I have read how much you feel a father should have to pay, at what point do you think it is enough? Do feel that a father should not have anything? That his life should just be over? I home is not a just a material item or a some kind of toy. Everyone should have a home! After reading some of your post, I actualy feel bad for you! I can't help but to think of how horrible some man must have treated you to make you this bitter...

I am not bitter. But here is some of what my ex has done. First off, not all fathers believe child support should be paid at all. My ex has not paid a dime in over 4 years. He has not called or seen his children in almost a year. And when he did see them, it was very unstable. He would call and tell the boys he would pick them up on Friday, and just not ever show up. I set with my 6 year old in the kitchen floor and cried with him when he came to me with tears in his eyes and asked me why his daddy didnt love him and want him anymore. Now, you tell me seeing your child go through that kind of hurt at 6 years old wouldnt make you good and damn pissed off at the system. ANd beieve me, I can see your side of it too. My husband now pays $800 a month to a woman who never spends anytime with her kids and doesnt even buy her children clothing. ANd she still has the nerve to call and ask for money. SOme women are just greedy, dont think that we are all in that category. Some of us know how great it would be to just get $50 a month.

I have read how much you feel a father should have to pay, at what point do you think it is enough? Do feel that a father should not have anything? That his life should just be over? I home is not a just a material item or a some kind of toy. Everyone should have a home! After reading some of your post, I actualy feel bad for you! I can't help but to think of how horrible some man must have treated you to make you this bitter...


I don't know who you think is bitter, I know some people are. But there are different situations for everyone. I personally don't think that any man is burdened so much by child support that he can't support himself UNLESS he is paying an amount that is incorrect due to a change in his circumstance. No state is going to force a non-custodial parent to pay so much that they themselves have to become dependent on the government. I have gone over my state's cs table a million times and it is fair.

For me, my ex blames me for his poor financial situation and says he can hardly afford to live and that I've bankrupted him because of child support, and (like you mentioned) blamed me for him not being able to get a home loan, etc. The truth is, he has a big bar tab every weekend, his new wife doesn't want to work (hell neither do I, but I do), he buys new cars (on credit), max's out his credit cards and has various other bad spending habits. He IS poor, he IS in debt, His debt-to-income ratio is so bad he can't qualify for a home loan. Non of these factors has anything to do with his child support, yet he constantly calls me the greedy-money hungry B**** because he still has to pay a chunk of money each month for child support and doesn't have anything left for himself. If he didn't rack up his credit cards, saved his money, downsized his cars and spent less on non-necessities he'd be able to pay child support easy and have plenty to live on. I realize that's just my situation, but I've been told by my attorney that child support will never be an amount that will cause a non-custodial parent to be poverty stricken - its all thier other spending that causes them to suffer. So I get tired of hearing that a non-custodial parent can't afford to live after child support, when it's only one of the many bills they've created for themselves. Why not blame someone else? Or better yet, why not take responsibility.

I have read how much you feel a father should have to pay, at what point do you think it is enough? Do feel that a father should not have anything? That his life should just be over? I home is not a just a material item or a some kind of toy. Everyone should have a home! After reading some of your post, I actualy feel bad for you! I can't help but to think of how horrible some man must have treated you to make you this bitter...

Thanks for calling me out. :D And the correct name is Soul Provider Mom - actually meaning SOLE!!! The only ONE! Get it?

How much a father should pay? In my case - I feel that if the courts establish an order based upon incomes/child expenses - then that's what you pay. No questions, no whinning. He doesnt pay what I FEEL HE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY. The courts decided that. I feel that a "father" (If you'd call him that - he hasn't seen him in 5 years) should get what he makes goals for. I worked full time, AND went to college to get my degree WHILE providing for my son. This man jumps jobs works under the table and still complains the order is too high. Not to mention - he STILL makes more than me. If you married someone who wants to sit around and make babies and be trash - then that's what you deserve. People make their own choices and they have to live with it. I've made a BAD choice by making a baby with someone who didn't mean anything to me - and I live with that....but I HAVE THE BEST SON IN THE WORLD & I wouldn't trade him for anything!!!

I don't need your pity party or for you to feel bad for me. I need educated responses to my questions - and it appears you have none for me. Soul - Less? You can call me that at this point I have every right to be when I have a man who has deserted his son for NO REASON and all I ask is to be compenstated for his HALF of the responsibility. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

.....And BTW - NO MAN has treated me badly for me to be bitter. I've had good relationships that just ended because we were two different people. But what I am BITTER about is the excuses for non-payment of court ordered child support.

Thanks shedo for shedding some light. Some people just don't get it.

~peace~

As a family law attorney, I can never quite comprehend why men think it is okay to bring children into this world, want to visit them, want to claim them, but somehow or other think they don't need money for food, clothing, diapers, much less a roof over their heads.

The legislature in every state in this country has established child support guidelines. Women did not. Legislature did. You got a problem, take it up with the right people, and don't call women soulless because they expect men to act like responsible adults and pay the child support for their children they have been ordered to pay.

