Perhaps I should have prefaced this older and southern, lol.

I went to a neighbors house for tea yesterday. My neighbor is maybe
60. She wanted me to meet one of our neighbors who is perhaps 78ish
and to let her see our baby. The neighbor whose house I went to is a
very nice woman. She and her husband have known my husband's family
since he was a baby. With that being said, I will get to the point.
The neighbor's son and wife are having a tough time having a baby. I
asked her if she wanted the name of the doctor that we used. Nope,
they had decided to adopt. She said they sent out about fifty letters
to pbms through the agency they are using. I was stunned at the
ongoing conversation for a number of reasons and maybe amazed at the
heightened sensitivity I have to the subject since the rest of the
world sees fit to describe adoption and adoptees in such a fashion.
First of all, there is a discussion about adoption that arises where
neighbor number two talks about a friend whose child adopted. This
person adopted two kids and one was such a smart, handsome boy...boy
was he handsome and he ended up with a great career. They sure got
lucky with him (she said). They weren't so lucky with the girl, she
was not pretty of a child. To which neighbor number one says (and
truly thought this was a sensitive answer) well, you know you have to
take whatever you get and keep them just like you would if you had
them. Then, leans over to neighbor number two and (IN FRONT OF ME)
says, "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very
very lucky with her." Which was definitely meant as a compliment as I
know this neighbor is fond of me. However, I felt compelled to lean
over and say, "I don't TELL PEOPLE THAT I AM ADOPTED FOR THE MOST PART
and THAT IS PERSONAL oh yeah and I AM NOT A PUPPY that someone got
lucky with" but I held my tongue realizing their age and that it
simply wasn't a battle they'd "get". They just thought this was the
most normal of conversations for them and to me that is a bit scary in
how some (and note I said some) people view their little adoptees or
grand adoptees. There was more to the conversation, including the
usual savior bs

I don't really know the point to this post or why I was so terribly
amazed at this conversation, just thought I'd share. I felt like I
needed to be patted on the head for being such a good little adoptee
girl and not being ugly or stupid for my parents. Hey, and I actually
hedge my bushes outside too, what a bonus. Man, they struck gold with
me. LOL

I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue.
Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it
necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post.

DMC

"well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got veryvery lucky with her."

in article 20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com, Dmc10709 at
dmc10709@aol.com wrote on 13/12/03 5:05 pm:
I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMC "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very very lucky with her."

I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As an
adolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should know
"this is not my real family".

Robin

>Subject: Re: Stupid things OLDER people say about adoptionFrom: Robin spamdump@postadoption.infoDate: 12/13/03 12:13 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <BC00F93B.2BB4E%spamdump@postadoption.info>in article 20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com, Dmc10709 atdmc10709@aol.com wrote on 13/12/03 5:05 pm: I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMC "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very very lucky with her."I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As anadolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should know"this is not my real family".



< chuckle > My daughter does that all the time. :>)

My son, however, takes great pains to avoid the topic altogether among his
peers. Go figger.

Dad

dmc10709@aol.com (Dmc10709) wrote in message news:<20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com>... I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMC
That is how I felt. It was my Mother in law who told Neighbor #1 in
the first place. I was shocked that she knew. I certainly didn't think
it was an introductory thing.

adoptadad@aol.com (AdoptaDad) wrote in message news:<20031213142708.04203.00000879@mb-m29.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Stupid things OLDER people say about adoptionFrom: Robin spamdump@postadoption.infoDate: 12/13/03 12:13 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <BC00F93B.2BB4E%spamdump@postadoption.info>in article 20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com, Dmc10709 atdmc10709@aol.com wrote on 13/12/03 5:05 pm: I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMC> "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very> very lucky with her."I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As anadolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should know"this is not my real family". < chuckle > My daughter does that all the time. :>) My son, however, takes great pains to avoid the topic altogether among his peers. Go figger. Dad

Well, it wasn't necessarily that that I meant with this post, just
more of how seriously some people take it...like ohhhhhhhhhhhhh she's
ya know, well adopted. Sort of makes me chuckle and sort of makes me
think it is none of their business. Just funny topic of conversation
anywhere except well here.

