I no longer have an attorney since my Chapter 13 was discharged and thought
someone could help with a question that I con't seem to get answered. I'll
first tell my situation and then ask the question. 9 years ago I had a
high paying job but had to relocate for it. At the time I owed 89K on a
condo that was appraised at 135K. I put pretty much put all my excess
money in the equity. I had a few credit cards but used them sparingly with
enough money in the bank to pay off any balance.

I had the condo on the market for 3 years with 3 realtors but could not
find a buyer due to high condo fees (~$350/mo). I eventually had the condo
listed for 99K but still no buyer. In the 4th year on the market, I was the
victim of corporate downsizing. I was never out of work but lost 3 jobs in
a row. When I finally landed a solvent job my pay had been cut by 52%. I
had depleted all of my savings and borrowed money on low interest credit
cards to try to preserve the equity in the condo. When the money ran out,
I was advised to surrender the condo and file a Chapter 13. I had sterling
credit prior, never even a late bill payment.

I successfully endured 4 hard years of Chapter 13 and it is now discharged.
Here's my question:

1) I stayed current with all mortgage payments but missed one through an
oversight and didn't get any notice from the mortgage company. When the
company took me to court, I paid it immediately and have not missed a
payment since. That one miss seemed to make the company very bloodthirsty
or to throw their computers completely out of whack. Although I did not
miss another payment, the mortgage company took me to court two more times
saying I was late on payments, but the judge ruled me to be current after
reviewing my bank statement in both appearances. The last court hearing,
my attorney said that the judge had issued a"stern warning" after
reviewing my flawless repayment record. One week after my 13 was
discharged, this mortgage issued me a statement with over $1000 in
attorney fees. I can understand the first fee for the late payment
(although a simple note to my attorny would have fixed the problem). But
if the ruling was in my favor on the second two hearings, am I responsible
for their attorney fees since their records were in error? This whole
mortage situation has caused me incredible amounts of stress but no company
will refinance my house, now valued at 118K, I owe 91K. I think it is
because of the eroneous credit reports from this mortgage company


Anyone been through anything remotely like this? I'd appeciate any help.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 16:08:55 GMT, tb893@yahoo.com (T Becker) arranged
a number of random electrons thusly:
Although I did notmiss another payment, the mortgage company took me to court two more timessaying I was late on payments, but the judge ruled me to be current afterreviewing my bank statement in both appearances. The last court hearing,my attorney said that the judge had issued a"stern warning" afterreviewing my flawless repayment record. One week after my 13 wasdischarged, this mortgage issued me a statement with over $1000 inattorney fees.

You'll need to retain a (rather) knowledgeable attorney to fight this,
but they violated the terms of the bankruptcy discharge. *ALL*
attorney's fees relative to a bankruptcy *MUST* be approved by the
judge. Judges do not take kindly to anyone messing with their
declarations. Federal judges have even less forbearance on this point.

If they are claiming that the attorney's fees are for the appearances
before the bankruptcy judge, then they needed to have had them
approved by that judge before the bankruptcy was discharged. Once they
agreed to the discharge, they were agreeing that you were current with
them. Now that they are claiming that you were not current, you need
to seek the protection of the court. Since the fees were for actions
that were part of the bk, your attorney may be able to get the bk
reopened (this is different in each bk court, and you'll need the
attorney referenced above).

The "lying in wait" bit seems to be rather common with some mortgage
lenders -- once you've finished your bk, you don't have a lawyer on
retainer (your bk lawyer has to stay with the case until it is
discharged, unless s/he specifically asks to be relieved) and some
lenders think that they can get away with murder. Once they are forced
into court, they they either can a) claim that the $1000 is an
accounting error, and they are no longer asking for the money, or b)
admit that the $1000 was attorney fees for fighting the bk, and that
they have no legitimate claim for the money.

Google for "lying in wait"+mortgage and you'll find how many other
folks are being/have been trapped like you.

Congratulations on your discharge. Four years of a Chapter 13 must have
been torture. I never did that but I heard it's awful.

It might help if you said what state you are in because different states
have different laws regarding the conduct of your mortgage company.

I recently watched a very good local TV show about bankruptcy and
foreclosures. It also dealt with predatory lending and some of the things
that mortgage companies do which your mortgage company is doing (not
crediting payments that were made, imposing improper legal fees, etc). It's
a one-hour show that was broadcast on September 22, 2003. If you want to
watch it (or any of their episodes from the last year), you can do so by
going to
http://www.lawjournaltv.com and clicking on the webcast button and looking
for the recent episode on bankruptcies and foreclosures. It might give you
some ideas about what you can do in your case.

