "piss off and get out of my life" which is actually how I feel. What do you say to the person who gave birth to you when she feels some bond that you do not? She keeps saying that she doesn't want to take the place of my mother - what makes her think she can? She keeps saying that she loves me - she doesn't even know me... Thanks for reading my rant...lol! I don't normally do this - but I felt strongly enough after reading your article that I just had to say something.... --Tracey On 15 Feb 2004 17:31:37 GMT, kjs668@aol.comeek (kj) wrote:"Marley Greiner" maddogmarley@worldnet.att.netDate: 2/13/2004 5:51 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <8ycXb.15682$hR.457001@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>"kj" <kjs668@aol.comeek> wrote in messagenews:20040213172528.28349.00001836@mb-m15.aol.com...> >(c)> >Date: 2/12/2004 5:16 PM Eastern Standard Time> >Message-id: <402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>> >> >You know,> >It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a
pervasive> >issue in American society.> >> >No, I'm NOT an adoptee.> >> >I'm NOT a birth parent.> >> >I'm NOT an adoptive parent.> >>> Blah, blah blah. You're not many things. But one thing you are isignorant and> tiresome.Don't you just want to go out and abuse "c"?Marley>Actually, I was going to say that "c" was begging to be abused, but then
Iwould have had to add a disclaimer... But to answer your question, I do
wantto abuse "c," but I'm afraid he/she wouldn't like it as much as my cat
does.kj

why are you posting a private message to this group???????? are you the
poster, if not did you get this person's permission.

(c) wrote in message news:<402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>... You know, It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive issue in American society. No, I'm NOT an adoptee. I'm NOT a birth parent. I'm NOT an adoptive parent. What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own "natural" parents.



Sorry about your luck, what are you whining to us for?


It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful, loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find "birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they were parents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers.


How do you know ALL our adoptive parents were *wonderful*? Seems like
presumtion to me. Don't you know the grass always looks greener from
the other side?

Being a parent entails so much more than giving BIRTH --

TRUE

and each and every adoptive parent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARN the right to adopt.


That's a load of crap!



Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such qualifications? Of course not!


Why should they if something is their God given right? Adoption is
different!


IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, of course, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST be preferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents.


What a warped view you have! Careful, your *unresolved* personal
issues are showing.



I tell you, when I was a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some good, caring "loving" couple would adopt me.


And while many adoptees were being abused by their adoptive parents, I
am sure they wished for rescue too! So what is your point? You cannot
diminish someone elses pain or reality by promoting your own!

Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have been MUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator.


Abused adult children need to "GET OVER IT". Trust me, things could
have been "MUCH" worse with some cruel ADOPTORS.


Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, nor rejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the responsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good, loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or would you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased in ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law.


All adoption circumstances are different, you cannot presume it to
always be an altruistic and loving manuever. You are very biased
because of your experiences.

I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how lucky you are.



More ridiculous presumtion, compounded by your own mishaps in life.
How can you blame adoptees for all those "sad" children? Have you had
any therapy?

M

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: Millie_d@usa.com (Millie_d@usa.com)Date: 2/19/04 7:26 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <3f8bd93.0402190626.7e7d1176@posting.google.com>
I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how lucky you are.More ridiculous presumtion, compounded by your own mishaps in life.How can you blame adoptees for all those "sad" children? Have you hadany therapy?M

LOL Great post, Millie. Welcome to the group.


-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

(c) wrote in message news:<402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>... You know, It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive issue in American society. No, I'm NOT an adoptee. I'm NOT a birth parent. I'm NOT an adoptive parent.

What I AM is wondering what the heck you are doing here.
What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own "natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful, loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find "birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they were parents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parent entails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptive parent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARN the right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such qualifications? Of course not! IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, of course, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST be preferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when I was a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some good, caring "loving" couple would adopt me. Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have been MUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, nor rejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the responsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good, loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or would you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased in ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law. I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how lucky you are.

And I feel that you are extremely presumptuous as well as envious and
clueless. Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and natural
parents. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Josee

(c) wrote in message news:<402bf8a4.24224109@news.highstream.net>... You know, It's amazing that this "adoptee as victim" has become such a pervasive issue in American society. No, I'm NOT an adoptee. I'm NOT a birth parent. I'm NOT an adoptive parent.

