MY mother in law wrote a letter to michigan FOC reguarding grandparent rights. She was told we need to obtain a lawyer to pursue visitation rights. Mother in law has no money NONE So now what do we do? She is missing her grandson grow up please help (MICHIGAN)

Who is she petitioning grandparents rights for? It doesn't sound like it's your kids. What is the situation? Where are the children's parents (married, divorced, deceased?) and why are they not allowing her to see her grandchildren? Depending on this information she may or may not have a case.

Grandmother wants visitation with grandson witch is her youngest sons child. Dad does not care about anything he has court ordered visitaion every wend and every other week end and will not pursue anything. He has a bench warrent out because he is 3000 behind in support. Bio mother will not let us see the child so we were told we need a lawyer. We have not seen the child sience oct 04.

For your info the only reason dad does not want anything to do with his son is because he is 3000 behind in support and he is scared to go to jail, and the only reason mom won't bring grandson to the home is because dad is never there and dad is a druggie, so I don't really blame mom because I wouldn't want my child around that either but mom shouldn't punish nana and the people that love that child.

Grandmother wants visitation with grandson witch is her youngest sons child. Dad does not care about anything he has court ordered visitaion every wend and every other week end and will not pursue anything. He has a bench warrent out because he is 3000 behind in support. Bio mother will not let us see the child so we were told we need a lawyer. We have not seen the child sience oct 04.


From what I know, grandparents rights can be enforced if the grandparents are being denied the opportunity to see the child and don't have any opportunities from thier own child. For example, if thier son was deceased, or in jail or something like that so that they are unable to see thier grandkids through thier son, then they have some rights to obtain visitation. However, since thier son has visitation, is alive, is not in jail, it is his responsibility to involve his parents in his child's life if he wishes to do so. Therefore, to try and fight for grandparents rights, they'd really need a good attorney and even then I don't know the chances.

Well nana contacted an attorney yesterday April 5 and they will go from there. Hopefully this will not take a long drawn out process. Does any one have an idea of what may happen. Do you think she might only get surpervised visits? Or maybe a weekend a month if everything goes good? Thank you everyone

Well nana contacted an attorney yesterday April 5 and they will go from there. Hopefully this will not take a long drawn out process. Does any one have an idea of what may happen. Do you think she might only get surpervised visits? Or maybe a weekend a month if everything goes good? Thank you everyone

I think the judge (if this goes that far) will hear the case and then dismiss it. The father does have visitation rights. He chooses not to take advantage of them, therefore he is saying that he doesn't care for his family to see the child either. The judge may not be real happy with the grandparents suing for visitation that they already have via dad, and may order them to pay the child's mother's attorney fees, if she has one. It's not right that she should have to pay out money for an attorney, especially when she can obviously use it for her children, seeing as how dad doesn't pay his support. I can promise, that if this keeps going, the mother will probably NEVER let anybody from your family see her children. And, as mean as it sounds, I can't say that I would blame her. This situation is the dad's fault, not hers. She is NOT responsible for his actions or inactions. Tell the dad to grow up, pay his support, and be a part of his kids' lives. If he doesn't, he has essentially said that he doesn't want his family around his kids. Ain't no court going to overrule both parents saying "NO".

That is true everything you had said. Dad is straight up dead beat in this case. Mom does not like anyone from dad's side of the family therefore she refuses to bring the grandson around, because dad is never there even when they were getting visitation. I have even told dad give me the money and I will go pay it for you he refuses. All he has to do is write a letter in writing that mom is not following visitation and then the lady at FOC said it would go to court from there. I offered to take him NOPE that's to much for him to handle. So nana is going to do her best to do what she can to fight for her grandson is all she can do. She loves him to death, but she can not controll her sons actions it's just to bad it had to be this way.

That is true everything you had said. Dad is straight up dead beat in this case. Mom does not like anyone from dad's side of the family therefore she refuses to bring the grandson around, because dad is never there even when they were getting visitation. I have even told dad give me the money and I will go pay it for you he refuses. All he has to do is write a letter in writing that mom is not following visitation and then the lady at FOC said it would go to court from there. I offered to take him NOPE that's to much for him to handle. So nana is going to do her best to do what she can to fight for her grandson is all she can do. She loves him to death, but she can not controll her sons actions it's just to bad it had to be this way.

I agree w/ Mommyof4, and like I said, the grandparents rights will most likely only hold any weight if the father was dead or incarcerated. The fact is, he has visitation rights and it is his responsibility to involve the grandparents AT HIS WILL. The place to start in this situation is with the father of the child. He needs to be rehabilitated so that he is more responsible and involved with his child. If this isn't taken care of, I don't think the grandmother has any chance of getting grandparents rights. SHE needs to help her SON - which will open the opportunity to start seeing her grandchild again.

Thank you everyone for you reply, Mom has tried to help son numerous time but he is 22 years old and she is tired of helping him because he does not want to change. He was supposed to go to counsling never did he refused to get a job that's why mom kicked him out jan 06 because she is tired of paying for things for him.

Thank you everyone for you reply, Mom has tried to help son numerous time but he is 22 years old and she is tired of helping him because he does not want to change. He was supposed to go to counsling never did he refused to get a job that's why mom kicked him out jan 06 because she is tired of paying for things for him.

Is he dating Barbie???? Hehehehe

LOL That was a good one!!!!!! :) :D

well first of all I think CS is a load of sh*t for the most part, if you can't afford the child - you don't need to have it, most especially if there is another willing parent that can afford the child and is willing to love the child.
My mother took me away from my bio dad and told me he was dead when I was a very small child. I found out he was alive when I was 17. I don't everything that happened but I remember being a daddy's girl even as a young child, and I never had the opportunity to know him because my mother is a control freak.
Second my husband is ordered to pay cs to his own mother because she did some legally manuevers and "stole" his child unfairly from him. This child is a daddy's boy and hates being away from us.
So yes I think men need to have more rights, they claim gender equality out there, but I don't see it. Women take control and men are lucky if they don't get run over.

Yeah, you're right and if you read any of the posts on the other thread, you will see where CAdad and I were discussing that very problem. Unfortunately for humans, there's not a segment of society that in some way is not gender biased. Work, housework, sports, schools, oh, I know, how about the basic process of childbirth??? If life were fair, men would get the joy of birth, too. Butno, they just get the fun.

The trick is to have the hope and drive to change it and realize that it won't happen with one stupid lawsuit over something the plaintiff is 50% responsible for. If anything, stunts like this will outrage alot of people, biased or not, and put any workable soution that much further out of reach.

You know my fiance made a mistake and had a one night stand just before we got back together again and it result in pregnancy, but you know what I forgave him and excepted that child even though I do not like the mother. And have delt with the cs issues and the child support every month. And as well we have a child together. It has been difficult at first but like I said the child should not be punished he did not get to choode who his parents were. You live and learn only once.

yes love is much more important than money especially to a child. I remember appreciating more the little things that brought my brother, sister and I together, rather than the money that was spend on us. In fact I think the poorer years were a better experience for us in the long run because it brought us together as a family. Parents that are together don't neccessarily spend that kind of money on there kids, why should you have to pay just because you are split up and let someone else enjoy the memories. You should pay for the kid while they are with you period. The ncp still needs a room, bed, for the child, still needs a car the child can ride in. CS makes no sense to me at all.

yes love is much more important than money especially to a child. I remember appreciating more the little things that brought my brother, sister and I together, rather than the money that was spend on us. In fact I think the poorer years were a better experience for us in the long run because it brought us together as a family. Parents that are together don't neccessarily spend that kind of money on there kids, why should you have to pay just because you are split up and let someone else enjoy the memories. You should pay for the kid while they are with you period. The ncp still needs a room, bed, for the child, still needs a car the child can ride in. CS makes no sense to me at all.

Child support is very important for a number of reasons. The idea is that the child should have the same lifestyle opportunities as if the parents were still together. That's why they take both incomes and combine them to come up with a child support amount. Then that amount is split between the two parents as a percentage based on what percentage of the combined income they have. The thing people don't like is that the ncp has to pay to the cp. The cp owes child support too, its just paid to themselves as the cp.

The flaw with paying for a kid when they are with you is that the child may not get the same opportunities that way. For example, my husband's ex wife can not keep a job. She has the kids the majority of the time. So why should those kids live in poverty when they are with her and then in luxury when they are with us, which is only on weekends? My husband pays a good chunk of child support so that they have a better lifestyle all the time, as if thier mom and dad were still both providing for them together. People don't understand child support when it doesn't suite them. If our situation was reversed and my husbands ex wife married wealthy and we were poor, it would feel unfair to be paying child support to them, but it would still represent his portion of his support which would be very important to him to feel that he has a part in thier life and is fullfilling his obligation to them as thier father. There are various situations, but all in all, the child support is as fair as possible for the child.

yes love is much more important than money especially to a child. I remember appreciating more the little things that brought my brother, sister and I together, rather than the money that was spend on us. In fact I think the poorer years were a better experience for us in the long run because it brought us together as a family. Parents that are together don't neccessarily spend that kind of money on there kids, why should you have to pay just because you are split up and let someone else enjoy the memories. You should pay for the kid while they are with you period. The ncp still needs a room, bed, for the child, still needs a car the child can ride in. CS makes no sense to me at all.

Well, no, in this case the father does not need those things,as it has been repeatedly stated that he wants nothing to do with the child. He can pay his support and go on his merry way.

The fact is that there are consequences to a person's actions. Just like if you tell a two year old not to hit, but he does, therefore, he goes to timeout. For all of you who say, well, he doesn't want her, it was an accident, it's not fair.... You explain to me what is fair about a child possibly going hungry, no place to live, no heat, no clothes, no shoes, because the ncp, whether he or she wanted a child or just wanted to get his or her jollies, decides, whoops, that little spermy wasn't suppose to go there!!! Since I didn't MEAN to knock her up, I just won't help support the baby. Or, whoops, I didn't want that egg to be released yer, and I didn't MEAN to get knocked up, so I just won't help support the baby. Give me a break. It seems that we have a lot of people that believe they have no responsibility for any situation they create. A nation of 2 year olds.

And,yes, I am aware how low his cs obligation is, right now. But as soon as he is out of school, he WILL be required to adequately contribute to the support of his child. I can hear them wailing, now. And of course love is important, but you can't live on love. And did anyone consider that if these two did not sleep together, when they weren't willing to support and love each other and any baby that might come out of the fun, then cs wouldn't be an issue. Barbie said this girl was easy. Well, what does that make him? I'm pretty sure he wasn't "ravished" against his will.

If you have the priviledge of having that child with you, you should have the priviledge of supporting it. CS should be for very rare circumstances where it is neccessary to keep a roof over the child's head and food in the mouth. CS should not be about lifestyle. CS is just a way adults get back at other adults. People think "I'm going to take your kid and make you pay for it too." Not only does the NCP get denied all the experiences they would like to have with the child, but they have less money to spend on the child when they have the child. The system is unfair. My husband is ordered to pay support to grandma and the biological mother is not because she doesn't have a job. If the system were equal they would force her to get a job (just like they would do to a man). Course if the system were fair and in the best interests of the child, the child would be with my husband in the first damn place. And I tell you we would want nothing to do with CS from somoene else.

In Barbie's case is her man is set about not having a relationship with that child, forcing him is even worse than him not wanting it in the first place. I think if I were that child what I would want. I wouldn't want to be around be that don't want me. I would want to be around people that love me. If the child has a good home and is loved what does it matter who the biological parents are if they don't want to be part. Its wrong that he doesn't want the relationship, but its even worse to force him to. Yes it would hurt biological dad doesn't want me, but it would be worse to be exposed to that all the time by being around him.

I disagree with you still. You are not looking at it with the correct perspective.

why should child support be for only the case of needing to keep a roof over the child's head? I agree that adults try to use cs as a way of getting back at each other, but the basic guidelines of child support do not change - people who use it for "getting back at someone" are using something that already exists, that they can't change because of thier vendeta anyway. They can be angry and pay/collect child support, or they can be civil and pay/collect child support. The law doesn't cater to the cattyness of the adults, some adults just THINK that is what they are doing. If someone collects child support as a way to get back at someone, it isn't thiers to barter with. It's money that belongs to the child, paid to the parent for the support of the child. They can think they are using it as a weapon, but they aren't. In fact if a parent doesn't collect child support, they are really doign their child a disservice by not utilizing the resources they (the child) are entitled to for thier support.

Why should a non-custodial parent be relieved of child support simply because the custodial parent is responsbile and providing everything for that child? That is ridiculous. That statement your making is saying that if the custodial parent can afford to take care of the kid, why should the non-custodial parent have any financial responsibility. Maybe that line of thinking will work if I go to my home loan lender and say that because they don't need my money to get richer, I think they should forgive my loan and leave me alone. A child is a financial responsibility.

