I'm in quite a stew right now, and hoping some kind souls here can
offer up some advice.

Some history: I purchased a home in September of 2002, my first. At
the time I went into the deal, I only had about $4000 in credit card
debt, along with a car loan. Immediately, I invested $4000 in
appliances and $4000 in furniture.

Unfortunately, at this same time I began to experience a sharp decline
in my health. I get no restorative sleep, which leaves me with zero
energy during the daytime. I took a medical leave of absence from
work, what I hoped would be a short-term leave.

A year later, my health has not improved an inch. And in the interim,
I've accrued an absurd amount of debt. In addition to the $12,000 owed
right off the bat, plus a $5,000 balance on the car, I owe:

$7,000 on a credit union loan card...

$7,000 on a secured loan...

$10,000 in credit card debt.

For a long time, I utilized the "rob Peter to pay Paul" technique, and
also used these cards to buy food, gas, medical supplies, etc. I
earned approximately $11,000 this year with freelance writing
assignments and sports wagering. What all this means is that...

1. I have yet to miss a mortgage payment, car payment, or ANY bill of
any kind.

2. I am no closer to finding my health and have exhausted my financial
resources.

First lawyer I spoke to said, "Why declare BK? That would be to
protect your income! You have no income! They can't sue you. Let them
- sue you for what? What if you rack up medical bills a month from
now? You can only do this once."

Second lawyer said, "Yeah, better do it."

First lawyer makes more sense to me, in a perverse way. Honestly, the
thought of declaring BK drives me up the wall, as I worked VERY hard
to make a good name for myself, and my physical ailments are beyond my
control. My worst fear is declaring BK and then managing to resolve
them a month later.

As of right now, I plan on selling my house to remove that
responsibility from my table. I'm fortunate to have family that can
prove free room and board until I improve. That removes an $800
mortgage, $300 utilities, etc. from my plate.

However, with that gone, I still have $1300 in car/credit/loan minimum
payments every month, nearly impossible to keep up with. Yes, I could
sell my car, removing $200. That leaves $1100 in obligations until a
more permanent solution is found.

As to my questions...

1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen
when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those
items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off
that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD
player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air
for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I
don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge
ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air
unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as
substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners?

2. I did not manage to pay Raymour/Flanigan this year for the
furniture. If I move, I do not want to move these items and would
prefer to sell them off to sustain myself a bit longer. What are the
legal ramifications of doing so? Is this really fraud? What can they
do besides sue me for the amount owed if I can not display ownership?
Can they go after the private purchasers? What if I refuse to give
them that information?

3. Same question for the secured loan I took out - what if I sell off
that collateral now?

4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding
information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under
control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I
eventually be "Wanted"?

BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is
crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my
health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative,
though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank
you.

Royler20@aol.com (Royler) wrote in message news:<390bdc2c.0311081522.40b684cc@posting.google.com>...
BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative, though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank you.

You have debts which you cannot pay from your income. So you are
already bankrupt. One way to deal with being bankrupt is to declare
bankruptcy.

Royler20@aol.com (Royler) wrote in message news:<390bdc2c.0311081522.40b684cc@posting.google.com>...
... 1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners?

Sears has a reputation as a difficult creditor. One of the Big Three
difficult debtors, along with the IRS and American Express. In fact,
Sears are one of the few creditors who actually send representatives
to creditors' meetings. (AmEx rarely attends the meetings, and the IRS
doesn't have to because tax debts are not dischargeable.)

It sounds like you are off the hook for everything but the TV/DVD
player. Sears may very well claim that the TV was collateral for the
loan you took out to buy it--- which means they may very well claim
that the debt is not dischargeable and that you will still owe them
the $1300 (in your case) even after your bankruptcy is granted. A
good lawyer will have dealt with Sears before and should know how to
get them off your case (as much as possible, at least.)

