PDA

View Full Version : OT:Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV


Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not
to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the
HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

The Vatican
Vatican advice on condoms is at odds with the WHO

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a
widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV
virus.

A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms,
despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

The church's claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and
the Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican's
Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told
the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the
spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is
formed by the condom.

They are wrong

"These margins of uncertainty... should represent an obligation on the
part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same
way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect
statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a
global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people,
and currently affects at least 42 million."

The organisation says "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the
risk of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of
condoms - but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of
Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable
to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually
transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to
transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD
viruses".

The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this
is an easily recognisable fact."

Laced condoms


Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids
Gordon Wambi, AIDS testing centre in Kenya
The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks
the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has
fought to defend.

In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the
church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim
about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki,
said: "Aids... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected
choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can
pass through".

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says
he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi
told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are
laced with HIV/Aids."

Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics
as far apart as Asia and Latin America.

Sex and the Holy City will be broadcast on BBC One on Sunday, 12
October, 2003 at 22:15 BST.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3180236.stm

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Xenos the Elder wrote:

Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV

So why Xenos do you spread the truth about this man being responsible
for the deaths of millions of people instead of lying and saying he was
a " good " man?
Why do you hate lies and hypocrisy so much?
Who cares about millions of dead 3 worldlers?
Definitely not those 4-5 people who attack you here in this ng for
saying how it was.
Fascist don't care about " other " people.
Don't you get it Xenos?

And I Xenos give a **** about those fascist.
German, American or others.

The Dave
04-09-2005, 03:48 PM
> Xenos the Elder wrote:
Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV The Catholic Church is... <snipped>

Are we obsessed?

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 04:05 PM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:Vatican - condoms don't stop HIVThe Catholic Church is...<snipped> Are we obsessed?

I am not a catholic.
So are you obsessed?
With looking the other way while millions die because of the lies of an
old ( now dead ) senile man?
How you call this when somebody is killing people and you say " no no
this is not true nobody got murdered ".
The facts are there. Don't call a murderer a good man or even a very
good man or even holy.
What's holy about lying to people make them fear a nonexistent hell and
let them die a death which could have been prevented?
But who cares of those " niggers " we just don't use that word anymore
but we are free to " think " it.

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 04:13 PM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:Vatican - condoms don't stop HIVThe Catholic Church is...<snipped> Are we obsessed?
About The Westboro Baptist Church

At the funeral of gay murder victim Matthew Shepard, they held up signs
reading "No Fags in Heaven" and "God Hates Fags." According to their Web
site, they have staged "20,000" protests across the nation and around
the world in the last decade.
Virulently homophobic, the Westboro Baptist Church has picketed the gay
community at hundreds of events nationwide. Many of its fliers emphasize
the race or religion of these individuals.
They believe that "God's hatred is one of His holy attributes." They are
the congregants of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas.

Incorporated in 1967 as a not-for-profit organization, the virulently
homophobic Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) considers itself an "Old School
(or, Primitive)" Baptist Church. The Church is led by the septuagenarian
Reverend Fred Waldron Phelps Sr., and many WBC congregants are related
to Phelps by blood. His wife, several of his children and dozens of his
grandchildren frequent the church.

While WBC has picketed the gay community at hundreds of events
nationwide, most of the individuals protested by the Church are not
homosexual. In fact, WBC most often targets people it mistakenly claims
are gay or those it believes to be encouraging homosexuality. Many WBC
fliers emphasize the race or religion of these individuals, suggesting
that the Church's hate spreads beyond its abhorrence of homosexuality.
What appears to be anti-gay rhetoric is often a vehicle for WBC's
anti-Semitism, hatred of other Christians, and even racism, though in
the 1980s Fred Phelps received awards from the Greater Kansas City
Chapter of Blacks in Government and the Bonner Springs branch of the
NAACP for his work on behalf of Black clients.

Trained as a lawyer, Fred Phelps was disbarred in 1979 by the Kansas
Supreme Court, which asserted that he had "little regard for the ethics
of his profession." The formal complaint against Phelps charged that he
misrepresented the truth in a motion for a new trial in a case he had
brought, and that he held the defendant in the case up to "unnecessary
public ridicule for which there is no basis in fact." Following his
disbarment from Kansas State courts, Phelps continued to practice law in
Federal courts. In 1985, nine Federal court judges filed a disciplinary
complaint charging him and six of his family members, all attorneys,
with making false accusations against them. The Phelpses fought the
complaint but lost. In 1989, Fred Phelps agreed to surrender his license
to practice law in Federal court in exchange for the Federal judges
allowing the other members of his family to continue practicing in
Federal court.

In 1991, WBC staged its first public demonstration, targeting a park in
Topeka allegedly frequented by gays. Thousands of protests have
followed, and WBC shows no sign of slowing down. In addition to speeches
on the picket lines, the Church spreads its hateful message via faxed
fliers and "News Releases." These faxed documents also appear at WBC's
notorious Web site, Godhatesfags.com, along with photos of Church
pickets and a schedule of upcoming demonstrations. A second WBC Web
site, Godhatesamerica.com, contends that the United States is "doomed"
because it supports gays. According to Fred Phelps, "God invented the
Internet for us to preach on."

The following quotations from WBC materials and other sources expose the
Church's views on Jews, gays, Blacks, Christians and the United States.
WBC's own words best demonstrate the wide range and disturbing nature of
its hatred.
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 04:14 PM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:Vatican - condoms don't stop HIVThe Catholic Church is...<snipped> Are we obsessed?
On Jews

Gen. [Wesley] Clark opposed fags & dykes in the militaryBUTwhen he
decided to run for President on the Democratic ticket he groveled like a
mangy dog to the FagiNazis running the Democratic Party, and promised to
lift the ban on gays in the military. His Christ-rejecting, God-hating
Jew blood bubbled to the surface. Yes, like his boss [John] Kerry, Clark
is a Jew.That these two turds are Jews would not matterexcept when
they ask for supreme political power & spit in the Face of God, pushing
for same-sex marriage, threatening to bring down Gods wrath on us as on
Sodomthen some inquiries are in order. Beware! Jews killed the Lord
Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please
not God, and are contrary to all men; forbidding us to speak to the
Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always; for the
wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thess. 2:14. Apostate fags
& Jews certain to bring Gods wrath.

-- Westboro Baptist Church news release, March 2, 2004

"Whatever righteous cause the Jewish victims of the 1930s-40s Nazi
Holocaust had, (probably miniscule, compared to the Jewish Holocausts
against Middle Passage Blacks, African Americans and Christians --
including the bloody persecution of Westboro Baptist Church by Topeka
Jews in the 1990s), has been drowned in sodomite semen. American
taxpayers are financing this unholy monument to Jewish mendacity and
greed and to filthy *** lust...Homosexuals and Jews dominated Nazi
Germany...just as they now dominate this doomed U.S.A....The Jews now
wander the earth despised, smitten with moral and spiritual blindness by
a divine judicial stroke...And god has smitten Jews with a certain
unique madness, whereby they are an astonishment of heart, a proverb,
and a byword (the butt of jokes and ridicule) among all peoples whither
the Lord has driven and scattered them...Jews, thus perverted, out of
all proportion to their numbers energize the militant sodomite
agenda...The American Jews are the real Nazis (misusers and abusers of
governmental power) who hate God and the rule of law."

-- "WBC to picket Holocaust Memorial Sodomite Museum in D.C. Jan. 20,"
WBC "News Release," December 26, 1996

"The only true Jews are Christians. The rest of the people who claim to
be Jews aren't, and they are nothing more than typical, impenitent
sinners, who have no Lamb. As evidence of their apostacy [sic], the vast
majority of Jews support fags. Of course, there are Jews who still
believe God's law, but most of them have even departed from that."