It really makes me angry when a non-custodial parent says they should only have to pay child support if the custodial parent can't provide for the child and needs help. So that means that if the custodial parent can provide by being responsible and getting a job, or other means of income, then the non-custodial parent is relieved of thier responsibility - due to the custodial parent's capability. But if the custodial parent is irresponsible and lazy and can't provide, then they claim child support is necessary and justified? That is not the proper perspective. That is the perspective of someone who simply doesn't want to live up to thier financial obligation of child support. It doesn't matter how much money the custodial parent has or what they do or don't provide for the child, BOTH parents have an obligation, BOTH parents need to fulfill that obligation no matter what the amount is. If a non-custodial parent is only ordered to pay $20 a month, as long as they pay it, they are fulfilling thier obligation.

well first of all let me say in my situation, I got into it when I 20, my husband was the PCP(and he wansn't collecting any CS). Its not even the biological mother that is the problem. She is lazy and good for pretty much nothing. She knows grandma has the better lawyer and sides with her because it is easier for her to do so. I love the fact my husband loves his son so much, in fact it is one of the reasons I married him. What I did not expect my husband to have an evil mother that does nothing but make his life as miserable as possible just because we can. I love my stepson like my own child. I treat him as I wish my stepdad did for me. So, the ex and the child I am fine with. It is the mother in law I am not. She says the most despicable lies about the three of us (my husband, my stepson, and I) just to get her way. She is making him paying CS only to make him angry. She makes just as much money(if not more) as my husband and has lots of money on top of it. She admitted in court she didn't need the CS. Hell parents are supposed to help they children, not steal their grandkids and take their children's money. She has no just cause. She is evil. I am afraid if my husband and I have our own kids she will try to take them too. Just because she can and she likes making us miserable.
As for Barbie I think yes she should think twice about being with a man that has a previous child while she still can. But if she agrees to stay with him, she should support his decision whatever it may be or however ludricious it may sound. It is his responsibilty and as his other half hers to be supportive.

well first of all let me say in my situation, I got into it when I 20, my husband was the PCP(and he wansn't collecting any CS). Its not even the biological mother that is the problem. She is lazy and good for pretty much nothing. She knows grandma has the better lawyer and sides with her because it is easier for her to do so. I love the fact my husband loves his son so much, in fact it is one of the reasons I married him. What I did not expect my husband to have an evil mother that does nothing but make his life as miserable as possible just because we can. I love my stepson like my own child. I treat him as I wish my stepdad did for me. So, the ex and the child I am fine with. It is the mother in law I am not. She says the most despicable lies about the three of us (my husband, my stepson, and I) just to get her way. She is making him paying CS only to make him angry. She makes just as much money(if not more) as my husband and has lots of money on top of it. She admitted in court she didn't need the CS. Hell parents are supposed to help they children, not steal their grandkids and take their children's money. She has no just cause. She is evil. I am afraid if my husband and I have our own kids she will try to take them too. Just because she can and she likes making us miserable.
As for Barbie I think yes she should think twice about being with a man that has a previous child while she still can. But if she agrees to stay with him, she should support his decision whatever it may be or however ludricious it may sound. It is his responsibilty and as his other half hers to be supportive.

Does the grandmother have custody of the child?

I appreciate everyone's opinion, but CS is still unfair. It is abused much more often than it is used properly. It is used as a bargaining chip in custody issues, which tell me the primary parent doesn't really need it.

If I had a child and was not with the father any more, I would not want his damn money. I work hard to support myself and would continue to do so for a child. Now if the parents want to be adult and willing split some activity or medical expenses fine. But just to give the pcp all the money and power is wrong. The problem is most people don't like adults in these situations and are all about revenge, not what is right.

And speaking of what is right why is there not a law in TX that says Grandparents can only have custody if there is a severe problem(ie drugs, abuse) or the parent willing gives possession. Being denied loving parents is wrong for the child and wrong for the parents.

Thank you all for letting me express my opinion.

That is exactly the way I have been feeling. We feel so frustrated and helpless. The lawyers all say wait to the child is 12 where he has more of a say of where he wants to be. The judge wouldn't even talk to him AT ALL last time when he was now. He wanted to. Well what about all those YEARS he is away from his father. Quite often the 3 of us will start crying when he has to leave on sunday evenings. Now Grandma is taking us back to court (and making up some new lies) to try to terminate my husband's rights. I know what she is doing. She knows at age 12 she is going to lose, so she's pulling her checkmate now before she can lose. Its like she decides what she wants to do and makes up a lie for it. My point is first of all there is no iota of truth to what she says. She decides what she wants to do and then makes a lie up to accomplish it. We have proven she lies in court. It didn't matter. The judge said nothing changed so we don't move the child(but yet we can order CS). There is nothing wrong with our home. No reason for my husband to not have his son. If grandma thought these lies of hers were true she would call CPS. But she doesn't because she knows CPS would discover she is lying. I hate this situation so much.

Is anyone starting to think Barbie is probably a 17 year old girl who is in a high school class with her little friends who found this website and gets a kick out of getting people riled up?

I can't imagine she isreally as dumb as she sounds. I just won't believe it. And I don't think this "boyfriend" even exists.

And if for some reason this is a true synopsis of her "story" she will have a BIG rude awakening pretty soon. Hell, can you give me the town you live in because I really want to come to his next court date, if there is one, and laugh my *** off.

If anyone else wants to come, I'll pay for your flight!!!

Flight on Delta $300.00
Hotel and food $500.00
The look on "Barbie's" face when she hears what the judge's ruling....priceless!!!

I'd love to be there too. But the chances of Barbie actually getting to STAY in the courtroom are slim to none. We could still all go and watch her escourted out in handcuffs after she smarts off to the judge, though. That is if she even gets the chance to open her mouth at all. Hopefully the mom will demand she be removed before it ever gets that far! My SO is a commercial airline pilot. I'm pretty sure I could get a really good deal on airfare.

What's a professionaly?

Lol...is she not being ignored yet> good grief...she is like a leach trying to drain people. :cool:

Lol...is she not being ignored yet> good grief...she is like a leach trying to drain people. :cool:

Are you coming with everyone to watch her get hauled out of the courtroom in handcuffs at her bf's next hearing? I should be fun! Maybe then she will get the REAL professional help she needs for the numerous personality and psychological disorders she has! :cool:

Are you coming with everyone to watch her get hauled out of the courtroom in handcuffs at her bf's next hearing? I should be fun! Maybe then she will get the REAL professional help she needs for the numerous personality and psychological disorders she has! :cool:

I know she is a young one who has no clue what life has in store for dear old 22 yr old bf. For the next 18 years he'll be paying the state back for all the assistance the bio mom received.

It's sad when the courts will keep a child away from parents that want to love it and force the ones who don't to remain so close.
no system can ever be completely fair, but the system we have now fails miserably at fairness.....just watch the news CPS is great at leaving kids at parents that kill them and taking away children with good parents. I heard this morning that lady that cut off her kids arms, got off on the insanity plee. The system has no idea what is wrong or right. And, Barbie, if you stay with BF make sure that is what you really want before its too late. You will always have to deal with the child(and the complications from the child) if you stay with him. Chances of this being a one time problem are slim.

no system can ever be completely fair, but the system we have now fails miserably at fairness.....just watch the news CPS is great at leaving kids at parents that kill them and taking away children with good parents. I heard this morning that lady that cut off her kids arms, got off on the insanity plee. The system has no idea what is wrong or right. And, Barbie, if you stay with BF make sure that is what you really want before its too late. You will always have to deal with the child(and the complications from the child) if you stay with him. Chances of this being a one time problem are slim.

Please read the whole thread before commenting. The child and bio father have no contact. He is being dealt with by the state.
there isn't any visitation and that's due to the father not wanting to be in the child's life. The only issue the op has is her boyfriend has to pay the STATE a measly 12 dollars a week.

Please read the whole thread before commenting. The child and bio father have no contact. He is being dealt with by the state.
there isn't any visitation and that's due to the father not wanting to be in the child's life. The only issue the op has is her boyfriend has to pay the STATE a measly 12 dollars a week.


And as I have stated early CS is a bunch of bullsh*t

And as I have stated early CS is a bunch of bullsh*t

To you it is...you're on the getting in the *** stick! :eek:

I do not see the justice in CS. I know most all of you disagree with me, but with my background there is no way I can see CS is right. Mothers steal children away from fathers and then steal their money because all they care about is revenge. Fathers get the short end of the stick, no matter how you look at.

[QUOTE=mommyof4]Does the grandmother have custody of the child?[/QUOTE


You dont know me plus you dont know anything that went on and im not going to say b/c its not your buiz...so mommy of 4 i think you neeed your own help!

Inlove what are you talking about?

Inlove what are you talking about?

I don't know what her comment is about, by she's a 15 YO that is IN LOOOOOVE with her 19 YO bf and her parents are concerned about the relationship. But they just don't understand because she's IN LOOOOOVE with him. :rolleyes: We'll see how far that love gets her when she's knocked up and he's in jail.

There are more consequences than you can imagine. I never in my darkest nightmares dreamed things could go so horribly wrong. If I had known seven years ago what I know now, I would run(not walk) from a man with a kid. I can handle myself financially and emotionally, but dealing with all these crap because people are not grown up enough to act like adults, and they only care about revenge. It is sad that virtually no one lives by the golden rule any more, "treat others as you would treat yourself." Standing by as a good wife, while my husband (and my) name is dragged through the mud, having to be the positive one one when he is depressed and stressed about the situation. Each day I have to tell myself to only think of today because I am worried all this extra stress is either going to kill my husband with a heart attack, or those 2 crazy women are going to find a way to lock my husband up in jail with there BS lies. Its just a lot of added stress in my life that could have easily been avoided. You don't know where your BF situation will go, do you really want to be there no matter what the consequence?

To be honest I have done a lot of thinking on that. I wouldn't trade him now for less stress. But before I fell in love, yes I probably would have, if I had known. I love my husband. He is my best friend. I just didn't expect all this craziness. I'm tired of having to pull lawyer money out of nowhere. I'm tired of hearing my mother in law say we are child abusers. I'm tired of going to pick up the child, to find out they are hiding him someone on our visitation time, wondering if they ran off to mexico or are just being bastards. I am tired about her making our lives complete hell. I want to have my own kids, but I agreed with my husband to wait to all this craziness was settled, and it will never be settled. I believe God put me in this situation because I can handle it, but I would wish this on any one. I can see why your BF doesn't want anything to do with this child. He doesn't want some crazy woman trying to ruin his life at every turn. Perhaps that is why I am more understanding than the others on this forem.

Yet you think it is perfectly acceptable for barbies boyfriend to completely sever all ties to HIS CHILD. A totally innocent CHILD that did not ask to be born to such a selfish person. Or do you just wish people would be nicer to YOU?

You misunderstand me. I don't think its perfectly acceptable, I can understand why he wants to do it though. I have the same opinion on abortion, I don't think it acceptable, but I understand why people would want to do it. I personally could never do either of these things, but I try to see things from others perspectives, and if the intention are good that is the important thing. I don't think Barbie BF has bad intentions. I think he is trying to save the child pain. My mother took me away from my dad, and he never fought because he didn't have the money or the will. Do you know who I am close to now? My dad because I understand what he was up against and why he didn't fight. I don't hold any grudge at him for not fighting.

If he tried to terminate his rights, he WOULD be a terrible father that abandoned his child!


He doesn't want to terminate his rights. He wants primary custody. He is not seeking revenge. The child is a daddy's boy. We want him with us. He wants to be with us. Grandma and Bio mom hate my husband because THEY CAN NOT CONTROL HIM. They want to terminate his rights because they want all the control. Do you think it is fair to the child to always have his life up in the air because they are always taking this court and trying to take more and more away from my husband because they think they can? Its sickening what has happened in my husband's case.

If he tried to terminate his rights, he WOULD be a terrible father that abandoned his child!


He will never give up. We will fight this decision to our last dime and last breath. Hopefully the Truth will come through eventually. And the judicial system will stop protecting itself and protect the child.

What people don't realize is how much "life force" (for lack of a better word) all this trying to do right takes when you are up against vindicative, malicious, vengeful people. I know this situation has taken years off my husbands life. And people wonder why it is also men having the heart attacks? My dad didn't fight for me and I am glad he didn't sometimes, because if he did he may not still be alive now. At least now I have the opportunity to have a real relationship with him. When I left my mother at 18, I left my 10 yr brother and 8 year old sister behind. It destroyed me inside to leave them. I tried calling CPS on my mother and my husband's mother, but CPS doesn't care about mental abuse.

I have to get back to work....finish this later.

I think there is a distinct line between Barbie's situation and that of Krystal's. The two are drastically different.

Krystals' situation involves a man, her husband, who does love his child and wants to be part of their life, but for the mom and grandmom making it miserable to do so.

Barbie just has a selfish boyfriend, not even married, who wants nothing to do with facing the consequences of his actions and is so low down and ignorant he won't even make an attempt to be a man.

You really cannot compare these two cases, they are night and day.

Krystal you make some good points. Men are held to a MUCH higher standard than women and for some, CS is a joke. But that is not all. You can't possibly agree with Barbie. SHe is an immature idiot who has insulted and provoked people the whole time she has been on this website.

She isn't even married and her bf has never ever made an attempt to be a man, even if that means getting screwed. Hey next time I guess he won't bang the first chick he sees sitting at the bar.

I can sympathize with your situation, I have a few clients in the same boat. They fathered children with the worst of them. Your right they are miserable and they want you to be miserable too but all he can do is do everything through court and keep your heads held high.

barbie, you should keep your face covered.

[QUOTE=mommyof4]Does the grandmother have custody of the child?[/QUOTE


You dont know me plus you dont know anything that went on and im not going to say b/c its not your buiz...so mommy of 4 i think you neeed your own help!
WTH are you talking about? That quote had nothing to do with you, jailbait. Grow up and while you're at it, why don't you show your mommy what you ask people on this forum. :)

It is EXACTLY the same thing. If the all of the child support are done away with, which is what YOU have said is the whole point that you & barbie AGREE on, then people like barbie's boyfriend free to treat children as if they are disposible. It would create a system where any NCP that did not want a child to begin with or just gets tired of being a parent all together is allowed to walk away, consequence free.

Why should a NCP not be held to the SAME standard as a CP? If I decide tomorrow to stop feeding my children because I don't have the extra money to spend or I just want to spend MY money on MYSELF, instead of these children, I go to JAIL! Which is the way it should be. But using YOUR logic, it would be perfectly acceptable.

My children that have another biological parent that is alive and well, and perfectly capable to financially care for them completely on what HE earns without any monetary assistance from ME. He doesn't WANT to though. Fortunately, I can afford to raise them alone without help from any other source, which is a very rare thing in today's society. Even in intact families, it usually requires TWO incomes to take care of the family.

There is NOTHING that my children need that they have to go without. I provide far above and beyond their "basic needs". They are involved in sports, drama, dancing, ect., all paid for by ME. I travel quite often with my children. Since the divorce, I have taken the children to England, Ireland, France and most of the 50 states, including several 9+ day trips to Disneyworld. All on MY money.

Their sperm-donor has chosen to turn his back and walk away. He is well over 6-figures BEHIND support because he doesn't WANT to pay. I don't enforce the order because I would rather spend my time, money and energy on raising my children. I can change my mind at any time though and take him back to court to raise the current CS amount and force him to pay the arrears or go to jail.

WHEN (yes, when) I do take him back to court, I'm free to spend the money I collect on anything I damn well please. I can take the $100K+ and spend it all on shoes and purses for ME and it would be perfectly acceptable. I can wait until the children are almost 18 years old, take him back to court and use the money to retire, while HE is forced to work his *** off until the day he dies in order to pay child support for 2 children that are grown adults and son't actually see a penny of the money being paid.