--Tim

"Royler" <Royler20@aol.com> wrote in message
news:390bdc2c.0311081522.40b684cc@posting.google.c om... I'm in quite a stew right now, and hoping some kind souls here can offer up some advice. Some history: I purchased a home in September of 2002, my first. At the time I went into the deal, I only had about $4000 in credit card debt, along with a car loan. Immediately, I invested $4000 in appliances and $4000 in furniture. Unfortunately, at this same time I began to experience a sharp decline in my health. I get no restorative sleep, which leaves me with zero energy during the daytime. I took a medical leave of absence from work, what I hoped would be a short-term leave.

Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This sounds like
classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly
combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as
disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor; I'm
simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep
study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and
prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep
apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights'
sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress
myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep.

A year later, my health has not improved an inch. And in the interim, I've accrued an absurd amount of debt. In addition to the $12,000 owed right off the bat, plus a $5,000 balance on the car, I owe: $7,000 on a credit union loan card... $7,000 on a secured loan... $10,000 in credit card debt. For a long time, I utilized the "rob Peter to pay Paul" technique, and also used these cards to buy food, gas, medical supplies, etc. I earned approximately $11,000 this year with freelance writing assignments and sports wagering. What all this means is that... 1. I have yet to miss a mortgage payment, car payment, or ANY bill of any kind. 2. I am no closer to finding my health and have exhausted my financial resources. First lawyer I spoke to said, "Why declare BK? That would be to protect your income! You have no income! They can't sue you. Let them - sue you for what? What if you rack up medical bills a month from now? You can only do this once." Second lawyer said, "Yeah, better do it." First lawyer makes more sense to me, in a perverse way. Honestly, the thought of declaring BK drives me up the wall, as I worked VERY hard to make a good name for myself, and my physical ailments are beyond my control. My worst fear is declaring BK and then managing to resolve them a month later. As of right now, I plan on selling my house to remove that responsibility from my table. I'm fortunate to have family that can prove free room and board until I improve. That removes an $800 mortgage, $300 utilities, etc. from my plate. However, with that gone, I still have $1300 in car/credit/loan minimum payments every month, nearly impossible to keep up with. Yes, I could sell my car, removing $200. That leaves $1100 in obligations until a more permanent solution is found. As to my questions... 1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners?

Sears is notorious for enforcing their security interest on debts owed and
discharged in BK. They'll likely come after you for whatever they can get.
Note however that I had a balance with Sears that was discharged in my BK7,
and they didn't send anyone to the 341 or send a reaffirmation letter or any
sort of legal threat....
2. I did not manage to pay Raymour/Flanigan this year for the furniture. If I move, I do not want to move these items and would prefer to sell them off to sustain myself a bit longer. What are the legal ramifications of doing so? Is this really fraud? What can they do besides sue me for the amount owed if I can not display ownership? Can they go after the private purchasers? What if I refuse to give them that information?

Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture, and you sell the
furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file BK, and they
could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or Thoth, they're
lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander.
3. Same question for the secured loan I took out - what if I sell off that collateral now?

See above.
4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"?

That's not viable. Short of leaving the country and moving somewhere where
the Credit Reporting Agencies can't reach, you're not going to get away from
the effects of stiffing your creditors, since defaulting on all obligations
will utterly WRECK your FICO scores with all three CRAs. Do you really want
to run away from your obligations? Wouldn't it be simpler to declare
Chapter 7 bankruptcy while it's still available to you as an option, and get
the burden of all this debt off your back once and for all?
BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative, though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank you.

BK is hardly financial ruin. Less than two years out of BK7, my FICOs are
in the low-to-mid 600s (TU 624, EXP 618, EQU 669). Not bad, all things
considered.

--P

"PWB" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.wideopenNOSPAMwest.com> wrote in message news:<QridnfdFB6fgbjCi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com>... Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This
sounds like classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor; I'm simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights' sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep.