-- "FAQ," WBC "Godhatesfags.com" Web site

"As Hitler controlled the courts, prosecutors and police (Gestapo) in
persecuting German Jews, so do Topeka Jews today in persecuting
Baptists. As first century Jews stirred up the Roman tyrants in
persecuting the primitive church, so do Topeka Jews today stir up Kansas
tyrants in persecuting Westboro Baptists. They whine about the Nazi
Holocaust, while they perpetrate the Topeka Holocaust."

-- "Topeka's Baptist Holocaust," WBC flier, March 23, 1996

"The Jew lawyers and judges of Temple Beth Sholom *******ize and
prostitute the legal system to maliciously prosecute and persecute
innocent Westboro Baptists, just as their Jewish ancestors manipulated
the Roman legal system to torture and crucify the Lord Jesus Christ and
persecute His disciples. The Jew psychiatrists and other shyster
brain-washers of Temple Beth Sholom write columns and conduct seminars
to vilify and slander innocent Westboro Baptists, just as their scribes,
Rabbis, Pharisees and Sadducees did to the Lord Jesus Christ and his
disciples in Bible days...The Jews of Temple Beth Sholom are sinful,
greedy, Hell-bound, money-grubbing sodomites; and they have dedicated
their synagogue to be a gay and lesbian propaganda mill and recruiting
depot, soliciting young people to sodomy."

-- "Westboro Baptists will picket the Jewish Arts Festival at Jewish
Community Center...Temple Beth Sholom for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur,"
WBC "News Release,"
September 7, 1996

"*** Jew Nazis are worse than ordinary Nazis. They've had more
experience. Jews stirred up the Romans to butcher 6 million Christians
in the catacombs in the 1st century. The First Holocaust was a Jewish
Holocaust against Christians. The latest Holocaust is by Topeka Jews
against WBC..."

-- "Topeka's Dominant *** Jew Masters are now agitating for: Same-Sex
*** Jew Marriage!" WBC flier, April 19, 1996

"Worldwide Jewry and worldwide Fagery [sic] appear to have the same
problem: They both want to criminalize Gospel preaching under misleading
labels. Jews label Gospel preaching as Anti-Semitism; Fags label Gospel
preaching as 'Hate Crimes.' Both groups -- Fags and Jews -- are
doomed!...WBC buys trees for Israel. WBC prays for the peace of
Jerusalem. But isn't there a logical correlation between Jewish tyranny
& Anti-Semitism?"
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/wbc_on_jews.asp

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 04:23 PM
Xenos the Elder wrote:

George Bush and the Rise of Christian Fascism

Rev. Rich Lang
Trinity United Methodist Church Seattle. <oddrev@yahoo.com>

02/14/04: (ICH) The men who wrote the Constitution of the United States
knew that we human beings have a tendency to 'not get along with each
other'. They knew that if power accrued into the hands of an elite the
experiment of democracy (power spread out into the realm of the people)
would be over. So they created a system of checks and balances which
blocked access to any one person, or any one special interest or elite
gaining too much power over others. Thus our executive, legislative and
judicial branches of government "checked" each other. The media was yet
another "check" on the accrual of too much power as was the Bill of
Rights which was written into the Constitution. The system wasn't
perfect but it kept alive the possibility of true democracy. It kept
alive the dream that one day "we the people" could live in a peaceful
commonwealth where every person has what they need to survive and thrive.

That dream died in December 2000 when the checks and balances of our
Constitution collapsed and George Bush was inserted into the Presidency
of the nited States. September 11, 2001 furthered the atrophying of
democracy handing the country into the hands of an emerging Corporate
(and I say Christian) Fascism.

Since that time we have witnessed and have been unable to prevent the
emergence of an Imperial Presidency that has the unrestricted power to
declare war against any country he chooses. The Imperial Presidency has
brought to an end the Constitutional mandate that 'ONLY CONGRESS' has
the authority to declare war. It has furthered weakened international
law and has undermined the potential of the United Nations to spread
democracy throughout the earth.

The President has also gained unrestricted power to round up unlimited
numbers of American citizens and incarcerate them in military brigs or
concentration camps for the rest of their lives. He can keep them from
ever again communicating with friends, families, and attorneys, simply
on the president's certification that

the incarcerated are "terrorists," as he has done with Jose

Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi. The President may also now kill American
citizens abroad solely on the basis of his certification that the one
killed is a "terrorist". Just ask the family and friends of Ahmed
Hijazi, anAmerican killed with a U.S.-fired missile in Yemen. Therefore
suspending the Constitutional right: "no person shall be denied life,
liberty or property without due process of law."

Ominous signs are all around us concerning the accrual of power into the
hands of the Presidency. If Mr. Bush stays in office I think our future
will continue to witness shrinking political rights, financial collapse
and endless war. Part of the power and seduction of this administration
emerges from its diabolical manipulation of Christian rhetoric. I want
to flesh out the ideology of the Christian Fascism that Mr. Bush
articulates. It is a form of Christianity that is the mirror opposite of
what Jesus embodied. It is, indeed, the materialization of the spirit of
antichrist: a perversion of Christian faith and practice.

This country, like it or not, is overwhelmingly dominated by the
ideology of the Christian story. It is not so much that our founders
were all Christians. Rather, they lived in an atmosphere scented
throughout by Christian thought and rhetoric. Just as most of us can't
imagine how to keep things cold without refrigeration; so too our
founders couldn't help but think through the lens of the Christian
story. And what they saw was that America had become the New Israel (the
new Promised Land) of God. America has understood itself as a benevolent
nation seeking only the good of all. We have understand our wealth as a
blessing given to us as a sign that we are a "chosen, special people"
whose larger meaning is to help the world into an era of peace,
prosperity and justice. Every politician draws on this "civil religion
story" which gives authority to the politicians ambition and agenda.
Another way of saying this is: every nation needs sacred legitimation.
It needs the authority of transcendence: of a story larger than itself .
a story that connects past with present and future. An Empire needs an
even broader story: one that connects with cosmic and/or historical
redemption and new creation.

Martin Luther King understood this sacred American civil religion and
was able to wed it brilliantly with the prophetic religious teachings of
the Bible. He drew upon Biblical narratives which limited the power and
authority of the elite while calling for economic redistribution of
wealth. He drew upon teachings rooted in the personal morality of
nonviolence and compassion. George Bush, on the other hand, also
understands this sacred American 'civic gospel' and has brilliantly
merged it with Biblical Holiness and Holy War traditions. These
traditions call for the emergence of the Righteous Warrior who will
cleanse the land of its impurity. These traditions are rooted in the
personal morality of righteous zeal and obedience.

For example:

1.. Mr. Bush consistently sends signals to his right wing religious
base. In last year's State of the Union he exhorted: "there's power,
wonder working power, in the goodness and idealism and faith of the
American people". It's a phrase from a well known Communion hymn
"there's power, wonder working power in the blood of the lamb". Bush
brings together the holiness zeal of Christian evangelicalism with
patriotic fundamentalism. The core belief system of this 'civic gospel'
goes something like this: The United States was founded as a Christian
nation with free enterprise as the only economic system truly compatible
with Christian beliefs. These religious values are today under attack in
America. The danger is that without faith in God America will lose its
blessing. Therefore, the government needs to act to protect the nation's
religious heritage.

2.. Mr. Bush's teachings on terrorism: "you are with us or against us"
cements for the hearer the apocalyptic world of good versus evil. There
can be no neutral ground. You have to make a decision. Patriotism is now
all or nothing: it is either total agreement or a slippery slope towards
treason. In the Church you come to Jesus alone for salvation. In the
state you obey the God-annointed leader and are thereby secured.
Renana Brooks writes (The Nation June 24, 2003: Bush Dominates A Nation
of Victims):

"Bush is a master at inducing learned helplessness in the electorate. He
uses pessimistic language that creates fear and disables people from
feeling they can solve their problems. In his September 20, 2001 speech
to Congress on the 9/11 attacks, he chose to increase people's sense of
vulnerability: 'Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy
campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. . I ask you to live your
lives, and hug your children. I know many citizens have fears tonight .
Be calm and resolute, even in the face of a continuing threat.'
(Subsequent terror alerts .. have maintained and expanded this fear of
unknown, sinister enemies.)"