In article <4b23522a.0312131513.237456ce@posting.google.com>, Debbie says...dmc10709@aol.com (Dmc10709) wrote in message news:<20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com>... I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMCThat is how I felt. It was my Mother in law who told Neighbor #1 inthe first place. I was shocked that she knew. I certainly didn't thinkit was an introductory thing.

I remember when I was growing up that I assumed that all my aparents' friends
knew I was adopted (the really close ones did). Sometimes when my aparents had
a dinner party, they'd have me serve as "hostess" (serve hor d'ovres, cocktails,
etc.) - I was about ten and all dressed up. I distinctly remember one of my
parents' friends telling me "You look more and more like your mother every day".
Believe me, that couldn't have been further from the truth - we don't resemble
each other at ALL. My amom and I just shared a wink over that one.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

aspensky writes:

<snip>
I don't really know the point to this post or why I was so terriblyamazed at this conversation, just thought I'd share. I felt like Ineeded to be patted on the head for being such a good little adopteegirl and not being ugly or stupid for my parents. Hey, and I actuallyhedge my bushes outside too, what a bonus. Man, they struck gold withme. LOL


LOL!!

Your entire tea party sounds surreal to me, Deb. But, yeah. Your parents struck
gold.

I do know the basis for this conversation which comes from the basis of some
old, maybe still widespread beliefs/fears about adoption. The belief is that
people who place children for adoption *must* have something terribly wrong
with them and their offspring are at risk for being...well....less than. While
I have never endured a tea time conversation quite as ridiculous as the one you
endured, I have endured similar commentary. I have been told more times than I
can count, "You *adopted* your boys?? They are just beautiful! They are
wonderful children! You got lucky twice!" In other words, "They don't appear
to be inferior AT ALL!"




P2P

"Robibnikoff" <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:l7NCb.36274$cJ5.5255@www.newsranger.com... In article <4b23522a.0312131513.237456ce@posting.google.com>, Debbie
says...dmc10709@aol.com (Dmc10709) wrote in message
news:<20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com>... I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private
issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought
it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMCThat is how I felt. It was my Mother in law who told Neighbor #1 inthe first place. I was shocked that she knew. I certainly didn't thinkit was an introductory thing. I remember when I was growing up that I assumed that all my aparents'
friends knew I was adopted (the really close ones did). Sometimes when my
aparents had a dinner party, they'd have me serve as "hostess" (serve hor d'ovres,
cocktails, etc.) - I was about ten and all dressed up. I distinctly remember one of
my parents' friends telling me "You look more and more like your mother every
day".


I don't think that I would have ever been told by my sister that her husband
was adopted had my dad not made a comment much like the one above. We were
all at dinner and my dad said something her hubby looking like a picture of
his father at the same age. Since her hubby was not there she told us that
he was adopted as a baby (from a foreign country no less). Though I do have
to agree, he does look a lot like his father.

palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031213191445.26331.00000788@mb-m15.aol.com>... aspensky writes: <snip>I don't really know the point to this post or why I was so terriblyamazed at this conversation, just thought I'd share. I felt like Ineeded to be patted on the head for being such a good little adopteegirl and not being ugly or stupid for my parents. Hey, and I actuallyhedge my bushes outside too, what a bonus. Man, they struck gold withme. LOL LOL!! Your entire tea party sounds surreal to me, Deb. But, yeah. Your parents struck gold. I do know the basis for this conversation which comes from the basis of some old, maybe still widespread beliefs/fears about adoption. The belief is that people who place children for adoption *must* have something terribly wrong with them and their offspring are at risk for being...well....less than. While I have never endured a tea time conversation quite as ridiculous as the one you endured, I have endured similar commentary. I have been told more times than I can count, "You *adopted* your boys?? They are just beautiful! They are wonderful children! You got lucky twice!" In other words, "They don't appear to be inferior AT ALL!" P2P

It's the bad blood argument.

