I think I really, really messed up - with my bk lawyers help.

Here's my situation. For various reasons, I got myself in 50K debt on
my CC's. I was working 2 jobs and making about 100k so this was
barely survivable. Then I lost the 2nd job due to a new person coming
in and bringing her own people with her, so now I'm making 60+k. I
had student loans, house payment, etc, and finally admitted to myself
that I was not going to ever be able to pay down the CC's. So I
reluctantly went the bk route.

I go to the first bk lawyer and he says I'm borderline chap 7 elgible,
but he thinks I should go chap 13. If I do he can get me approx.
$280/ mo. for 3 years to pay off. I get a second opinion. This
lawyer agrees, but says no harm in trying the chap 7. If it doesn't
work I can always switch to 13 - no harm done. (WRONG!!!)

I go with second lawyer and file chap 7. Trustees fine with it,
creditors fine with it. Wait 120 days or whatever, then one day
before bk is final the judge himself motions to dismiss for abuse of
bk. Oh crap!!!

Talk to lawyer - he says well we go to the hearing and try to convince
him I'm a chap 7. If he dismisses chap 7 then we go 13. Now he
mentions that will cost another $1400, but that is the extent of it.
(Before he said there would be NO downside to trying ch. 7, but
nevermind about that.)

Have the hearing to dismiss for abuse. Judge is conservative
southerner in NC that seems to have it in for me. Judge notes I pay
$1200/month in house payment and live by myself. Then he asks how
much would it cost to rent an apartment in town?! At end of hearing
lawyer asks judge if he will convert to 13 if he thinks it doesn't
meet ch 7 criteria. Judge says no, he doesn't like to make decisions
for me (bull****, since my lawyer requested it). As we left, lawyer
said hearing went well - I didn't agree.

At that point I should have trusted my instincts and withdrawn my
filing before the judge ruled, but lawyer again says no downside to
waiting for ruling.

A month goes by. Judge issues ruling that not only throws out ch. 7,
but decides with some amazing math that I can pay $1200+ a month, or
about 43 k over 3 years. How does he figure this? He says my housing
expenses are too high, since I could get an apartment for about
$900/month. My student loans don't count, even though I still have to
pay them (although only for a few more months).

So now I'm pissed at the 2nd lawyer (the one I hired) for bad advice.
I go to the first bk lawyer I saw and he says I have to go with the
judges new ruling. So instead of paying 280/mo (about 10k total) it
looks like I have to pay $1200/mo. (about 43k). If the lawyer had
told me there was any risk to trying ch. 7, I wouldn't have done it.
SO NOW I'M OUT 30K EXTRA DUE TO MY LAWYERS BAD ADVICE. AND THE ONLY
WAY I CAN PAY 1200 IS TO SELL MY HOUSE (NO EQUITY) AND RENT A CHEAPER
APARTMENT.

This is the only bk judge in my county, so I will have to go through
him again. The idiot lawyer I hired says I can refile and the judges
ch. 7 ruling isn't binding, but the first lawyer (who I should have
listened to in the first place) says NO WAY, the judge has set what I
will have to pay and nothing can be done now.

So, now it's 8 months later and I'm goint to be out 30k more than if I
had gone 13, more than broke for another 3 years, and will have to
sell my house. I guess I fuxxed myself when I decided to go for the
ch. 7, but I trusted my lawyer that there was no big downside to
trying it.

Arggghhhh....

Weiss or anybody - is there anything I can do at this point? Or am I
just fxxxed??

That's a pretty horrible story and I am curious as to what others have
to say, and surprised nobody's posted to comment on how they thought
that if they actually decided to go through with it (bk) it would at
least go down smoothly, instead of some smart *** judge deciding what
you can afford to pay and making all these decisions for you, etc.
I wonder how many readers were considering it but chickened out after
reading your post.
But nobody responded to it, neither attorneys nor lay people--what's
up with that?

jamiegoforth@webtv.net (James Goforth) wrote in message news:<25424-40FC8271-135@storefull-3276.bay.webtv.net>... That's a pretty horrible story and I am curious as to what others have to say, and surprised nobody's posted to comment on how they thought that if they actually decided to go through with it (bk) it would at least go down smoothly, instead of some smart *** judge deciding what you can afford to pay and making all these decisions for you, etc. I wonder how many readers were considering it but chickened out after reading your post. But nobody responded to it, neither attorneys nor lay people--what's up with that?

I don't know why no one responded. I probably should not have put so
much detail in my post - maybe everyone's eyes glazed over when they
saw how long it was?

I do think it does deserve attention though because it shows:

1) If you are a borderline Ch. 7 it may be worth it to try 7, but
switch to 13 if the judge questions it. Don't risk taking it to the
final stages where a judge rules. That decision cost me maybe 20k or
so and another 9 months or so of stress.

2) Trust your instincts if your good sense goes against what your
lawyer is telling you.

3) Don't live in a bk unfriendly state!

what is a bankruptcy unfriendly state, is there a list?

skydog wrote: jamiegoforth@webtv.net (James Goforth) wrote in message news:<25424-40FC8271-135@storefull-3276.bay.webtv.net>...That's a pretty horrible story and I am curious as to what others haveto say, and surprised nobody's posted to comment on how they thoughtthat if they actually decided to go through with it (bk) it would atleast go down smoothly, instead of some smart *** judge deciding whatyou can afford to pay and making all these decisions for you, etc. I wonder how many readers were considering it but chickened out afterreading your post. But nobody responded to it, neither attorneys nor lay people--what'sup with that? I don't know why no one responded. I probably should not have put so much detail in my post - maybe everyone's eyes glazed over when they saw how long it was? I do think it does deserve attention though because it shows: 1) If you are a borderline Ch. 7 it may be worth it to try 7, but switch to 13 if the judge questions it. Don't risk taking it to the final stages where a judge rules. That decision cost me maybe 20k or so and another 9 months or so of stress. 2) Trust your instincts if your good sense goes against what your lawyer is telling you. 3) Don't live in a bk unfriendly state!