The terror threat itself can only be combated with increases in military
force, domestic security and curtailment of civil rights through Patriot
Acts. There are no other options nor any dialogue or debate that would
create an alternative way to deal with terrorism.


3.) Mr. Bush certainly sees himself as a Messiah figure. Listen to his
language after 9-11: " I will not forget this wound to our country or
those who inflicted it. I will not yield; I will not rest; I will not
relent in waging this struggle for freedom and security for the American
people." Or, in his 2003 State of the Union speech: "I will defend the
freedom and security of the American people". He has become the nation.
He is its embodiment. According to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud
Abbas, - Bush told him: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck
them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and
now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help
me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to
focus on them." This is Biblical language . it isn't political script.
This is Bush's soul language. He understands himself as a man with a
Divine mission. It also means that for him leadership is not
"representing the people" rather leadership means transcending the will
of the people. George Bush already knows the truth before the evidence
is presented. He is guided by God and must blaze the trial even if the
people are reluctant.

Iraq, for example, was a necessary war whether or not Saddam had nukes.
Saddam, for Bush, was a bad guy who tried to kill "my dad". The war, for
Bush, was holy and justified and necessary. Purging evil is necessary in
the Holiness/Holy War tradition of the Bible. The righteous will purge
evil but the unrighteous will be consumed by it. Think of an alcoholic:
it's all or nothing. The whole world is all or nothing.

Like all religions the Bible has various narratives within its pages:
Jesus drew on the prophetic traditions that called upon the people to
change their way of life even as it critiqued and called upon the elites
to decentralize their power. Jesus himself role modeled a lifestyle of
service. Mr. Bush, on the other hand, draws on traditions that call for
purity and cleansing. It is a language of hostility towards enemies and
a strident call for obedience. It calls forth a lifestyle of the
RIGHTEOUS ONE who will purge evil from the world through sacred violence.

All of this is not to say that the political world is of less
importance. We know that the planning for the Iraq war was at least a
decade in preparation. We know that America has had imperial designs and
has intervened militarily throughout the world. And we've known for 25
years that Corporations have been savagely reducing labor rights while
looting the treasury. We know that Mr. Bush is not the cause of our
problems. Rather, the point I am making is that Mr. Bush is a sincere
front man for an emerging fascism. His religious rhetoric is an
authentic merging of Holiness Christianity with Imperial Americanism.
The emphasis on security, law and order is necessary to maintain the
"high calling" of the American people. The policies of fascism, in other
words, are consistent with religious holiness and holy war narratives.
And fascism, woven underneath Christian Holiness/Holy War traditions, is
a powerful symbolic narrative that speaks to the American people as
evidenced by Mr. Bush's 58% approval rating.

The coming election will not be decided because of political policy. It
will not be decided in a debate over free markets versus fair markets;
tax cuts or no tax cuts, Patriot Act or no Patriot Act; war with Syria
or no war. None of these issues will determine the election because the
candidates are all for free markets, tax cuts, domestic security and a
strong global military presence. The election will be determined by the
candidate who can embody the deeply felt, often unarticulated religious
yearnings of the populace. Yearnings such as "who will save us, secure
us, lead us??? who will connect us with a power greater than the power
of others?" Bush speaks this language. Democrats are stuck in political
nuance. Or, in other words, Democrats cannot speak the language of
Martin Luther King who understood that social transformation requires a
transcendent authority.

The problem comes down to this: Democrats, liberals, and social
progressives have simply not grasped how afraid, insecure and how deeply
in despair the populace is. They keep speaking as if objective analysis
and idealistic vision can win the day. What Bush and Rove, Rumsfeld,
Cheney, Wolfowitz and Pearls, Abrams and Bolton, DeLay and Rice etc,
have clearly understood is that truth is subjectivity. Unfortunately,
the inner person of America today is a hollowed out consumer who lacks
the will power, stamina and imagination to do anything more than be
overwhelmed. Therefore, a politics of crisis, a politics of fear will
keep us locked into a state of conformity.

On the "civic side" of things America is being inundated with a rhetoric
of insecurity. Most of Bush's State of the Union was taken up with war
themes reminding us all of the horrible new world we live in post 9/11.
We know that further increases in the military and police budgets are on
the way; we know that the Patriot Act is going to be extended and
strengthened; we know that Homeland Security will continue to be a
growth industry. We know that this administration wants to break down
the wall between church and state with faith-based initiatives. The
world is in chaos and the Bush-men will fix it bringing us peace,
prosperity, purity and purpose.

On the religion side of things apocalyptic theology is booming. This is
also a worldview of crisis and insecurity. It is a theology rooted in
the Holiness/Holy War traditions and it dominates the spirituality of
this current administration. More to the point, this is the dominant
theology of the mass media expression of Christian faith. It is a
theology of despair that has given up on the possibilities of redemption.

One of the most popular fiction series making the rounds these days is
the LEFT BEHIND series written by Tim LaHaye & Jerry Jenkins. Multiple
millions of people are reading these books which fictionalize the end of
life as we know it. It used to be that the Church could control people
through the fear of eternal ****ation. Today it is through fear of the
future. The theology is basically this: The Bible is a code book that
when rightly interpreted reveals that we are living at the end of
history. History is scripted and is about to come to a catastrophic
conclusion. The only hope is to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and
Savior so that you can be "saved" from the future apocalypse. God will
"snatch you up" (Rapture) right before a seven year series of horrible
events that will see the rise of Antichrist and the rebuilding of the
Jewish temple. There will be world war with most of humanity dying. At
that point Jesus will return to restore law and order. This theology of
despair "fits" our current culture of powerlessness and fear. From SARS
to weapons of mass destruction to the ongoing Palestinian-Israeli
conflict, to ecological collapse, the whole world seems to be on a "no
exit" slide into an end times abyss. The theology of despair is very
seductive. It is shaping the spirituality of Christians which provides a
strong core from which Bush draws political strength.

And it has, at least, five political implications that affect each one
of us here today. FIRST: Israel is to be exalted and defended no matter
what they do to the Palestinian people. They are God's chosen people and
must reside in their Biblically anointed Land for the "end time clock"
to tick to its final minute. Israel has a Biblical mandate to conquer
and control all of the land from the Nile River to the Euphrates. Behind
the politics of oil lie the religious passion to fulfill God's will:
Syria must fall.

Secondly: institutions like the United Nations are not to be trusted
because they are tools of the Antichrist. The Antichrist is thought of
(not as a spirituality or ideology) but as an personal embodiment of
evil. The Antichrist will be a living person who will come to power at
the end of history and proclaim himself to be god on earth. The theory
has it that his power will be generated from within a coalition of
nations. Thus . America, as God's chosen nation, will need to go it
alone so as not to be duped by Antichrist. Our destiny is to take the
gospel to all the nations: a benevolent gospel of therapeutic salvation
for all.

Thirdly: since the world is passing away the environment is not of great
importance. There is no need to worry about issues of sustainability
because the world is in its final countdown. Part of the unconcern
towards global warming and other ecological crisis is the religious
belief that we aren't going to be around in 100 years. We're in the end
times now . every moment is merely preparation for eternity. Whether
Bush himself believes this or not is irrelevant. This is the religious
worldview of those who exalt him and the voter-bloc to which he plays.
For Bush to act for sustainability would require a major shift in his
religious narrative. . As an aside this past summer the National Park
Service was instructed to approve the display of religious symbols and
Bible verses, as well as the sale of creationist books at the Grand
Canyon National Park. In December 2003 the Park Service was ordered to
develop a "more balanced" version of an 8 minute video shown at the
Lincoln Memorial Visitor Center. Conservative Christians wanted the
removal of footage of gay rights, pro choice and anti-war demonstrations
replacing it with footage of Christian rallies and pro-war demonstrations.