If she won't let you see the child, it is no reason not to pay. File a motion to enforce against her. The judge can put her in jail for not letting you see your child -- just like the judge can put you in jail for not paying child support.

And, for the record, yeah, men need a roof over their heads. But why the holy heck don't you think your child deserves the same thing????

Lastly, in Texas, the family code defines it as a right, a duty, and a privilege to support your child. Let your child know you LOVE it enough to help SUPPORT IT.

IF YOU DO.

And, if you don't, remember, nonpayment of child support IS a ground to terminate your parental rights.

Sharon Middleton

Would you think it would be fair if the shoe was other foot? I am both CP and Non-CP. I pay $960 a month for CS to my youngest child's mother yet recieve nothing for my oldest two. I pay over 33% of my income for one child. His mother rarely ever lets me see him and always is rude and refers to me as a dead beat. Everything she has done and is doing is has been backed up in court. All she had to do was lie. I do not care what lies you tell each other CP, visitation, etc. is not fair, unbias, or in the childs best interest as the laws are writen.

Both parents should split visitation and expenses. ALL resposibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise, has a bias opinion. Children need and have the right to have both parents in there life. CS should not be based on how much money someone makes but on what it costs to raise your child.

Ironically, Mike, I represent more men than women, many seeking custody of their kids or with custody of their kids. Many women go to jail for nonpayment of child support, too.

I do know that Florida has very high child support, based on gross earnings rather than net earnings. That is not typical, but as I said before, that is a legislative issue. That is not a judicial issue. That is not a fairness issue. If you don't like it, lobby to get it changed.

In any event, if you are paying 1/3 of your money as child support, seems to me you still have 2/3 of your money.

NO, child support should not be based on what a child needs. It is calculated in every state on a formula percentage of earnings. YOu just lucked into a state with higher than average support.

And what is this about 'Fair'? Haven't you figured out yet that nothing in life is fair. Ask your child. Was it fair for you two sexed up goofballs to bring a child into this world? Is it fair for you to have the balls to gripe about paying support that a court has ordered you to pay for your child? You just plain and simple don't want her to get your money.

What if the cards were turned for you? What if you were the custodial parent? Do you honestly want us to think you would not want support? You would not need support? Oh, get a grip. We all know better.

Frankly, men are usually lots meaner than women when women get behind in support. They throw women in jail at the drop of a hat. They withold visitations without batting an eye. No, it is not right. But, what would you do? Can you honestly say you would be better?

Again, you have legal remedies regarding the issue on visitation. If you think your support is too high, you can calculate it from the charts in the family code for your state. If it is too high, you can ask for a reduction. But watch out. If you earn more now than when child support was ordered you could pay more.

In Texas, you would pay 20% of your net earnings for the first child. If you had another child elsewhere to whom you had an obligation to pay, the per centage would drop to 17.5% each. I think I recazll from a case where a family moved from Florida that their percentage is 30 or 33% per child from gross. Check the code.

You don't like it? Too bad. Next time, keep your pants zipped and don't make a baby, or have a vasectomy. If you are not responsible enough to care for your child's basic needs, back off, Jack, don't have kids.

As an adult who was given up for adoption by parents who could not afford to raise me, as a mother of an adopted child, who as an adult has adopted two children through CPS, from parents who cared more for their crack habits than their kids needs, I really have no respect at all for men or women who elect -- yes, elect -- to spend their money on themselves to the NEGLECT of their innocent children. Your children did not ask to be conceived. They did not ask to be born. You OWE it to them to support them. Like I said before, suck it up, be a man, pay your support. If you're not willing to do that, you stand to have your parental rights terminated to this child. Have they already been terminated despite your 'desires'? Is that what is really burning you up? You wouldn't pay, the court terminated you and let a step-parent adopt, so now you have no rights to visit?

Maybe you can restore your relationship with your child at some point if you step up to the bat and take the responsibility you SHOULD HAVE TAKEN ALL ALONG. But, don't whine like a two year old begging candy at the grocery store because this has not gone your way. I tell my child support clients all the time, you keep your pecker in your pants, you don't get into this mess.

Sharon Middleton
Attorney at Law

Florida CS is based on the net combined incomes of both parents. Besides the normal taxes being deducted, the parent(s) that have support orders for other children or ex spouses also have those amounts deducted from gross pay, also any insurance paid for children not of that order are also deducted. This is one of the few ways that Fl. is very fair in setting CS.
The guidelines are set up with a guide of what the "statutory need" is for the combined incomes and number of children. Each parent is responsible for a percentage of the "statutory need" it is set up so that whichever parent has the larger income has the larger percentage of the "statutory need" applied to them. Percentages of insurance and childcare are added to the NCP's portion of the "statutory need" the total is the amount of CS the NCP must pay.