It is perfectly acceptable for me to do this because the child support arrears represents money that I have already SPENT raising the children. Basically, I fronted HIM the money for HIS part of the children's expenses and he would only be paying me back for the money I "loaned" him.

Since you feel the child support system should be done away with, how do YOU propose people that CHOSE to walk away from their children should be dealt with? Should I only feed the children every other day? Only buy them clothes every other year? Take them to the doctor every other time they get sick? Make them sleep in the car every other night? Do you think that would make their father wake up and realize that he should be helping out VOLUNTARILY?

I can tell you right now it WON'T happen. If he won't contribute his fair share when he is COURT ORDERED to do so, he sure as hell isn't going to do it out of the kindness of his heart (of which, I seriously doubt he even has).

In the 7 YEARS since I filed for divorce, he has asked about the children a grand total of ZERO times. I saw him in court at LEAST 50 times and I have run into him in public many times. All of these times the ONLY thing he has EVER had to say to me was how I have ruined his credit. His credit is completely trashed because HE choses not to pay HIS court ordered child support. He has f*cked it up so far beyond repair by HIS OWN DOING, that he couldn't get a loan from Guido the loanshark to by a pack of gum! Yet in HIS eyes and those of every girlfriend he has ever had, this is somehow MY fault. All because I have the POWER to fix it by "forgiving" the arrears and erasing them from his credit report (which will happen on the same day horses fly through the frozen landscape of HELL).

So, again I ask YOU, how should people like this be dealt with absent the current child support system?

tell em why you're mad Ceara, tell em why you're mad :cool:
Amen

tell em why you're mad Ceara, tell em why you're mad :cool:
Amen

I am just SOOOOO fed up with all of these people (usually NCP's, their girlfriends or their new wives, but not always) complaining about how UNFAIR the system is! Everybody has a right to their own opinion, but unless they are willing and able to suggest a VIABLE alternative, they need to shut the F up! I say the same thing to people that want to gripe about how the government runs the country, but they don't go out and vote!

I am an equal opportunity critic!

well first of all I think CS is a load of sh*t for the most part, if you can't afford the child - you don't need to have it, most especially if there is another willing parent that can afford the child and is willing to love the child.
My mother took me away from my bio dad and told me he was dead when I was a very small child. I found out he was alive when I was 17. I don't everything that happened but I remember being a daddy's girl even as a young child, and I never had the opportunity to know him because my mother is a control freak.
Second my husband is ordered to pay cs to his own mother because she did some legally manuevers and "stole" his child unfairly from him. This child is a daddy's boy and hates being away from us.
So yes I think men need to have more rights, they claim gender equality out there, but I don't see it. Women take control and men are lucky if they don't get run over.


Child support is a complicated issue, and not every situation is the same. My ex husband pays me child support for our daughter, he doesn't like it, but he does it. He chooses not to see her. He hasn't even so much as called her in the past four, almost 5 years. We lived 3 blocks away from him and his girlfriend, and he never bothered at all. So I think that he does deserve to pay and give her the life that she would have had if we were still together with 2 incomes. But he made his choice...he picked to have his girlfriend and beer over his wife and children.
BTW, I put all of my child support into a seperate savings account, and when she needs shoes, or clothes, I use that money for those things, and the rest just sits in the account to put towards college in the future.

Abortion does NOT make a child disposable. Abortion prevents the child from ever exsisting. Fathers do have the same rights NOT to have a child. As I've said before, if a man doesn't want a child, he can get a vasectomy or keep it in his pants! If he CHOSES not to do this, he can and WILL be held responsible for any child born as a result of his actions.

Since you don't seem to be getting this in any way, shape or form, I'll explain it to you in a different way.

You can drive around behind the wheel of a car (have sex) your entire life without paying for auto insurance (safe sex) and never get into an accident (pregnant). But, you can also go out for a drive (have sex) tomorrow and accidentally swerve into another lane and cause an accident (unplanned pregnancy). Just because you chose not to have insurance (safe sex), it doesn't make you any less responsible for paying for the damages YOU caused (child support). The other driver MAY say, "no problem, I don't like this car anyway and I was planning on getting something else, don't worry about it" (abortion). Then you're off the hook. But it is the other driver that has to let you off the hook. You can't get out of paying for damages (child support) by using the excuse "If you didn't want ME to run into your car, YOU shouldn't have been out driving it on the road".

In other words, YOUR boyfriend has caused an accident and he is going to have to pay for the damages. He can't get out of it. If he tries to avoid paying, a COURT will force him to pay. There is NOTHING that you or anyone else can do or say that will change things.

At this point, none of these posters will admit that they KNOW that this is the reality of life. They have been told this over and over. Now, it just seems that they are simply refusing to admit that they were wrong, solely for the sake of appearing to keep their argument valid.

I can promise that if one of them gets themselves (after all, the potential father has no responsibility, right???) into a situation where child support is warranted, they will be the first in line to string him up by his bank account. Then, they will have the unending JOY of dealing with the next girfriend that whines, "It's not faaaaiir! My poor baby has to pay support for HER mistake. Why didn't she just have an abortion?" Oh, puke. Ladies, get over yourselves. You are not the first gf to complain, you won't be the last.

Just a suggestion: if you truly do not want children, please have your tubes tied NOW to prevent any "accidents" in the future. It is obvious that your "man' didn't ensure that he would not have a child, so start taking 100% responsibility now.

It is EXACTLY the same thing. If the all of the child support are done away with, which is what YOU have said is the whole point that you & barbie AGREE on, then people like barbie's boyfriend free to treat children as if they are disposible. It would create a system where any NCP that did not want a child to begin with or just gets tired of being a parent all together is allowed to walk away, consequence free.

Why should a NCP not be held to the SAME standard as a CP? If I decide tomorrow to stop feeding my children because I don't have the extra money to spend or I just want to spend MY money on MYSELF, instead of these children, I go to JAIL! Which is the way it should be. But using YOUR logic, it would be perfectly acceptable.

My children that have another biological parent that is alive and well, and perfectly capable to financially care for them completely on what HE earns without any monetary assistance from ME. He doesn't WANT to though. Fortunately, I can afford to raise them alone without help from any other source, which is a very rare thing in today's society. Even in intact families, it usually requires TWO incomes to take care of the family.

There is NOTHING that my children need that they have to go without. I provide far above and beyond their "basic needs". They are involved in sports, drama, dancing, ect., all paid for by ME. I travel quite often with my children. Since the divorce, I have taken the children to England, Ireland, France and most of the 50 states, including several 9+ day trips to Disneyworld. All on MY money.

Their sperm-donor has chosen to turn his back and walk away. He is well over 6-figures BEHIND support because he doesn't WANT to pay. I don't enforce the order because I would rather spend my time, money and energy on raising my children. I can change my mind at any time though and take him back to court to raise the current CS amount and force him to pay the arrears or go to jail.

WHEN (yes, when) I do take him back to court, I'm free to spend the money I collect on anything I damn well please. I can take the $100K+ and spend it all on shoes and purses for ME and it would be perfectly acceptable. I can wait until the children are almost 18 years old, take him back to court and use the money to retire, while HE is forced to work his *** off until the day he dies in order to pay child support for 2 children that are grown adults and son't actually see a penny of the money being paid.

It is perfectly acceptable for me to do this because the child support arrears represents money that I have already SPENT raising the children. Basically, I fronted HIM the money for HIS part of the children's expenses and he would only be paying me back for the money I "loaned" him.

Since you feel the child support system should be done away with, how do YOU propose people that CHOSE to walk away from their children should be dealt with? Should I only feed the children every other day? Only buy them clothes every other year? Take them to the doctor every other time they get sick? Make them sleep in the car every other night? Do you think that would make their father wake up and realize that he should be helping out VOLUNTARILY?

I can tell you right now it WON'T happen. If he won't contribute his fair share when he is COURT ORDERED to do so, he sure as hell isn't going to do it out of the kindness of his heart (of which, I seriously doubt he even has).

In the 7 YEARS since I filed for divorce, he has asked about the children a grand total of ZERO times. I saw him in court at LEAST 50 times and I have run into him in public many times. All of these times the ONLY thing he has EVER had to say to me was how I have ruined his credit. His credit is completely trashed because HE choses not to pay HIS court ordered child support. He has f*cked it up so far beyond repair by HIS OWN DOING, that he couldn't get a loan from Guido the loanshark to by a pack of gum! Yet in HIS eyes and those of every girlfriend he has ever had, this is somehow MY fault. All because I have the POWER to fix it by "forgiving" the arrears and erasing them from his credit report (which will happen on the same day horses fly through the frozen landscape of HELL).

So, again I ask YOU, how should people like this be dealt with absent the current child support system?


You want a suggestion. Well here goes. Well when both parents want the child, time should be split 50/50 thus eliminating the need for child support and lengthy court battles that do nothing but drain both parents bank. The child wins because they get to know both parents on equal footing. The parents win because they don't have to have a winner or loser, everyone is treated like EQUALS. The whole family wins because less money is spent on lawyers. The whole system wins because you don't have all these damn lenthy cases thus just keep going back to court over and over again, thus freeing up judges time for more important matters, thus a city wouldn't need as many judges saving the tax payers money. And grandparents don't get to take away kids unless there is proving abuse. Really the only one loses are lawyers who don't get to rape people for all their money. And this would reduce the number of so called dead beat dads, because they don't have to worry about having their child stolen and paying support. They get to have a real relationship with their kids. That would solve the majority of child custody and support cases. As for your case, well maybe if you weren't bent on ruining your ex's life, maybe he would want to be involved with the kids instead of trying to get YOU(and the kids by default) out of his life. If that is not the case, well I'm sorry he is such a deadbeat, but be grateful you have your kids and get to enjoy them.

You want a suggestion. Well here goes. Well when both parents want the child, time should be split 50/50 thus eliminating the need for child support and lengthy court battles that do nothing but drain both parents bank. The child wins because they get to know both parents on equal footing. The parents win because they don't have to have a winner or loser, everyone is treated like EQUALS. The whole family wins because less money is spent on lawyers. The whole system wins because you don't have all these damn lenthy cases thus just keep going back to court over and over again, thus freeing up judges time for more important matters, thus a city wouldn't need as many judges saving the tax payers money. And grandparents don't get to take away kids unless there is proving abuse. Really the only one loses are lawyers who don't get to rape people for all their money. And this would reduce the number of so called dead beat dads, because they don't have to worry about having their child stolen and paying support. They get to have a real relationship with their kids. That would solve the majority of child custody and support cases. As for your case, well maybe if you weren't bent on ruining your ex's life, maybe he would want to be involved with the kids instead of trying to get YOU(and the kids by default) out of his life. If that is not the case, well I'm sorry he is such a deadbeat, but be grateful you have your kids and get to enjoy them.

By the great Dr. William Cosby "THAT IS THE DUMBEST THING I EVER HEARD!" and then my added line "NO WONDER YOUR BACK AND FORTH IN THE COURTS." What you just spewed would only apply to a perfect world or a utopian society which doesn't exist. Please throw out something that would sound remotely close to something actually being able to occur. :rolleyes:

Sorry Ceara for chiming in on the action.

You want a suggestion. Well here goes. Well when both parents want the child, time should be split 50/50 thus eliminating the need for child support and lengthy court battles that do nothing but drain both parents bank. The child wins because they get to know both parents on equal footing. The parents win because they don't have to have a winner or loser, everyone is treated like EQUALS. The whole family wins because less money is spent on lawyers. The whole system wins because you don't have all these damn lenthy cases thus just keep going back to court over and over again, thus freeing up judges time for more important matters, thus a city wouldn't need as many judges saving the tax payers money. And grandparents don't get to take away kids unless there is proving abuse. Really the only one loses are lawyers who don't get to rape people for all their money. And this would reduce the number of so called dead beat dads, because they don't have to worry about having their child stolen and paying support. They get to have a real relationship with their kids. That would solve the majority of child custody and support cases. As for your case, well maybe if you weren't bent on ruining your ex's life, maybe he would want to be involved with the kids instead of trying to get YOU(and the kids by default) out of his life. If that is not the case, well I'm sorry he is such a deadbeat, but be grateful you have your kids and get to enjoy them.
For the last time, Ceara did NOT steal her children and is not bent on destroying her ex"s life. He did that all by his little bitty self (the poor baby). When a person deliberately ignores and defies a court order to support his or her children FOR WHATEVER REASON that person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. There is such a thing as PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Look into it. Everybody should be responsible for all of their actions. It is not the county's, city's, state's or fedral govt.'s responsibility to support any person's lifestyle, and that includes children, planned, unplanned, wanted, unwanted, healthy or disabled. Grow up, krystalviolet. If you want to live your life by your standards and accept no cs if and when the time comes, that is your choice. Of course, you are taking away your children's right to be supported by both parents, but who cares, right? They are just children, they don't have any rights to have expectations of being supported. Yes, I know that your husband is the one paying support in a situation that you state is unjust. If it is soooo unfair, do something about it. Personally, I gotta tell you that I live in TX and if the grandmother is being granted custody over your husband, there is probably a legally valid reason that you have chosen not to share or are unaware of. Tx is not really a very good state for grandparent's rights.

As to your suggestion that the adults act fairly in all cases, then cs would never have come into existence. There was obviously a pressing need to ensure that these children were cared for. You know, it wasn't too long ago that if a child was born out of wedlock, that the father did not recognize, he or she was abandoned to starve in the streets, because, GASP, the child was a bastard (legal term) and therefore was not entitled to the care and support of his parent. They usually could not marry well, they could not inherit, they could not go to school, and on and on and on. Notice that I didn't even get to the unjustness the mother experienced. Utopia has not arrived on planet Earth yet. When it does, please let me know.

You want a suggestion. Well here goes. Well when both parents want the child, time should be split 50/50 thus eliminating the need for child support and lengthy court battles that do nothing but drain both parents bank. The child wins because they get to know both parents on equal footing. The parents win because they don't have to have a winner or loser, everyone is treated like EQUALS. The whole family wins because less money is spent on lawyers. The whole system wins because you don't have all these damn lenthy cases thus just keep going back to court over and over again, thus freeing up judges time for more important matters, thus a city wouldn't need as many judges saving the tax payers money. And grandparents don't get to take away kids unless there is proving abuse. Really the only one loses are lawyers who don't get to rape people for all their money. And this would reduce the number of so called dead beat dads, because they don't have to worry about having their child stolen and paying support. They get to have a real relationship with their kids. That would solve the majority of child custody and support cases. As for your case, well maybe if you weren't bent on ruining your ex's life, maybe he would want to be involved with the kids instead of trying to get YOU(and the kids by default) out of his life. If that is not the case, well I'm sorry he is such a deadbeat, but be grateful you have your kids and get to enjoy them.