Fourth: the trust that Jesus died for "my sins" is far more important
than the teachings of Jesus. This fosters a domesticated therapeutic
religious expression that insists that "jesus in my heart" is more
important than my lifestyle. It's like the Mafia don who could order his
enemies killed while he himself was celebrating the baptism of his
nephew. There is a disconnect between one's inner experience of God's
loving grace and embodying that experience outwardly through one's
politics. This leads to a discounting of following Jesus in a lifestyle
of nonviolence, economic justice and compassion. Again as an aside .
while Governor of Texas Mr. Bush was interviewed by Talk Magazine
concerning the impending execution of fellow Christian Karla Faye
Tucker. Bush imitated Tucker's appeal for him to spare her life .
pursing his lips, squinting his eyes, and in a squeaky voice saying,
"please don't kill me".

Fifth: a leader who loves Jesus is to be followed as God's man for the
hour. The Christian leader is God's shepherd over the American flock. As
stated before Bush sees himself as a Messiah figure (annointed by God
for a special redemptive purpose). When he decided on running for the
Presidency he called a group of evangelical Pastors together announcing
to them "I have heard the call" and then receiving from them the "laying
on of hands" which corresponds to divine ordination for the task ahead.
On September 14, 2001 he stated: "our responsibility before history is
already clear: to answer these attacks and rid the world of evil". He
then launched the crusade Operation Infinite Freedom against
Afghanistan. Yet other messainic statements from Bush:

"History has called America to action. . The great hope of our time, and
the great hope of every time, now depends on us." ..

"We must also remember our calling as a blessed nation to make the world
better . and confound the designs of evil men."

"Our nation has been chosen by God and commissioned by history, to be a
model of justice before the world."

*** According to Vice-President Cheney: America "has the duty to act
with force to construct a world in the image of the United States."

In return for this messianic leadership evangelical Christians have
returned an annointing of prayer. During the Afghanistan crusade
thousands of "Presidential Circles of Prayer" and "Wheels of Prayer"
were organized on the Internet, running 24 hours a day.

WHEEL OF PRAYER FOR OUR SOLDIERS

Lord hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us.

Bless them and their families for the altruistic actions they are performing

for us in our time of need. This I ask in the name of Jesus, our Lord
and Savior. Amen

This prayer was so popular and was hit so often that the website crashed
within days.

Pastor Charles Stanley distributed among Marines as they entered into
combat thousands of pamphlets entitled "Duty of a Christian in Time of
War". With the pamphlet went a card instructing them to sign and send
directly to Mr. Bush. The card says: "I have committed to pray for you,
your family and your Administration." Specific prayers for the President
were included for each day.

CONCLUSION:

The point I'm trying to make is that we are not dealing simply with
politics when it comes to the Bush administration. The progressive left,
which often pays little attention to Christianity, will be making a huge
mistake if they overlook the religious ideology at the core of Mr. Bush
personally and the movement he represents. And we are talking about a
"movement" (a movement of 'the people' not just the elites). We are
seeing today the emergence of a "fascist movement". It is bankrolled and
organized by Corporations, articulated through the ideology of
neo-conservativism. but is fueled by the right-wing church drawing upon
Holiness/Holy War Biblical narratives.

When Dave Korten (author of When Corporations Rule the World) says that
we need a "new story"; he is talking about needing a transcendent
authority in which we root our political culture. Human beings cannot
live in societal form without a sacred narrative. Neither anarchy nor
atheism can construct a house that will hold our future. The Republicans
know this well. But the Democrats seem clueless.

In Biblical language the Republicans have become Pharaoh whose house is
strong because of economic exploitation of the populace and military
repression of the people. The populace is being asked to make bricks
without straw. We are seeking a "savior" . a Moses who can rally us out
of these mudpits towards the promise of a land flowing with milk and
honey. Unfortunately most Democrats are simply offering Pharaoh-lite:
they still will keep us in the mudpit making bricks.

What we need is a movement of spiritual justice. We need the language of
those who can wed America's civil religion with Biblical prophetic
narrative. We need to expand that language so that it can include the
language and stories that are emerging from the antiwar, fair trade and
human rights movements. Together this language can form a unique new
narrative that has the power to inspire imagination and courage. A
language that call forth a new coalition powerful enough to leave behind
the mudpit and to enter the promise of a new beginning. A coalition that
understands that "we are the ones we are looking for". Indeed, the new
narrative will proclaim "God with us" not "God above us".
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5648.htm

The Dave
04-09-2005, 05:01 PM
> Xenos the Elder wrote:

The Dave wrote:
Xenos the Elder wrote: Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV The Catholic Church is... <snipped> Are we obsessed? I am not a catholic. So are you obsessed? With looking the other way while millions die because of the lies of an old ( now dead ) senile man? How you call this when somebody is killing people and you say " no no this is not true nobody got murdered ". The facts are there. Don't call a murderer a good man or even a very good man or even holy. What's holy about lying to people make them fear a nonexistent hell and let them die a death which could have been prevented? But who cares of those " niggers " we just don't use that word anymore but we are free to " think " it.

Wow. Such a long winded non-answer.

The Dave
04-09-2005, 05:01 PM
> Xenos the Elder wrote:
Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV The Catholic Church is... <snipped> Are we obsessed? About The Westboro Baptist Church At the funeral of gay murder victim Matthew Shepard, they held up signs reading "No Fags in Heaven" and "God Hates Fags." According to their Web site, they have staged "20,000" protests across the nation and around the world in... <snipped>

Fred Whatshisname, and his group, is hardly a good example to hold up
for the "evils" of religion. They're beyond extreme.

Dave in Lake Villa
04-09-2005, 06:05 PM
'The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not
to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the
HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.'

TRUE ! The holes in a latex condom measure 5 microns in diameter. HIV
is .1 microns . Guess who wins ? If youre putting your faith in a
condom to avoid AIDS and other STD's...then you have misplaced trust ;
over 40,000,000 americans are walking around with at least one STD---do
you feel lucky ? Theres no better time to readjust your sexual mores,
than now.

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 11:35 PM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:
>Vatican - condoms don't stop HIV>>The Catholic Church is...>><snipped>Are we obsessed?About The Westboro Baptist ChurchAt the funeral of gay murder victim Matthew Shepard, they held upsigns reading "No Fags in Heaven" and "God Hates Fags." According totheir Web site, they have staged "20,000" protests across the nationand around the world in...<snipped> Fred Whatshisname, and his group, is hardly a good example to hold up for the "evils" of religion. They're beyond extreme.

Whereby the pope is mainstream telling people not use condoms otherwise
they go to hell?
You have convinced me now.
Hating the jews for almost 2000 years was mainstream too.
Coming from a religion " preaching love ".
The killing of 900.000 orthodox in croatia during ww2 and the vatican
was a part of it was moral to.
Not to mention the collaboration with the nazi.
And helping 1000a of them to escape to South America.
I can clearly see that this is a good church for fascist and people who
like to discriminate.
How was it done with the Red Indians?
First you baptize them ......
and then you kill them.
They died at least as christians and didn't had to go to hell.
Yes this was really a good deed.

Xenos the Elder
04-09-2005, 11:41 PM
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

'The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.' TRUE ! The holes in a latex condom measure 5 microns in diameter. HIV is .1 microns . Guess who wins ? If youre putting your faith in a condom to avoid AIDS and other STD's...then you have misplaced trust ; over 40,000,000 americans are walking around with at least one STD---do you feel lucky ? Theres no better time to readjust your sexual mores, than now.

