My question specifically involves First USA/Bank One. I know they
quite often list their accouts as charge offs after a bankruptcy. Is
it their position that these accounts were already in that status when
the bankruptcy was filed/upon notification/or discharged? Or is there
another reason? After reading about other people's experiences, I'm
not exactly certain what the actual law is- of course assuming that
the law is being correctly applied in the first place. Is there any
short term financial advantage for them to do this? As you might
guess I'm in this situation-very early right now. I have had the
credit reporting agencies correct their records but I know this
doesn't mean much- I have also written to Bank One directly with my
side side of the story.

If the account was charged off *before* the bankruptcy was filed, it can be
reported as charged off after discharge. Otherwise, it must be reported as
"included in bankruptcy."

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@brettweiss.com *
* www.brettweiss.com *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't
meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as such. If you want
legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state's laws who
can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

"KBM" <kbm2055@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:587129e7.0402091850.7274d04e@posting.google.c om... My question specifically involves First USA/Bank One. I know they quite often list their accouts as charge offs after a bankruptcy. Is it their position that these accounts were already in that status when the bankruptcy was filed/upon notification/or discharged? Or is there another reason? After reading about other people's experiences, I'm not exactly certain what the actual law is- of course assuming that the law is being correctly applied in the first place. Is there any short term financial advantage for them to do this? As you might guess I'm in this situation-very early right now. I have had the credit reporting agencies correct their records but I know this doesn't mean much- I have also written to Bank One directly with my side side of the story.

Brett,

That sure isn't FUSA's opinion. However, I believe they will eventually be
forced to change that opinion. Why they are being such a PITA about it eludes
me. Other creditors screw with you but none are as adamant as FUSA about being
a PITA.

Their position on reporting a BK as a CO and listing a balance and even a past
due amount is as follows:

"At the time the bankruptcy was filed, you still had an outstanding balance on
the account. When we received your notice of bankruptcy, we took the balance on
the account as a loss."

There are currenty 2 cases against FUSA's blatant disregard for accurate
reporting that I know of:
Chase v. FUSA case in Arizona scheduled for 7/04 and
Foster v. FUSA case in Pennsylvania scheduled for ???

May the righteous win!

moe




"Brett Weiss" <lawyer@erols.com> wrote:If the account was charged off *before* the bankruptcy was filed, it can bereported as charged off after discharge. Otherwise, it must be reported as"included in bankruptcy."--Brett********************************************* ********************* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy ** ** BRETT WEISS, P.C. ** Attorneys at Law ** Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars ** lawyer@brettweiss.com ** www.brettweiss.com ** ** Small Business Estates & Estate Planning ************************************************** ****************The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn'tmeant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as such. If you wantlegal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state's laws whocan review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.**************************************** *************************"KBM" <kbm2055@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:587129e7.0402091850.7274d04e@posting.g oogle.com... My question specifically involves First USA/Bank One. I know they quite often list their accouts as charge offs after a bankruptcy. Is it their position that these accounts were already in that status when the bankruptcy was filed/upon notification/or discharged? Or is there another reason? After reading about other people's experiences, I'm not exactly certain what the actual law is- of course assuming that the law is being correctly applied in the first place. Is there any short term financial advantage for them to do this? As you might guess I'm in this situation-very early right now. I have had the credit reporting agencies correct their records but I know this doesn't mean much- I have also written to Bank One directly with my side side of the story.

moe wrote:
Brett, That sure isn't FUSA's opinion. However, I believe they will eventually be forced to change that opinion. Why they are being such a PITA about it eludes me. Other creditors screw with you but none are as adamant as FUSA about being a PITA. Their position on reporting a BK as a CO and listing a balance and even a past due amount is as follows: "At the time the bankruptcy was filed, you still had an outstanding balance on the account. When we received your notice of bankruptcy, we took the balance on the account as a loss." There are currenty 2 cases against FUSA's blatant disregard for accurate reporting that I know of: Chase v. FUSA case in Arizona scheduled for 7/04 and Foster v. FUSA case in Pennsylvania scheduled for ??? May the righteous win! moe

I was going to mention the Eleanor Chase v. FUSA case, but I did not
know there is a second case pending. Hopefully, they will lose both. I
do know that TransUnion settled out of court with Eleanor Chase to the
tune of complete deletion of the account, and, I think, $2500 for her
troubles.