If a NCP is ordered to pay around $900.00 per month, it would mean that the combined incomes are considered high for Florida income standards, but is most likely based on the guidelines. A NCP whose child no longer needs daycare, or whose own income has decreased, can and should file for a modification ASAP.
Just a little info on Fl CS guidelines.
Xena :)

To skmiddleton1. Too bad you can't talk to my ex. He is behind $39,000. When we were married he would have a job and just because he didn't make his millions or whatever he was thinking he would just quit. No new job lined up. When we were about to seperate he finally told me after me badgering him that he thought I should make do with whatever he brought home. He needs a few more brain cells. This was a man who was very smart and could have been super successful. I am so glad I do not have to deal with him on a regular basis. He moved out of state so does not see the kids even for summer vacations. I feel bad for the kids but I can't force him to be a Dad.

I had to stop reading all together. I do not pay CS in Fl. I pay to Il. I have custody of my first 2 children and I do not recieve CS for them nor have I ever aplied for it! She does not work and I know all I would acomplish is to get her arrested. That does my children no good. So YES I can honestly say I would do better. It is my opinion both parents should split all costs and visitation as well as the rest of the many responsibilies of raising the children. I do suport my child! As I stated, even tho i believe it to be too much and complain. And if I was paying CS on my oldest 2 ,whom I have custody, it would lower my CS for my youngest. But as I have custody it does not change a thing. I am barely getting by and my oldest 2 are suffering due to unfair CS. I am not buying boats and RV's. If you would of read before you voiced your better then thou opinion maybee you would not apear to be the what was that word you used "MORON". I do take my responsibility as a parent very seriuosly. I can't help but to wonder how many lives you have ruined?

It is my opinion both parents should split all costs and visitation as well as the rest of the many responsibilies of raising the children. I do suport my child! As I stated, even tho i believe it to be too much and complain. And if I was paying CS on my oldest 2 ,whom I have custody, it would lower my CS for my youngest. But as I have custody it does not change a thing. I am barely getting by and my oldest 2 are suffering due to unfair CS.

Both parents should split visitation and expenses. ALL resposibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise, has a bias opinion. Children need and have the right to have both parents in there life. CS should not be based on how much money someone makes but on what it costs to raise your child.

To respond to some of your comments, The idea of the state ordering child support is exactly as you say "splitting all responsibility". The child support is figured on both parents incomes and then it is "split". Let's not forget that child support is owed to the child by both parents. The non-custodial parent pays thier amount to the custodial parent, the custodial parent essentially pays themselves for the child. For example, my ex owes me $600 per month for cs, but I too owe an amount of $580 per month - to myself for the kids. The difference is that I don't give myself a check.

CS can not be based on what it costs to raise a child because that is subject to opinion. Who's to say what kind of home to provide for the children, what type of schools to send them to, what kind of clothes to buy and what activities are appropriate? The costs could vary greatly depending on what lifestyle you choose for your child. So the idea to base cs on incomes is so that the child can recieve support for a lifestyle that the parents can afford.

If your child support is unfair - what's stopping you from having it modified? Sometimes it is unfair and there needs to be an adjustment.

If you feel you have the unfair end of the order then the fix is simple! Just give the non-cust. parent cust. and you pay what your state says in fair... I am willing to bet that (in most cases) you will not get an argument?!!! You see I am in a unique position. I am on both sides of our conversation, I seee the good and the bad from each side! I have never once seen where anything has truely been in the best interest of the children!!!

And it will never change as long as...

Parents use the courts for revenge...
Atourneys keep getting richer...
Lies go unpunished...
Parents use the kids for revenge...
The federal government does not set equal parent equal responsibility laws...
Atourneys have to be held acountable for thier actions...
Parents have to be held acountable for thier actions...

Well this is going to be a long list but you get the point!!!

The children are inocent but yet they still suffer the most!!! how is that right???

satmike,
I agree!! There is nothing more unfair in life , than having to pay CS and parent a child when the CP doesn't do her fair share financially and parent-wise... I am left always having to do to the 'right' thing and usually getting the short end of the stick..........all for the sake of my step-daughter...I have to suck up the phone calls stating that my stepdaughter needs new shoes or mom can't pay daycare so she needs us to do that...of course we do if we didn't my step daughter wouldn't have a place to go afterschool or new shoes to wear..............this of course usually comes within days of paying 525.00 of child support... if we didn't pay for school supplies she wouldn't have any...of course all of this is suppose to come out of CS and doesn't so we are left footing the bill for it...............to top it off she is the one who cheated and caused the divorce yet she get CP of the child and CS......... good thing she did cheat or I wouldn't have my husband or son......... No one said life was fair cause it ain't!