Condom spore sizes and HIV virus protection
Question from IAEN member on 6/25/2003:

I want to pin down the researcher (person and organisation and contact
details) that first discovered: the comparative sizes of: HIV/AIDS virus
- 4 microns; single sperm - 400 microns; Spores in latex condoms - 50
microns. The research resulted in the conclusion that up to 12 HIV/AIDS
virus can exit through the microscopic condom pores while sperms cannot.
The result is that pregnancies were more likely to be prevented while
AIDS is spread. Any help pointing in the right direction would be highly
appreciated.
Answers

Answer from IAEN, Researcher on 6/25/2003

We did a little research to find the person that discovered those sizes.
We found a C.M. Roland, who mentioned similar figures in a letter to the
editor of the Washington Times entitled "Do you want to stake your life
on a condom?" dated April 22, 1992 (full text available online for a
nominal charge at www.washtimes.com). Dr. Roland, then the editor of
"Rubber Chemistry and Technology", a journal published by the Rubber
Division of the American Chemical Society, stated that the rubber in
latex condoms has voids about 5 microns in size, while the AIDS virus is
only 0.1 micron. So it is essentially the same premise, he just had
slightly different figures. If you would like to contact Dr. Roland, it
appears that he is currently the Section Head of the Chemistry Division
at the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, DC. His contact
information is available to the public at the following URL:
http://chemdiv-www.nrl.navy.mil/6120/6126.html.

Answer from Dr.B.Z.Avah, AIDS Program/Project Manager on 7/12/2003

is it truew that the size of the pores in the latex condom is large
enough to allow the thorough passage of the HIV virus?

Answer from Michael Fox, France, Researcher on 3/30/2004

Useful to learn of a seemingly plausible source of the condoms have
pores or holes and can let the tiny HIV virus though allegation but I
think the answer (3/30/2004) to the original question (posted 6/25/2003)
could have included a summary note on why the CM Rowland study is not
accepted as valid for quality assured latex condoms in short (and I
admit in my possibly faulty memory and understanding), the latex
referred to in this study was that used for rubber gloves and not
condoms, which are made to much more exacting standards.

In addition, electron microscopy of condom latex has shown that there
are NO pores (sources include The Latex Condom: Recent Advances, Future
Directions. Family Health International, 1998, pg 9, book distributed by
WHO as part of the Male Latex Condom Manual) this in effect also
answers Dr B Z Avahs question (3/30/2004) in that (a) there are no
pores, their supposed existence is a dangerous myth or, worse,
deliberate misinformation and (b) male latex condoms are extremely
efficient barriers to HIV infection on this last point, pls see also
WHO/UNAIDS Information Note, Geneva, 16 August 2001- Effectiveness of
Latex Condoms,
http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/rtis/male_condom.html

Answer from Crystal Ericson, United States, Researcher on 8/27/2004

i have a comment about your french researcher. First off, anyone can use
the title researcher, there is nothing special about that but to the
untrained eye it can seem important enough to take their advice or
therory. second of all, here he is saying this beginning paper on
condoms was really about gloves but never gives you one drop of proof to
support his idea, infact he says and i quote
"(and I admit in my possibly faulty memory and understanding), the latex
referred to in this study was that used for rubber gloves and not condoms"

the origional paper had the word Condom IN THE TITLE, it mentioned
CONDOMS often in the paper and never mentioned the word GLOVE!

my sister saw this and instantly believed that the professional in the
origional paper was not talking about what he claimed to be talking
about because some mystery "researcher" said it was about something
else, even though he admits his memory is faulty and he isnt sure about
what the first artical was about, now shouldnt someone be putting the
french researcher in check!?
http://www.iaen.org/qa/answer/10756/

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 12:02 AM
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

'The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.' TRUE ! The holes in a latex condom measure 5 microns in diameter. HIV is .1 microns . Guess who wins ? If youre putting your faith in a condom to avoid AIDS and other STD's...then you have misplaced trust ; over 40,000,000 americans are walking around with at least one STD---do you feel lucky ? Theres no better time to readjust your sexual mores, than now.
For the Health of It
by Robert Benon
Question: An expert came to our class and said there are holes in
condoms that the AIDS virus can get through. Is this true? Uh-oh, A
High School Student

Answer: Thats a scary notion, but no, its basically not true. Another
scary notion is that sometimes experts come into our schools with
false or misleading information that gets teens to not bother with
condoms, while also not getting them to abstain.
Condoms dont typically have holes in them, any more than CDs usually
have skips in them. You might buy one once in a while thats defective,
but usually theyre OK. Since condoms are not perfect, though, you might
wisely choose to abstain from sex rather than take the chance.
But puh-leez, if you do have sex, use a condom. Cars are not perfectly
safe, either, so use a seatbelt when youre on the road.
Ive had teenagers ask for STD tests whove said they werent bothering
with condoms because some guest speaker had told them in class that the
AIDS virus can go through them as easily as students walk through the
hallways. It makes me want to holler. I mean, if such horror stories
make teens abstain, then lets just tell them that condoms release acid
if unrolled the wrong way.
But these kinds of scare tactics do not make teens put sex off till
later. The values and morals that seep into their souls from years of
living with Mom and Dad are what do that. Falsehoods or half-truths
about condoms (or pills) only increase kids risk of disease or
pregnancy when they do have sex. How awful for teens to get sexually
transmitted diseases or become pregnant because they paid attention to
someones message to mistrust condoms but not to the message to abstain.
Spreading false condom facts
So who told you about these supposed holes? I looked into this about 10
years ago and again just recently and found that some religion-based
organizations have been offering to talk in classrooms about the dangers
of sex. You can get details about this from Barbara Ferrys article in
The New Mexican on March 5, 1999. While well-intentioned, some of what
is said in their abstinence only programs is quite wrong.
For instance, there is an information sheet called Quick Facts About
Condoms, which guest speakers gave out not long ago at a local high
school (and possibly at other schools). Its labeled as being compiled
by the Albuquerque Pregnancy Center, distributed by Hope Pregnancy
Center (of Los Alamos)Funded in part by the Abstinence Only Grant from
the N.M. Department of Health.
It has several references to medical studies that support condom
effectiveness a lot more than the biased excerpts on the sheet make you
think they do. Moreover, the handout ignores the long-awaited 2001
report by the National Institutes of Health, which reviewed all the
best-done research and called condoms a highly effective barrier to
even the smallest STD germs.
Item 2 on the information sheet is what your question pertains to. It
claims that condoms have super-tiny holes (5 microns wide, way too small
to see) that are big enough for HIV to get through, and it gives as a
basis for this fact a June 1993 article by C. M. Roland in an obscure
journal called Rubber World. Yes, Virginia, there really is a Rubber World.
This is not a medical journal but an organ, so to speak, of the rubber
industry. By the way, this industry includes tires and such, not just
condoms. It was not easy to find this article, especially since the Hope
Pregnancy Center, an anti-abortion group, did not return my call asking
for specifics about the references cited on its flier.
Now get this: It turns out that Roland said in the article that the
5-micron holes were found only in latex gloves, not latex condoms! He
specifically points out that, unlike gloves, condoms are made by
DOUBLE-dipping with latex, which minimizes the probability of
through-going defects (holes, that is).
What do you think of that?
Item 2 of the fact sheet also cites a study in the journal Sexually
Transmitted Diseases, published in July 1992. The sheet claims that the
article says HIV-sized particles can leak through holes in condoms.
Again, it pays to look at the actual article. In it the researchers used
machines that reproduced the motions of sex, with fluid that contained
particles the size of the virus that causes AIDS. Heres what the
researchers actually wrote: A third of the condoms tested did finally
leak a tiny amount; however, the amount of particles that leaked would
be equal, at most, to just .01 percent of the amount of semen released
during sex with an infected man. And the researchers said that leakage
occurred only with 10 minutes of sex-like thrusting after the simulated
ejaculation by their doohickey machines. That is, the experiment
mimicked what might happen if a guy kept going with intercourse at full
throttle for 10 minutes after he came to orgasm. This is about as likely
as a guy deciding to use a rubber glove instead of a condom on his penis.
The researchers go on to say in this article that this amount of leakage
is so tiny that even the worst condoms would still result in 10,000
times less chance of passing the AIDS virus than with no condom at all!
(I also have a letter from the lead author of this article saying that
their test used fluids in their condoms with 100 million times more
HIV-sized particles than would be found in the semen of an infected man.
He said that by using condoms the expected exposure to HIV due to
leakage would be not more than a single HIV virus for every 90 condoms
used, and that wouldnt be enough to catch HIV.) The article concludes
that latex condoms can substantially reduce, but not eliminate, the
risk of HIV transmission. Not exactly what youd think from just
reading the fact sheet you got in class from the visitng experts.
One guest speaker told me that the article discussed above found bigger
holes in condoms. She quoted to me this sentence: The minimum pore
diameters detectable by this test range from 6 microns to 140 microns.
She was too unskilled at reading these scientific studies to realize
that this was describing the size of holes that a test (one not even
used in this experiment) was good enough to detect, NOT the size of
holes actually detected by the test.
Lies about the pill
I also found a video being used in abstinence-only classes called Time
to Wait for Sex by Pam Stenzel. She doesnt have a medical background
and, while her inspirations for abstinence are great, she says several
untrue things about birth control and STDs.
She says once you get a virus, you have it for life. This is true for
HIV and herpes but not for plenty of viruses such as colds and the STD
called human papilloma virus, or HPV. (For details of how HPV usually
goes away, check out this column in The New Mexican of Jan. 3.)
Stenzel implies that birth control pills cause an increase in STDs by 10
times. To a mom who would arrange for her daughter to get on the pill,
she says Thanks, mom. Now shes going to end up sterile or dead. In
fact, the pill dramatically reduces the chance of a girl becoming
sterile (unable to have kids). It does this by keeping chlamydia and
gonorrhea STD germs (if she catches them from a sexual partner) from
spreading up inside her reproductive tract, where they can cause pelvic
inflammatory disease and scarring of the fallopian tubes. Girls on the
pill are most certainly not more likely to die, and the pill gives them
lower rates of cancer of the uterus and ovaries and of deaths by future
tubal pregnancies. The pill also lowers the rates of a few other less
fatal illnesses.
Use protection;
listen to your parents
The biggest problem with condoms is that people having sex dont use
them. The study by the National Institutes of Health concluded that
condoms break or slip between 1.6 and 3.6 percent of the time. Another
problem is that some STDs (such as herpes and HPV) can spread by contact
with skin not covered by the condom.
The biggest problem with religion-based guest speakers is that, while
they know whats best morally, they dont always know the medical facts
about condoms and sexually transmitted diseases. Or maybe they ignore
all the evidence except that which fits the point of view they want you
to see.
And why on earth are abstinence only programs, which are funded by the
government specifically to avoid giving any information on condoms and
other birth control, allowed to give fact sheets that do talk about
birth control, but in negative and untrue ways?
Youll probably do just fine to follow the morals youve been taught by
your parents. Whenever the time does come that you decide to have sex,
please dont abandon the protection condoms and pills can offer you.