This probably isn't the correct procedure but, if you went to court on your
own before (when the Judge ruled in your favor), you might want to try this.
Write a brief letter to the Judge, with a copy to the mortgage company's
attorneys, and ask for a follow-up hearing on the matter regarding the
attorney fees that you have been assessed. Let the Judge know that he/she
ruled in your favor but that the mortgage company later charged you attorney
fees in the matter. Give the docket number, the date of the prior hearing,
etc., of course. My hunch is that the attorneys for the mortgage company
will not want to go before the Judge again on that issue. They probably
practice law in that court all the time and have ongoing contact with the
Judge. So, if what they are doing is improper, they might want to just
correct in on their own just to please the Judge and preserve their
reputation as attorneys. If you had an attorney before, and didn't
represent yourself, then obviously you would ask your attorney.

A better plan might be to talk with a consumer law attorney in your area
with the hope that what the mortgage company is doing is improper and
entitles you to something like triple damages plus your attorney fees. If
it's one of those types of cases, you can have the consumer law attorney
handle the whole thing at no cost to you.

I am not a lawyer, just a wannabe as you can probably tell by the fact that
I spend my time watching shows like Law Journal.

If you do watch the webcast, let us know what you think.
"T Becker" <tb893@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tb893-ya02408000R0510031132230001@news.ind.sbcglobal.net ... I no longer have an attorney since my Chapter 13 was discharged and
thought someone could help with a question that I con't seem to get answered.
I'll first tell my situation and then ask the question. 9 years ago I had a high paying job but had to relocate for it. At the time I owed 89K on a condo that was appraised at 135K. I put pretty much put all my excess money in the equity. I had a few credit cards but used them sparingly
with enough money in the bank to pay off any balance. I had the condo on the market for 3 years with 3 realtors but could not find a buyer due to high condo fees (~$350/mo). I eventually had the condo listed for 99K but still no buyer. In the 4th year on the market, I was
the victim of corporate downsizing. I was never out of work but lost 3 jobs
in a row. When I finally landed a solvent job my pay had been cut by 52%. I had depleted all of my savings and borrowed money on low interest credit cards to try to preserve the equity in the condo. When the money ran out, I was advised to surrender the condo and file a Chapter 13. I had
sterling credit prior, never even a late bill payment. I successfully endured 4 hard years of Chapter 13 and it is now
discharged. Here's my question: 1) I stayed current with all mortgage payments but missed one through an oversight and didn't get any notice from the mortgage company. When the company took me to court, I paid it immediately and have not missed a payment since. That one miss seemed to make the company very bloodthirsty or to throw their computers completely out of whack. Although I did not miss another payment, the mortgage company took me to court two more times saying I was late on payments, but the judge ruled me to be current after reviewing my bank statement in both appearances. The last court hearing, my attorney said that the judge had issued a"stern warning" after reviewing my flawless repayment record. One week after my 13 was discharged, this mortgage issued me a statement with over $1000 in attorney fees. I can understand the first fee for the late payment (although a simple note to my attorny would have fixed the problem). But if the ruling was in my favor on the second two hearings, am I responsible for their attorney fees since their records were in error? This whole mortage situation has caused me incredible amounts of stress but no
company will refinance my house, now valued at 118K, I owe 91K. I think it is because of the eroneous credit reports from this mortgage company Anyone been through anything remotely like this? I'd appeciate any help.

Thanks for the replies. I am gopping to pursue some of the things
mentioned. My state is Indiana. I would appreciate any other ideas. I
have hired an attorney but he doesn't seem to have experience in this
particular area.

Check out the NACA website (I think it's www.naca.org but not sure; it
should be easy to find). Do a member search for your state. These
attorneys specialize in consumer fraud, credit issues and reporting
etc. You might find one that knows exactly what you are referring to
and can help you. It's not a field where there's a lot of attorneys
who actually have enough knowledge in this area.
Good Luck.


tb893@yahoo.com (T Becker) wrote in message news:<tb893-ya02408000R0810032033530001@news.ind.sbcglobal.net>... Thanks for the replies. I am gopping to pursue some of the things mentioned. My state is Indiana. I would appreciate any other ideas. I have hired an attorney but he doesn't seem to have experience in this particular area.

So far my luck with the NACA attorneys: only take class action cases
or don't answer initial phone calls. With a foreclosure hanging over
our heads and time running out, won't any of these guys help us out?
Claiming to fight for the consumer is one thing, but actually even
listening to our plight is another.

Doesn't anybody care about the "little guy"?


torgo7@comcast.net (Sharon) wrote in message news:<632c3647.0310170647.1887c6c0@posting.google.com>... Check out the NACA website (I think it's www.naca.org but not sure; it should be easy to find). Do a member search for your state. These attorneys specialize in consumer fraud, credit issues and reporting etc. You might find one that knows exactly what you are referring to and can help you. It's not a field where there's a lot of attorneys who actually have enough knowledge in this area. Good Luck. tb893@yahoo.com (T Becker) wrote in message news:<tb893-ya02408000R0810032033530001@news.ind.sbcglobal.net>... Thanks for the replies. I am gopping to pursue some of the things mentioned. My state is Indiana. I would appreciate any other ideas. I have hired an attorney but he doesn't seem to have experience in this particular area.