sounds about right to me too. on both sides of the fence here as well so i know what u are going through. when is it enough? when the noncustodial parent has no money left to live on and has cut out as much stuff as they possibly could just to be able to give their child everything that the cp isn't even though they are getting the money to do it. or when a judge does order so much child support and says that is fair u make enough to pay that much, but isn't in the household to see that it really isn't and that one family is strugglin just to make ends meet.
but on the other hand i do see where it is unfair like what the hell are the people at the child support agency doing to take care of the actual deadbeats? why aren't they being more aggressive with some of them and leave some of these ncp's alone that are trying their hardest to provide the best possible life for everyone involved. give me a break get your heads out of your asses and see what u are doing. quit punishing these innocent children because by going more after the ones that are paying and leaving the deadbeats alone u are doing more harm than good. making some of these actual non deadbeats feel like they need to take off and run the other way cause they can't get anywhere in life. one child is not more important than the other and dont matter which order they were born in or to who born to what matters is that they are here and one should not suffer so the other could have a better life.
i know i will prob get some heat for this one but it is true noone is better than anyone else and if some people would grow up and look at what they were doing to the children or if they actually had to walk on both sides of the court maybe then they would see what is actually goin on out there and help make the laws more just for both sides.

why aren't they being more aggressive with some of them and leave some of these ncp's alone that are trying their hardest to provide the best possible life for everyone involved. give me a break get your heads out of your asses and see what u are doing. quit punishing these innocent children because by going more after the ones that are paying and leaving the deadbeats alone u are doing more harm than good. making some of these actual non deadbeats feel like they need to take off and run the other way cause they can't get anywhere in life. one child is not more important than the other and dont matter which order they were born in or to who born to what matters is that they are here and one should not suffer so the other could have a better life.


AMEN! I get so mad when I hear that crap about the firstborn children getting considered first. That's like telling a dad that if he made a mistake in a previous marriage, but he finds a woman that he truly loves and wants to have children with later, then he is just pretty much screwed because those children won't be as important. I totally agree that an NCP's child support should be lowered for subsequent children. All the kids should get to be supported equally. If the NCP would have had those subsequent children with the first marriage (such as a larger family) they would be considered of equal importance, so what is the difference???

AMEN! I get so mad when I hear that crap about the firstborn children getting considered first. That's like telling a dad that if he made a mistake in a previous marriage, but he finds a woman that he truly loves and wants to have children with later, then he is just pretty much screwed because those children won't be as important. I totally agree that an NCP's child support should be lowered for subsequent children. All the kids should get to be supported equally. If the NCP would have had those subsequent children with the first marriage (such as a larger family) they would be considered of equal importance, so what is the difference???

I think I see what you're trying to say, but I have to tell you it really bothers me that you say "I get so mad when I hear that crap about the firstborn children getting considered first. That's like telling a dad that if he made a mistake in a previous marriage....." So what I hear you saying is that his first born isn't granted seniority and his first born is "a mistake". Wow - that's harsh! Maybe his marriage and decision to have a child was a mistake, but that mistake has now created a child - not a piece of garbage that can be disposed of like so many other things people are used to throwing away and getting new ones in our society.

why should the first born be granted senioritity? My husband has a daughter with his first wife and and son with me...why should in the eyes of the legal family system the daugther has more "rights" then his son? I don't fret about it too much... my son has everything that he could ever want and most important a mom and dad under the same roof...something his daughter will never have......

I can not believe you think stepmomin was saying the first child was a mistake! She was saying that all the children are equal and deserve to be supported equaly! Aparently you disagree? If you do then that just shows what kind of person you realy are!!!

Your right about the dead beats, my ex hasnt paid in over 4 years. He gets away with it because he will not provide permanent addresses, and works for cash so he cant be traced. When I ask the Child support office why they havent done anything, they simply tell me to find him for them and then they will do something. I mean, hell, they have the entire state system at their disposal, police, criminal records, you name it they can look into it but they want me to find him. Thats the problem, they are lazy. The reason they harass the ones that pay and try is because they dont have to work to find them. They are trying so they will provide addresses, employer info etc... makes their job easy if they leave it up to the Custodial Parent to locate a dead beat parent. The whole system is completely messed up. Her ein Texas they keep running these radio ads about how child support payments are a priviledge and you should want to pay it.... but what they should really say is please come to us becasue we wont try to find you. We are just an organization that pays our people to do nothing. And in fact I have been told by several CS office employees, Sorry theres nothing we can do for you. Not exactally what they advertise.

why should the first born be granted senioritity? My husband has a daughter with his first wife and and son with me...why should in the eyes of the legal family system the daugther has more "rights" then his son? I don't fret about it too much... my son has everything that he could ever want and most important a mom and dad under the same roof...something his daughter will never have......

I dont' think the older child should have more "rights". I just think it's sad that you feel the older child was a mistake and the system is causing your husband to be "screwed". Does it really matter how much money he is paying for her? Like you said, your son has everything he wants and his mom and dad, something his daughter will never have, so why make a comment like "I get so mad when I hear that crap about the firstborn children getting considered first". The poor girl doesn't have as much as your son, by your own admission. Why not just let her be considered first for child support and pay it happily knowing your doing what you can to make up for her dad not being able to be in her home. It just sounded like you are so mad that she might get a bigger piece of pie than your son. I am all for equality, but like you said, she doesn't even have a mom and dad in her home like your son does. Give it a break. That's all I'm saying. (not trying to attack you personally).