If two parents could agree so amicably on splitting custody 50/50, chances are they probably wouldn't have gotten a divorce in the first place. While your quest/cause is noble, it seems to portray something unacheivable by the general population. Some orders do split custody 50/50 with no child support order - those do exist! But they are few and far between. The majority of child custody/support cases require the courts to sort out things in the best interest of the child when it CAN'T be 50/50 with no support order. You also need to realize that sometimes a 50/50 split is NOT in the best interest of a child. One example would be, if you have a child whose parents live more than 100 miles apart and that child is involved in sports or other extra cirricular activities, not to mention thier schooling, it would be impossible to split time with both parents 50/50. The child needs one place to live in a stable environment that is constant and can allow the child to participate in things that require them to be in one neighborhood the majority of the time. Unfortunately if the parents don't live in the same neighborhood, one of them will have to sacrafice thier parent time to be less than the other - which will also require them to help financially the other parent who has the child for that majority of the time. This is the best for the child in a lot of circumstances. In a perfect world, the parents could live close and get along - but like I mentioned before, if that were the case a lot of people probably wouldn't have gotten divorced in the first place.

If two parents could agree so amicably on splitting custody 50/50, chances are they probably wouldn't have gotten a divorce in the first place. While your quest/cause is noble, it seems to portray something unacheivable by the general population. Some orders do split custody 50/50 with no child support order - those do exist! But they are few and far between. The majority of child custody/support cases require the courts to sort out things in the best interest of the child when it CAN'T be 50/50 with no support order. You also need to realize that sometimes a 50/50 split is NOT in the best interest of a child. One example would be, if you have a child whose parents live more than 100 miles apart and that child is involved in sports or other extra cirricular activities, not to mention thier schooling, it would be impossible to split time with both parents 50/50. The child needs one place to live in a stable environment that is constant and can allow the child to participate in things that require them to be in one neighborhood the majority of the time. Unfortunately if the parents don't live in the same neighborhood, one of them will have to sacrafice thier parent time to be less than the other - which will also require them to help financially the other parent who has the child for that majority of the time. This is the best for the child in a lot of circumstances. In a perfect world, the parents could live close and get along - but like I mentioned before, if that were the case a lot of people probably wouldn't have gotten divorced in the first place.

My husband and his ex were doing a 50/50 split and things were very amicable (even though they do not get along at all) until grandma had to come barging through. Again this all has to do with adults acting like adults, not trying to hurt each other. If the laws didn't able them to hurt each other as easily, people wouldn't do it. They only do it because they can. And I would think most people would make an effort to interrupt the kids life as little as possible by staying with in a reasonable distance of the other parent. My husband turned down a job making 5 x his salary because it was in another state and his child is more important. And if the parents aren't close enough for the child to go to the same school, they time they stay at each house could be increased to have stabilty in school and activities. Family values should be emphasized over school and activities any way. School and activities are there for while, but inveitably it is your family that is forever and a child should have the opportunity to get to know both parents and extended families. It is difficult to know a parent when you only see them a measely few days a month.

By the great Dr. William Cosby "THAT IS THE DUMBEST THING I EVER HEARD!" and then my added line "NO WONDER YOUR BACK AND FORTH IN THE COURTS." What you just spewed would only apply to a perfect world or a utopian society which doesn't exist. Please throw out something that would sound remotely close to something actually being able to occur. :rolleyes:

Sorry Ceara for chiming in on the action.

I don't see you with any better suggestions. It is not a dumb idea. I've seen it work very well. Thank you very much. :p

My husband and his ex were doing a 50/50 split and things were very amicable (even though they do not get along at all) until grandma had to come barging through. Again this all has to do with adults acting like adults, not trying to hurt each other. If the laws didn't able them to hurt each other as easily, people wouldn't do it. They only do it because they can. And I would think most people would make an effort to interrupt the kids life as little as possible by staying with in a reasonable distance of the other parent. My husband turned down a job making 5 x his salary because it was in another state and his child is more important. And if the parents aren't close enough for the child to go to the same school, they time they stay at each house could be increased to have stabilty in school and activities. Family values should be emphasized over school and activities any way. School and activities are there for while, but inveitably it is your family that is forever and a child should have the opportunity to get to know both parents and extended families. It is difficult to know a parent when you only see them a measely few days a month.
In the words of Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' for ya"?" Do you honestly think her mother just "barged in" without the explicit or implied approval from her daughter? Get real. Even in your perfect, adult world, it didn't work. And now, you and your husband are part of the system that you so deplore, trying to make it work for you, wether through straight forward law or loopholes. Hmmmm, Eden is burning, again. In other words, you just proved eveybody's point for us.

From the beginning of time, people have done shady and horrible things to gain power and control over others. The child support system and the courts did not create this phenomenon.

For the last time, Ceara did NOT steal her children and is not bent on destroying her ex"s life. He did that all by his little bitty self (the poor baby). When a person deliberately ignores and defies a court order to support his or her children FOR WHATEVER REASON that person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. There is such a thing as PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Look into it. Everybody should be responsible for all of their actions. It is not the county's, city's, state's or fedral govt.'s responsibility to support any person's lifestyle, and that includes children, planned, unplanned, wanted, unwanted, healthy or disabled. Grow up, krystalviolet. If you want to live your life by your standards and accept no cs if and when the time comes, that is your choice. Of course, you are taking away your children's right to be supported by both parents, but who cares, right? They are just children, they don't have any rights to have expectations of being supported. Yes, I know that your husband is the one paying support in a situation that you state is unjust. If it is soooo unfair, do something about it. Personally, I gotta tell you that I live in TX and if the grandmother is being granted custody over your husband, there is probably a legally valid reason that you have chosen not to share or are unaware of. Tx is not really a very good state for grandparent's rights.

As to your suggestion that the adults act fairly in all cases, then cs would never have come into existence. There was obviously a pressing need to ensure that these children were cared for. You know, it wasn't too long ago that if a child was born out of wedlock, that the father did not recognize, he or she was abandoned to starve in the streets, because, GASP, the child was a bastard (legal term) and therefore was not entitled to the care and support of his parent. They usually could not marry well, they could not inherit, they could not go to school, and on and on and on. Notice that I didn't even get to the unjustness the mother experienced. Utopia has not arrived on planet Earth yet. When it does, please let me know.

Well maybe if people acted like it was utopia, it would become that. People have a lot of power to change things, even with little steps every day.

This is how grandma got into this. Round 1 mom and dad had their lawyers drop out and she got minimally visitation. AKA foot in the door. Round 2 Grandma and Dad decided to try to take rights away from Mom. We didn't have any more for lawyer and thought she was on our side(big mistake). Grandma's lawyer lied to my husband and had him sign something revpking his rights. She said it was waiving the court reporter(I witnessed this)When we found out I had to get some money from my family for a lawyer (and got a dirt cheap one that didn't know what he was doing because that is all we could avoid). Grandma then lied again and said child was living with her. She was able to do this because my husband wanted his child to go to a particular school and needed Grandma's address to do so. So Grandma got primary on the temporary orders. They Grandma dragged out case forever. Ad litem suggest child stay with Grandma because "he was doing well there." They found NOTHING wrong with our household. Because of reccommendation grandma offered deal with no CS if parties agreed to her being primary. Our damn good for nothing lawyer (who lost every piece of evidence we gave him) suggested settle and fight another day. He made it sound like no big deal to modify. So my husband stupidly settled, because he was afraid things would be worse. There is no way we could have afforded CS payments. Round 3 - We saved some money for a real lawyer, which didn't help we had to fire them, and got another one. To summarize judge said nothing has changed(nothing was wrong in the first damn place) so custody has not changed, but we can order CS. And now we are in the middle of ROUND 4!!!!!! And our lawyer says best thing we can do is to drag out til judge is out of office and maybe til child is 12. And file for a jury trial. So we are trying to change it.

That is the short version. If you have a better way to change it, I would LOVE to hear it.

The only thing my husband did wrong is obtain bad legal advice and trust his mother. Grandma has said other crap, but none of it is has proven to have an iota of truth.

Well maybe if people acted like it was utopia, it would become that. People have a lot of power to change things, even with little steps every day.

This is how grandma got into this. Round 1 mom and dad had their lawyers drop out and she got minimally visitation. AKA foot in the door. Round 2 Grandma and Dad decided to try to take rights away from Mom. We didn't have any more for lawyer and thought she was on our side(big mistake). Grandma's lawyer lied to my husband and had him sign something revpking his rights. She said it was waiving the court reporter(I witnessed this)When we found out I had to get some money from my family for a lawyer (and got a dirt cheap one that didn't know what he was doing because that is all we could avoid). Grandma then lied again and said child was living with her. She was able to do this because my husband wanted his child to go to a particular school and needed Grandma's address to do so. So Grandma got primary on the temporary orders. They Grandma dragged out case forever. Ad litem suggest child stay with Grandma because "he was doing well there." They found NOTHING wrong with our household. Because of reccommendation grandma offered deal with no CS if parties agreed to her being primary. Our damn good for nothing lawyer (who lost every piece of evidence we gave him) suggested settle and fight another day. He made it sound like no big deal to modify. So my husband stupidly settled, because he was afraid things would be worse. There is no way we could have afforded CS payments. Round 3 - We saved some money for a real lawyer, which didn't help we had to fire them, and got another one. To summarize judge said nothing has changed(nothing was wrong in the first damn place) so custody has not changed, but we can order CS. And now we are in the middle of ROUND 4!!!!!! And our lawyer says best thing we can do is to drag out til judge is out of office and maybe til child is 12. And file for a jury trial. So we are trying to change it.

That is the short version. If you have a better way to change it, I would LOVE to hear it.

The only thing my husband did wrong is obtain bad legal advice and trust his mother. Grandma has said other crap, but none of it is has proven to have an iota of truth.
So essentially, your mess all started when your husband and his MOMMY decided to take his child away from the mother. And you don't see a contradiction in your statements and his actions? In other words, if everybody involved in your situation would do what you want them to do, then there would be no problems. I'm sorry to tell you this, but ignorance is not a defense. If your husband was ignorant enough to sign a legal document without being aware of what it said, then that is 100% his fault. The fact is that your husband was willing to use the system and CHEAT the system (illegal address so child could attend a particular school) and got caught in his own trap. The system was just fine until it started going against him. So, no the system does not need to be changed (for your situation) the people need to realize that if you try to screw around, it will come back to bite you in the ***. Now, it is time for you and your husband to take (wait for it) PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and realize that he is as much responsible for this mess as anybody else is. Tell him to suck it up. Surely, he knew what his mother was and is capable of. Ever think that he might have willingly given his child to his mother, but just needs a good cover story?

If so many legal professionals are not able to help, then there is something else going on here. Either you don't know what it is, or you do, but know that once you reveal what it is, everybody will tell you the same thing the lawyers have. At the least, if everything is on the up and up, there should be VERY liberal visitation and both parents should be paying support. Why in the world would the g-mom force her son to pay support, but not the mother that was supposedly so horrible that she teamed up with the dad to take the child away from her. Something doesn't add up, and it is your story.

By the great Dr. William Cosby "THAT IS THE DUMBEST THING I EVER HEARD!" and then my added line "NO WONDER YOUR BACK AND FORTH IN THE COURTS." What you just spewed would only apply to a perfect world or a utopian society which doesn't exist. Please throw out something that would sound remotely close to something actually being able to occur. :rolleyes:

Sorry Ceara for chiming in on the action.

I LOVE your reply!

To krystaleviolette, even though others have explained the situation to you, I'll do it again. I didn't steal the kids, hide the kids, attempt to ruin his life in any way shape or form. I did NOT get a divorce because he was a bad HUSBAND. He had been that for quite some time. I filed for a divorce because he became a bad FATHER. I'm an adult. I could have lived with a bad husband in order for my children to have BOTH parents around all the time. I could not, will not and NEVER will FORCE him or anyone else to be around the children if they don't WANT to be there.

I did everything in my power to MAKE him a good parent in the beginning. I was the one that brought the children to see him, EVERY DAY, in the beginning. He wasn't interested in seeing them. He stopped being there at the times we had agreed to or he would be so drunk he couldn't stand up when he was. Finally, I realized that it was not MY job to make him a good parent. But it was MY job to protect them from someone that had absolutely NO interest in them at all.

He decided to drag the divorce out as long as possible in order to avoid a permanent child support order. He managed to drag it out 2 YEARS. The judge gave him COUNTLESS chances to be a father. He even came right out and said "I don't WANT to have anything to do with them". HIS CHOICE. The final divorce decree reflects that. That was over 5 YEARS ago. I have seen him a few times in court and I have spoken with him a few times on the phone. He has NEVER initiated any type of contact (which, at THIS point, he is barred from doing).

But on EVERY occassion that I have seen or spoken to him, NOT ONCE has he ver so much as ASKED about the children. He has no problem telling me what a ***** he thinks I am (for ruining his credit :rolleyes: and his relationships :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ). I have to deal with every new girlfriend he gets, because he gives them his big sob story about how I have kidnapped the children and hidden them from him and how I have taken every penny he has, both of which are lies. If I have taken the children and gone into hiding, I'm doing a piss-poor job of it. Since the divorce, I have lived at 2 different addresses and at one point, 4 BLOCKS away from him. We live in a town with a population of under 100K, so it's not like I could hide even if I WANTED to. MY phone number and address is NOT listed in any type of public database, but it has NOTHING at all to do with HIM. It is because of the nature of my WORK.

Which brings me to another point. If I am trying to hide, I have certainly made a very poor choice of careers. My photograph is printed right next to my articles in the paper and I am on television numerous times a month. People that are in hiding tend to avoid the spotlight.

SO...either he's a lying sack of sh*t or I am the WORST kidnapper in the history of the universe, decide for yourself.

Now, I ask you AGAIN, what would YOU suggest be done to make this person be held accountable for the 2 children that he helped create? 50/50 custody is pretty much out of the question, so you're going to actually have to put some THOUGHT into it, if you are actually capable of doing such.