What I AM is wondering what the heck you are doing here.
What I am...is someone who was abused at the hands of their own "natural" parents. It ENRAGES me to see adoptees who had wonderful, loving adoptive parents treat them with insensitivity, and try to find "birth parents" (what a misnomer, as if giving "birth" meant they were parents) who might, or might not, be potential abusers. Being a parent entails so much more than giving BIRTH -- and each and every adoptive parent has had to go through a great deal of scrutiny in order to EARN the right to adopt. Do you think ANY "birth" parents have to have such qualifications? Of course not! IF this trend continues, there will be FEW adoptions...because, of course, "natural" parents (no matter HOW abusive and horrible) MUST be preferrable to "adoptive" loving, caring parents. I tell you, when I was a child (being abused by MY "natural" parents) I often wished some good, caring "loving" couple would adopt me. Adoptees just need to GET OVER IT. Trust me, things could have been MUCH worse with the "natural" sperm donor and incubator. Giving a child up to a GOOD home, with LOVING parents is NOT a bad thing, nor rejection; perhaps the bparent had a good reason NOT to accept the responsibility of parenting, and hoped their child would have a good, loving home. Dumping a baby in a trash can, that's being rejected. Or would you adoptees prefer you were aborted? Abortions have increased in ALL countries where adoption "open records" are required by law. I feel such compassion for the thousands of damaged, waiting, sad kids in foster care now who will NEVER have a loving adoptive family choose them - because of you selfish, uncaring, self-centered "adoptees" who have already had wonderful adoptive parents - and don't even know how lucky you are.

And I feel that you are extremely presumptuous as well as envious and
clueless. Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and natural
parents. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Josee

(c) wrote in message news:<402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>... On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote:Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -- when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.

And how the heck do you presume to know that?


Josee

"Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and natural
parents. You are barking up the wrong tree."

Don't think so. YOU adoptees could benefit from some specific
"therapy"...and your hate-filled, insensitive posts PROVE MY POINT.
'Nuff said.

(Oh, look for my novel in the future -- or maybe just wait for the TV
movie version.)

> (c)Date: 2/19/2004 4:31 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <40352a91.25876909@news.highstream.net>"Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and naturalparents. You are barking up the wrong tree."Don't think so. YOU adoptees could benefit from some specific"therapy"...and your hate-filled, insensitive posts PROVE MY POINT.'Nuff said.

Hate filled? Probably not. It's unlikely you merit that much emotion.
Insensitive? Who cares? Do you?

What's your obsession with adoptees? I don't think it'll sell that many
books--especially when you have to go one of those "pay to publish your own
crap" places.
(Oh, look for my novel in the future -- or maybe just wait for the TVmovie version.)

Ha! I can see it now... on the Lifetime channel.



kj

Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: (c)Date: 2/19/04 2:31 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <40352a91.25876909@news.highstream.net>"Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and naturalparents. You are barking up the wrong tree."Don't think so. YOU adoptees could benefit from some specific"therapy"...and your hate-filled, insensitive posts PROVE MY POINT.'Nuff said.

How do you know the poster you just responded to was an adoptee, Einstein?

'Nuff said.




-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: kjs668@aol.comeek (kj)Date: 2/19/2004
What's your obsession with adoptees?

They can't help it, everyone is obsessed with adoptees. Kathy J

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: tmnkat@aol.com (Tm n Kat)Date: 2/19/04 5:39 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040219193914.09990.00000019@mb-m17.aol.com>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: kjs668@aol.comeek (kj)Date: 2/19/2004What's your obsession with adoptees?They can't help it, everyone is obsessed with adoptees. Kathy J

Yeah, some muggle got ahold of an adoption handbook and saw that we were all
promised ponies and lexi. "C" is just jellus.


-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

(c) wrote in message news:<40352a91.25876909@news.highstream.net>... "Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and natural parents. You are barking up the wrong tree." Don't think so. YOU adoptees could benefit from some specific "therapy"...and your hate-filled, insensitive posts PROVE MY POINT. 'Nuff said.

Sorry to disappoint you but I am not an adoptee. I am a natural
parent. I just hate to see an ignoramus spewing abuse at people she
does not even know, over stuff she has no clue about. If you think
this was a hate-filled post, you obviously have not been around here
very long.

Josee
(Oh, look for my novel in the future -- or maybe just wait for the TV movie version.)

"Josee" <jose.larose2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1d64eb9c.0402191236.172edc40@posting.google.c om... (c) wrote in message news:<402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>... On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote:Top posting:Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -- when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad. And how the heck do you presume to know that? Josee

She doesn't she's just blowing stuff out her ***. In fact, if the reunions
around here are representative the majority are *good* not bad. No reason
to think the same doesn't hold true for the rest of society as well.