I am in the same boat with FUSA. They currently report my 2 accounts as
"charge offs" when they should be "included in bankruptcy." The charge
off notation is more detrimental to the credit scoring alogrythm, than
is IIB. Mine even shows a "paid charge off, zero balance" but it still
is classified as a delinquent account, whereas my IIB accounts do not
count as delinquent.

I would never send the CRAs my discharge papers showing that FUSA was
included, because then you have self-verified your bankruptcy to the
CRAs, and it will be nearly impossible to remove it before the 10 year
mark.

If anyone has direct links to the 2 cases againt FUSA, please post. Thanks.

none <none@here.com> wrote in message news:<DefWb.102323$fH2.60537@twister.tampabay.rr.com>... moe wrote: Brett, That sure isn't FUSA's opinion. However, I believe they will eventually be forced to change that opinion. Why they are being such a PITA about it eludes me. Other creditors screw with you but none are as adamant as FUSA about being a PITA. Their position on reporting a BK as a CO and listing a balance and even a past due amount is as follows: "At the time the bankruptcy was filed, you still had an outstanding balance on the account. When we received your notice of bankruptcy, we took the balance on the account as a loss." There are currenty 2 cases against FUSA's blatant disregard for accurate reporting that I know of: Chase v. FUSA case in Arizona scheduled for 7/04 and Foster v. FUSA case in Pennsylvania scheduled for ??? May the righteous win! moe I was going to mention the Eleanor Chase v. FUSA case, but I did not know there is a second case pending. Hopefully, they will lose both. I do know that TransUnion settled out of court with Eleanor Chase to the tune of complete deletion of the account, and, I think, $2500 for her troubles. I am in the same boat with FUSA. They currently report my 2 accounts as "charge offs" when they should be "included in bankruptcy." The charge off notation is more detrimental to the credit scoring alogrythm, than is IIB. Mine even shows a "paid charge off, zero balance" but it still is classified as a delinquent account, whereas my IIB accounts do not count as delinquent. I would never send the CRAs my discharge papers showing that FUSA was included, because then you have self-verified your bankruptcy to the CRAs, and it will be nearly impossible to remove it before the 10 year mark. If anyone has direct links to the 2 cases againt FUSA, please post. Thanks.


Could someone please explain all of this so this dummy can understand?
I have a FUSA account that will be involved if I file. What does this
mean to me? Should I make sure to file before the account goes to
"charge off"? (sounds like it may not matter). Its still in good
status now but wont be for long

> Could someone please explain all of this so this dummy can understand? I have a FUSA account that will be involved if I file. What does this mean to me? Should I make sure to file before the account goes to "charge off"? (sounds like it may not matter). Its still in good status now but wont be for long

If you're going to file anyway, all things being equal, you should file
before your account is charged off. It will make it easier to rebuild your
credit post-bankruptcy.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@brettweiss.com *
* www.brettweiss.com *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't
meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as such. If you want
legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state's laws who
can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

As it stands with FUSA's reporting right now, it doesn't make a difference.
They will report it as a charge-off regardless whether it's charged off before
bankruptcy or not. HOWEVER, I would not let it get to charge off status before
I went bankrupt if I had the choice.

Keep in mind that you need to be somewhat late on the account before they will
charge it off so you can stop paying on it a month or 2 or perhaps even 3
before you file. However, even with reputable companies and those like FUSA,
they will report the 30, 60 or 90 days late with the Included in Bankruptcy.
Whether that makes much difference in your credit score or not only Fair Isaac
can say. Fair Isaac will not tell anyone how they come up with the score for at
least 2 reasons:
1. They fear that you may be able to improve your score.
2. But probably more importantly, they don't want anyone to how how much
hocus pocus they put in their model.

Anybody that follows credit scores vs. credit reports closely knows that Fair
Isaac is anything but fair and is not truely consistent. Some even refer to it
as a random number generator. If their algorithm got out, there would be many
lawsuits againt them.

My gut feeling is that having a late on a bakrupt account probably doesn't make
your score a whole lot worse than a bankruptcy with no lates. It may make a
difference to a creditor that actually looks at your credit report, many credit
decision are based soley on the score, but I suspect it would also mean little.
In my opinion I would try to stay less than 60 days late on anything before the
day that I filed if it wasn't going to cause me any undue stress.