Personally, I don't care. But I have no intention on forgiving him for what he has done. It's not MY place to do so. That is up to the children to decide when THEY are ready to. Like I told him the last time I saw him, I have no desire to ever see him again outside of a coffin.

So essentially, your mess all started when your husband and his MOMMY decided to take his child away from the mother. And you don't see a contradiction in your statements and his actions? In other words, if everybody involved in your situation would do what you want them to do, then there would be no problems. I'm sorry to tell you this, but ignorance is not a defense. If your husband was ignorant enough to sign a legal document without being aware of what it said, then that is 100% his fault. The fact is that your husband was willing to use the system and CHEAT the system (illegal address so child could attend a particular school) and got caught in his own trap. The system was just fine until it started going against him. So, no the system does not need to be changed (for your situation) the people need to realize that if you try to screw around, it will come back to bite you in the ***. Now, it is time for you and your husband to take (wait for it) PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and realize that he is as much responsible for this mess as anybody else is. Tell him to suck it up. Surely, he knew what his mother was and is capable of. Ever think that he might have willingly given his child to his mother, but just needs a good cover story?

If so many legal professionals are not able to help, then there is something else going on here. Either you don't know what it is, or you do, but know that once you reveal what it is, everybody will tell you the same thing the lawyers have. At the least, if everything is on the up and up, there should be VERY liberal visitation and both parents should be paying support. Why in the world would the g-mom force her son to pay support, but not the mother that was supposedly so horrible that she teamed up with the dad to take the child away from her. Something doesn't add up, and it is your story.

Something doesn't add up and its the ****ing legal system. My husband would have NEVER given up his child. What has happened is the only thing I have ever seen my husband cry about.

I have to go to back to work or I would write a lot more.

Something doesn't add up and its the ****ing legal system. My husband would have NEVER given up his child. What has happened is the only thing I have ever seen my husband cry about.

I have to go to back to work or I would write a lot more.

Well, somehow, even with a lawyer at his disposal to read over the documents BEFORE he signed, he did give up his child. Even if the lawyer he had was a complete, incompetent fool, a dismissal of a court reporter reads VERY differently than a revoking of custodial rights. If he didn't trust that lawyer, he could have easily consulted with any other attorney to read over the papers. It may have cost $50-$150, but compared to the results, that's dirt cheap.

You can ***** and moan about the "system" all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that the "system" was just fine while YOU were using it get your way, but the minute it caught up to you, it's "EVIL". Karma, baby.

Well, somehow, even with a lawyer at his disposal to read over the documents BEFORE he signed, he did give up his child. Even if the lawyer he had was a complete, incompetent fool, a dismissal of a court reporter reads VERY differently than a revoking of custodial rights. If he didn't trust that lawyer, he could have easily consulted with any other attorney to read over the papers. It may have cost $50-$150, but compared to the results, that's dirt cheap.

You can ***** and moan about the "system" all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that the "system" was just fine while YOU were using it get your way, but the minute it caught up to you, it's "EVIL". Karma, baby.

Sweetie, I like nothing about the system. Don't get me started on the government because I have nothing but ideas what needs to be done about the crooked politics. If you are referring to the school thing, I told him to put Chaney in school by us. He insisted he get enrolled elsewhere because it is the school he went it and it is very highly. And my husband didn't have a lawyer as his disposable. He more than paid for those minute mistakes with the year plus during round 2 he saw he son 1 weekend a month. And as yall say it is about the children. The child shouldn't have to pay till god knows when for some damn legal crap that happened 5 years ago. Yall are a bunch of hypocrites. And I have no bad Karma. I treat others as I would want to be treated. In fact it was being nice to people that got my husband into this situation in the first place. And even then I tried to play mediator till I couldn't stand all the lies and BS. All my husband has ever done is try to get along and he got stabbed in the back for no reason other than his own mother hates him for her own personal reasons god knows what they are. And when this child is grown up and doesn't talk to her and her own son doesn't talk to her and she dies a lonely old woman she will gets what she deserves. Her evil Karma will come back to her. We just hate seeing Chaney suffer. He hates being there. And she don't give a damn. If he was happy living there, then we would be happy for him. But he is not, and he has health problems because of the excessive second hand cigarette smoke at both his other houses. But no one cares about that, because the damn tobacco companies pay off the government.

[QUOTE=mommyof4]Well, somehow, even with a lawyer at his disposal to read over the documents BEFORE he signed, he did give up his child. Even if the lawyer he had was a complete, incompetent fool, a dismissal of a court reporter reads VERY differently than a revoking of custodial rights. If he didn't trust that lawyer, he could have easily consulted with any other attorney to read over the papers. It may have cost $50-$150, but compared to the results, that's dirt cheap.

You can ***** and moan about the "system" all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that the "system" was just fine while YOU were using it get your way, but the minute it caught up to you, it's "EVIL". Karma, baby.[/QUOTE

And most lawyers want $200 plus just to discuss the possiblity of the case let alone give advice.

I LOVE your reply!

To krystaleviolette, even though others have explained the situation to you, I'll do it again. I didn't steal the kids, hide the kids, attempt to ruin his life in any way shape or form. I did NOT get a divorce because he was a bad HUSBAND. He had been that for quite some time. I filed for a divorce because he became a bad FATHER. I'm an adult. I could have lived with a bad husband in order for my children to have BOTH parents around all the time. I could not, will not and NEVER will FORCE him or anyone else to be around the children if they don't WANT to be there.

I did everything in my power to MAKE him a good parent in the beginning. I was the one that brought the children to see him, EVERY DAY, in the beginning. He wasn't interested in seeing them. He stopped being there at the times we had agreed to or he would be so drunk he couldn't stand up when he was. Finally, I realized that it was not MY job to make him a good parent. But it was MY job to protect them from someone that had absolutely NO interest in them at all.

He decided to drag the divorce out as long as possible in order to avoid a permanent child support order. He managed to drag it out 2 YEARS. The judge gave him COUNTLESS chances to be a father. He even came right out and said "I don't WANT to have anything to do with them". HIS CHOICE. The final divorce decree reflects that. That was over 5 YEARS ago. I have seen him a few times in court and I have spoken with him a few times on the phone. He has NEVER initiated any type of contact (which, at THIS point, he is barred from doing).

But on EVERY occassion that I have seen or spoken to him, NOT ONCE has he ver so much as ASKED about the children. He has no problem telling me what a ***** he thinks I am (for ruining his credit :rolleyes: and his relationships :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ). I have to deal with every new girlfriend he gets, because he gives them his big sob story about how I have kidnapped the children and hidden them from him and how I have taken every penny he has, both of which are lies. If I have taken the children and gone into hiding, I'm doing a piss-poor job of it. Since the divorce, I have lived at 2 different addresses and at one point, 4 BLOCKS away from him. We live in a town with a population of under 100K, so it's not like I could hide even if I WANTED to. MY phone number and address is NOT listed in any type of public database, but it has NOTHING at all to do with HIM. It is because of the nature of my WORK.

Which brings me to another point. If I am trying to hide, I have certainly made a very poor choice of careers. My photograph is printed right next to my articles in the paper and I am on television numerous times a month. People that are in hiding tend to avoid the spotlight.

SO...either he's a lying sack of sh*t or I am the WORST kidnapper in the history of the universe, decide for yourself.

Now, I ask you AGAIN, what would YOU suggest be done to make this person be held accountable for the 2 children that he helped create? 50/50 custody is pretty much out of the question, so you're going to actually have to put some THOUGHT into it, if you are actually capable of doing such.

Personally, I don't care. But I have no intention on forgiving him for what he has done. It's not MY place to do so. That is up to the children to decide when THEY are ready to. Like I told him the last time I saw him, I have no desire to ever see him again outside of a coffin.


Ceara,

Honestly not trying to offend you. I don't know you or your ex. All I am saying if the laws were different maybe people would act different. And sorry he is acting like a bastard, but at least you have wonderful children you get to spend time with. That pleasure should mean a lot more than what a loser your ex acts like. And the 50/50 would work for a lot of situations not all. I think we are all on different sides of the same coin.

[QUOTE=mommyof4]Well, somehow, even with a lawyer at his disposal to read over the documents BEFORE he signed, he did give up his child. Even if the lawyer he had was a complete, incompetent fool, a dismissal of a court reporter reads VERY differently than a revoking of custodial rights. If he didn't trust that lawyer, he could have easily consulted with any other attorney to read over the papers. It may have cost $50-$150, but compared to the results, that's dirt cheap.

You can ***** and moan about the "system" all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that the "system" was just fine while YOU were using it get your way, but the minute it caught up to you, it's "EVIL". Karma, baby.[/QUOTE

And most lawyers want $200 plus just to discuss the possiblity of the case let alone give advice.

Well, I don't define "being nice" as trying to take a child away from the mother, especially if he couldn't do it without his mother's help. I am assuming that he can read. He should have taken the time to read what he was signing. If he wasn't comfortable with signing the paper after he actually read it, he didn't have to. Do you really think that $200 was too much to spend in light of the results? If so, then he doesn't deserve anything exept exactly what he paid for. Nothing.

Ceara,

Honestly not trying to offend you. I don't know you or your ex. All I am saying if the laws were different maybe people would act different. And sorry he is acting like a bastard, but at least you have wonderful children you get to spend time with. That pleasure should mean a lot more than what a loser your ex acts like. And the 50/50 would work for a lot of situations not all. I think we are all on different sides of the same coin.

You don't personally offend me at all. And there is no reason for you to appologize for my ex's misdeed, he screwed that pooch all on his own.

I DO take offense to women like you in general. I'm not saying that your husband got a fair deal, I don't know, wasn't there, don't really care. What I don't like is how an agreement can work out FINE for years with all of the relevent parties (mom, dad and kids) happy with it. Until one day, dad gets a new girlfriend or wife and this woman feels the need to tell him how bad he got screwed and how he shouldn't have to pay so much in child support or whatever line of BS it is they are trying to sell. Then a perfectly happy FAMILY (mom, dad and kids) are now at odds because of the actions of an outsider.

YOU (or any other STEP parent) has NO business interfering AT ALL.

You don't personally offend me at all. And there is no reason for you to appologize for my ex's misdeed, he screwed that pooch all on his own.

I DO take offense to women like you in general. I'm not saying that your husband got a fair deal, I don't know, wasn't there, don't really care. What I don't like is how an agreement can work out FINE for years with all of the relevent parties (mom, dad and kids) happy with it. Until one day, dad gets a new girlfriend or wife and this woman feels the need to tell him how bad he got screwed and how he shouldn't have to pay so much in child support or whatever line of BS it is they are trying to sell. Then a perfectly happy FAMILY (mom, dad and kids) are now at odds because of the actions of an outsider.

YOU (or any other STEP parent) has NO business interfering AT ALL.


Yes we do. First of all in my situation, my stepson thinks of me more of his mother than her. He talks to me a lot. He doesn't like his alcoholic of a mother that can't cook worth a damn or pay him any attention cause she she is too busy smoking and hanging out with her friends.

Second of all situation like these prevent us second wives from having our own blood children and affect our lives greatly, so yes we should have a voice at the very least. Like I said you should be blessed to be a full time mother to several, well I am a part time step mom to one.

You don't personally offend me at all. And there is no reason for you to appologize for my ex's misdeed, he screwed that pooch all on his own.

I DO take offense to women like you in general. I'm not saying that your husband got a fair deal, I don't know, wasn't there, don't really care. What I don't like is how an agreement can work out FINE for years with all of the relevent parties (mom, dad and kids) happy with it. Until one day, dad gets a new girlfriend or wife and this woman feels the need to tell him how bad he got screwed and how he shouldn't have to pay so much in child support or whatever line of BS it is they are trying to sell. Then a perfectly happy FAMILY (mom, dad and kids) are now at odds because of the actions of an outsider.

YOU (or any other STEP parent) has NO business interfering AT ALL.




I am not interfering, I am being a good wife to my husband trying to help and support him. Maybe the rest of yall should try it sometime. I try to be his second set up eyes so he they don't pull some more BS. And I was with him long before the CS became and issue. And surprise I told him just to pay so we don't have to go to court again because obviously things always end up worse. He hates the CS much more than I do. But damn Grandma wants to terminate my husbands rights before the child turns 12 because she knows that once the child can be heard, she might lose because her lies will catch up with her.

If you think that badly of us, what do you think of a grandmother that lies and says things like my husband sexually abuses his son and teaches him to abuse women. First of all I would know if my husband is abusive to women. He is anything but. And on the first charge, my husband is damn near impotent so there is no way he is sexually abusing any one.

Yes we do. First of all in my situation, my stepson thinks of me more of his mother than her. He talks to me a lot. He doesn't like his alcoholic of a mother that can't cook worth a damn or pay him any attention cause she she is too busy smoking and hanging out with her friends.

Second of all situation like these prevent us second wives from having our own blood children and affect our lives greatly, so yes we should have a voice at the very least. Like I said you should be blessed to be a full time mother to several, well I am a part time step mom to one.
Well, no, this situation did not prevent you from having a child of your own. You could have chosen a man who did not have a child to marry and have a child with. So, while the mother may be a loser, she is NOT to blame for any of your problems. She was there first. Everybody knew she was part of this equation. You still decided your husband was worth it. I am not saying that he is not worth it, just realize that you made sacrifices and now must deal with the reality of the situation. There are many step-mothers that have children with their husband. So, once again, you are making a choice. In this case, it seems to be a smart decision. So, props to you for that.

[QUOTE=krystaleviolette]

Well, I don't define "being nice" as trying to take a child away from the mother, especially if he couldn't do it without his mother's help. I am assuming that he can read. He should have taken the time to read what he was signing. If he wasn't comfortable with signing the paper after he actually read it, he didn't have to. Do you really think that $200 was too much to spend in light of the results? If so, then he doesn't deserve anything exept exactly what he paid for. Nothing.

That was primarily Grandma trying to do that because mom was moving about every 3 months with different boyfriends each time. Grandma and Dad both witnessed excessive alcohol bottles around her trailer house and Mom was trying to unenroll Chaney in school. Grandma filed the petition to modify. Like I said my husband never should have trusted his mother. And he knows much better now.