Kathy 1

> tmnkat@aol.com (Tm n Kat)Date: 2/19/2004 7:39 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040219193914.09990.00000019@mb-m17.aol.com>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: kjs668@aol.comeek (kj)Date: 2/19/2004What's your obsession with adoptees?They can't help it, everyone is obsessed with adoptees. Kathy J

Well, can we blame them?




kj

"kat" <katlat24@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c17vi9$1f4tvf$1@ID-203097.news.uni-berlin.de>... "Josee" <jose.larose2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:1d64eb9c.0402191236.172edc40@posting.google.c om... (c) wrote in message news:<402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>... On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote: >Top posting: > >Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -- when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad. And how the heck do you presume to know that? Josee She doesn't she's just blowing stuff out her ***. In fact, if the reunions around here are representative the majority are *good* not bad. No reason to think the same doesn't hold true for the rest of society as well. Kathy 1

That has been my observation as well. And my own reunion is certainly
very very good. "C" sounds very jealous of other people's positive
family relationships. I can understand her bitterness, though. It must
really rattle her that birth families who have been separated for
decades can reunite happily, while she herself has never had this kind
of loving connection to her own parents. By believing that reunions
are mostly unhappy, she does not have to feel so sadly different. I
feel sorry for her.

Josee

In article <20040221142307.18347.00000106@mb-m06.aol.com>, kj says... tmnkat@aol.com (Tm n Kat)Date: 2/19/2004 7:39 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040219193914.09990.00000019@mb-m17.aol.com>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: kjs668@aol.comeek (kj)Date: 2/19/2004What's your obsession with adoptees?They can't help it, everyone is obsessed with adoptees. Kathy JWell, can we blame them?

Of course not! We're so ab fab ;)

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

In article <40352a91.25876909@news.highstream.net>, c says..."Get therapy and get off the backs of adoptees and naturalparents. You are barking up the wrong tree."Don't think so. YOU adoptees could benefit from some specific"therapy"...and your hate-filled, insensitive posts PROVE MY POINT.'Nuff said.(Oh, look for my novel in the future -- or maybe just wait for the TVmovie version.)

Please, like I would waste my time on such drivel.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

On 21 Feb 2004 16:28:48 -0800, jose.larose2@sympatico.ca (Josee)
wrote:
"kat" <katlat24@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c17vi9$1f4tvf$1@ID-203097.news.uni-berlin.de>... "Josee" <jose.larose2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:1d64eb9c.0402191236.172edc40@posting.google.c om... (c) wrote in message news:<402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>... > On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) > wrote: > > >Top posting: > > > >Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week? > > No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about > exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize > that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people. > And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances > about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for > the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -- > when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad. And how the heck do you presume to know that? Josee She doesn't she's just blowing stuff out her ***. In fact, if the reunions around here are representative the majority are *good* not bad. No reason to think the same doesn't hold true for the rest of society as well. Kathy 1That has been my observation as well. And my own reunion is certainlyvery very good. "C" sounds very jealous of other people's positivefamily relationships. I can understand her bitterness, though. It mustreally rattle her that birth families who have been separated fordecades can reunite happily, while she herself has never had this kindof loving connection to her own parents. By believing that reunionsare mostly unhappy, she does not have to feel so sadly different. Ifeel sorry for her.Josee

WHAT, might I ask you adoptees, makes you think the "majority" of
reunions are happy? Media, no doubt. Surely you do not think that the
adoptees posting here (some who are obviously disturbed) represent the
"majority" of reunions, do you? And what about those bmoms, who by
their postings, show such lack of judgement --back when they got
knocked up and pregnant, then gave away the child -- or even now, when
they should just 'mind their own business' and leave the well-adjusted
adoptees alone? Did any of you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my earlier
post which included the frank words of the woman adoptee who DID NOT
want her disturbed bmom continuing to intrude into her life? Please
people, you need to do some serious RESEARCH into the statistics about
how many adoptees have "happy" reunions.

>Subject: Re: Message to ALL adopteesFrom: (c)Date: 2/25/04 2:35 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <403d1411.26973002@news.highstream.net>
WHAT, might I ask you adoptees, makes you think the "majority" ofreunions are happy? Media, no doubt. Surely you do not think that theadoptees posting here (some who are obviously disturbed) represent the"majority" of reunions, do you? And what about those bmoms, who bytheir postings, show such lack of judgement --back when they gotknocked up and pregnant, then gave away the child -- or even now, whenthey should just 'mind their own business' and leave the well-adjustedadoptees alone? Did any of you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my earlierpost which included the frank words of the woman adoptee who DID NOTwant her disturbed bmom continuing to intrude into her life? Pleasepeople, you need to do some serious RESEARCH into the statistics abouthow many adoptees have "happy" reunions.

