To Everyone,

I use this group to get as much info. about the
BK process because I am unable to pay an attorney for advice. Most of
your replys have been very helpful and I thank all of you but why do
some of the people here reply " consult your attorney" for advice? I
just want to find out how many other people in this group are unable
to afford an attorney as well. Please reply to this post so other
group members will be made aware that in many cases "consult your
attorney" is NOT an option for many of us.

Sincerely Dan

Dan:

Part of the problem is that there is only so much that a non-attorney can
do, both in terms of knowledge and experience.

For a federal system, bankruptcy is incredibly state and locality-specific
in terms of practical requirements for doing things. Whether people keep tax
refunds, their homes, what documents will be required, how property is sold
during a bankruptcy, etc. all depend entirely on which state your case is in
and which trustee and judge it has been assigned to.

A local bankruptcy attorney should be aware of these locality-specific
requirements (and yes, they are indeed requirements). There is no way you,
as a non-lawyer, can know or learn in a short time what they are. And there
is no way I, as an attorney practicing in Maryland and DC, can know what
your trustee in Los Angeles, California will require.

So when I say, "Speak with your lawyer," I'm telling you to speak with the
one person who is both familiar with the details of your case and local
practice.

Your biggest problem as a pro se debtor is that you don't know what you
don't know. I've taken over a number of cases where a debtor prepared and
filed the various bankruptcy documents without the help of an attorney.
Apart from the fact that the schedules generally have to be completely
redone (the exemptions are usually wrong, debts are not listed, assets are
not listed or are listed or valued incorrectly, the Statement of Financial
Affairs is incorrect, and the budget is generally wrong), a number of these
people lost their homes as a result of not being advised about what was
required, how the process worked, how to value assets, how to deal with
various types of debts, etc.--something an attorney is required to do.

Others ran into severe problems at the Meeting of Creditors, where they have
no one to turn to for preparation or advice, Generally, pro se debtors don't
know what the Trustee is looking for, or how to properly deal with the
Trustee's questions and concerns. One ended up being charged with bankruptcy
fraud--all because she didn't understand the effects of what the information
put in their schedules meant.

Bankruptcy is a very tricky area of the law (even to attorneys who don't
regularly practice it).

Do yourself a big favor--see a lawyer.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@brettweiss.com *
* www.brettweiss.com *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't
meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as such. If you want
legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state's laws who
can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

"Dan" <rrabbit1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fnh530h8icgh6lrhb8m6kuipk82opvjvvf@4ax.com... To Everyone, I use this group to get as much info. about the BK process because I am unable to pay an attorney for advice. Most of your replys have been very helpful and I thank all of you but why do some of the people here reply " consult your attorney" for advice? I just want to find out how many other people in this group are unable to afford an attorney as well. Please reply to this post so other group members will be made aware that in many cases "consult your attorney" is NOT an option for many of us. Sincerely Dan

I can't afford an attorney. I'm going it alone.


Dan <rrabbit1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<fnh530h8icgh6lrhb8m6kuipk82opvjvvf@4ax.com>... To Everyone, I use this group to get as much info. about the BK process because I am unable to pay an attorney for advice. Most of your replys have been very helpful and I thank all of you but why do some of the people here reply " consult your attorney" for advice? I just want to find out how many other people in this group are unable to afford an attorney as well. Please reply to this post so other group members will be made aware that in many cases "consult your attorney" is NOT an option for many of us. Sincerely Dan

Just curious, im doing some research, but what if you could make payments?
would that affect your decision?

Corey


"lakinapook" <lcl_72@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40ede9dc.0402232039.4e2b5bb9@posting.google.c om... I can't afford an attorney. I'm going it alone. Dan <rrabbit1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<fnh530h8icgh6lrhb8m6kuipk82opvjvvf@4ax.com>... To Everyone, I use this group to get as much info. about the BK process because I am unable to pay an attorney for advice. Most of your replys have been very helpful and I thank all of you but why do some of the people here reply " consult your attorney" for advice? I just want to find out how many other people in this group are unable to afford an attorney as well. Please reply to this post so other group members will be made aware that in many cases "consult your attorney" is NOT an option for many of us. Sincerely Dan

I spoke with an attorney who would accept payments, but wouldn't
actually go forward with the filing until all the payments were made.
The guy wanted 1000.00 plus ofcourse the filing fee. I have been
unemployed for quite some time now, and it would have probably taken
me a year just to pay him AND the filing fee. As it is, I am making
payments on the filing fee of 50 dollars a month. After I researched
bankruptcy filing in general, I didn't think my case was complicated
enough to merit paying someone a thousand dollars. And every other
attorney I spoke with wanted the same amount give or take a hundred.
The fees were prohibitive for someone who is truly in dire straits.