Questions can be mailed to The New Mexican, For The Health of It, 202 E.
Marcy St., Santa Fe, NM 87501; e-mailed to teens@sfnewmexican.com; or
phoned in to 986-3050.
http://www.sfgenerationnext.com/health/apr_11_03.htm

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 12:07 AM
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

'The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.' TRUE ! The holes in a latex condom measure 5 microns in diameter. HIV is .1 microns . Guess who wins ? If youre putting your faith in a condom to avoid AIDS and other STD's...then you have misplaced trust ; over 40,000,000 americans are walking around with at least one STD---do you feel lucky ? Theres no better time to readjust your sexual mores, than now.
And comes the truth you and all religious whackos like:
From Xt3 Christian Magazine ( from the flat earth people hearing voices
and so on )
-------------------------------------------------

Did you know.?

In 2002, over 40,000 British teenagers asked for treatment for a
sexually transmitted disease (STD for those in the know and you should
be). Thats over 750 per week and 160 every working day. These are the
most up to date figures the government have made available. Do you think
the figures have gone down since then? Somehow I don't think so.....

Whats really frightening is that most teenagers are completely ignorant
of the symptoms of STDs.

That means that for every person who is seeking treatment, there are
likely to be many more that should. Watch this space NHS and start
panicking now!

What is the government doing about this? Well, that depends where you
stand. If you think that young people are incapable of striving for
personal self control and dignity in the interest of a life-long
marriage, then quite a lot actually.

Condoms are freely available in schools

Theyre actively handing them out to 14-year-olds and teaching them how
to use them and hey, if that goes wrong, theres always the
morning-after pill or a visit down to the clinic for a termination.
All this advice and more freely available without parental consent.
There really isnt any reason to worry. Just go out there and enjoy
yourself! Its safe .. or is that safer?

What is the result? Well, since 1997, those under 20 seeking STD
treatment (not infection rate) has risen by over 60 per cent, from
25,143 to 40,821. As more people have sex, the infection rate is set to
spiral. I am afraid that if youre in London or the North west your
chances of infection (if you have serial sexual relations) are much
higher. No doubt best practice advice will be to relocate. Think
laterally!

One area where Britain really does lead in Europe is teenage pregnancy.
There is simply no other country that even comes close. Strangely
enough, the USA has put over 100m into teaching chastity in schools and
the teenage pregnancy rate has plummeted. However, I am sure theres no
connection.

But not many people know that condoms offer no protection against most
STDs?

Or, that the morning-after pill, handed out by some schools to girls as
young as 11, and contains six times more hormones than a normal
contraceptive pill? This is just one of many statistics about STDs you
need to know for your own safety. Below weve compiled a list of stats
from some research about sex and STDs youll rarely hear anywhere else.
Wed like to know what you think, so join our forum discussion:

DID YOU KNOW THAT. ?

Condoms are 85 per cent effective against AIDS but
They arent 100 per cent effective at preventing pregnancy. For every
100 couples who use a condom for one year, 14 will still get pregnant.
Bearing in mind that a woman is fertile for only 36 days a year, this is
pretty unimpressive
Condoms dont protect you from STDs including genital warts,
chlamydia, syphillis and genital herpes
Genital herpes can lead to cervical cancer
Chlamydia can make women infertile
Some American studies suggest that condoms protect men from infection
with gonorrhoea but not women
The width of the head of a normal human sperm is 2.5 to 3.5 microns, A
micron is one millionth of a metre
Most sexual viruses are much smaller than sperm
The AIDS virus is only 0.15 microns, and the hepatitis B virus is even
smaller
Some STDS can cause pelvic inflammatory disease
The viruses causing genital warts can also trigger changes in a
womans cervical cells, leading to cancer
The morning-after pill poses an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy..
(a pregnancy in the tubes which connect the womb to the ovaries
resulting in a serious medical condition)

If you're a student, next time condoms are being promoted in your
school, why don't you ask the nurse of doctor about some of these stats,
then tell us what they say!