Let's see yours.


-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

in article 403d1411.26973002@news.highstream.net, c at wrote on 25/2/04
9:35 pm:
On 21 Feb 2004 16:28:48 -0800, jose.larose2@sympatico.ca (Josee) wrote: "kat" <katlat24@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c17vi9$1f4tvf$1@ID-203097.news.uni-berlin.de>... "Josee" <jose.larose2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:1d64eb9c.0402191236.172edc40@posting.google.c om...> (c) wrote in message news:<402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>...>> On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn)>> wrote:>>>>> Top posting:>>>>>> Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?>>>> No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about>> exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize>> that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.>> And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances>> about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for>> the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -->> when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.>> And how the heck do you presume to know that?>>> Josee She doesn't she's just blowing stuff out her ***. In fact, if the reunions around here are representative the majority are *good* not bad. No reason to think the same doesn't hold true for the rest of society as well. Kathy 1 That has been my observation as well. And my own reunion is certainly very very good. "C" sounds very jealous of other people's positive family relationships. I can understand her bitterness, though. It must really rattle her that birth families who have been separated for decades can reunite happily, while she herself has never had this kind of loving connection to her own parents. By believing that reunions are mostly unhappy, she does not have to feel so sadly different. I feel sorry for her. Josee

WHAT, might I ask you adoptees, makes you think the "majority" of reunions are happy?


In my case the fact that I work in my spare time for an official agency in
the England (where records are open to all adoptees at 18 and over) and have
done so for many years. Not all reunions are "happy", but most are
satisfactory for those involved in them.

Media, no doubt. Surely you do not think that the adoptees posting here (some who are obviously disturbed) represent the "majority" of reunions, do you?


That should be 'of whom', I thought you were supposed to be a professional
writer.

You post here and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you represent the small
minority of adopted people who are disturbed, just as you most probably
represent the small minority of the general population who are disturbed.


And what about those bmoms, who by their postings, show such lack of judgement --back when they got knocked up and pregnant, then gave away the child -- or even now, when they should just 'mind their own business' and leave the well-adjusted adoptees alone?


Well adjusted (why the hyphen?) adoptees? How would you know anything about
what "well adjusted" adoptees want?

Did any of you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my earlier post


I expect most us tried to read it, but I reckon you'll need several more
years at high school, probably until you reach a senior grade, before your
use of English becomes more than trivially intelligible.

which included the frank words of the woman adoptee who DID NOT want her disturbed bmom continuing to intrude into her life? Please people, you need to do some serious RESEARCH into the statistics about how many adoptees have "happy" reunions.


The majority of research in to, search and reunion, shows that majority,
seventy percent or more, of reunions, are regarded as satisfactory by those
involved in them. You should read the research of social scientists working
in this field such as Feast and Howe at UEA.

Robin

c wrote: On 21 Feb 2004 16:28:48 -0800, jose.larose2@sympatico.ca (Josee) wrote:"kat" <katlat24@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c17vi9$1f4tvf$1@ID-203097.news.uni-berlin.de>..."Josee" <jose.larose2@sympatico.ca> wrote in messagenews:1d64eb9c.0402191236.172edc40@posting.g oogle.com...>(c) wrote in message news:<402bfd23.25376084@news.highstream.net>...>>>On 12 Feb 2004 22:18:53 GMT, lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn)>>wrote:>>>>>>>Top posting:>>>>>>Is it spring break at the nuthouse this week?>>>>No. In fact, I am a published author...and plan to write a novel about>>exactly what I have stated in my message. Please, adoptees, realize>>that you seem quite selfish and self-centered to a great many people.>>And that you are totally out-of-bounds in some of your radical stances>>about open adoptive records. I don't even blame you completely, for>>the "media" is besotted with this "happy bparent reunion" stuff -->>when in fact, the majority of bparent and adoptee reunions are bad.>>And how the heck do you presume to know that?>>>JoseeShe doesn't she's just blowing stuff out her ***. In fact, if the reunionsaround here are representative the majority are *good* not bad. No reasonto think the same doesn't hold true for the rest of society as well.Kathy 1That has been my observation as well. And my own reunion is certainlyvery very good. "C" sounds very jealous of other people's positivefamily relationships. I can understand her bitterness, though. It mustreally rattle her that birth families who have been separated fordecades can reunite happily, while she herself has never had this kindof loving connection to her own parents. By believing that reunionsare mostly unhappy, she does not have to feel so sadly different. Ifeel sorry for her.Josee WHAT, might I ask you adoptees, makes you think the "majority" of reunions are happy? Media, no doubt. Surely you do not think that the adoptees posting here (some who are obviously disturbed) represent the "majority" of reunions, do you? And what about those bmoms, who by their postings, show such lack of judgement --back when they got knocked up and pregnant, then gave away the child -- or even now, when they should just 'mind their own business' and leave the well-adjusted adoptees alone? Did any of you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my earlier post which included the frank words of the woman adoptee who DID NOT want her disturbed bmom continuing to intrude into her life? Please people, you need to do some serious RESEARCH into the statistics about how many adoptees have "happy" reunions.

