I live in SC and have a similar situation. My brother and sister allowed me
to use a piece of property we own jointly (1/3 each) to secure a note at a
bank about 7 years ago. My brother and sister signed a "Subrogation"
agreement and signed the mortgage. They did not sign the "Note" at the bank
and did not receive any of the proceeds of the loan. The Trustee is now
saying that he is selling the property and holding my brother and sister
accountable for 1/3 each of the note at the bank. His plan is to sell the
property, payoff the Note/Mortgage, then take 1/3 of whats left to pay my
creditors and give the remaining two-thirds to my brother and sister. This
does not sound right to me but my lawyer says its the way things are done.
My brother's attorney thinks differently and is going to challenge it.

Your mother may very well have to hire an attorney to protect her interest
in the property or the Trustee might try something similar in your case.

Good Luck
"pdol" <pdol@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:4d56fcc6.0308291340.21359a10@posting.google.c om... Here is my situation. I currently owe around $35k in unsecured debt that is in my name & 10K that I owe on debt to my mother for money I used to finanace a now failed business. I own my home, but it doesn't have much equity (around 10K). I also own a property with my mother and brother. My mother and myself are the only ones on the title. This property does have some equity, but only 1/3 is mine (around 12K which I want to use to pay my mother). I have been unable to service my unsecured debt and things are not improving. I am in CCCS for some of the debt, but 2 of the creditors are not in the plan and won't go into it. With what I owe CCCS and the other 2 creditors expenses each month,child support, etc. I am just getting in deeper debt as time goes by. The 2 creditors that aren't in CCCS are eating me alive with interest and fees. My question is am I eligible for a chapter 7 without jepordizing by mother's and brother's share in the 2nd property? If not what are my options.

Thanks for all the advice, unfortunately, it doesn't sound good for
me. I am starting the process to liqudate all of my assets of value
(current home and second home). I will try to hold off my creditors
until this is done. I anticipate that after the sale of both homes I
will net around 18K (not much). I plan on using this to payoff what I
can & then continue paying everyone else. If I proceed this way and
still am having difficuty in paying these bills and I am forced into
bankruptcy later then will those debts be discharged or will they look
at the sale as fraud? I will be using the proceeds to payoff debt.
Basically I want to use the proceeds to pay those that have highest
interest and payments.
I'm hoping to avoid the bankruptcy option altogether, but selling
assets may just be buying time. I have seen alot of information on
these debt settlement firms, do these work? My understanding is that
you quit paying your bills, then contribute money to a account and
they try to negotiate settlement with the creditors. What's to keep
the creditors from filing a lien against my properties before I sell
them or garnishing wages?

You probably have more options than you realize. But, the only way you will
know for sure is to talk with one or more bankruptcy attorneys in your area.
You have several different issues and possibilities to consider. However,
if you just start taking action on your own, it is possible that you could
make things worse for yourself. When you sell assets and then later file
for bankruptcy, there are certain "look-back" periods that apply. The
look-back periods are different for different types of assets and whether
the assets were sold to an insider, etc. However, there are legal
bankruptcy planning strategies that you can utilize. Many bankruptcy
attorneys provide a free initial consultation, so visit a few and see what
they have to say.

You can also try reading the book "How to File for Bankruptcy" published by
Nolo Press ( http://www.nolo.com ). It explains the process, the look-back
timelines, the rules that apply for different states, etc. I don't know if
moving into the property in Florida and living there is an option for you,
but that could change your residency for filing, the rules that apply, etc.

There are also questions about how you figured the "equity" in your home and
the property that you own with two others in Florida. Equity means how much
you would end up with after a sale and AFTER subtracting all of the selling
transaction costs and commissions and payoffs to lenders, etc.

It might be possible to sell your interest in the Florida property to your
mother in exchange for paying off the money you owe her. However, that
would be a sale to an insider and a preferential repayment of a debt to an
insider, so certain rules and timelines would apply.

Or, maybe you could sell your interest in the Florida property to the other
two owners at a fair market price and use the money you receive to live on.
In the meantime, you might be able to borrow some additional money against
your Ohio home to give you additional money to live on while reducing the
"equity" you have in that home. Most likely, any judgments that your
creditors later get against you won't apply to your Florida property because
your name will no longer be on the deed. So, that will keep that property
from becoming encumbered by your debts. If you do file Chapter 7 bankruptcy
later on, your lawyer can probably get any judgments cancelled so they won't
remain as liens on your Ohio property.

Then again, selling everything now and keeping the cash to live on might be
your best approach. I don't think it's a fraudulent transfer of assets if
you sell them at fair market values and don't use the cash you receive to
make any special payments to insiders. With regard to the money you owe
your mother, you can have that discharged in a later bankruptcy (if it was
an unsecured loan). But, after the bankruptcy is completed, there is
nothing to prevent you from repaying any of the debts that were discharged,
including the loan from your mother.

The bottom line, of course, is that you should review your situation with a
bankruptcy attorney.