In the meantime visit the chastity forum to post your views

Click here to order your free Xt3 Chastity card chastity@Xt3.com


You can find out more at www.spuc.org.uk , www.hli.org and www.lifeuk.org

2004 Xt3.com. All Rights Reserved.
For reprint permission contact reprint@Xt3.com
http://www.xt3.com/Magazine/Article.asp?ID=150

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 12:18 AM
Xenos the Elder wrote:

Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
..
And why on earth are abstinence only programs, which are funded by the government specifically

The theocracy at work.
USA government financing religious whackos.
to avoid giving any information on condoms and other birth control, allowed to give fact sheets that do talk about birth control, but in negative and untrue ways?
Wonder oh wonder.
Youll probably do just fine to follow the morals youve been taught by your parents. Whenever the time does come that you decide to have sex, please dont abandon the protection condoms and pills can offer you. Questions can be mailed to The New Mexican, For The Health of It, 202 E. Marcy St., Santa Fe, NM 87501; e-mailed to teens@sfnewmexican.com; or phoned in to 986-3050. http://www.sfgenerationnext.com/health/apr_11_03.htm

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 12:35 AM
Xenos the Elder wrote:
Bushs Reelection Ignites the Religious Right.

Do God's work by waging war in Iraq, and don't worry about the
environment since the "end of days" is near.

... Once Israel has occupied the rest of its biblical lands, legions
of the anti-Christ will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the
valley of Armageddon. As the Jews who have not been converted are
burned, the messiah will return for the rapture. True believers will be
lifted out of their clothes and transported to heaven, where, seated
next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and
religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts, and frogs
during the several years of tribulation that follow. ..

Im not making this up. Ive reported on these people, following some
of them from Texas to the West Bank. They are sincere, serious, and
polite as they tell you they feel called to help bring the rapture on as
fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Thats why they have declared
solidarity with Israel and the Jewish settlements and backed up their
support with money and volunteers. Its why the invasion of Iraq for
them was a warm-up act, predicted in the Book of Revelations.... A war
with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed
-- an essential conflagration on the road to redemption.

And there is official support in Washington for these Apocalyptic views.
According to an article by Glenn Scherer in Grist, House Majority Leader
Tom Delay -- a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an
End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans

... Why care about the earth when the droughts, floods, famine and
pestilence brought by ecological collapse are signs of the apocalypse
foretold in the Bible? Why care about global climate change when you and
yours will be rescued in the rapture? ..

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18756
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/...article&sid=980

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Xenos the Elder wrote:


Do God's work by waging war in Iraq, and don't worry about the
environment since the "end of days" is near.
By Gerald Rellick

It appears that members of the Religious Right feel empowered these days
following the reelection of their man, George W. Bush. In addition to
the usual social and cultural issues that incite these people, they also
have strong views on the war in Iraq and the environment.

In a speech at Harvard Medical School, Bill Moyers lamented the twisted
views of many on the Religious Right. Moyers writes that these are
people who subscribe to the fundamentalist doctrine of the Apocalypse
and the related Rapture, which concepts [are] rather simple, if bizarre....

Once Israel has occupied the rest of its biblical lands, legions of
the anti-Christ will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the
valley of Armageddon. As the Jews who have not been converted are
burned, the messiah will return for the rapture. True believers will be
lifted out of their clothes and transported to heaven, where, seated
next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and
religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts, and frogs
during the several years of tribulation that follow.

Moyers continues:

Im not making this up. Ive reported on these people, following some
of them from Texas to the West Bank. They are sincere, serious, and
polite as they tell you they feel called to help bring the rapture on as
fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Thats why they have declared
solidarity with Israel and the Jewish settlements and backed up their
support with money and volunteers. Its why the invasion of Iraq for
them was a warm-up act, predicted in the Book of Revelations.... A war
with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed
-- an essential conflagration on the road to redemption.

And there is official support in Washington for these Apocalyptic views.
According to an article by Glenn Scherer in Grist, House Majority Leader
Tom Delay -- a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an
End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans -- was present at a fire
and brimstone sermon at John Hagees San Antonio-based Cornerstone
Church in 2002 when Hagee told his congregation, The war between
America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse. After Hagees
sermon, Delay was quoted as saying, Ladies and gentlemen, what has been
spoken here tonight is the truth from God.

In Delays view, and those of others End-timers, our soldiers are being
thrown into combat to help fulfill a two-thousand year old Biblical
prophecy that intelligent people know to be myth. Its true that since
WMD and a connection to al Qaeda have both been discredited, George
Bushs rationale for the war in Iraq has been forced to shift to higher
ground. But Bush has yet to lay this one on the American people.
Perhaps this will come after the Iraq democracy experiment fails.

The Environment

The Religious Rights position on care of the environment, Scherer
explains, is much like their view on the war in Iraq. Many
fundamentalists feel that environmental destruction is not only to be
disregarded but actually welcomed -- even hastened -- as a sign of the
coming Apocalypse. As Scherer puts it:

Why care about the earth when the droughts, floods, famine and
pestilence brought by ecological collapse are signs of the apocalypse
foretold in the Bible? Why care about global climate change when you and
yours will be rescued in the rapture? And why care about converting from
oil to solar when the same God who performed the miracle of the loaves
and fishes can whip up a few billion barrels of light crude with a word?

Scherer reports that in the 2000 election, the Christian Right cast
about 15 million votes, and Karl Rove was shooting for 20 million in
this last election. Beyond its voting strength, the Christian Right
already has considerable power in place in the form of members of
Congress who are also End-Time believers. The two most powerful of
these are House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (again!) and Senate
Environment and Public Works Committee Chair James Inhofe of Oklahoma.
Both have expressed their scorn for environmental protection. According
to Scherer, DeLay has fought to gut the Clean Air and Endangered
Species acts. [And] Inhofe invited a stacked deck of fossil- fuel-funded
climate-change skeptics to testify at a Senate hearing that climaxed
with him calling global warming the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on
the American people.

And Inhofe once stated to a religious publication, I dont believe
there is a single issue we deal with in government that hasnt been
dealt with in the Scriptures.

Two measures of the anti-environment stance among legislators are the
rankings given to them by certain major advocacy groups. To no ones
surprise, Inhofe scored a 100 percent rating in 2003 from the three
major Christian-right advocacy groups, while earning only a five percent
rating from the League of Conservation Voters. And of nine Republicans
on Inhofes Senate committee, eight earned an average 94 percent
approval rating in 2003 from the Christian right, while scoring only
four percent on the environmental approval rating. And Delay and Inhofe
are not alone. Scherer notes that 231 U.S. legislators either believe
apocalyptic End-Time doctrine or, for political expediency, are happy
to align themselves with those who do.

A Darker Agenda

While the fundamentalist religious views held are to some degree
probably genuine, there is also a darker side to these legislators
anti-environment agenda: nearly all of them have strong ties to the
energy industry. Inhofe, writes Scherer, received more than $558,000
from the fossil-fuel industry, electric utilities, mining, and other
natural-resource interests, according to the Center for Responsive
Politics. Eight of the nine other Republican members of Inhofes
committee received an average of $408,000 per senator from the energy
and natural resource sector over the same period. By contrast, the eight
committee Democrats and one Independent came away with an average of
just $132,000 per senator from that same sector since 1999.

This is tie that binds -- Jesus merging with the energy industry to
clear the land and despoil the air and water, or what Alexander Zaitchik
calls the synchronicity between God and chainsaw. Writing in the New
York Press, Zaitchik puts it all in good perspective:

Southern evangelicals set the social agenda at the grassroots level,
while secular forces in the north (and west) set the economic and
foreign policy agendas. These policies are then fed back to the
religious base through industry-subsidized Christian Right leaders in
Congress and the media, who reinforce the idea that pollution controls
are part of the same godless liberal plot that wants gay porn and
home-abortion kits distributed in the public school system.

It was twenty years ago that James Watt, Ronald Reagans first Secretary
of the Interior, testified before Congress, dismissing care of natural
resources, explaining that after the last tree is felled, Christ will
come back. Watt resigned shortly thereafter. Who would have thought
that Watts sick vision would come back to haunt us at a time when the
United States should be leading the world in environmental stewardship?
Polls have consistently shown that Americans favor strong environmental
protection laws. We need to send a message to Washington that
representative democracy is still alive in this country, and that
rejecting the will of the people is a dangerous path to walk.