And the more I meet people like her and people on her that don't care about fathers right the more I think, " The more I meet people, the more I like my dog." At least dogs are loyal.

[QUOTE=mommyof4]

That was primarily Grandma trying to do that because mom was moving about every 3 months with different boyfriends each time. Grandma and Dad both witnessed excessive alcohol bottles around her trailer house and Mom was trying to unenroll Chaney in school. Grandma filed the petition to modify. Like I said my husband never should have trusted his mother. And he knows much better now.

And the more I meet people like her and people on her that don't care about fathers right the more I think, " The more I meet people, the more I like my dog." At least dogs are loyal.
You're right, I don't care particularly about father's rights. I don't particularly care about mother's rights, either. I care about CHILDREN'S rights. Novel, isn't it?

Well, no, this situation did not prevent you from having a child of your own. You could have chosen a man who did not have a child to marry and have a child with. So, while the mother may be a loser, she is NOT to blame for any of your problems. She was there first. Everybody knew she was part of this equation. You still decided your husband was worth it. I am not saying that he is not worth it, just realize that you made sacrifices and now must deal with the reality of the situation. There are many step-mothers that have children with their husband. So, once again, you are making a choice. In this case, it seems to be a smart decision. So, props to you for that.


Actually yes it does, because my husband and I don't believe in day care. We have decided he gets to stay home when the time comes that we can afford it. And we will never be able to afford it with CS and legal fees all the time. Plus the mother in law would probably try to take our children too. And like I said before, it is not the ex that is the main problem, it is the backstabbing malicious mother in law that should have to be reprimanded for her lies and making the child have mental and health problems.

[QUOTE=krystaleviolette]
You're right, I don't care particularly about father's rights. I don't particularly care about mother's rights, either. I care about CHILDREN'S rights. Novel, isn't it?


Well if you did and you listened to one word of my story, you would see the child wants to be with his father. There is no reason for him not to be, and there is plenty of reason for him not to be where he is.

Actually yes it does, because my husband and I don't believe in day care. We have decided he gets to stay home when the time comes that we can afford it. And we will never be able to afford it with CS and legal fees all the time. Plus the mother in law would probably try to take our children too. And like I said before, it is not the ex that is the main problem, it is the backstabbing malicious mother in law that should have to be reprimanded for her lies and making the child have mental and health problems.

Hmm, then you and your husband need to come up with a way to pay for a good attorney. I am tired of hearing about how much someone wants their child, but it is too expensive to fight for them. What kind of message do you think that sends? That the child is only worth $150? Yes, I know from first hand experience how expensive it can be, but you know what? I figured out a way to get it done. I worked my *** off to pay $50,000 in legal fees. So, it can be done, you just have to want it enough.

[QUOTE=mommyof4]


Well if you did and you listened to one word of my story, you would see the child wants to be with his father. There is no reason for him not to be, and there is plenty of reason for him not to be where he is.
No, I only have what you say to go on. Just because a child wants something, does not mean it is always the best for a child.

Hmm, then you and your husband need to come up with a way to pay for a good attorney. I am tired of hearing about how much someone wants their child, but it is too expensive to fight for them. What kind of message do you think that sends? That the child is only worth $150? Yes, I know from first hand experience how expensive it can be, but you know what? I figured out a way to get it done. I worked my *** off to pay $50,000 in legal fees. So, it can be done, you just have to want it enough.


I work 12 -14 hours 5 days a week. My husband works 40 plus hours plus takes care of the house and pets and drives me to work. We work our damn asses off. We spend $5000(with my stock options) on our first lawyer in round 3 and they did squat. So spending money doesn't mean anything. And Grandma has home town advantage which seems to factor in big. That and that last judge who wanted to go home at 5 and not deal with us rather than actually listening to our case.

[QUOTE=krystaleviolette]
No, I only have what you say to go on. Just because a child wants something, does not mean it is always the best for a child.


They smoke, drink, ignore him, talk down to him when they do recognize his presence, lie about him and to him.......we don't.

Hmm, then you and your husband need to come up with a way to pay for a good attorney. I am tired of hearing about how much someone wants their child, but it is too expensive to fight for them. What kind of message do you think that sends? That the child is only worth $150? Yes, I know from first hand experience how expensive it can be, but you know what? I figured out a way to get it done. I worked my *** off to pay $50,000 in legal fees. So, it can be done, you just have to want it enough.


Its hard to come up with tons of money when you have to work OT just to pay the bills. And unfortunetely I come from a poor family, so I get very little help from that end. We have to support ourselves. We have no help from mommy and daddy like most people our age do.

I work 12 -14 hours 5 days a week. My husband works 40 plus hours plus takes care of the house and pets and drives me to work. We work our damn asses off. We spend $5000(with my stock options) on our first lawyer in round 3 and they did squat. So spending money doesn't mean anything. And Grandma has home town advantage which seems to factor in big. That and that last judge who wanted to go home at 5 and not deal with us rather than actually listening to our case.

Well, that leaves him appx. 125 hours a week. Surely sometime between feeding the pets, he can get a 2nd job. Even figuring 8 hours of sleep a night, that leaves 72 hours in the week. Again, priorities. If you have to, get rid of the pets and get a smaller, cheaper house.

Hmm, then you and your husband need to come up with a way to pay for a good attorney. I am tired of hearing about how much someone wants their child, but it is too expensive to fight for them. What kind of message do you think that sends? That the child is only worth $150? Yes, I know from first hand experience how expensive it can be, but you know what? I figured out a way to get it done. I worked my *** off to pay $50,000 in legal fees. So, it can be done, you just have to want it enough.


And the child is priceless, but the more practical side of life is sometime the money just ain't there and you don't have time to come up with it.

Well, that leaves him appx. 125 hours a week. Surely sometime between feeding the pets, he can get a 2nd job. Even figuring 8 hours of sleep a night, that leaves 72 hours in the week. Again, priorities. If you have to, get rid of the pets and get a smaller, cheaper house.


Been there, just reduced house payment significantly by moving to a mobile home out in the country and eliminated water bill. Had to let my other house get foreclosed on to do. Didn't have much choice though when I lost my job.

My animals are my children, so there will no "getting rid of them." Why don't you get rid of your children? And like I said before I rather be around my pets than most people.

So I guess you expect people to have no livelyhood at all? Hello he needs to spend time with his son and me too. So put that in your little calculations. I think the five hours my husband gets to sleep are neccessary to function. And don't forget to throw in the commute time. You have no sense of time management at all. Not to mention the stress of all this is probably going to kill him anyway. Lets make his life that much shorter and get him a second job.

oh, and did I forget to add in time to get ready for work, cook, clean, take care of bills, fix stuff, spray posion, take the animals to the vet, take the care to get the oil changed, change lightbulbs, run errands ....... SPEND TIME WITH HIS SON

You know I have learned a lot from this site and unfortunetly none of it is good. The laws are stacked against men, and there is plenty of vengeful women out there.

Been there, just reduced house payment significantly by moving to a mobile home out in the country and eliminated water bill. Had to let my other house get foreclosed on to do. Didn't have much choice though when I lost my job.

My animals are my children, so there will no "getting rid of them." Why don't you get rid of your children? And like I said before I rather be around my pets than most people.

So I guess you expect people to have no livelyhood at all? Hello he needs to spend time with his son and me too. So put that in your little calculations. I think the five hours my husband gets to sleep are neccessary to function. And don't forget to throw in the commute time. You have no sense of time management at all. Not to mention the stress of all this is probably going to kill him anyway. Lets make his life that much shorter and get him a second job.

Sorry, but if you are so concerned about a little boy, you will need to recognize that the animals are NOT children. You may love them, but the child should be more important to you ane your husband. I have very good time management skills. I raise 4 children. 2 are in different schools. I actually figured it out that for one year I will have one in college, one in hs, one in middle school and one in elementary. I'm just saying you have to decide what it is worth to you and your husband. If all you are going to do is make excuses and whine about how unfair the system THAT YOU USED to try to get your way is, then you have determined your course of action. Oh, and my mommy and daddy do not support me financially.

In reply to your last post, I see you as being vengeful. You are angry the 'system' did not work in your favor, so let's make sure that no child recieves child support. That is what you support. Well, sorry, life ain't fair, and you should have learned that when you were about 3.

krystaleviolette & barbie, NEITHER one of you have any children of your own. If there IS a higher power, you never will. But if you do, krystaleviolette, come back in a few years after you have a child with your husband and he finally gets fed up and leaves you. If you are THIS controlling with a child that you have NO LEGAL RIGHTS TO, god help your husband when you do have one of your own. I'll bet the farm you won't still be pushing for no child support and 50/50 custody.

barbie, when your bf gets fed up with YOU, you will be going out of your way to make sure he has to pay every single penny you can squeeze out of him and you know it. You are mean, self centered and vindictive to say the least. You are trying to do everything in your power to screw over an INNOCENT CHILD all because her mother had the nerve to have a child with YOUR boyfriend.

So until EITHER one of you have any sort of FAMILY LAW experience of YOUR OWN or even a family of your own for that matter, stop trying to pass off your personal feelings on ONE PARTICULAR CASE as any kind of fact. The people that come here for HELP, need nothing from either of you.

krystaleviolette & barbie, NEITHER one of you have any children of your own. If there IS a higher power, you never will. But if you do, krystaleviolette, come back in a few years after you have a child with your husband and he finally gets fed up and leaves you. If you are THIS controlling with a child that you have NO LEGAL RIGHTS TO, god help your husband when you do have one of your own. I'll bet the farm you won't still be pushing for no child support and 50/50 custody.

barbie, when your bf gets fed up with YOU, you will be going out of your way to make sure he has to pay every single penny you can squeeze out of him and you know it. You are mean, self centered and vindictive to say the least. You are trying to do everything in your power to screw over an INNOCENT CHILD all because her mother had the nerve to have a child with YOUR boyfriend.

So until EITHER one of you have any sort of FAMILY LAW experience of YOUR OWN or even a family of your own for that matter, stop trying to pass off your personal feelings on ONE PARTICULAR CASE as any kind of fact. The people that come here for HELP, need nothing from either of you.

I came here for help. And yall didn't give anything but critcism. So try to be helpful, not critically to these people looking for HELP. And I am already 100 times the mother you are just to my stepson. I am not controlling any one. So you are the one that needs to grow up Ceara.

I came here for help. And yall didn't give anything but critcism. So try to be helpful, not critically to these people looking for HELP. And I am already 100 times the mother you are just to my stepson. I am not controlling any one. So you are the one that needs to grow up Ceara.

We told you what your husband needed to do. In return, we got anger, whining, *****ing, complaining and excuses as to why anything suggested would not work. It is obvious you are one of those people who make a lot of noise, but take no action. If you think your animals are your children, maybe you should stick to the animals. A child deserves so much more than to be put on the same level as a pet. You are NOT the mother, and you never will be. That is the reality.

I came here for help. And yall didn't give anything but critcism. So try to be helpful, not critically to these people looking for HELP. And I am already 100 times the mother you are just to my stepson. I am not controlling any one. So you are the one that needs to grow up Ceara.

Well, when MY children are happy, healthy, well educated adults making a DIFFERENCE and yours are in daily therapy because they were no more important to mom then livestock, society can decide who the better mother is. Which, by the way is something that you AREN'T, you are a step mother and for some reason you keep forgetting that.

We told you what your husband needed to do. In return, we got anger, whining, *****ing, complaining and excuses as to why anything suggested would not work. It is obvious you are one of those people who make a lot of noise, but take no action. If you think your animals are your children, maybe you should stick to the animals. A child deserves so much more than to be put on the same level as a pet. You are NOT the mother, and you never will be. That is the reality.


Hmmm...are you the lady I saw intentionaly run over dog saturday? Cause you sure sound like it. Animals are creatures of God too. They are family pets a family which includes my stepson and they are not causing us not to have him. A few dollars a week for pet food is not going to make a difference enough to get a better lawyer. And we have a lawyer and the reason I am working so much OT is when he says I need more money or hey we need money for social study or whatever we won't be scraping as hard to come up with it.

The only suggestions I got was spend more money on a attorney and we have an attorney. We have spend money. I am working OT. A lot of OT. My husband has a regular full time job which will not pay OT plus the full time job of taking care of the house and family. If I am missing a real legal suggestion, please point it out.

Got to go WORK.

Hmmm...are you the lady I saw intentionaly run over dog saturday? Cause you sure sound like it. Animals are creatures of God too. They are family pets which include my stepson and they are not causing us not to have him. A few dollars a week for pet food is not going to make a difference enough to get a better lawyer. And we have a lawyer and the reason I am working so much OT is when he says I need more money or hey we need money for social study we won't be scraping as hard to come up with it.

The only suggestions I got was spend more money on a attorney and we have an attorney. We have spend money. I am working OT. A lot of OT. My husband has a regular full time job which will not pay OT plus the full time job of taking care of the house and family. If I am missing a real legal suggestion, please point it out.

Got to go WORK.

Yes, that was a logical argument. Children are not pets. Pets are not children. I love my dog to pieces (and the fish, too) but if it came down to my kids or my dog, the dog goes. Grow up. I stand by my last statements to you. Stick with the animals.

Yes, that was a logical argument. Children are not pets. Pets are not children. I love my dog to pieces (and the fish, too) but if it came down to my kids or my dog, the dog goes. Grow up. I stand by my last statements to you. Stick with the animals.


I agree with you animals vs children....children win....but that is not the issue here.

You should stick to NOT giving any advice, because you don't give any advice worth any thing.

krystaleviolette & barbie, NEITHER one of you have any children of your own. If there IS a higher power, you never will. But if you do, krystaleviolette, come back in a few years after you have a child with your husband and he finally gets fed up and leaves you. If you are THIS controlling with a child that you have NO LEGAL RIGHTS TO, god help your husband when you do have one of your own. I'll bet the farm you won't still be pushing for no child support and 50/50 custody.

barbie, when your bf gets fed up with YOU, you will be going out of your way to make sure he has to pay every single penny you can squeeze out of him and you know it. You are mean, self centered and vindictive to say the least. You are trying to do everything in your power to screw over an INNOCENT CHILD all because her mother had the nerve to have a child with YOUR boyfriend.

So until EITHER one of you have any sort of FAMILY LAW experience of YOUR OWN or even a family of your own for that matter, stop trying to pass off your personal feelings on ONE PARTICULAR CASE as any kind of fact. The people that come here for HELP, need nothing from either of you.