I think I see what you're trying to say, but I have to tell you it really bothers me that you say "I get so mad when I hear that crap about the firstborn children getting considered first. That's like telling a dad that if he made a mistake in a previous marriage....." So what I hear you saying is that his first born isn't granted seniority and his first born is "a mistake". Wow - that's harsh! Maybe his marriage and decision to have a child was a mistake, but that mistake has now created a child - not a piece of garbage that can be disposed of like so many other things people are used to throwing away and getting new ones in our society.


No, that's not what I was trying to say. I have a son from a previous marriage and my husband has two daughters from a previous marriage so in no way am I saying that the children are garbage to throw away. My point is that sometimes people may marry young, be forced into it (as my husband was), or have a partner that turns into the devil themselves in the first marriage. That's what I'm referring to as a mistake. First born kids should have no seniority over subsequent ones, Period.

P.S- I think you're getting confused on who's saying what (note your last reply). You have some of my quotes mixed in with another person's.

Please go back and read who said what .... I never made the comment about" getting tired of reading of the crap that the first born child gets" and never posted anything about the first child being a "mistake" please go back and read who posted what...

Shedo..
Of course it "matters how much money he is paying to her" Would you like to be told to give away part of your hard earned money? We give it because we have to it is the law...Every situation is different.....we pay a generous amount and my Step-daughter still has NOTHING at her other house........we give and give and give and give until something we are down to nothing at our house...............
As as far as your comment about giving money to make up for her dad not being in her house Her dad is in her house we have my step-daughter 60% of the month and her dad is there too bad her mom was seeing something else and her dad walked in on them that is why her dad is not there 100% of time..
In my opinon her mom doesn't deserve a dime of our money, but my opinion isn't the law and we pay what we are suppose to and A LOT more per month but NEVER say my son is less important because he was the second born or that he deserves to be supported less than a first born just happens that he was born into a loving marriage and his daugther wasn't no fault of hers though.................His first born is supported the way the law says she needs to be my son is supported by the way I says he needs to be like it or not......

While I don't think the 'first born' should get the bulk of the cs, I have seen cases where people remarried and PURPOSEFULLY had other children to get their child support lowered. Even told the judge that!

I have represented custodial and non-custodial parents. I am often appointed by the court to represent those we commonly call 'deadbeat dads'. I have kept a lot of them out of jail because they had mitigating circumstances, eg., they've been ill, they've been injured, they've been laid off. They were evacuated from Louisiana after a Hurricane and can't find work. There are legitimate excuses for non-payment. However, I've seen deadbeats, too, with 100,000 owed in CS, and who didn't have the foggiest idea why they should have to pay.

So, yeah, I've worked both sides of the fence, and I understand both sides of the fence. And, the bottom line is still: The Best Interest of the Child. Is it in the child's best interests for Dad/Mom (whoever is non-custodial) to pay support or not? Usually, it is best for cs to be paid. After all, most grocery stores don't hand out groceries without some money, and I have yet to shop in a Wal-Mart that will sell you shoes, socks, undies, or other clothes without dinero. LIkewise, most landlords like to get paid at least occasionally if you are going to live in their house, and mortgage companies tend to want payment on the house note, or they do this nasty little thing called 'repossession'.

So, yeah, I still stick to my earlier comment. If you can't manage your money, keep your pecker in your pants and don't make more babies. Be kind to the ones you have already procreated. Support them in accordance with your abilities.

Who is saying no one should pay CS? I havew yet to read any one on this thread claiming we should not support our children financialy!!! All I have said was the way it is done is incorect and not in the best interest of the children! It is clear to me you have a set opinion on this as you seem to have read what you wanted out of what we have writen! You have made your opinion and said what you felt about me... Now here is what I feel about you... I feel you are in only in family law for the money and being so it suit's you to defend the mother as that would be where most of the money is!!! I do not think you care about your clients and especially the children!!! You are, in my opinion, why we have this problem and why the children are made to suffer!!!

Okay, so if I get you right, because I am an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of Texas, and I specialize in family law, I am a greedy ***** who is the cause of the problem. Geez, talk about not reading the posts. Did you bother to read that I represent a good number of noncustodial parents and KEEP THEM OUT OF JAIL? Did you happen to read that I talked about valid reasons why people fall behind on child support, defendable reasons? I doubt it. You seem to have your own little agenda, Mikey, and as I said in my very first post in this thread, if you have a gripe with the way the Texas Family Code calculates child support, I urge you to talk to your legislator. Legislature drafted the Code. Not the Judges. Not the lawyers. Legislature.

Of course, it is always easier to call women names.

You might just be surprised to learn the following about me:

1. I have three children, one adopted, and two adopted grandchildren. I have been married to one man for 32 years. My grandchildren were adopted when their bio parents rights were terminated, in part for non-payment of child support. The parents have paid a total of $20.00 since the boys were born.