Ahhh...believe me, I didn't just sit idle. I've had four sleep studies
to date, all of which displayed "mild" apnea. but even on CPAP at a
titrated 8cm, I still exhibit around 50 "unexplained" arousals a night
and no deep sleep whatsoever. Doctors are at a loss. I'm sure
specialists out in NYC or CA are in my future, but that takes time and
money I don't have. Personally, I don't buy the apnea diagnosis, as
I'm only 25 and at a natural weight and physical formity. Something
keeps knocking me out of deep sleep, and the sleep doc doesn't know
what. When I try to impress upon him my personal and professional
ruin, he labels me "depressed." Being a good sport, I tried the
antidepressants, and while they can certainly elevate my mood, I'm
still so tired I spend most days confined to a chair. It's comical.
Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture, and you sell the furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file BK, and they could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or Thoth, they're lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander.

Yes, I would definitely like an answer for this.
4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"? That's not viable. Short of leaving the country and moving somewhere where the Credit Reporting Agencies can't reach, you're not going to get away from the effects of stiffing your creditors, since defaulting on all obligations will utterly WRECK your FICO scores with all three CRAs. Do you really want to run away from your obligations? Wouldn't it be simpler to declare Chapter 7 bankruptcy while it's still available to you as an option, and get

Well, my intention in doing that would not be to dodge my
responsibility, but to avoid BK for as long as possible so I can pay
the debt back. It's quite concievable that I could declare BK, and a
month later, find a "cure" for my ailment. My debt is impressive but
not mammoth. Living with family for one year, a year's salary at my
former job would pretty much wipe it out. Two, if you count mounting
interest and some money to actually exist on.
BK is hardly financial ruin. Less than two years out of BK7, my FICOs are in the low-to-mid 600s (TU 624, EXP 618, EQU 669). Not bad, all things considered.

It's still incredibly discouraging for me and I fear the ensuing
stress and mental anguish is simply going to make my physical
condition worse.

From your first post, and from experienceing the same exact symptoms 5 years
ago, I labeled it as depression. As with any anti-depressant, you need to
take it religiously for 3+ months for them to be fully effective. If you
just took them for 3-6 weeks, they didn't do anything for you.

Zoloft did the trick for me, has no negative effects that I have
experienced, has no noticable effect (grogginess, fuzziness, etc) and I
sleep like a rock now.


"Royler" <Royler20@aol.com> wrote in message
news:390bdc2c.0311090818.76b4ccfb@posting.google.c om... "PWB" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.wideopenNOSPAMwest.com> wrote in message
news:<QridnfdFB6fgbjCi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com>... Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This sounds like classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor;
I'm simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights' sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep. Ahhh...believe me, I didn't just sit idle. I've had four sleep studies to date, all of which displayed "mild" apnea. but even on CPAP at a titrated 8cm, I still exhibit around 50 "unexplained" arousals a night and no deep sleep whatsoever. Doctors are at a loss. I'm sure specialists out in NYC or CA are in my future, but that takes time and money I don't have. Personally, I don't buy the apnea diagnosis, as I'm only 25 and at a natural weight and physical formity. Something keeps knocking me out of deep sleep, and the sleep doc doesn't know what. When I try to impress upon him my personal and professional ruin, he labels me "depressed." Being a good sport, I tried the antidepressants, and while they can certainly elevate my mood, I'm still so tired I spend most days confined to a chair. It's comical. Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture, and you sell
the furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file BK, and they could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or Thoth, they're lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander. Yes, I would definitely like an answer for this. 4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"? That's not viable. Short of leaving the country and moving somewhere
where the Credit Reporting Agencies can't reach, you're not going to get away
from the effects of stiffing your creditors, since defaulting on all
obligations will utterly WRECK your FICO scores with all three CRAs. Do you really
want to run away from your obligations? Wouldn't it be simpler to declare Chapter 7 bankruptcy while it's still available to you as an option, and
get Well, my intention in doing that would not be to dodge my responsibility, but to avoid BK for as long as possible so I can pay the debt back. It's quite concievable that I could declare BK, and a month later, find a "cure" for my ailment. My debt is impressive but not mammoth. Living with family for one year, a year's salary at my former job would pretty much wipe it out. Two, if you count mounting interest and some money to actually exist on. BK is hardly financial ruin. Less than two years out of BK7, my FICOs
are in the low-to-mid 600s (TU 624, EXP 618, EQU 669). Not bad, all things considered. It's still incredibly discouraging for me and I fear the ensuing stress and mental anguish is simply going to make my physical condition worse.