For your information my relationship with my husband is ROCK SOLID. We have been in love since the first moment we met 10/28/2000 at about 545 pm. We are best friends and share similar points of view on most things. The things we don't agree in, we always find a mature way to discuss. So the only thing that will take my husband is death.

I am not mean or vindicative. It is the grandmother that has taken the child away from both parents. Not my fault mom doesn't fight to get her own son back. I am not trying to take any of her time away. I would be more than happy to do 50/50 split with her. In fact my husband is trying to get his son back from his mother. I am just trying to support and help him, but double checking the legal stuff so the wool doesn't get pulled over his eyes again.

I agree with you animals vs children....children win....but that is not the issue here.

You should stick to NOT giving any advice, because you don't give any advice worth any thing.
No, my advice was just fine. You don't like to hear the truth. You need extra money? Have you sat and added up how much the few bucks a week you spend on pet food adds up to over a year? Even $10 a week equals $520 a year. Your husband, if he and you learn a different system of "time management", can make some changes to earn extra money. I have said it before, and I will say it again...it is a matter of priorities. If neither of you want to make the sacrifices, then fine, learn to live with the status quo. Just stop *****ing about it.

Just because you don't like to hear the truth, instead of hearing that everybody feels sorry for you and lets you keep whining, doesn't mean that the advice was bad. It means that you don't want to consider it.

One more thing, to make this very clear. You can HELP your husband try to fulfill his goals of getting his son back, but you cannot do anything yourself. Of course, in order to help, you need to find a different solution. Obviously, what you are doing is not working.

You are the one that said that your animals are family pets and that includes your stepson.

Hmmm...are you the lady I saw intentionaly run over dog saturday? Cause you sure sound like it. Animals are creatures of God too. They are family pets which include my stepson and they are not causing us not to have him. A few dollars a week for pet food is not going to make a difference enough to get a better lawyer. And we have a lawyer and the reason I am working so much OT is when he says I need more money or hey we need money for social study we won't be scraping as hard to come up with it.

The only suggestions I got was spend more money on a attorney and we have an attorney. We have spend money. I am working OT. A lot of OT. My husband has a regular full time job which will not pay OT plus the full time job of taking care of the house and family. If I am missing a real legal suggestion, please point it out.

Got to go WORK.

I'm sorry something about that line doesn't sound right. :confused:

I'm sorry something about that line doesn't sound right. :confused:

For clarification
The pets belong to my FAMILY thus they belong to my stepson as well because he is part of the family.

No, my advice was just fine. You don't like to hear the truth. You need extra money? Have you sat and added up how much the few bucks a week you spend on pet food adds up to over a year? Even $10 a week equals $520 a year. Your husband, if he and you learn a different system of "time management", can make some changes to earn extra money. I have said it before, and I will say it again...it is a matter of priorities. If neither of you want to make the sacrifices, then fine, learn to live with the status quo. Just stop *****ing about it.

Just because you don't like to hear the truth, instead of hearing that everybody feels sorry for you and lets you keep whining, doesn't mean that the advice was bad. It means that you don't want to consider it.

One more thing, to make this very clear. You can HELP your husband try to fulfill his goals of getting his son back, but you cannot do anything yourself. Of course, in order to help, you need to find a different solution. Obviously, what you are doing is not working.

You are the one that said that your animals are family pets and that includes your stepson.

Well occasionally the dogs have pups we sell so that makes up for the pet food bill anyway. The animals are not hurting as financially. So how is that rying to help us save money? I wasn't asking for financial advice, I was asking for legal advice.

I don't want anyone to feel sorry or pity or whatever. This situation sucks, and is not fair, but I rather work on fixing it than spend any more time on this mom vs stepmom debate yall provoked me into. I can't turn back time, I have to move forward and my family needs to move forward. What I want is some concrete information. Like....is can we sue for libel and slander for the lies? How can she say he is abandoning his child when he always picks him up for visitation? does any one know similar cases in TX? Any legal strategies? Is it legal to make dad pay CS and not mom? Is it legal to make anyone pay CS in the summer when the time is all split equally? I told my husband to pay the CS, but he is not...because THEY haven't garnished his checks, what is the worse that can happen? Its a rather complicated case and I want to know we are doing everything legally to try to end this BS, move on with our lives, and have some peace.

Well occasionally the dogs have pups we sell so that makes up for the pet food bill anyway. The animals are not hurting as financially. So how is that rying to help us save money? I wasn't asking for financial advice, I was asking for legal advice.

I don't want anyone to feel sorry or pity or whatever. This situation sucks, and is not fair, but I rather work on fixing it than spend any more time on this mom vs stepmom debate yall provoked me into. What I want is some concrete information. Like....is can we sue for libel and slander for the lies? How can she say he is abandoning his child when he always picks him up for visitation? does any one know similar cases in TX? Any legal strategies? Its a rather complicated case and I want to know we are doing everything legally to try to end this BS, move on with our lives, and have some peace.
Libel and slander are two different things and are VERY hard to prove in court. It would most likely be a waste of your time and money.

Agin, keep an ongoing record of every time the son is with his father. Document EVERYTHING. For example, if y'all take him out to McD's, keep the reciept. Document.

For that matter, keep a record of every phone call, every card sent, every gift sent, every instance of contact.

Anything else in particular?

My hubby recently reunited himself with his bio father, so we now have extended family in the area. Can that be a change of circumstance?


Was it legal for the judge to say there is no change in circumstance, so we can't change custody, but we can order CS. If there was no change in circumstances shouldn't there be no change to CS?

Last time they said they can not discuss anything before the last court date. Does that mean Grandma must be saying my hubby abandoned his son since the last court date or is there any way for her to go back? My hubby never abandoned his son, just trying to see how she might be lieing so I can find a way to prove.

My hubby recently reunited himself with his bio father, so we now have extended family in the area. Can that be a change of circumstance?


Was it legal for the judge to say there is no change in circumstance, so we can't change custody, but we can order CS. If there was no change in circumstances shouldn't there be no change to CS?

How is reuniting with his father a change in circumstance? :confused:

Going from no extended family to having extended family in the area. What are they looking for in a change of circumstance? This law seems to be hurting us because we need to prove we are stable, yet we need to prove something has changed? We move last year. Does that count?

Going from no extended family to having extended family in the area. What are they looking for in a change of circumstance? This law seems to be hurting us because we need to prove we are stable, yet we need to prove something has changed? We move last year. Does that count?

Dad meeting grandpa is not a change of circumstance.

For your information my relationship with my husband is ROCK SOLID. We have been in love since the first moment we met 10/28/2000 at about 545 pm. We are best friends and share similar points of view on most things. The things we don't agree in, we always find a mature way to discuss. So the only thing that will take my husband is death.

Find me any divorced person that DIDN'T feel that way during their marraige. Most people don't plan on their marraige end anymore then you do. But, they are divorced anyway. Why don't we put it to a vote?

For everyone out there that has ever gone through a divorce, how many of you were ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE your marraige would last forever at some point during the marraige?

Find me any divorced person that DIDN'T feel that way during their marraige. Most people don't plan on their marraige end anymore then you do. But, they are divorced anyway. Why don't we put it to a vote?

For everyone out there that has ever gone through a divorce, how many of you were ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE your marraige would last forever at some point during the marraige?


I would find that poll interesting...

But we really do have an above average relationship. We spend every waking minute together that we are not working. He drives me to work, takes care of everything at the house, runs errands together....

I would find that poll interesting...

But we really do have an above average relationship. We spend every waking minute together that we are not working. He drives me to work, takes care of everything at the house, runs errands together....

That is the same way MANY divorced people spent at least PART of their marrainge too. Yet, they are STILL divorced now.

I would find that poll interesting...

But we really do have an above average relationship. We spend every waking minute together that we are not working. He drives me to work, takes care of everything at the house, runs errands together....
See, I knew he had time to work a second job. :) Maybe YOU could take care of the house and errands while he is working.

That is the same way MANY divorced people spent at least PART of their marrainge too. Yet, they are STILL divorced now.


Well I won't let that happen

See, I knew he had time to work a second job. :) Maybe YOU could take care of the house and errands while he is working.

Like I said I don't want financial advice. We NEED time together so we don't end up divorced. Doubling up by spending time with errands kills 2 birds with one stone.

And the measley part time pay wouldn't make up for gas and commute time any way......

Like I said I don't want financial advice. We NEED time together so we don't end up divorced. Doubling up by spending time with errands kills 2 birds with one stone.

And the measley part time pay wouldn't make up for gas and commute time any way......
You NEED to grow up. You are not 15 needing to spend every waking moment together. As a matter of fact NEEDING to spend every moment together is a sign of insecurity in a relationship.

You NEED to grow up. You are not 15 needing to spend every waking moment together. As a matter of fact NEEDING to spend every moment together is a sign of insecurity in a relationship.

Actually no, if one of us needed that then that would mean I'm 15. I am very secure in my relationship. WE choose to spend our time together. WE want to spend OUR time together because WE value our relationship and our family time. It is a priority in our lives. My hubby is more than welcome to spend time with friends or whatever but he chooses to spend it with me and I choose to spend my time with him. It is exactly why I am married and so many of the people on here are divorced.

I find your "advice" very amusing.

Gee, barbie, if I expected my ex to work extra so I could take his money, I would have had him in court a loooong time ago. I expect her and her husband to do something to be able to afford competent legal counsel to help resolve thier mess. If she doesn't want to do anything except whine, complain and try to come up with some worthless excuse WHY they can't change anything, then she can stop wasting her and her husband's time. Speaking of a waste of time.... Why are you still here? Don't you have anything else to do? Like file your lawsuit?


Money does not neccessarily equal competent

Yes I just "love" how they analyze every penny we make and don't make, but they get to stay at home, get their nails and hair done, go shopping, go to the tanning booths and starbucks, etc. The last time I did any of that was when I was single. God forbid I should want I little livelihood in my life.

Just to let you know I am naturally tanned! :rolleyes:

And analying every dollar spent made..uh i recall you're the person asking how to get help for free. You know nothing is for free and if you were so gung ho about getting custody of your step son from his grandmother you'd make it happen...working two jobs or whatever it took to do. But instead you whine and whine and claim household pets are children too. Good grief.

And they CLAIM not to be jealous .....
Why would I be jealous? I have my kids. And, I was never moronic enough to mistake a dismissal of a court reporter with signing over custody. I can read and comprehend. I do not have financial worries, and I live in TX, so I really don't need to worry about going to a tanning bed. I can just step outside. I am happy, healthy, married for almost 10 years and going strong, have 4 wonderful, beautiful, smart, funny children, and virtually no worries at this point in my life. I get to stay home, you're right. Why would I envy you worrying about if you will have a job tomorrow? I get to watch my kids grow up. I don't need to get my hair done. I am a natural blonde. But I do love to shop. But, since the ex doesn't pay his support, you can't accuse me of spending my cs money. If anything, I would think that y'all that don't believe in support would like the fact that I am not dragging him into court to raise his support and trying to destroy his life. Of course, he managed to do that all on his own. But, why add to it? That would just be petty. So what was it that I had to be jealous of again?

PS My husband goes to starbucks every morning, before he goes to work, to get hot chocolate with extra whip cream for me. Yep, I love it.

Money does not neccessarily equal competent
no, but you get what you pay for. Cheap= cheap work. Economics 101.

Like I said I don't want financial advice. We NEED time together so we don't end up divorced. Doubling up by spending time with errands kills 2 birds with one stone.

And the measley part time pay wouldn't make up for gas and commute time any way......
Are these or are these not your words? Keep in mind that I simply clicked on the quote button.

Just to let you know I am naturally tanned! :rolleyes:

And analying every dollar spent made..uh i recall you're the person asking how to get help for free. You know nothing is for free and if you were so gung ho about getting custody of your step son from his grandmother you'd make it happen...working two jobs or whatever it took to do. But instead you whine and whine and claim household pets are children too. Good grief.


I am trying to help my family become healthier and happier, not give my husband a heart attack like yall seem intent to do with yours. Animals are proven to reduce stress and make people live longer. God forbid we should want to reduce stress.

By the way my hubby got a real good laugh from the work a second job and get rid of the animal suggestions.

The lawyer we have now is doing a decent job, but I still want to verify stuff which consider after what has happened in the past is a good idea. I don't trust any lawyer whether he cost $10 or $10 million. They just look after they own interests, not their clients.

And hell after listening your yall maybe I can start predicting what my either mother in law might be up to next.

And I work 60 plus hours a week so I think that is more than enough to say I care.

I am trying to help my family become healthier and happier, not give my husband a heart attack like yall seem intent to do with yours. Animals are proven to reduce stress and make people live longer. God forbid we should want to reduce stress.

By the way my hubby got a real good laugh from the work a second job and get rid of the animal suggestions.

The lawyer we have now is doing a decent job, but I still want to verify stuff which consider after what has happened in the past is a good idea. I don't trust any lawyer whether he cost $10 or $10 million. They just look after they own interests, not their clients.

And hell after listening your yall maybe I can start predicting what my either mother in law might be up to next.

And I work 60 plus hours a week so I think that is more than enough to say I care.

I'm glad your husband got a good laugh at getting a second job. I guess he can't complain about his situation then and neither can you.

That is the same way MANY divorced people spent at least PART of their marrainge too. Yet, they are STILL divorced now.


Well observing most women I disagree with you. Its all about "me" with most women and most men get fed up with that. Why do think I choose to spend time with my logical, sane husband....instead of cheating whores known as girlfriends.

What, is he 65? If your husband has such a delicate constitution, maybe he shouldn't take on raising the child. Children can be very stressful, you know. Not quite as easy to care for as an animal. I mean, you can't feed them, water them and then kick them outside or lock them in a cage. You can't keep them on a leash. And they tend to have other goals in life other than pleasing you so you will scratch their ears.

I'm glad your husband got a good laugh at getting a second job. I guess he can't complain about his situation then and neither can you.

He got a good laugh because it makes NO practical sense at all.

What, is he 65? If your husband has such a delicate constitution, maybe he shouldn't take on raising the child. Children can be very stressful, you know. Not quite as easy to care for as an animal. I mean, you can't feed them, water them and then kick them outside or lock them in a cage. You can't keep them on a leash. And they tend to have other goals in life other than pleasing you so you will scratch their ears.