Hello,

I don't have a definite answer but a thought. I'm not a lawyer nor
have I ever filed BK, but I've been reading this group occasionally,
to try to help a friend who is in financial trouble.

I don't know your situation, but I have to wonder if the judge based
his No Ch7 ruling and converted it into a Ch13 based on what you
racked up the 50k on. I.E. if you were paying off medical bills, had
a failing business, or similar, I could see him being easier on you
than if you racked up 50k in boat, car, hot tub, etc.

This a guess though.
scp1 <scp1@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<13gQc.3122$zc4.2903572@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... what is a bankruptcy unfriendly state, is there a list? skydog wrote: jamiegoforth@webtv.net (James Goforth) wrote in message news:<25424-40FC8271-135@storefull-3276.bay.webtv.net>...That's a pretty horrible story and I am curious as to what others haveto say, and surprised nobody's posted to comment on how they thoughtthat if they actually decided to go through with it (bk) it would atleast go down smoothly, instead of some smart *** judge deciding whatyou can afford to pay and making all these decisions for you, etc. I wonder how many readers were considering it but chickened out afterreading your post. But nobody responded to it, neither attorneys nor lay people--what'sup with that? I don't know why no one responded. I probably should not have put so much detail in my post - maybe everyone's eyes glazed over when they saw how long it was? I do think it does deserve attention though because it shows: 1) If you are a borderline Ch. 7 it may be worth it to try 7, but switch to 13 if the judge questions it. Don't risk taking it to the final stages where a judge rules. That decision cost me maybe 20k or so and another 9 months or so of stress. 2) Trust your instincts if your good sense goes against what your lawyer is telling you. 3) Don't live in a bk unfriendly state!

waterskier_erienospam@yahoo.com (Ted) wrote in message news:<b7f0359e.0408060747.10dd8a1c@posting.google.com>... Hello, I don't have a definite answer but a thought. I'm not a lawyer nor have I ever filed BK, but I've been reading this group occasionally, to try to help a friend who is in financial trouble. I don't know your situation, but I have to wonder if the judge based his No Ch7 ruling and converted it into a Ch13 based on what you racked up the 50k on. I.E. if you were paying off medical bills, had a failing business, or similar, I could see him being easier on you than if you racked up 50k in boat, car, hot tub, etc. This a guess though.

Well, he didn't convert it, he just dismissed the Ch.7, and wrote in
his opinion that I could pay 1200+/month on a ch. 13 plan. So I'm
basically back to square one, except with his adverse ruling waiting
for me if I refile a ch. 13.

But you are right, he did focus a lot on how I incurred the debt and
it factored into his decision. He says I was "spending in excess of
my ability to repay." Not really true until I lost my second job,
though. In court they went over my cc records and bank statements for
the last 3 years and I had to explain every expenditure that could be
taken as excessive. I didn't buy any boats or hot tubs or any big
ticket items like that. But neither was the spending on medical
expenses, failing businesses, etc. as you mention.

Well, now I have a new lawyer. He is young and bright and trying to
figure out what I should do now. I have 3 choices in his view:

1. refile as a Ch. 13, and propose a plan that is reasonable (like
$500/month which is the most I can afford w/o selling my house) and
hope that for some reason the bk judge doesn't kick it out.

2. cc companies are now calling me and offering to settle for 40 to 60
cents on the dollar. He said that they would insist on a lump sum
though which I didn't realize and haven't checked out yet. He
suggeted I could save a few hundred each month until I got enough to
pay off each cc, one at a time.

3. just don't file and don't pay since I am "judgement proof." I have
maybe 8k equity in my house which is below the exempt amount and no
other significant assets except my 401k which is also exempt. He said
the sheriff would file a lien on the house, but that as long as I
didn't refi or sell in 10 years they wouldn't be able to get anything.

He is researching the alternatives and is going to get back to me.
Anyone have any additional advice on which plan looks best? Which
would let me get my life back (credit etc) in the fewest years?

2. cc companies are now calling me and offering to settle for 40 to 60
cents on the dollar. He said that they would insist on a lump sum
though which I didn't realize and haven't checked out yet. He
suggeted I could save a few hundred each month until I got enough to
pay off each cc, one at a time.
--------------

What I wonder is, does the bankruptcy you filed already show up on
your credit report? if it does there's no point in paying them a cent.

Have you filed BK already? If you have already filed, your credit
card companies cannot call you any more to collect the debts.

Your record would show that you have "filed" BK.




in2deep@airpost.net (Joe) wrote in message news:<55d55af2.0408091702.9528e7@posting.google.com>... 2. cc companies are now calling me and offering to settle for 40 to 60 cents on the dollar. He said that they would insist on a lump sum though which I didn't realize and haven't checked out yet. He suggeted I could save a few hundred each month until I got enough to pay off each cc, one at a time. -------------- What I wonder is, does the bankruptcy you filed already show up on your credit report? if it does there's no point in paying them a cent.