It's truly a shame to see the quality of Usenet Trolls has deteriorated
to this level. Sadder still is that even ordinary Trolls seem to have
the desired effect. Please, won't someone here show us the courage
required to send this little one to greener pastures - SciFi, perhaps?

pb...

In article <403d1411.26973002@news.highstream.net>, c says...
snipWHAT, might I ask you adoptees, makes you think the "majority" ofreunions are happy?

What do you mean by "happy"?

Media, no doubt. Surely you do not think that theadoptees posting here (some who are obviously disturbed) represent the"majority" of reunions, do you? And what about those bmoms, who bytheir postings, show such lack of judgement --back when they gotknocked up and pregnant, then gave away the child -- or even now, whenthey should just 'mind their own business' and leave the well-adjustedadoptees alone? Did any of you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my earlierpost which included the frank words of the woman adoptee who DID NOTwant her disturbed bmom continuing to intrude into her life? Pleasepeople, you need to do some serious RESEARCH into the statistics abouthow many adoptees have "happy" reunions.

Show us YOUR research first. I'm beginning to doubt you've done any and just
like to spew ****.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

c wrote: And what about those bmoms, who by their postings, show such lack of judgement --back when they got knocked up and pregnant, then gave away the child -- or even now, when they should just 'mind their own business' and leave the well-adjusted adoptees alone?

Mwahahaha! Tired of alienating adoptees, are you? Is it time to move on to
birthmoms? Why not include birthdads too?

You don't sound very happy, pehaps you should write Dr. Phil for some help
with that.

(c) wrote in message news:<4033e2b0.28061602@news.highstream.net>...
Interesting insight from you "adoptees"...which I am certain will enhance the novel-in-progress. A little bitter, are we? A little sarcastic, are we? Hmmm, I never said "I" was a victim -- even though I did suffer at the hands of my "natural" parents. You people need to just "grow up." Perhaps you would like to read about the "horror" stories of adoptees too? Here's an example from a message board: http://www.justicejunction.com/measure_58_tracey.htm Measure 58 - Tracey's Story

(snip most of very interesting and scary tale)
OK - so that's my story - back to the issue at hand... Who is to say what "rights" an adoptee or a birth parent has after the fact? I'm firmly of the opinion that the laws etc are made by people who have not been on the receiving end of a "reunion" - either good or bad. Most people have the opinion that bringing two people together is a good thing for all involved...

Tracey makes a very interesting point, c, perhaps you should consider
it.

That being said--it's time for my favorate theory. The world is made
up of a certain percentage of people that we (most of us) would prefer
not to deal with. The percentage is probably pretty standard accross
every walk of life... in other words, (c), a certain percent of
parents who don't relinquish are wackos, a certain percentage of
unrelinquished people are wacko, a certain percentage of people who
adopt are wacko, a certain percentage of people who relinquish are
wacko and a certain percentage of relinquished people are wacko.


Of all the people I know who are in reunion, I would say about 10% are
pretty bad. You should do more research--with less of a bias.

Now, (c), I know what category your parents fell into. Sometimes
these things are genetic.

On: 2/26/04 11:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
"SuperEeyore" monkeylove@lanset.com wrote:

<snip>
Mwahahaha! Tired of alienating adoptees, are you? Is it time to move on tobirthmoms? Why not include birthdads too?

Are you kidding!? "birthdads" are *never* included due to disappearing.
Glad I could clear that up for you.

Gary
Prick, 1st Class
Birthafthers' Brigade

Qwasimodem wrote: On: 2/26/04 11:31 AM Eastern Standard Time "SuperEeyore" monkeylove@lanset.com wrote: <snip> Mwahahaha! Tired of alienating adoptees, are you? Is it time to move on to birthmoms? Why not include birthdads too? Are you kidding!? "birthdads" are *never* included due to disappearing. Glad I could clear that up for you. Gary Prick, 1st Class Birthafthers' Brigade

Heehee, good sweeping statement!


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