"Corey" <frsmarketing@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PbB_b.111589$jk2.499898@attbi_s53>... Just curious, im doing some research, but what if you could make payments? would that affect your decision? Corey

lcl_72@hotmail.com (lakinapook) wrote in message news:<40ede9dc.0402242045.4ee87f69@posting.google.com>... I spoke with an attorney who would accept payments, but wouldn't actually go forward with the filing until all the payments were made. The guy wanted 1000.00 plus ofcourse the filing fee. I have been unemployed for quite some time now, and it would have probably taken me a year just to pay him AND the filing fee. As it is, I am making payments on the filing fee of 50 dollars a month. After I researched bankruptcy filing in general, I didn't think my case was complicated enough to merit paying someone a thousand dollars. And every other attorney I spoke with wanted the same amount give or take a hundred. The fees were prohibitive for someone who is truly in dire straits. "Corey" <frsmarketing@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PbB_b.111589$jk2.499898@attbi_s53>... Just curious, im doing some research, but what if you could make payments? would that affect your decision? Corey

You can almost always "consult" with an attorney for free, to pass up
on that would be pretty foolish. Retaining them is another matter.
(IMO) At the very least a person considering filing should consult
with several attorneys, explain their situation, and they will
probably get at least some very useful-and free-advice. I have
probably talked to 7-8 different attorneys on the phone and I've
learned quite a bit. Enough that I will probably retain one with the
best mix of good advice and good rates. Make a list of your questions
and ask at least several the same questions. If they act too annoyed
or self-important after less than 4-5 minutes (and some will) hang up
on them, cross them off the list, and go to the next one. Some will
talk your ear off. Many attorneys charge 1000-1200 (includes filing)
in my area, but I think I've found a pretty good one for 800 by
shopping around. Thats only 600 more than it would cost to do it
myself, and while 600 seems like a lot of money to a bankrupt person
I'd rather not find out that I should have hired one when its too
late! When I think of the things that could potentially go wrong (most
of which I probably dont even know), 600 seems like a small price to
pay for some peace of mind. What good is filing bankruptcy if you find
yourself still ****ed afterwards?

Dan, check around, our attorney's fees were figured into the
bankruptcy, he was paid thru our weekly payments. We paid nothing up
front.

He is talking about a Ch 7, in which there is no payment plan to incorporate
attys fees.

Corey

"Debra" <cappsd@att.net> wrote in message
news:b1dd373f.0402270943.66f2f806@posting.google.c om... Dan, check around, our attorney's fees were figured into the bankruptcy, he was paid thru our weekly payments. We paid nothing up front.

The real question you should be asking is why am I filing a Bankruptcy?
If you came to my office, I would first tell you that there is no
need to file when you have nothing to lose. If you are unemployed no
one's going to garnish you until you have wages to garnish!

Why not wait until you have something to lose!

lakinapook wrote: I spoke with an attorney who would accept payments, but wouldn't actually go forward with the filing until all the payments were made. The guy wanted 1000.00 plus ofcourse the filing fee. I have been unemployed for quite some time now, and it would have probably taken me a year just to pay him AND the filing fee. As it is, I am making payments on the filing fee of 50 dollars a month. After I researched bankruptcy filing in general, I didn't think my case was complicated enough to merit paying someone a thousand dollars. And every other attorney I spoke with wanted the same amount give or take a hundred. The fees were prohibitive for someone who is truly in dire straits. "Corey" <frsmarketing@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PbB_b.111589$jk2.499898@attbi_s53>...Just curious, im doing some research, but what if you could make payments?would that affect your decision?Corey

In my case, I filed because I was laid off. Although I have nothing
to lose and no wage to be garnished at that time, I needed to file
because I believed that my job situation was temporary. Once I found
a job, the creditors would be going after me with outrageous penalties
and fees. I do not want to wait until I got a job offer to complicate
the situation.




Bill <bbalena@mac.com> wrote in message news:<f_GdnaxLK61W7t_d4p2dnA@adelphia.com>... The real question you should be asking is why am I filing a Bankruptcy? If you came to my office, I would first tell you that there is no need to file when you have nothing to lose. If you are unemployed no one's going to garnish you until you have wages to garnish! Why not wait until you have something to lose! lakinapook wrote: I spoke with an attorney who would accept payments, but wouldn't actually go forward with the filing until all the payments were made. The guy wanted 1000.00 plus ofcourse the filing fee. I have been unemployed for quite some time now, and it would have probably taken me a year just to pay him AND the filing fee. As it is, I am making payments on the filing fee of 50 dollars a month. After I researched bankruptcy filing in general, I didn't think my case was complicated enough to merit paying someone a thousand dollars. And every other attorney I spoke with wanted the same amount give or take a hundred. The fees were prohibitive for someone who is truly in dire straits. "Corey" <frsmarketing@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PbB_b.111589$jk2.499898@attbi_s53>...Just curious, im doing some research, but what if you could make payments?would that affect your decision?Corey

My reasons exactly. Although the lay off has stretched on longer than
I ever thought possible. And I am not getting phone calls day and
night, which is a relief.