Di

"Robin" <spamdump@postadoption.info> wrote in message
news:BC00F93B.2BB4E%spamdump@postadoption.info... in article 20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com, Dmc10709 at dmc10709@aol.com wrote on 13/12/03 5:05 pm: I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private
issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought
it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMC "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very very lucky with her." I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As an adolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should know "this is not my real family".

LOL - and I bet MOST adolescents would give their eye teeth to be able
(truthfully) to deny their families, at some stage!

Helen
Robin

Always thought of my family as my 'real family - can't imagine life without my
sister.


I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As anadolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should know"this is not my real family".Robin

>It's the bad blood argument.Di

Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a
mindset, an assumption.

I love busting those assumptions.




P2P

in article 20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com, Palms2pines at
palms2pines@aol.comh8spam wrote on 14/12/03 6:32 pm:
It's the bad blood argument. Di Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a mindset, an assumption. I love busting those assumptions.

I've never been sure what 'bad blood' is supposed to mean in this context.
It is a phrase that I am far more familiar with from nineteenth century
death certificates were it was used as a euphemism for congenital syphilis.

A quick Google suggests that it was used in a similar but far more sinister
way in the US http://hsc.virginia.edu/hs-library/historical/apology/


Robin

Robin states:
I've never been sure what 'bad blood' is supposed to mean in this context.>>

Genetically inferior.




P2P

patrice68@bigpond.com.au (Dian) wrote in message news:<c599139c.0312140001.6246e739@posting.google.com>... palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031213191445.26331.00000788@mb-m15.aol.com>... aspensky writes: <snip>I don't really know the point to this post or why I was so terriblyamazed at this conversation, just thought I'd share. I felt like Ineeded to be patted on the head for being such a good little adopteegirl and not being ugly or stupid for my parents. Hey, and I actuallyhedge my bushes outside too, what a bonus. Man, they struck gold withme. LOL LOL!! Your entire tea party sounds surreal to me, Deb. But, yeah. Your parents struck gold.
I do know the basis for this conversation which comes from the basis of some old, maybe still widespread beliefs/fears about adoption. The belief is that people who place children for adoption *must* have something terribly wrong with them and their offspring are at risk for being...well....less than. While I have never endured a tea time conversation quite as ridiculous as the one you endured, I have endured similar commentary. I have been told more times than I can count, "You *adopted* your boys?? They are just beautiful! They are wonderful children! You got lucky twice!" In other words, "They don't appear to be inferior AT ALL!" P2P
Yes, exactly like they are looking for flaws. :( It was funny in an
odd way, these ladies meant absolutely nothing wrong by what they said
and like I said not something I wanted to jump on, just made for a
weird experience. Kind of the, "I bet her parents couldn't love her
more if she was their own."

"helicon" <helicon@eircom.net> wrote in message news:<cV_Cb.665$HR.2207@news.indigo.ie>... "Robin" <spamdump@postadoption.info> wrote in message news:BC00F93B.2BB4E%spamdump@postadoption.info... in article 20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com, Dmc10709 at dmc10709@aol.com wrote on 13/12/03 5:05 pm: I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never thought it necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. DMC> "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very> very lucky with her." I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As an adolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should know "this is not my real family". LOL - and I bet MOST adolescents would give their eye teeth to be able (truthfully) to deny their families, at some stage! Helen

Hmm I think most kkids might think that at one time or another, but it
still isn't a real possibility for them. Quite a different thing.

> Yes, exactly like they are looking for flaws. :( It was funny in an odd way, these ladies meant absolutely nothing wrong by what they said and like I said not something I wanted to jump on, just made for a weird experience. Kind of the, "I bet her parents couldn't love her more if she was their own."