"Royler" <Royler20@aol.com> wrote in message
news:390bdc2c.0311090818.76b4ccfb@posting.google.c om... "PWB" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.wideopenNOSPAMwest.com> wrote in message
news:<QridnfdFB6fgbjCi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com>... Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This sounds like classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor;
I'm simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights' sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep. Ahhh...believe me, I didn't just sit idle. I've had four sleep studies to date, all of which displayed "mild" apnea. but even on CPAP at a titrated 8cm, I still exhibit around 50 "unexplained" arousals a night and no deep sleep whatsoever. Doctors are at a loss. I'm sure specialists out in NYC or CA are in my future, but that takes time and money I don't have. Personally, I don't buy the apnea diagnosis, as I'm only 25 and at a natural weight and physical formity. Something keeps knocking me out of deep sleep, and the sleep doc doesn't know what. When I try to impress upon him my personal and professional ruin, he labels me "depressed." Being a good sport, I tried the antidepressants, and while they can certainly elevate my mood, I'm still so tired I spend most days confined to a chair. It's comical.

Ask the neurologist if it might be central nervous system sleep apnea --
that form of apnea quite often occurs in people at normal weight. That
would explain the 50 unexplained arousals a night. Only problem is, it's
harder to treat CNS apnea than obstructive apnea; however, the CNS apnea
would still occur DESPITE the use of the CPAP. Just a thought.

-P

Well, first of all, you already know that your fall-back plan could be to
file bankruptcy if necessary. To me, that means that you can try some other
options first. And, as you said, your health situation could end up getting
resolved a month from now. Along the health lines, you probably are already
doing this, but just be sure that you give the antidepressant medication
options a thorough try. There are all types of meds out there -- SSRI's,
Wellbutrin, bipolar disorder meds, and others -- so make sure you have tried
all of the alternatives before you give up on that option. That will take
time.

Moneywise, I would say don't sell your house. That will change it from
becoming a liability to an income-producing asset. Go through a realtor who
manages rental properties and rent it out. You'll eliminate your utilities,
you'll get to keep your asset, and you'll probably make some money on the
deal. Meanwhile, go back and live with your family. You are lucky because
you have a place to live and can still keep your home and convert it to an
income stream.

Sell your car -- it's a liability, not an asset.

Sell your furniture or other items that you don't really need and can
convert to cash.

Try to stay current on your credit cards and get them paid down. If you
lost your full-time job, maybe you can do something part-time just to keep
some income coming in.

My guess is that you will turn this around for yourself even though you are
feeling like you can't right now.

Good luck.

"Royler" <Royler20@aol.com> wrote in message
news:390bdc2c.0311081522.40b684cc@posting.google.c om... I'm in quite a stew right now, and hoping some kind souls here can offer up some advice. Some history: I purchased a home in September of 2002, my first. At the time I went into the deal, I only had about $4000 in credit card debt, along with a car loan. Immediately, I invested $4000 in appliances and $4000 in furniture. Unfortunately, at this same time I began to experience a sharp decline in my health. I get no restorative sleep, which leaves me with zero energy during the daytime. I took a medical leave of absence from work, what I hoped would be a short-term leave. A year later, my health has not improved an inch. And in the interim, I've accrued an absurd amount of debt. In addition to the $12,000 owed right off the bat, plus a $5,000 balance on the car, I owe: $7,000 on a credit union loan card... $7,000 on a secured loan... $10,000 in credit card debt. For a long time, I utilized the "rob Peter to pay Paul" technique, and also used these cards to buy food, gas, medical supplies, etc. I earned approximately $11,000 this year with freelance writing assignments and sports wagering. What all this means is that... 1. I have yet to miss a mortgage payment, car payment, or ANY bill of any kind. 2. I am no closer to finding my health and have exhausted my financial resources. First lawyer I spoke to said, "Why declare BK? That would be to protect your income! You have no income! They can't sue you. Let them - sue you for what? What if you rack up medical bills a month from now? You can only do this once." Second lawyer said, "Yeah, better do it." First lawyer makes more sense to me, in a perverse way. Honestly, the thought of declaring BK drives me up the wall, as I worked VERY hard to make a good name for myself, and my physical ailments are beyond my control. My worst fear is declaring BK and then managing to resolve them a month later. As of right now, I plan on selling my house to remove that responsibility from my table. I'm fortunate to have family that can prove free room and board until I improve. That removes an $800 mortgage, $300 utilities, etc. from my plate. However, with that gone, I still have $1300 in car/credit/loan minimum payments every month, nearly impossible to keep up with. Yes, I could sell my car, removing $200. That leaves $1100 in obligations until a more permanent solution is found. As to my questions... 1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners? 2. I did not manage to pay Raymour/Flanigan this year for the furniture. If I move, I do not want to move these items and would prefer to sell them off to sustain myself a bit longer. What are the legal ramifications of doing so? Is this really fraud? What can they do besides sue me for the amount owed if I can not display ownership? Can they go after the private purchasers? What if I refuse to give them that information? 3. Same question for the secured loan I took out - what if I sell off that collateral now? 4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"? BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative, though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank you.

