If i have no assets, do those "do it yourself" bankruptcy kits for
chapter 7 work OK? If not what mistakes are/can commonly be made when
using them. what are their flaws? If they work, any suggestions on
which ones are the best? thanks in advance.

Having been there, I have one piece of advice, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS WITHOUT
THE ADVICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL!
"dan" <danrocksonch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8056e718.0311131614.68422f71@posting.google.c om... If i have no assets, do those "do it yourself" bankruptcy kits for chapter 7 work OK? If not what mistakes are/can commonly be made when using them. what are their flaws? If they work, any suggestions on which ones are the best? thanks in advance.

The only mistake would be using them.


"dan" <danrocksonch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8056e718.0311131614.68422f71@posting.google.c om... If i have no assets, do those "do it yourself" bankruptcy kits for chapter 7 work OK? If not what mistakes are/can commonly be made when using them. what are their flaws? If they work, any suggestions on which ones are the best? thanks in advance.

Dan:

I've taken over a number of cases where a debtor prepared and
filed the various bankruptcy documents without the help of an
attorney. Apart from the fact that the schedules generally have
to be completely redone (the exemptions are usually wrong, debts
are not listed, assets are not listed or are listed or valued
incorrectly, the Statement of Financial Affairs is incorrect, and
the budget is generally wrong), a number of these people lost
their homes as a result of not being advised about what was
required, how the process worked, how to value assets, how to
deal with various types of debts, etc.--something an attorney is
required to do.

Others ran into severe problems at the Meeting of Creditors,
where they have no one to turn to for preparation or advice,
Generally, pro se debtors don't know what the Trustee is looking
for, or how to properly deal with the Trustee's questions and
concerns. One ended up being charged with bankruptcy fraud--all
because she didn't understand the effects of what the information
put in their schedules meant.

Bankruptcy is a very tricky area of the law (even to attorneys
who don't regularly practice it). Interestingly enough for a
federal system, it is very state and locality specific. What will
work in California, for example, probably won't fly here in
Maryland.

Do yourself a big favor--see a lawyer.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@erols.com *
* http://www.erols.com/lawyer *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the
facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

"dan" <danrocksonch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8056e718.0311131614.68422f71@posting.google.c om... If i have no assets, do those "do it yourself" bankruptcy kits
for chapter 7 work OK? If not what mistakes are/can commonly be
made when using them. what are their flaws? If they work, any
suggestions on which ones are the best? thanks in advance.

I've been through it myself and I can tell you that the cost is well worth the
money. An inexperienced layman can easily make 1 mistake that would cost more
than the price of a good BK attorney. Not only does a layman not have the
advantage of legal expertiece, he or she does not have experience with the BK
court that you are filing in.

Some things you can do just as well as anyone else, like cutting your grass.
Other things require education about what you are doing and experience doing
it. Filing BK falls into the second category.

Good luck to you.




danrocksonch@hotmail.com (dan) wrote:If i have no assets, do those "do it yourself" bankruptcy kits forchapter 7 work OK? If not what mistakes are/can commonly be made whenusing them. what are their flaws? If they work, any suggestions onwhich ones are the best? thanks in advance.



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dan wrote in message <8056e718.0311131614.68422f71@posting.google.com>...If i have no assets, do those "do it yourself" bankruptcy kits forchapter 7 work OK? If not what mistakes are/can commonly be made whenusing them. what are their flaws? If they work, any suggestions onwhich ones are the best? thanks in advance.

Like so many things in life, when an experienced person does something, they
make it look effortless. People attend 341's, spend 3 minutes in front of
a trustee and wonder why they paid a bunch of money to an attorney to draft
some papers and spend 3 minutes at a hearing. They proceed to tell
friends don't bother with an attorney, get the forms and save money..

Unfortunately, as Brett and others have said, it is usually a mistake. It
all appears effortless because the attorney knows what is needed to be done,
has dealt with the trustee before, and often and is well prepared before
even starting.

We have specialty software designed to assist us. It is tightly integrated
with the court systems and updated frequently. We know the trustees well
and know their quirks and demands. Many of them are not part of the local
rules, just personal rules they have that we have learned to live with. Our
trustees demand vehicle titles, the full recorded mortgage and warranty deed
if applicable for all mortgages and properties....and that is the chapter 7
trustees....the chapter 13 trustee does not require them.

All this means an effortless process for our clients (but certainly not
effortless for us). We are engaged in our fourth asset case this year, we
will close our first one in this district in January (3 years after it was
filed). You pay attorneys not for the things that go right, but for the
experience to handle things when they go wrong....and hopefully, most
frequently, the good ones catch the things that can go wrong well before
they are a problem.

Tracy
Office Manager
http://www.cazelaw.com

I disagree with many of the postings here. I filed no-asset Chapter 7
pro se in Southern California 11 months ago. I had been a bit
hesitant about not having an attorney, especially since I'd heard that
Southern California bankruptcy courts are fairly strict. However,
since I didn't have the money to hire an attorney, I did it myself.

I used Nolo's book on filing chapter 7 (I forget the exact name). The
whole process was very straightfoward, although it was also very time
consuming and detailed.