Personally I think that Society's attitude toward adoption is rarely
acknowledged. Outwardly the world praises adoption as a perfect
solution for "unwanted" children and barren couples, but I have
noticed more a sense of discomfort toward the adoptee, kind of like
"you never know what you'll get or where it came from". If the adoptee
turns out to be a successful, well-balanced individual, then the
aparents are considered fortunate and often get the credit for the
great job they did. On the other hand if the adoptee displays
emotional problems, people are quick to blame it on inferior genes,
the emotional impact of adoption itself is rarely taken into
consideration.

I believe there IS a stigma attached to adoption. The adoptee is a
mysterious person, without a past and for some is perceived as a
potential threat. The unspoken perception can be very powerful -
"Well, you know he/she was adopted". As a child, did you ever bring
home a stray cat or dog and have your mother refuse to let you keep
it? "You don't know WHERE it came from!!!" Hence it is potentially
harmful> People seem to have a NEED to know where something or someONE
came from and this is true in most cultures. Historically we value,
even revere ancestry and those who have no roots are often seen as a
threat.

The American way of adoption is unnatural. On some level people know
that and in spite of their best attempts they will react on a gut
level with distrust and unease.

Pat

"Debbie" <aspensky@knology.net> wrote in message
news:4b23522a.0312141749.3c3b1699@posting.google.c om... "helicon" <helicon@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:<cV_Cb.665$HR.2207@news.indigo.ie>... "Robin" <spamdump@postadoption.info> wrote in message news:BC00F93B.2BB4E%spamdump@postadoption.info... in article 20031213120535.29555.00000075@mb-m02.aol.com, Dmc10709 at dmc10709@aol.com wrote on 13/12/03 5:05 pm: > I've never told anyone I'm adopted. Always thought it was a private issue. > Now, relatives have told others as have my parents, but I never
thought it > necessary to tell anyone. I well understand your post. > > DMC > > >> "well you know, Debbie is an adopted child. Her parents got very >> very lucky with her." I've never had any problem with people knowing that I'm adopted. As an adolescent I thought it particularly important that everyone should
know "this is not my real family". LOL - and I bet MOST adolescents would give their eye teeth to be able (truthfully) to deny their families, at some stage! Helen Hmm I think most kkids might think that at one time or another, but it still isn't a real possibility for them. Quite a different thing.

Well I *know* that! <s>

Helen

palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>...It's the bad blood argument.Di Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a mindset, an assumption. I love busting those assumptions. P2P


Good on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an end
to such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed when
it came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that it
wasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' who
designed the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.
It was those who judged them.
Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood.

Di

In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says...palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>...It's the bad blood argument.Di Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a mindset, an assumption. I love busting those assumptions. P2PGood on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an endto such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed whenit came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that itwasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' whodesigned the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.It was those who judged them.Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood.

Deary me - Godwin alert ;)

Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're referring to?

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

"Dian" <patrice68@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com ... palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message
news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>...It's the bad blood argument.Di Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and
becomes a mindset, an assumption. I love busting those assumptions. P2P Good on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an end to such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed when it came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that it wasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' who designed the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps. It was those who judged them. Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Di

But don't you keep trumpeting any argument of Nature over Nurture? (or is
that only when it is in favour of Good Blood from the bmother?)

Jason

Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<rVjDb.36512$cJ5.5442@www.newsranger.com>... In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says...palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>... >It's the bad blood argument. > >Di > > > Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a mindset, an assumption. I love busting those assumptions. P2PGood on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an endto such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed whenit came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that itwasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' whodesigned the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.It was those who judged them.Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Deary me - Godwin alert ;) Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're referring to?

My son's half German too. But you've missed the point. That point
being that most if not all crimes against humanity have been
perpetrated by men in positions of power, and not by the poor
uneducated or feeble minded.