> Ask the neurologist if it might be central nervous system sleep apnea -- that form of apnea quite often occurs in people at normal weight. That would explain the 50 unexplained arousals a night. Only problem is, it's harder to treat CNS apnea than obstructive apnea; however, the CNS apnea would still occur DESPITE the use of the CPAP. Just a thought. -P

Guys,

I appreciate all the advice, re: my sleep problem, but this is not
really what I came here for. I've spent thousands of dollars on CPAP
machines, doctors, medications, tests, etc. Bottom line is, I wake up
at night, doctors do not know why, and because of that, my finances
are screwed. I've spent 12 hours a day on the Internet trying to find
solutions. I'm not really sure anybody can suggest anything I haven't
already tried or thought of, from warm milk to surgery.

FYI: central apnea will show up on a sleep study. I don't have it.

If someone could address my problems, re: Sears trying to reclaim
appliances, or selling those security interests, I would appreciate
it. The clock is ticking for me. Thanks.

Oops, here's a re-write of the paragraph I wrote before:

Moneywise, I would say don't sell your house. Go through a realtor who
manages rental properties and rent it out. That will change your home from a
liability to an income-producing asset. You'll eliminate your utilities,
you'll get to keep your asset, and you'll probably make some money on the
deal. Meanwhile, go back and live with your family. You are lucky because
you have a place to live and can still keep your home and convert it to an
income stream.

> ...and the IRS doesn't have to because tax debts are not dischargeable.

This is not correct. So long as the debt isn't for trust fund
taxes, the returns were filed more than 3 years ago, and the
taxes were assessed more than 240 days ago, both federal and
state taxes are dischargeable.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@erols.com *
* http://www.erols.com/lawyer *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the facts
and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

> > Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture,
and you sell the furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file
BK, and they could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or
Thoth, they're lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander. Yes, I would definitely like an answer for this.

As a practical matter, it is very unlikely that such a creditor
will take any action against you after a bankruptcy. It isn't
cost-effective to hire a lawyer, file a replevin action, serve
you, win a judgment, levy on the furniture, hire an auctioneer,
post a bond, and sell it...and end up losing money.
Well, my intention in doing that would not be to dodge my responsibility, but to avoid BK for as long as possible so I
can pay the debt back.

The problem is that this will cost you a great deal of money, and
when you run out, you're in the same predicament, only without
the money you paid them. And if you obtain new employment or
Congress passes BARF, you may not be able to qualify for a
Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

My rule of thumb is that you file when your debts are at their
maximum and your assets are at your minimum. Waiting usually ends
up costing you money. Potentially a lot of money.

As far as stress is concerned, most of my clients find that
filing *removes* stress, rather than adding to it. The financial
situation is resolved, and your debts are wiped out. The
alternative is worrying about them, dealing with creditor calls
and letters, and worry about having to file for BR.