2. I worked for Children's Protective Services from 1976 until 1980, when I had my second child, and returned from 1982 to 1984.

3. I am court approved as an attorney ad litem and as a guardian ad litem. That means I had to undergo certain court required and state required training and be approved by the family judges in the counties where I practice.

4. I am also court approved to conduct social studies in custody cases. That includes making recommendations who gets custody. That means I have to have certain education beyond the average attorney and have conducted 20 social studies under the supervision of another qualified social study investigator before commencing my own studies. I have been court approved to conduct studies since 1977. Where you even born then????

5. I am also court approved to be appointed to represent noncustodial parents who potentially could go to jail if found in contempt. Very few of the dads I have represented have gone to jail, although the man who owed $100,000 in past due child support did. He flatly refused to pay.

The Courts seem to have tremendous respect for my recommendations here as both an ad litem as as a social study investigator. I am not bragging; I am stating a fact. I don't do this for the money -- I could make more at Wal-Mart, after I pay all the expenses of being in private practice! -- I do it because I love family law and because someone has to do it. I have the reputation of representing the underdogs, of taking on cases no one else thought was winnable and winning them, but only when I truly think it is in the best interest of a child. I have never taken a case involving a child that I thought my client was endangering a child. I've withdrawn from a few when I realized that my client was the problem, but I have never accepted one in the first place. I do not appreciate your uneducated comments about my motives, my credentials, or my education.

I figure I really hit home when I said people who can't afford to take care of their children have no business having more children.

Oh, and by the way, most of the money is in the dad's pockets, not the moms. Ask any family lawyer. And, if I were in this just for the money, I'd be doing criminal law full-time, or doing Vioxx cases.

You commented in your first post that you have custody of other children, and their mom pays no child support to you. You seemed both proud of that as well as bitter about it. Why don't you get child support for your children? It is not your money you are shirking off, it is their entitlement.

And, no, I'm not trying to get you to come hire me -- I wouldn't take your case! -- but the attorney general is there to help you on that case, just like they are there to hit you on contempt charges if you don't pay in the other case.

Pay your support. Make your ex pay you what she should be paying. Grow up and get a life, and don't blame other people for your problems, especially someone like myself who has worked in family law since 1976 and only does this for the children.

Hmmm...
I was not the one name calling you should read you own post... I could care less about what all you have done and been... I would go after child support from my 1st wife if I felt it would be in our kids best interest and not land her in jail... Being a gaurdian ad litem does not make you a saint... "CPS is another corupt government agency claiming to help children but in most cases does the oposite" (a quote from a close friend who works there)... I do pay my child support! I just do not believe it is a fair amount... Yes I was born before 1977... If you could make more working for Wal-Mart, then maybee you should... If you feel you are protecting the guilty then why would you??? I do not blame other people, I hold my ex responsible for her lies, the Cook County Courts and a self proclaimed feminist judge responsible providing her with a corupt system in which she could get away with them... I never said I did not make money... I said I pay to much... I never claimed to know anything of the laws in Tx...

skmiddleton,
Where in Texas do you practice law? I am in Texas and need a good attorney to have paper work amended and get our CS lowered based on the fact that we have my step-daughter 50 % of the month.....

Hmmm...
I was not the one name calling you should read you own post... I could care less about what all you have done and been... I would go after child support from my 1st wife if I felt it would be in our kids best interest and not land her in jail... Being a gaurdian ad litem does not make you a saint.....

Satmike -
ABSOLUTELY you were name calling. Pointing me out on the boards indicating I am "soul less" is certainly name calling and not to mention childish.

Who is saying no one should pay CS? I havew yet to read any one on this thread claiming we should not support our children financialy!!! All I have said was the way it is done is incorect and not in the best interest of the children!

You need to clearly think about what you are saying. You are giving advice to all of these people (to whom you are oblivous about their situation) but not taking your own. You indicated that you will not make your ex pay child support BUT then turn around and say "I have yet to read any one on this thread claiming we should not support our children financially". . All I keep reading from you over and over again is how child support is unfair, parents should share responsibility - all the while you are giving this advice, you need to look at yourself in the mirror cause all you are doing is making big fat excuses of why your ex shouldn't pay you. Why are these rules good for everyone else BUT not you or your ex? Who cares if she ends up in jail. Maybe she would get off of her lazy rump and take responsibility if there is a court order waving in front of her face to pay for the children she has made. STOP making excuses for someone else and stand up to the plate and be a father to the two children who aren't getting any support. Stop being responsible for someone else.....or perhaps there is something else going on here.....perhaps you are still in love with her..... Mmmmmm???? :rolleyes:

Do you want to teach your children - it's ok to go and make babies and not have to worry about paying any money towards supporting them? Why are you saving their mother from the consequences? The children need to learn that EVERYONE, including their mother needs to be responsible. Jail time or NOT.

Just my $0.02.