In my case, I filed because I was laid off. Although I have nothing to lose and no wage to be garnished at that time, I needed to file because I believed that my job situation was temporary. Once I found a job, the creditors would be going after me with outrageous penalties and fees. I do not want to wait until I got a job offer to complicate the situation. Bill <bbalena@mac.com> wrote in message news:<f_GdnaxLK61W7t_d4p2dnA@adelphia.com>... The real question you should be asking is why am I filing a Bankruptcy? If you came to my office, I would first tell you that there is no need to file when you have nothing to lose. If you are unemployed no one's going to garnish you until you have wages to garnish! Why not wait until you have something to lose! lakinapook wrote: I spoke with an attorney who would accept payments, but wouldn't actually go forward with the filing until all the payments were made. The guy wanted 1000.00 plus ofcourse the filing fee. I have been unemployed for quite some time now, and it would have probably taken me a year just to pay him AND the filing fee. As it is, I am making payments on the filing fee of 50 dollars a month. After I researched bankruptcy filing in general, I didn't think my case was complicated enough to merit paying someone a thousand dollars. And every other attorney I spoke with wanted the same amount give or take a hundred. The fees were prohibitive for someone who is truly in dire straits. "Corey" <frsmarketing@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<PbB_b.111589$jk2.499898@attbi_s53>...>Just curious, im doing some research, but what if you could make payments?>would that affect your decision?>>Corey>>

I know i can't. I am a single mom raising 3 kids on $13 an hour and child support gets paid when it gets paid. I had some major setbacks this last year and was barily able to get by. FYI for 2 weeks we had to take cold showers because i couldn't pay my gas bill.

Needless to say, after the setbacks and no extra money I finally had to file for bankruptcy to hold onto my house and hopefully car. A local lawyer was going to do it for $700 plus court cost of $300. So I begged and borrowed only to get theree and be told he couldn't represent me becasue he was the best buddy with a guy that worked for one of my creditors. The next closest was $1200 which I could not come up with the difference. Best part and I am still trying to figure this out, I also do not qualify for free legal aid because I make to much. Yeah right!

Dan:

Part of the problem is that there is only so much that a non-attorney can
do, both in terms of knowledge and experience.

For a federal system, bankruptcy is incredibly state and locality-specific
in terms of practical requirements for doing things. Whether people keep tax
refunds, their homes, what documents will be required, how property is sold
during a bankruptcy, etc. all depend entirely on which state your case is in
and which trustee and judge it has been assigned to.

A local bankruptcy attorney should be aware of these locality-specific
requirements (and yes, they are indeed requirements). There is no way you,
as a non-lawyer, can know or learn in a short time what they are. And there
is no way I, as an attorney practicing in Maryland and DC, can know what
your trustee in Los Angeles, California will require.

So when I say, "Speak with your lawyer," I'm telling you to speak with the
one person who is both familiar with the details of your case and local
practice.

Your biggest problem as a pro se debtor is that you don't know what you
don't know. I've taken over a number of cases where a debtor prepared and
filed the various bankruptcy documents without the help of an attorney.
Apart from the fact that the schedules generally have to be completely
redone (the exemptions are usually wrong, debts are not listed, assets are
not listed or are listed or valued incorrectly, the Statement of Financial
Affairs is incorrect, and the budget is generally wrong), a number of these
people lost their homes as a result of not being advised about what was
required, how the process worked, how to value assets, how to deal with
various types of debts, etc.--something an attorney is required to do.

Others ran into severe problems at the Meeting of Creditors, where they have
no one to turn to for preparation or advice, Generally, pro se debtors don't
know what the Trustee is looking for, or how to properly deal with the
Trustee's questions and concerns. One ended up being charged with bankruptcy
fraud--all because she didn't understand the effects of what the information
put in their schedules meant.

Bankruptcy is a very tricky area of the law (even to attorneys who don't
regularly practice it).

Do yourself a big favor--see a lawyer.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@brettweiss.com *
* www.brettweiss.com *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't
meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as such. If you want
legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state's laws who
can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

"Dan" <rrabbit1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fnh530h8icgh6lrhb8m6kuipk82opvjvvf@4ax.com...

I can't afford an attorney either. Our company is owed money, we'd have to hire an attorney to pursue those who owe us (with a very low probability of actually collecting) yet in order to be able to pay the attorney I'd actually have to have some money....which I don't have because we're owed money..lol...and round and round it goes...