--
Brett

************************************************** ***************
* Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
* *
* BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
* Attorneys at Law *
* Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
* lawyer@erols.com *
* http://www.erols.com/lawyer *
* *
* Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
************************************************** ***************

The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the facts
and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

"RacerT" <RTC@nospammail.wxy> wrote in message news:<hPCdnbpngID2RzKi4p2dnA@comcast.com>... Oops, here's a re-write of the paragraph I wrote before: Moneywise, I would say don't sell your house. Go through a realtor who manages rental properties and rent it out. That will change your home from a liability to an income-producing asset. You'll eliminate your utilities, you'll get to keep your asset, and you'll probably make some money on the deal. Meanwhile, go back and live with your family. You are lucky because you have a place to live and can still keep your home and convert it to an income stream.

I had thought of this. But, say I DO have to declare BK two months
from now, after I've done everything possible to avoid it. If the
house becomes involved and they foreclose, wouldn't that be a HUGE
mess with tenants? "Hey, I know we signed a year's lease, Joey, but,
um...the bank needs this back."

Also, I'd be concerned that the place would get trashed.

And frankly, one less "bill" with my name on it is an appealing
prospect.

Brett, thanks for your advice. I figure that, worse case, I could just
reaffirm the furniture debt, and though I'd have to pay for something
I no longer own, that's the bed I made for myself. Basically, I just
want to buy more time until my health improves, or I can claim
disability. Since I've been sick for a year, that would be a sizable
retroactive payment.

I know BK is not "The End", but I'm a person who has always had credit
to fall back on for emergencies, impulse purchases, etc...and no, it
never got out of hand until I became too sick to work.

Still thinking, but I appreciate this feedback. Thanks.

"Royler" <Royler20@aol.com> wrote in message
news:390bdc2c.0311101808.16061055@posting.google.c om... I had thought of this. But, say I DO have to declare BK two months from now, after I've done everything possible to avoid it. If the house becomes involved and they foreclose, wouldn't that be a HUGE mess with tenants? "Hey, I know we signed a year's lease, Joey, but, um...the bank needs this back." Also, I'd be concerned that the place would get trashed. And frankly, one less "bill" with my name on it is an appealing prospect.

All good points, although I don't think this issue about the tenants would
matter much if you were giving up the property. The rents would just go to
the bankruptcy trustee and/or the mortgage holder who did the foreclosure.

There is a "look back" period on the sale of real estate if you file
bankruptcy. I think it's one or two years, but I don't remember for sure.
So, if you sell and then file, you might have to account for the proceeds of
the sale.

On the other hand, if the equity in your home is less than the homestead
exemption that you are allowed, you could file a Chapter 7 now and still
keep the house. After the bankruptcy is over, you can share the house and
utilities with one or two other people and collect rent. Your personal
responsibility for the mortgage will have been discharged, but it will still
be secured by the house so you would still have to pay that to keep the
property. But, if the "share the house" idea didn't work out, you could
still give up the house after the bankruptcy by selling it, deeding it back
to the mortgage holder, or (worst option) letting them foreclosure on the
mortgage. My thinking is that if you end up on disability, you might still
be able to own a property and have a place to live that is virtually free.

All of this would need to be discussed with your bankruptcy attorney, of
course.

These are all just some ideas for thought and discussion. But, given what's
going on in your life, I tend to agree with your thinking that you should
start divesting yourself of all of your assets and try to eliminate as many
liabilities as possible. It sounds like you want to simplify your life as
much as possible and want to see if you can come through all of this without
bad credit and without bankruptcy.

Good luck.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I did have the same problem you have. I felt
like I was sleeping my life away, After a sleep study it was also confirmed
I awake every FIVE minutes, so of course I never get got a good nights
rest.. My sleep doctor tried the anti-depressants with no help either. I
agree they suck, but I was willing to try them. After that the doc
prescribed stimulant during the day to keep my awake and able to have my
life back. And my staying up all day with the help of the meds, I sleep
better than ever before.

And now I have my life back...so long as I take my meds.

The End.