"pdol" <pdol@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:4d56fcc6.0308310843.45806e10@posting.google.c om... Thanks for all the advice, unfortunately, it doesn't sound good for me. I am starting the process to liqudate all of my assets of value (current home and second home). I will try to hold off my creditors until this is done. I anticipate that after the sale of both homes I will net around 18K (not much). I plan on using this to payoff what I can & then continue paying everyone else. If I proceed this way and still am having difficuty in paying these bills and I am forced into bankruptcy later then will those debts be discharged or will they look at the sale as fraud? I will be using the proceeds to payoff debt. Basically I want to use the proceeds to pay those that have highest interest and payments. I'm hoping to avoid the bankruptcy option altogether, but selling assets may just be buying time. I have seen alot of information on these debt settlement firms, do these work? My understanding is that you quit paying your bills, then contribute money to a account and they try to negotiate settlement with the creditors. What's to keep the creditors from filing a lien against my properties before I sell them or garnishing wages?

I appreciate the advice again. I have decided that I will liquidate
the assets I have and try to negotiate a settlement with the cc
compaines I owe. I tried my initial settlement offer with one of the
compaines today but they wouldn't even talk to me because last month I
brought it current. My question is how past due do the accounts need
to be before they will consider a settlement? Do they have to be 1
month, 2, 3 or more. Is it best to just stop paying everyone and
depositing the money in an account until they are ready to settle?
The funny thing is I can get around 80% of what I owe from a friend
and just pay him back but it seems that you need to be very late
before they consider a settlement. By the time the creditors are
ready to settle, 80% will be equal 100% of what I owe today. What is
the best route to take to settle these accounts. Any advice would be
appreciated. Has anyone had any luck settling debts and what are the
typical precentages?

"AcerVen" <ACVN@bcdef.ghi> wrote in message news:<0uedncpqZ-UBqc-iXTWJhQ@comcast.com>... You probably have more options than you realize. But, the only way you will know for sure is to talk with one or more bankruptcy attorneys in your area. You have several different issues and possibilities to consider. However, if you just start taking action on your own, it is possible that you could make things worse for yourself. When you sell assets and then later file for bankruptcy, there are certain "look-back" periods that apply. The look-back periods are different for different types of assets and whether the assets were sold to an insider, etc. However, there are legal bankruptcy planning strategies that you can utilize. Many bankruptcy attorneys provide a free initial consultation, so visit a few and see what they have to say. You can also try reading the book "How to File for Bankruptcy" published by Nolo Press ( http://www.nolo.com ). It explains the process, the look-back timelines, the rules that apply for different states, etc. I don't know if moving into the property in Florida and living there is an option for you, but that could change your residency for filing, the rules that apply, etc. There are also questions about how you figured the "equity" in your home and the property that you own with two others in Florida. Equity means how much you would end up with after a sale and AFTER subtracting all of the selling transaction costs and commissions and payoffs to lenders, etc. It might be possible to sell your interest in the Florida property to your mother in exchange for paying off the money you owe her. However, that would be a sale to an insider and a preferential repayment of a debt to an insider, so certain rules and timelines would apply. Or, maybe you could sell your interest in the Florida property to the other two owners at a fair market price and use the money you receive to live on. In the meantime, you might be able to borrow some additional money against your Ohio home to give you additional money to live on while reducing the "equity" you have in that home. Most likely, any judgments that your creditors later get against you won't apply to your Florida property because your name will no longer be on the deed. So, that will keep that property from becoming encumbered by your debts. If you do file Chapter 7 bankruptcy later on, your lawyer can probably get any judgments cancelled so they won't remain as liens on your Ohio property. Then again, selling everything now and keeping the cash to live on might be your best approach. I don't think it's a fraudulent transfer of assets if you sell them at fair market values and don't use the cash you receive to make any special payments to insiders. With regard to the money you owe your mother, you can have that discharged in a later bankruptcy (if it was an unsecured loan). But, after the bankruptcy is completed, there is nothing to prevent you from repaying any of the debts that were discharged, including the loan from your mother. The bottom line, of course, is that you should review your situation with a bankruptcy attorney. "pdol" <pdol@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:4d56fcc6.0308310843.45806e10@posting.google.c om... Thanks for all the advice, unfortunately, it doesn't sound good for me. I am starting the process to liqudate all of my assets of value (current home and second home). I will try to hold off my creditors until this is done. I anticipate that after the sale of both homes I will net around 18K (not much). I plan on using this to payoff what I can & then continue paying everyone else. If I proceed this way and still am having difficuty in paying these bills and I am forced into bankruptcy later then will those debts be discharged or will they look at the sale as fraud? I will be using the proceeds to payoff debt. Basically I want to use the proceeds to pay those that have highest interest and payments. I'm hoping to avoid the bankruptcy option altogether, but selling assets may just be buying time. I have seen alot of information on these debt settlement firms, do these work? My understanding is that you quit paying your bills, then contribute money to a account and they try to negotiate settlement with the creditors. What's to keep the creditors from filing a lien against my properties before I sell them or garnishing wages?