Death seems to run early in his family with the exception of his mother. He is quite capable of taking care of his son. The only thing that stresses him out is that someone was able to steal his son, and the courts seem more concerned with protecting themselves not the child. The rest of our lives our wonderful. :)

He got a good laugh because it makes NO practical sense at all.

I forgot...i am chatting with someone who believes this is a utopian society :rolleyes:

Let him continue to laugh and you continue to work for grandma. While us golddigging mamas (and grandmamas in your case )sit home and wait for the cs to roll in.

You started off on point, but pretty much showed how you really feel and are. It's a shame. Now run along and play with your Barbie (pun intended) :p

Well observing most women I disagree with you. Its all about "me" with most women and most men get fed up with that. Why do think I choose to spend time with my logical, sane husband....instead of cheating whores known as girlfriends.
You refer to your friends as "cheating whores"? If so, you spend all of your time with your husband because nobody will have anything to do with you. God, you're toxic.

You refer to your friends as "cheating whores"? If so, you spend all of your time with your husband because nobody will have anything to do with you. God, you're toxic.


I speak the truth, woman are much more decietful than men. Whoops I let the secret out!

I spend all my time with my husband because it makes me happy.

These women are exactly the reason child abandonment occurs. The man can't handle all the degradation these women cause and it is much better to try to save themselves so they can really help the kids when they grow up instead of having themselves be beaten down emotionally to nothing but a mere pulp of a person.

Oh yes......Let me tell you the last time I went to court they asked me lots of questions on MY income which should be none of their ****ing business....but the woman judge allowed it.

Because you married into debt hello!!!!!!!!! For better or worse Richer or Poorer...did you forget those damn lines???

If you were really concerned with your stepson's well being you would fight for what you know is right and you aren't doing that.

Because you married into debt hello!!!!!!!!! For better or worse Richer or Poorer...did you forget those damn lines???


You make no sense.

These women are exactly the reason child abandonment occurs. The man can't handle all the degradation these women cause and it is much better to try to save themselves so they can really help the kids when they grow up instead of having themselves be beaten down emotionally to nothing but a mere pulp of a person.

Oh yes......Let me tell you the last time I went to court they asked me lots of questions on MY income which should be none of their ****ing business....but the woman judge allowed it.
Well, it is if your husband is purposely underemployed so he can avoid paying his cs. Why don't you ask for a different judge? Seriously. Your attorney can enter a motion to request a different judge.

Well, it is if your husband is purposely underemployed so he can avoid paying his cs. Why don't you ask for a different judge? Seriously. Your attorney can enter a motion to request a different judge.


She was a new job and thus no one knew she would unfair. There is a reason she didn't get reelected.....we are not the only ones that have had problems with her.

And round 4 is going to be a jury trial......

I speak the truth, woman are much more decietful than men. Whoops I let the secret out!

I spend all my time with my husband because it makes me happy.
You spend all of your time with your husband because you are threatened by other women. Not all women are deceitful and untrustworthy. They say we dislike the traits in others that we most dislike about ourselves. If you don't like other women, try looking in the mirror. You don't like yourself. And that is probably the saddest thing you have revealed.

Well, it is if your husband is purposely underemployed so he can avoid paying his cs. Why don't you ask for a different judge? Seriously. Your attorney can enter a motion to request a different judge.

She's not going to get it. She feels that this man she married should not be paying what he's payin due to being duped by his mother. And feels that she is a better mother to this child than the bm and gm. She probably fussed at the judge for having her income imputed in the equation. :rolleyes:

ahhhhhhh the jury trials are the best. ;)

Well, it is if your husband is purposely underemployed so he can avoid paying his cs. Why don't you ask for a different judge? Seriously. Your attorney can enter a motion to request a different judge.


What does MY income have to do with his employment?

He has been at the same job since 2000. He isn't trying to hide anything. And I still don't understand how it can be said nothing has changed, so lets order CS.

You make no sense.

And apparently you can't read! WTF? Your husband has an obligation with you or without you.

ahhhhhhh the jury trials are the best. ;)


and why is that so?

She's not going to get it. She feels that this man she married should not be paying what he's payin due to being duped by his mother. And feels that she is a better mother to this child than the bm and gm. She probably fussed at the judge for having her income imputed in the equation. :rolleyes:
The problem is that I agree. I don't believe the gm should have the child if the father is a fit parent. I just don't agree with kv's attitude and statements. I understand anger and bitterness, but until and unless this situation gets fixed, then yes her husband should (and from what I understand, does) pay support. I will ask again, because it got lost a long way back....Why was the father ordered to pay support, but not the mother? Were her rights terminated? From what I understand, the mom and dad just lost CUSTODY, not their parental rights. Kv, can you clear this up?

She's not going to get it. She feels that this man she married should not be paying what he's payin due to being duped by his mother. And feels that she is a better mother to this child than the bm and gm. She probably fussed at the judge for having her income imputed in the equation. :rolleyes:


Yall are all for the children, well he is his mothers child, shouldn't she care about him?

No I didn't fuss at all about my income being brought to attention, but I do find it strange that it was brought up at all.

And I don't poison his lungs and ears with cigarette smoke. I don't let him get hit(yes his BM did that). I pay him attention. I don't talk down to him. I don't drink around him. Don't even get me started on what my hubby saw BM do when they were together.......

The problem is that I agree. I don't believe the gm should have the child if the father is a fit parent. I just don't agree with kv's attitude and statements. I understand anger and bitterness, but until and unless this situation gets fixed, then yes her husband should (and from what I understand, does) pay support. I will ask again, because it got lost a long way back....Why was the father ordered to pay support, but not the mother? Were her rights terminated? From what I understand, the mom and dad just lost CUSTODY, not their parental rights. Kv, can you clear this up?


Because GM only requested dad pay support. BM doesn't work. If it were reversed they would make her get a job......

BM was hardly even involved in the last court battle. She never sent back her discovery, so my understand is she shouldn't have been allowed to speak in court but they did let her. She seems to not care where the child lives as long as its not with my hubby from what I can see.

The problem is that I agree. I don't believe the gm should have the child if the father is a fit parent. I just don't agree with kv's attitude and statements. I understand anger and bitterness, but until and unless this situation gets fixed, then yes her husband should (and from what I understand, does) pay support. I will ask again, because it got lost a long way back....Why was the father ordered to pay support, but not the mother? Were her rights terminated? From what I understand, the mom and dad just lost CUSTODY, not their parental rights. Kv, can you clear this up?


I have seen too many women "run over" a good man. When I see the reversed situation, my opinion will change.

The current agreement is a joint managing conservatorship between the 3 parties with grandma the primary.

What does MY income have to do with his employment?

He has been at the same job since 2000. He isn't trying to hide anything. And I still don't understand how it can be said nothing has changed, so lets order CS.
Change in circumstance refers to the living conditions of the child. It does not have anything to do with cs. CS and custody/visitation are two seperate issues. So, no, your husband's meeting his extended family does not effect the circumstances of the child. Nor does it have ANYTHING to do with CS. Change in circumstances would include: proven abuse, extreme neglect, detrimental living conditions, documented drug and alcohol abuse, etc. in the CHILD'S environment. It has nothing to do with your home. You could move into a palace, but since the child is not living there, it does not change HIS living conditions, at all. That is not to say that I think his son should be living with the gm, that is as long as your husband is fit to raise his child. I don't care how rich the gm is. Does that explain it a little better? Don't have to think it is fair, just what is.

You are all seriously selfish *****es. If anyone remembers this wasn't about her husband supporting the child he loves and will always support the best he can. Its about the fact that another selfish ***** walked into their lives and stole his son away from them. These are good people who love this child and don't want to see him messed up like so many other people are these day. And instead of seeing that all you see is the fact that she is the other woman, the dreaded step mom. Take out your aggression on her because your exs are no where to be found. I'll tell you where they are at. They are with their new women and so happy to be far far away from you and the life they don't want with you.


Think about it this way, if someone took your child, said lies about you, your husband, and most importantly the child, and then wanted money from you....how would you feel? My husband is very upset to say the least. And this is MY family. I hate seeing them both in pain because.........of this BS. I don't want my stepson to go years without seeing his father like I did.

You are all seriously selfish *****es. If anyone remembers this wasn't about her husband supporting the child he loves and will always support the best he can. Its about the fact that another selfish ***** walked into their lives and stole his son away from them. These are good people who love this child and don't want to see him messed up like so many other people are these day. And instead of seeing that all you see is the fact that she is the other woman, the dreaded step mom. Take out your aggression on her because your exs are no where to be found. I'll tell you where they are at. They are with their new women and so happy to be far far away from you and the life they don't want with you.
Well, before you start spouting off your uneducated opinions, you might want to actually read what I posted, froot loop.

Change in circumstance refers to the living conditions of the child. It does not have anything to do with cs. CS and custody/visitation are two seperate issues. So, no, your husband's meeting his extended family does not effect the circumstances of the child. Nor does it have ANYTHING to do with CS. Change in circumstances would include: proven abuse, extreme neglect, detrimental living conditions, documented drug and alcohol abuse, etc. in the CHILD'S environment. It has nothing to do with your home. You could move into a palace, but since the child is not living there, it does not change HIS living conditions, at all. That is not to say that I think his son should be living with the gm, that is as long as your husband is fit to raise his child. I don't care how rich the gm is. Does that explain it a little better? Don't have to think it is fair, just what is.


Well how can one prove that things are bad there without the child being allowed to speak in court? Higher a private detective? What about the best interest of the child being the most important deciding factor?

Change in circumstance refers to the living conditions of the child. It does not have anything to do with cs. CS and custody/visitation are two seperate issues. So, no, your husband's meeting his extended family does not effect the circumstances of the child. Nor does it have ANYTHING to do with CS. Change in circumstances would include: proven abuse, extreme neglect, detrimental living conditions, documented drug and alcohol abuse, etc. in the CHILD'S environment. It has nothing to do with your home. You could move into a palace, but since the child is not living there, it does not change HIS living conditions, at all. That is not to say that I think his son should be living with the gm, that is as long as your husband is fit to raise his child. I don't care how rich the gm is. Does that explain it a little better? Don't have to think it is fair, just what is.


But don't they have to prove change in circumstance to get change in CS?

I have seen too many women "run over" a good man. When I see the reversed situation, my opinion will change.

The current agreement is a joint managing conservatorship between the 3 parties with grandma the primary.
Well, that is easy. Try all of the men, like barbie's bf, that want to abandon their children, because, hey, he was just horny. He didn't want a kid, so maybe he can file a lawsuit to get out of supporting the baby. How about Ceara's ex? How about my ex?

Well how can one prove that things are bad there without the child being allowed to speak in court? Higher a private detective? What about the best interest of the child being the most important deciding factor?
How old is the child?

Well, that is easy. Try all of the men, like barbie's bf, that want to abandon their children, because, hey, he was just horny. He didn't want a kid, so maybe he can file a lawsuit to get out of supporting the baby. How about Ceara's ex? How about my ex?


When I say see I mean experience. I know my mother, my mother in law, and Chaney's mother treat their own.......

My lunch is over.....chat later.

But don't they have to prove change in circumstance to get change in CS?
NOt if his cs was not set at the maximum to begin with.

NOt if his cs was not set at the maximum to begin with.


Do you think that is fair?

How old is the child?


will turn 11 on 7/17

another question

When Grandma didn't let us pick him up last year for father's day and one of our summer weeks.......the police wouldn't file a report. All we wanted was a report that we tried to pick him up. They said it was there perogative to file or not file. Our local police department said they had to do it. Our local dept wouldn't do it because it wasn't their jurisdiction. Which dept was right? Can we still file for contempt of court or do we just need to bring it up in court?

another question

When Grandma didn't let us pick him up last year for father's day and one of our summer weeks.......the police wouldn't file a report. All we wanted was a report that we tried to pick him up. They said it was there perogative to file or not file. Our local police department said they had to do it. Our local dept wouldn't do it because it wasn't their jurisdiction. Which dept was right? Can we still file for contempt of court or do we just need to bring it up in court?

I have already given you all of your legal options on this case via private messages. Trying to argue the overall validity of the child support system does not change anything.

While I think that your husband is getting screwed in THIS case, I do not and never will agree that child support is bad. Your husband is in the MINORITY. Most cases do NOT turn out like his. Most of them are more like barbies boyfriend. They don't want the kid, so they think they shouldn't pay.

By siding with barbie and insulting posters that actually KNOW how the law works and the best way to use it to your advantage, you are only hurting yourself. It is very unlikely that ANYONE with actual knowledge will ever be willing to help you, even if you have a valid problem, becuase of your attitude on this thread. I could find a perfect, can't lose, solution for your husband's case tomorrow and I would be very reluctant to tell you since you obviously don't appreciate any of the help you have gotten so far.

I have already given you all of your legal options on this case via private messages. Trying to argue the overall validity of the child support system does not change anything.

While I think that your husband is getting screwed in THIS case, I do not and never will agree that child support is bad. Your husband is in the MINORITY. Most cases do NOT turn out like his. Most of them are more like barbies boyfriend. They don't want the kid, so they think they shouldn't pay.

By siding with barbie and insulting posters that actually KNOW how the law works and the best way to use it to your advantage, you are only hurting yourself. It is very unlikely that ANYONE with actual knowledge will ever be willing to help you, even if you have a valid problem, becuase of your attitude on this thread. I could find a perfect, can't lose, solution for your husband's case tomorrow and I would be very reluctant to tell you since you obviously don't appreciate any of the help you have gotten so far.

Yes I appreciate the information you said in the PM. I think you you the law very well. I still think the law is unfair.

I don't agree with everything Barbie is saying.

I agree sometimes they are to strict with fathers, I know a few of my guy friends that have children that are good fathers and pay a lot of support and i know in my situation that my sons father pays and rarely sees his son. I left the visitation open for him to choose and he has him 2 days a week for 4 hours at a time. And has a new girlfriend that all they do is go out an party on the weekends. But the point to this is if you don't want children and you don't want to worry about child support, GUYS- keep it in your pants, and GIRLS- keep you leggs shut. There are all different types of birth control us them. And if you don't want to deal with CS and kids don't get involved with someone who has a kid and don't try to get involved with what's right and wrong because if it's not you child it's none of your business!