"Royler" <Royler20@aol.com> wrote in message
news:390bdc2c.0311100912.3bddab72@posting.google.c om... Ask the neurologist if it might be central nervous system sleep apnea -- that form of apnea quite often occurs in people at normal weight. That would explain the 50 unexplained arousals a night. Only problem is,
it's harder to treat CNS apnea than obstructive apnea; however, the CNS apnea would still occur DESPITE the use of the CPAP. Just a thought. -P Guys, I appreciate all the advice, re: my sleep problem, but this is not really what I came here for. I've spent thousands of dollars on CPAP machines, doctors, medications, tests, etc. Bottom line is, I wake up at night, doctors do not know why, and because of that, my finances are screwed. I've spent 12 hours a day on the Internet trying to find solutions. I'm not really sure anybody can suggest anything I haven't already tried or thought of, from warm milk to surgery. FYI: central apnea will show up on a sleep study. I don't have it. If someone could address my problems, re: Sears trying to reclaim appliances, or selling those security interests, I would appreciate it. The clock is ticking for me. Thanks.

Canzie wrote: From your first post, and from experienceing the same exact symptoms 5 years ago, I labeled it as depression. As with any anti-depressant, you need to take it religiously for 3+ months for them to be fully effective. If you just took them for 3-6 weeks, they didn't do anything for you. Zoloft did the trick for me, has no negative effects that I have experienced, has no noticable effect (grogginess, fuzziness, etc) and I sleep like a rock now.

Just in case anyone in this newsgroup is tempted to get involved with
Michael Papp of iNet Lending (screen name Canzie), I must tell you that
he is not to be trusted. In fact he is a thief and a liar. If you want
to deal with him at least do so knowing that much about him. When I say
he is a thief I mean that he orders services from individuals having no
intention to pay for them. That's defacto thievery. I have done good
work for him, engineering work that he now shows on one of his Web
sites, presenting it as if it were his own work (I can prove that and
prove that it is my own work, not his -- just email me by removing or
replacing the MUNGE text in my reply-to email address). He hasn't paid
even though he continued to order work done weeks after he was invoiced
and say that he was pleased with the progress made on the design
project. He doesn't intend to pay, as evidenced by the fact that he
doesn't return courteous emails and phone messages. I've confirmed that
he is active in business and is not ill or incapacitated (i.e. he has no
legitimate excuses).

If Michael Papp is willing to shaft individuals who do good work for him
and please him with their services imagine what he wouldn't mind doing
to those who simply want him to do good work for them . . . If you want
to take out a loan through him, do a little thinking and a little
research first. Michael Papp claims on one of his own Web sites,
"deadbeatdad.org", that he is "the most arrested man in New Jersey". Of
course he claims that the arrests were unjust, and indicates via many
examples just how much of a pycho his ex-wife is or was in getting him
charged falsely many times. He says that she claimed that he is a
"pathological liar" . . . as if that is an entirely untrue insult. I
now suspect that his wife may be the more honest and sane one of the
two. This man claims he has made two fortunes, and lost both, is now on
his 3rd. I suspect if he made two fortunes he lost them both for
reasons of poor judgement and dubious morals. Michael Papp also claims
in Usenet newsgroup postings that he is making big bucks, lots more than
his critics make. That's a rather telling claim, I think. If it's true
then he's not just a thief, he's particularly dispicable because he
could afford to pay me what he owes me, and if it's false then he's very
obviously a liar.

Don't trust this man.

He uses a number of email aliases, among them are these at bottom -- but
I've MUNGED them just to take the high ethical ground and not expose him
to any more SPAM than is necessary. However, in posting the email
addresses at all I consider that the good of those individuals who might
otherwise unwittingly get involved with this man outweighs consideration
for the man himself.

Beware these email addresses:
iNet_Commercial@verizonNOSPAM.net,
salesMUNGE@inet-lenderNOSPAM.com,
webmasterMUNGE@splitcycle.comNOSPAM.au,
orbital_eliptoidMUNGE@yahooNOSPAM.com,
mpappMUNGE@inet-lenderNOSPAM.com

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Charlotte, North Carolina