I think that if you feel comfortable filing your own income taxes
(even if it's not fun), you can file your own no-asset chapter 7.
Just be sure to double- and triple-check your work.

Of course, the other downside for me was that I didn't have anyone
available to answer my questions. I could figure out the whats,
wheres and whens, but I didn't know what the process would be like. I
didn't know ahead of time that the creditor's meeting was so short and
such a piece of cake - definitely the easiest part of filing (for me).

I guess my point is that I found filing is detailed and complex, but
not difficult. Once I completed all my paperwork, my filing went
through quickly and easily, and I got my discharge about two months
after filing.

It's my first time in this group. Hi everyone!!

Question for all:
No job, or prospects, at present.
Huge amount of back taxes. Fed & Calif. state. and student loan. All
with tons of interest, penalties and threats to place liens, add more
fines, etc. This is the bulk of it.

Can this be discharged with cpt. 7???

All responses will be greatly appreciated.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:16:37 -0800 (PST), kahunapapa@webtv.net (Pete
Winslow) wrote:
It's my first time in this group. Hi everyone!!Question for all:No job, or prospects, at present.Huge amount of back taxes. Fed & Calif. state. and student loan. Allwith tons of interest, penalties and threats to place liens, add morefines, etc. This is the bulk of it.Can this be discharged with cpt. 7???All responses will be greatly appreciated.

As a rule most taxes cannot be discharged.


-- Never assume malice when simple stupidity explains everything.

chiefboats@cox.net wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:16:37 -0800 (PST), kahunapapa@webtv.net (Pete Winslow) wrote:It's my first time in this group. Hi everyone!!Question for all:No job, or prospects, at present.Huge amount of back taxes. Fed & Calif. state. and student loan. Allwith tons of interest, penalties and threats to place liens, add morefines, etc. This is the bulk of it.Can this be discharged with cpt. 7???All responses will be greatly appreciated. As a rule most taxes cannot be discharged.

Actually, once income taxes are are older that three years they are
dischargeable, so long as returns were timely filed (or filed more that
two years prior to filing bankruptcy) and were not assessed within the 240
days prior to filing bankruptcy.

Trust fund contributions and tax liens create other problems, talk to your
attorney before taking the next step.

I agree with Mr. Berry. I did my own Chapter 7, also. I did not go
into it lightly, but I had no real property, cars or any other
non-exempt property to protect. The paperwork was the hardest part,
but no harder than your standard 1040 form. The way I looked at it, I
didn't have the money for an attorney, but I did have the time to
invest in doing my own research and making sure I got everything
filled out correctly (my time was free).

I filed in August, and my 341 was in mid-September. I arrived early
the day of my meeting to sniff out the trustee and see what kind of
questions he was asking. I wasn't really nervous, just anxious to get
it over with. The trustee was a nice fellow, though *very* thorough
with some who had mile-long schedules and multiple cars and houses and
such. My scrawny-*** estate was probably like breaktime to him.
After about three minutes of standard questions (establishing my
identity, understanding what a C7 can do to my credit, my affirmation
that I indeed filed this myself), he complimented me on how thorough
and detailed my petition and schedules were, and said that usually
do-it-yourselfers don't have it together as well as I did. He thanked
me, wished me luck, and that was it.

I was the only one in the room that was self-represented. When that
came out in the questioning, the other debtors' attention immediately
went from their attorneys to me. I am sure some of them thought,
"What the hell am I paying THIS guy for?" Well, if I'd had some
property to protect, I'd have hired an attorney too, and I wouldn't
recommend a do-it-yourself kit in a case like that.

Anyhow, my discharge became official today, 20 November 2002. I am
now certified debt-free and will never darken that ominous,
overextended, all-too-easy-to-fall-through door again.
Fuggeddaboudit.

I want to thank all of the posters here at alt.bankruptcy past and
present for giving me some peace of mind and also for letting me know
that I certainly wasn't alone out here during my stay in Debtville. A
special tip of the hat to Mr. Weiss and Mr. Stumpf for answering
questions on their time when they certainly don't have to. They
provide a service to us that does not go unnoticed.

Peace y'all. And good luck.



kberry@avatarsun.com (Ken Berry) wrote in message news:<71106171.0311191105.54f66c6a@posting.google.com>... I disagree with many of the postings here. I filed no-asset Chapter 7 pro se in Southern California 11 months ago. I had been a bit hesitant about not having an attorney, especially since I'd heard that Southern California bankruptcy courts are fairly strict. However, since I didn't have the money to hire an attorney, I did it myself. I used Nolo's book on filing chapter 7 (I forget the exact name). The whole process was very straightfoward, although it was also very time consuming and detailed. I think that if you feel comfortable filing your own income taxes (even if it's not fun), you can file your own no-asset chapter 7. Just be sure to double- and triple-check your work. Of course, the other downside for me was that I didn't have anyone available to answer my questions. I could figure out the whats, wheres and whens, but I didn't know what the process would be like. I didn't know ahead of time that the creditor's meeting was so short and such a piece of cake - definitely the easiest part of filing (for me). I guess my point is that I found filing is detailed and complex, but not difficult. Once I completed all my paperwork, my filing went through quickly and easily, and I got my discharge about two months after filing.