Di Robyn Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster #1557

"Dian" <patrice68@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:c599139c.0312160304.35261eab@posting.google.c om... Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:<rVjDb.36512$cJ5.5442@www.newsranger.com>... In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says...palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message
news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>...> >It's the bad blood argument.> >> >Di> >> >> >>> Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and
becomes a> mindset, an assumption.>> I love busting those assumptions.>>>>> P2PGood on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an endto such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed whenit came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that itwasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' whodesigned the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.It was those who judged them.Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Deary me - Godwin alert ;) Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're
referring to? My son's half German too. But you've missed the point. That point being that most if not all crimes against humanity have been perpetrated by men in positions of power, and not by the poor uneducated or feeble minded.

"Dian" <patrice68@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:c599139c.0312160304.35261eab@posting.google.c om... Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:<rVjDb.36512$cJ5.5442@www.newsranger.com>... In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says...palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message
news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>...> >It's the bad blood argument.> >> >Di> >> >> >>> Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and
becomes a> mindset, an assumption.>> I love busting those assumptions.>>>>> P2PGood on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an endto such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed whenit came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that itwasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' whodesigned the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.It was those who judged them.Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Deary me - Godwin alert ;) Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're
referring to? My son's half German too. But you've missed the point. That point being that most if not all crimes against humanity have been perpetrated by men in positions of power, and not by the poor uneducated or feeble minded. Di

Well done, you win this weeks POINT OUT THE BLEEDING OBVIOUS award.
The poor uneducated and feeble minded are incapable of commiting crimes
against humanity, which, by their very nature, require someone in a position
of power.

Jason

Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<rVjDb.36512$cJ5.5442@www.newsranger.com>... In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says...palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>... >It's the bad blood argument. > >Di > > > Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a mindset, an assumption. I love busting those assumptions. P2PGood on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an endto such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed whenit came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that itwasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' whodesigned the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.It was those who judged them.Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Deary me - Godwin alert ;) Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're referring to? Robyn Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster #1557

My bmom was full German...YIKES!

patsegatto@sbcglobal.net (Pat) wrote in message news:<412a0546.0312150247.149420b4@posting.google.com>... Yes, exactly like they are looking for flaws. :( It was funny in an odd way, these ladies meant absolutely nothing wrong by what they said and like I said not something I wanted to jump on, just made for a weird experience. Kind of the, "I bet her parents couldn't love her more if she was their own." Personally I think that Society's attitude toward adoption is rarely acknowledged. Outwardly the world praises adoption as a perfect solution for "unwanted" children and barren couples, but I have noticed more a sense of discomfort toward the adoptee, kind of like "you never know what you'll get or where it came from". If the adoptee turns out to be a successful, well-balanced individual, then the aparents are considered fortunate and often get the credit for the great job they did. On the other hand if the adoptee displays emotional problems, people are quick to blame it on inferior genes, the emotional impact of adoption itself is rarely taken into consideration. I believe there IS a stigma attached to adoption. The adoptee is a mysterious person, without a past and for some is perceived as a potential threat. The unspoken perception can be very powerful - "Well, you know he/she was adopted". As a child, did you ever bring home a stray cat or dog and have your mother refuse to let you keep it? "You don't know WHERE it came from!!!" Hence it is potentially harmful> People seem to have a NEED to know where something or someONE came from and this is true in most cultures. Historically we value, even revere ancestry and those who have no roots are often seen as a threat. The American way of adoption is unnatural. On some level people know that and in spite of their best attempts they will react on a gut level with distrust and unease. Pat

Well, you hit any point I was trying to make dead on. Great post.

In article <c599139c.0312160304.35261eab@posting.google.com>, Dian says...Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<rVjDb.36512$cJ5.5442@www.newsranger.com>... In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says...palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>...> >It's the bad blood argument.> >> >Di> >> >> >>> Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a> mindset, an assumption.>> I love busting those assumptions.>>>>> P2PGood on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an endto such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed whenit came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that itwasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' whodesigned the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps.It was those who judged them.Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Deary me - Godwin alert ;) Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're referring to?My son's half German too. But you've missed the point. That pointbeing that most if not all crimes against humanity have beenperpetrated by men in positions of power, and not by the pooruneducated or feeble minded.