Well then... I do see where you get that as name calling, however, it was only meant to be a lead title to this thread. I apologise for not putting more thought into it! I do not recall offering any advice, just making statements on how i feel about the way the laws are. I do not pretend to anything about any legal situation other then my own. I never said it was ok for my ex not to pay child support, I said i would make her pay if I felt it would be in the kids best interest and not land her in jail. As it is she only comes to see them once every couple of weeks and it realy hurts the kids. If was to go after support she would not pay as she does not have a job and would probably never see the kids. I sure could use the extra money but the kids are not going hungry. I guess several of you here feel that I do not have the right to feel that way? I am curious as to why?

SatMike - I accept your apology as I hold no grudges to anyone. (Even if you wouldn't have apologized. I'm humble like that.)

If she only comes to see the kids once every few weeks - why do you care if she lands in jail for non-payment? Still appears you are trying to make her look good for the kids. STOP making excuses for her and make her contribute to raising the children. Does she buy them anything when she comes to visit? A toy? New Clothes? She offers nothing?

I suggest talking to her and ask her for a little help - even if it is $50.00 a week. If she isn't interested, take that woman to court and get some money for your children. As their father, you owe it to them. If she then ceases visitation and seeing the children, again - that is HER choice - NOT yours. Don't live in the "what may happen world".

Let's face it satmike - she is a deadbeat.

How old are these kids?

whoops! I apologize to y'all. I did get statements mixed up by who said them. sorry!

Bottom line is, I agree that all kids should be equal. Although I am under the understanding that they are. When a ncp has more children with a new wife, the cs for the older child gets reduced if there is a request to have it modified. I just didn't like the comment by Arkansasmom about it being "crap" that the first born get considered first. It sounded awful, as if the firstborn should be discarded and the father should be given the chance to start over again. But I'm open to the possibility I misunderstood your intentions.

She is no doubt a "dead beat" even tho I despise that word. I make no excuses for her what so ever. Someone spoke earlier in this thread of sitting on the floor with thier child crying because a father never showed up when promised. That realy hit home... Amy has done that so many times literly 100's of times. With every promise thier hopes go up just to be crushed all over again. I have no emotions for her more then anger and sometimes even hate, but she is still thier mother and they will always love her. Anything bad that happens to her will hurt them and they have been threw enough! I can not add any more pain to what they already have to deal with. So until it is less painful for my kids to let her off the hook I will. She agreed to pay $100 a month but has never done so. In fact for the last 3 or 4 years I have paid for her presents to the kids for X-mas. I would love to see her pay for what she done to the kids and put them threw, but I would never do it at thier expense.

SatMike STOP now before your situation is out of control. STOP buying presents for your children FROM their mother. Children are pretty resilient - don't underestimate them. They need to know that their mother is NOT there for them. Your ex is TAKING advantage of you and all you keep doing is clearing her name for the kid's sake. You need to explain to your kids that "mommy is going through a rough time and that she is having issues. She is a human being and she is dealing with things that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU".

Right now - your kids think they get presents from mom. NOT TRUE. How disappointing to know that the present under the tree that says "mom" really isn't from mom. You are setting them up for disappointment & lying to them. Let's hope this doesn't bite you in the a$$ in the end. They will lose their trust in you too. That's not the way you want it.

My advice (though you didn't ask - I am going to give.) is to cut her off from seeing the children. (I know I am going to be flamed for this.) Mom not being in the picture at all is better than a mom who is in the picture with false promises pushing your children straight to a depression state of mind.

If my ex tried to come into the picture and see my son - it's would take a big battle. My child's emotional well-being is MUCH more important to me than him seeing his "father" - to whom he hasnt' seen in 5 years. (My son is now 9.)

Just my $0.02. Flame away.

Can't do it... I have decided this year that I will not buy presents for her to give them tho... I grew up without a father or I should say one was never around and i had to realise who he realy was on my own. I feel i am better off from not having it rubed into my face that he was a piece of sh*t. Actualy I think I am a better father then I would of been had he been around. My youngest son who I do not have custody of, lives in Chicago and his mother has only let me see him a few times. I know how that makes me feel and what i think of her as a parent and a person becouse she would keep him from me. I can not let myself be that kind of person.

My older children are 16 and 14, they have a good idea of what is realy going on and deal very well so far. At least as much as I can tell.

Well my friend - I will pray for you.

In the meantime, keep sending your youngest cards and presents and whatever. If they never make their way to him at least you have tried. Also what are the chances she wouldn't give him the presents you send to him? Soon he'll start to question where the gifts are from.

Someday he'll see when he is older. ;)

~peace~

My older children are 16 and 14, they have a good idea of what is realy going on and deal very well so far. At least as much as I can tell.

Well just talk to them and let them know about your situation about your father. Tell them you know how they feel and that if they want to talk you - you are there. (But I am sure you are already doing that.)

But no more presents.......mmm k?

Take care.....