Good Luck.

moe



in2deep@airpost.net (Joe) wrote:none <none@here.com> wrote in messagenews:<DefWb.102323$fH2.60537@twister.tampabay.rr.com>... moe wrote: Brett, That sure isn't FUSA's opinion. However, I believe they will eventually be forced to change that opinion. Why they are being such a PITA about iteludes me. Other creditors screw with you but none are as adamant as FUSA aboutbeing a PITA. Their position on reporting a BK as a CO and listing a balance and even apast due amount is as follows: "At the time the bankruptcy was filed, you still had an outstandingbalance on the account. When we received your notice of bankruptcy, we took thebalance on the account as a loss." There are currenty 2 cases against FUSA's blatant disregard for accurate reporting that I know of: Chase v. FUSA case in Arizona scheduled for 7/04 and Foster v. FUSA case in Pennsylvania scheduled for ??? May the righteous win! moe I was going to mention the Eleanor Chase v. FUSA case, but I did not know there is a second case pending. Hopefully, they will lose both. I do know that TransUnion settled out of court with Eleanor Chase to the tune of complete deletion of the account, and, I think, $2500 for her troubles. I am in the same boat with FUSA. They currently report my 2 accounts as "charge offs" when they should be "included in bankruptcy." The charge off notation is more detrimental to the credit scoring alogrythm, than is IIB. Mine even shows a "paid charge off, zero balance" but it still is classified as a delinquent account, whereas my IIB accounts do not count as delinquent. I would never send the CRAs my discharge papers showing that FUSA was included, because then you have self-verified your bankruptcy to the CRAs, and it will be nearly impossible to remove it before the 10 year mark. If anyone has direct links to the 2 cases againt FUSA, please post. Thanks.Could someone please explain all of this so this dummy can understand?I have a FUSA account that will be involved if I file. What does thismean to me? Should I make sure to file before the account goes to"charge off"? (sounds like it may not matter). Its still in goodstatus now but wont be for long

On a related note, does it do any good to one's future credit to close
a credit line voluntarily before filing (even though the balance is
still there), rather than have them do it TO you?

If you close it, make sure you tell them to list it as "closed by consumer"
otherwise, it shows up as "Closed by Creditor"




"Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message
news:55d55af2.0402131141.5249e8b6@posting.google.c om... On a related note, does it do any good to one's future credit to close a credit line voluntarily before filing (even though the balance is still there), rather than have them do it TO you?

moe <moe@hoee.com> wrote in
news:402c5d29$0$205$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com:
As it stands with FUSA's reporting right now, it doesn't make a difference. They will report it as a charge-off regardless whether it's charged off before bankruptcy or not.

If it is reported as a charge-off, isn't the implication that the debt is
not discharged (even if it really is), thus lowering your credit score and
potentially scaring lenders when seeing this notation? If this is true,
even disputing the notation with an explanation wouldn't help you in the
first case, and possibly not even for the second.

If this is not correct, could someone set me straight?

"Apophis" <phenix850@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<TamdnUlfofkZpbDdRVn-sA@adelphia.com>... If you close it, make sure you tell them to list it as "closed by consumer" otherwise, it shows up as "Closed by Creditor"


I understand that part, but does it do any good (to future credit) to
self-close it if you are going to file BK?

Your creditor is unlikely to have the account "Closed by you", unless
the balance is zero. It is unlikely that you can "close" your account
if there is a balance in it.




"Apophis" <phenix850@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<TamdnUlfofkZpbDdRVn-sA@adelphia.com>... If you close it, make sure you tell them to list it as "closed by consumer" otherwise, it shows up as "Closed by Creditor" "Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message news:55d55af2.0402131141.5249e8b6@posting.google.c om... On a related note, does it do any good to one's future credit to close a credit line voluntarily before filing (even though the balance is still there), rather than have them do it TO you?

klm_kim@yahoo.com (K Kim) wrote in message news:<f66f76cf.0402140442.615ec7b2@posting.google.com>... Your creditor is unlikely to have the account "Closed by you", unless the balance is zero. It is unlikely that you can "close" your account if there is a balance in it.

I temporarily closed an account with a balance on it within the past
few months. It doesnt absolve you of the debt, obviously, but they did
close it when I asked and shortly thereafter re-opened it at my
request. I have not checked to see how the closing was reported,
though I did request it to show it was closed by me.