Di, I got your "point". I was making a joke.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

aspensky@knology.net (Debbie) wrote in message news:<4b23522a.0312160554.21446aa2@posting.google.com>... patsegatto@sbcglobal.net (Pat) wrote in message news:<412a0546.0312150247.149420b4@posting.google.com>... Yes, exactly like they are looking for flaws. :( It was funny in an odd way, these ladies meant absolutely nothing wrong by what they said and like I said not something I wanted to jump on, just made for a weird experience. Kind of the, "I bet her parents couldn't love her more if she was their own." Personally I think that Society's attitude toward adoption is rarely acknowledged. Outwardly the world praises adoption as a perfect solution for "unwanted" children and barren couples, but I have noticed more a sense of discomfort toward the adoptee, kind of like "you never know what you'll get or where it came from". If the adoptee turns out to be a successful, well-balanced individual, then the aparents are considered fortunate and often get the credit for the great job they did. On the other hand if the adoptee displays emotional problems, people are quick to blame it on inferior genes, the emotional impact of adoption itself is rarely taken into consideration. I believe there IS a stigma attached to adoption. The adoptee is a mysterious person, without a past and for some is perceived as a potential threat. The unspoken perception can be very powerful - "Well, you know he/she was adopted". As a child, did you ever bring home a stray cat or dog and have your mother refuse to let you keep it? "You don't know WHERE it came from!!!" Hence it is potentially harmful> People seem to have a NEED to know where something or someONE came from and this is true in most cultures. Historically we value, even revere ancestry and those who have no roots are often seen as a threat. The American way of adoption is unnatural. On some level people know that and in spite of their best attempts they will react on a gut level with distrust and unease. Pat Well, you hit any point I was trying to make dead on. Great post.



Yup.
I never made any points, but I think it's a great post!


Rh.

"Jason Gorringe" <jasongorringe@XXXXhotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fdf0602$0$11178$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>... "Dian" <patrice68@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message news:c599139c.0312160304.35261eab@posting.google.c om... Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<rVjDb.36512$cJ5.5442@www.newsranger.com>... In article <c599139c.0312150612.a26e76@posting.google.com>, Dian says... > >palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20031214133237.29517.00000162@mb-m02.aol.com>... >> >It's the bad blood argument. >> > >> >Di >> > >> > >> > >> >> Precisely, Di. And it goes beyond an argument for some people and becomes a >> mindset, an assumption. >> >> I love busting those assumptions. >> >> >> >> >> P2P > > >Good on you. The exposure of the Holocaust was supposed to put an end >to such eugenics based bigotry and stigma, but obviously failed when >it came to adoption. IMO the best comeback is to remind them that it >wasn't the 'bad blooded genetically inferior feebleminded' who >designed the Nazi sterilization laws and introduced the Death Camps. >It was those who judged them. >Which begs the question of who really possessed that nasty bad blood. Deary me - Godwin alert ;) Hey, my bmom's half-German - Is this "that nasty bad blood" you're referring to? My son's half German too. But you've missed the point. That point being that most if not all crimes against humanity have been perpetrated by men in positions of power, and not by the poor uneducated or feeble minded. Di Well done, you win this weeks POINT OUT THE BLEEDING OBVIOUS award. The poor uneducated and feeble minded are incapable of commiting crimes against humanity, which, by their very nature, require someone in a position of power. Jason

And you win this weeks POINT OUT THE BLEEDING MISSED POINT award. That
point being that eugenicists et al judged the poor uneducated and
feeble minded as being the social deviants who possessed bad genes aka
bad blood. When in light of the facts, the 'bad' blood actually
belonged to those who judged them... the eugenicists themselves. Which
is why they suddenly switched theories in mid stream and began blaming
environment for the good or bad in people post WW2. A point obviously
lost on you.