My advice (though you didn't ask - I am going to give.) is to cut her off from seeing the children. (I know I am going to be flamed for this.) Just my $0.02. Flame away.

No flames from me, however I would like to point out the legal reality that IF there is a court order allowing visitation, the CP does NOT have the right to withhold visitation. To do so, a CP risks being found in contempt of court, and POSSIBLY losing custody.

However, a CP DOES have the legal right to file to modify visitation order if the NCP is a physical or emotional danger to the children.

Just a reminder that in some cases there are legal ramifications for following your advice. :)
Xena

I will continue to send him things... I do not know if he knows where they come from or not but I keep the reciepts... I spoke to his mom today. I am trying to get her to let me see him before I go to Kuwait for 2 months. She said that she has a life and cannot drop everything just because I want to see my son. I have been trying to arange this since I found out I was going 3 weeks ago.

Ok, My husband is On disabilty, His ex was rewared CS But took His Daughter and her 4 sisters out of the juristiction of the court. for a while to FLA. When She Got tired of them She Drove them to Enid Okla. And Gave Them a blank check and drove back to Fla. Leaving them all alone. They ended up in foster care The DHS contacted us And we Made arrangements to get hubby's child after 2 years, She decided She wanted them Back And Went to 3 Parenting classes and DHS took the child from us and gave her back! And Told us that we were no more than Glorified Babysitters, Then She Got tired Of them again and dumped them off on her sister! After this went On for several years We get a letter stating that We owe her for Child support and they even started taking My Income tax money. The Child moved in With a 36 year old man at the age of 16 and now She has a baby, We found out She Has Not lived with her mother since ,and had dropped out of school in the 8th grade. She Is now 18, She turned 18 the first of this month, And Guess What Mommy dearest Is still getting CS She Don't give the kid a penny! Never has. And Has called my home demanding more money On several Occasions.

I hope you get it figured out... Yet another example of how many problems there are with the system...

You're Going To Kuwait In A Couple Of Weeks????? Are You In The Military????? Call The Jag Office, Tell Them The B... Blessed Woman (whew, Almost Went 'politically Incorrect On That One!!!!) Won't Let You See Your Child Before You Get Shipped Out. For Heaven's Sakes, No Wonder You Are So Angry. I Know They Don't Like To Do Family Law, But I'd Just Bet In This Situation, They Can Help.

No, I am not military any more. I am D.O.D. contrator. My company provides equipment that protects our soldiers and bases from terorist atacks. I think she will probably give me a few hours with him but this trip is a long one and I would realy like to have him longer.

P.S. Kuwait is actualy fairly safe as long you don't get stupid.

I will continue to send him things... I do not know if he knows where they come from or not but I keep the reciepts... I spoke to his mom today. I am trying to get her to let me see him before I go to Kuwait for 2 months. She said that she has a life and cannot drop everything just because I want to see my son. I have been trying to arange this since I found out I was going 3 weeks ago.

I've checked all your other posts to see if you've said that there is an existing order for visitation, but couldn't find anything.

Do you have an order giving you any visitation rights at all?

If so, you need to file an emergency motion for contempt and visitation before you leave for Kuwait. Under the circumstances, the court will hear the motion very quickly. Good luck.
Xena

Nope I have no legal right to see him. The judge has only ordered her to let me see him on 1 visit for 2 days 30 min on the first day and 2 hrs the second. She let me see him a few weeks ago 3.5 hrs the first day and 30 on the second. That is all the time I have ever been able to see him. After I get back from Kuwait I am hoping to have enough money to hire an atourney in Il. It is my understanding that it will be a diferent judge come the new year. I am hopeing that I can get visitation ordered.

Is there anyone here is familiar with the Cook County corts?

Courts (oops)

how come the judge only put in the order for you to see your child twice is there something bad u did or what. sounds like this judge really isn't looking for the best interest of the child by not ordering u standard visitation like most usually get.

Outside of speeding fines I have a clean record. I have custody of my first 2 kids, I don't do drugs, no much of drinker, don't smoke, I have a respectable job, etc... None of this ever came up in court. I could not aford an atourney and because I did not lice Il, I was unable to get legal aid. The only thing I asked for was visitation and reasonable child support. The judge said I did not some form and therefore would not give me visitation. Staci told her i made $3k a week I showed the judge papers form the state of Fl that Staci had filled out and sighned showing I actualy was only bringing in about $1400 a month at the time. I got nailed $800 a month CS. She looked at the papers and just completely ignored them.

wow so sry to hear that. sounds like that judge needs some sense smacked into him/her. that is really bull i would b filing a complaint against that judge if there really was no reason for not getting reasonable visitation and filing for modification of cs if it is still more than u should really b paying. and i dont know if possible but ask for another judge too. i really hope u can get something done cause that sounds totally unfair.

I am going to keep trying and I have high hopes due to she is suposed to gone after jan 1st.

well hun gl and keep us posted. where is she going?

I am not sure, I think the judges there rotate from family law to criminal law every other year so.