PDA

View Full Version : Employer wants their money back in PA


stayinghome
08-17-2005, 06:12 PM
Hi - Here's the problem: I went out on Maternity Leave after the birth of my child and had to use all of my accumulated sick, personal & vacation time. After this time was used my Employer then paid me under Short term disability at the rate of 4 weeks at 2/3 pay followed by 4 weeks at 1/2 pay. They then paid me 2 weeks at full pay which was termed "compliments of the firm" benefit. Well, after the birth I decided that I did not want to return to work and notified the firm of my decision. I notified them with a few weeks left of short-term disability. They were gracious and understanding but then they immediately stopped paying me and a week later I received a bill in the mail for all of the short-term pay they had given me as well as what they called vacation time not yet earned. This job was in PA and the firm has 50+ employees. Any thoughts on the legality of this? Thanks for any help or insight you may have!

grasmicc
08-17-2005, 06:24 PM
You are not legally obligated to pay them. Just tell them to take a hike and ignore further letters.

A gift becomes irrevocable upon formal delivery, in this case, them transferring control of the money to you. They could try to argue that there was some sort of agreement for a loan, but absent any writings to that effect they are going to have a tough time.

stayinghome
08-17-2005, 08:35 PM
I did acknowledge a memo that stated that I was returning to work full time and that if I did not do so, the firm would want their money back. This memo was not a legal document nor was it notarized or witnessed by anyone. The unearned vacation time I can see them wanting back, but how am I responsible to reimburse them for paid short term disability monies?

grasmicc
08-18-2005, 05:59 AM
"I did acknowledge a memo that stated that I was returning to work full time and that if I did not do so, the firm would want their money back. This memo was not a legal document nor was it notarized or witnessed by anyone. The unearned vacation time I can see them wanting back, but how am I responsible to reimburse them for paid short term disability monies?"

Actually, the memo was a legal document (either an offer or a contract) and it doesn't need to be witnessed or notarized under these circumstances. There are no formal requirements for most contracts. They do not even need to be in writing. (Exceptions: Sale of goods for more than $500, sale of real estate, transactions that cannot possibly be performed within a time-frame of one year, real estate sale contracts, contracts to pay the debts of another, contracts by executor of a will to pay estate debts from his own funds, contracts in consideration of marriage. (further exception: these rules do not apply in Louisianna).) Even oral contracts are binding unless they fall into one of the exceptions stated above. However, they are difficult to prove for obvious reasons.

There may be some additional rules under PA labor law that prevent you from being forced to repay these moneys, but unfortunately your state is in the stone ages and has not posted their state law online. Can one of the HR people comment on this?

Do you know precisely what the memo said? If so, can you post the precise terms here?

And when you say you "Acknowledged" the memo, are you saying that you signed it, that you received it, etc? Do they have proof that you received it?

grasmicc
08-18-2005, 07:02 AM
One other question - did the employer have other employees (not pregnant women) who were taking time off sign a similar contract?

cbg
08-18-2005, 07:35 AM
I've had employees in PA but the best I can offer is that I'm not aware of any law either prohibiting the employer from asking for these monies back, or that expressly gives them permisssion to do so. Of course, I would never dream of asking an employee to repay STD benefits either, so I wouldn't have looked for one.

I used to have a booklet issued by the DLI on wage laws, but I'm pretty sure I left it behind for my replacement when I left the last company I worked for with a PA office. That was several years ago so it might not even be up to date.

I can tell you that as far as vacation pay is concerned, PA law requires an employee to follow their policy. They do not require that an employer pay out vacation time on termination but if you have a policy of doing so they are required to follow through with it. If they have a policy of only paying it out in some circumstances they only have to pay it out in those circumstances. And if you have not yet earned the vacation time they pay you they definitely can ask for it back - that one I HAVE discussed with the PA DLI.

stayinghome
08-18-2005, 08:15 AM
I do not know -- but can only assume that it would because the firm's short term disability policy states that in order for an employee to be paid under the STD policy, they must state their intention to return to full time service at the conclusion of the disability. However, the firm's policy does not contain any language stating that if the employee does not return to full time service that they would have to repay all the monies. The memo that I received is the only document that contained that language. Thanks so much.

grasmicc
08-18-2005, 08:47 AM
I do not know -- but can only assume that it would because the firm's short term disability policy states that in order for an employee to be paid under the STD policy, they must state their intention to return to full time service at the conclusion of the disability. However, the firm's policy does not contain any language stating that if the employee does not return to full time service that they would have to repay all the monies. The memo that I received is the only document that contained that language. Thanks so much.

It sounds like, based on what you said, that you need to repay the premiums paid on the policy, but not the benefits.

Complete Labor Law Poster for $24.95
from www.LaborLawCenter.com, includes
State, Federal, & OSHA posting requirements