Gerald S. Rellick, Ph.D., worked in the defense sector of the aerospace
industry. He now teaches in the California Community College system. To
send Jerry your comments, send an email to info@interventionmag.com
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=980

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 12:56 AM
Xenos the Elder wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/668ke
Evolution vs. Creationism

Xenos the Elder
04-10-2005, 01:07 AM
Xenos the Elder wrote:

By Jim Bush

The truth is not hidden
But are the people willing to see it?

The truth rings a bell
But are the people willing to hear it?

The truth is an open book
But are the people willing to read it?

The truth hurts
But are the people willing to feel it?

The truth will out
But are people willing to act on it?

The truth is a dirty lie
But are the people willing to wash their hands of it?

The truth is in song, a sigh, or the slip of a tongue
It speaks through a child, a cannon, or a speech in a campaign

The truth is a candle lit, a light turned on, and a document discovered
It comes out of the shadows, encourages the heart, and frees the spirit

The truth cannot be denied, debated, or dashed on the rocks of disaster
It is in the sun rising, the moon setting, and the tides turning

The truth is ever present, available, and obvious
It is not hidden

Jim Bush is an Army veteran who lives in Portland, Oregon.

Posted Sunday, January 8, 2004

The Dave
04-10-2005, 02:00 PM
> Xenos the Elder wrote:
Fred Whatshisname, and his group, is hardly a good example to hold up for the "evils" of religion. They're beyond extreme. Whereby the pope is mainstream telling people not use condoms otherwise they go to hell? You have convinced me now. Hating the jews for almost 2000 years was mainstream too. Coming from a religion " preaching love ". The killing of 900.000 orthodox in croatia during ww2 and the vatican was a part of it was moral to. Not to mention the collaboration with the nazi. And helping 1000a of them to escape to South America. I can clearly see that this is a good church for fascist and people who like to discriminate. How was it done with the Red Indians? First you baptize them ...... and then you kill them. They died at least as christians and didn't had to go to hell. Yes this was really a good deed.

You missed the point, but with the depth of your obsession it's not
surprising.

I'm glad you're finally convinced. ;-)

Xenos the Elder
04-11-2005, 09:12 AM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:
Fred Whatshisname, and his group, is hardly a good example to holdup for the "evils" of religion. They're beyond extreme.Whereby the pope is mainstream telling people not use condomsotherwise they go to hell? You have convinced me now.Hating the jews for almost 2000 years was mainstream too.Coming from a religion " preaching love ".The killing of 900.000 orthodox in croatia during ww2 and the vaticanwas a part of it was moral to. Not to mention the collaboration withthe nazi. And helping 1000a of them to escape to South America.I can clearly see that this is a good church for fascist and peoplewho like to discriminate. How was it done with the Red Indians?First you baptize them ......and then you kill them.They died at least as christians and didn't had to go to hell.Yes this was really a good deed. You missed the point, but with the depth of your obsession it's not surprising. I'm glad you're finally convinced. ;-)

You are obsessed with religion that you cant see a truck even if it hits
you. Your bible is full of lies and contradiction and you belong to a
church which has done more harm then good to humanity.
Your pope was just continuing the old tradition of spreading lies and fears.
I am happier with the truth may you be happier with a lying church and pope.

The Dave
04-11-2005, 10:28 AM
> Xenos the Elder wrote:
You missed the point, but with the depth of your obsession it's not surprising. I'm glad you're finally convinced. ;-) You are obsessed with religion that you cant see a truck even if it hits you. Your bible is full of lies and contradiction and you belong to a church which has done more harm then good to humanity. Your pope was just continuing the old tradition of spreading lies and fears. I am happier with the truth may you be happier with a lying church and pope.

LOL!!! You're way too much fun. Where did I state my beliefs? I only
commented on your beliefs and your seeming crusade concerning those
beliefs.

rj
04-11-2005, 10:59 AM
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:28:07 GMT, The Dave <no@no.com> wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:
You missed the point, but with the depth of your obsession it's not surprising. I'm glad you're finally convinced. ;-) You are obsessed with religion that you cant see a truck even if it hits you. Your bible is full of lies and contradiction and you belong to a church which has done more harm then good to humanity. Your pope was just continuing the old tradition of spreading lies and fears. I am happier with the truth may you be happier with a lying church and pope.LOL!!! You're way too much fun. Where did I state my beliefs? I onlycommented on your beliefs and your seeming crusade concerning thosebeliefs.

LOL...

Ol' Xenos isn't interested in your beliefs. His conception of
theology in general is just a sort of cartoon and he's not at all
interested in learning anything different. He *likes* his cartoon,
probably because it's simple and he can understand it. It's like a
white racist's conception of what black folks are like... Dem
Christians be jes' all a shufflin' an' a grinnin' an' eatin' dat
watermellon...

<grin>

Halleluya!

And besides, as long as he believes that his cartoon is real, it gives
him a handy outlet for his hatred.

rj

Xenos the Elder
04-11-2005, 12:54 PM
rj wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:28:07 GMT, The Dave <no@no.com> wrote:
Xenos the Elder wrote:>You missed the point, but with the depth of your obsession it's not>surprising.>>I'm glad you're finally convinced. ;-)You are obsessed with religion that you cant see a truck even if ithits you. Your bible is full of lies and contradiction and you belongto a church which has done more harm then good to humanity. Yourpope was just continuing the old tradition of spreading lies andfears. I am happier with the truth may you be happier with a lyingchurch and pope.LOL!!! You're way too much fun. Where did I state my beliefs? I onlycommented on your beliefs and your seeming crusade concerning thosebeliefs. LOL... Ol' Xenos isn't interested in your beliefs. His conception of theology in general is just a sort of cartoon and he's not at all interested in learning anything different. He *likes* his cartoon, probably because it's simple and he can understand it. It's like a white racist's conception of what black folks are like... Dem Christians be jes' all a shufflin' an' a grinnin' an' eatin' dat watermellon... <grin> Halleluya! And besides, as long as he believes that his cartoon is real, it gives him a handy outlet for his hatred.

Christianity has been hating the jews blaming the entire jewish people
for murdering Jesus.
You use the word hate because you are full of hate yourself.
I am only against lies ans mass murder.
rj
I am against stupidity of religion.
Can donkeys fly? Yes they can if you are religious.
----------------------------
I posted my thread "Adam and Eve Question" about the lineage of Adam and
Eve's offspring, as written in Genesis 6, and asked the Christians here
to come up with an answer. As of yet, they have not, so I will repeat
the question. Atheists, you need not respond to this.

Is the Christian God for incest and inbreeding?

According to Genesis, after God made man and then made woman from man,
they had two kids, Cain and Abel. Then the writers got a bit hazy about
what happened afterwards. Cain suddenly killed Abel. So, at this time,
there are three people on earth; the ousted Cain, Adam, and Eve. Am I
right?

Suddenly, Cain marries an unnamed woman in Genesis 4:17 in the land of
Nod and they had a child named Enoch. From this unnamed woman and Cain,
presumably become the population of Earth.

Now, I wonder. If all these names (Irad, Mehujael, Methushael, Lamech,
etc.) were painstakingly written down, why does Cain's wife remain unnamed?

It simply reads, after God exiled Cain to Nod:

"Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to
Enoch. (Gen 4:17)

Who, pray tell, is "his wife"? At the time of ousting, there should've
been only three people on the earth. Cain, a male, Adam, a male, and
Eve, a female. So, what, he married Eve, his mother and had Enoch by her?

And the fuzziness continues. Enoch, a male, vicariously had a son named
Irad... by whom? Eve again? By Genesis 4:19, Lamech (another in the
line of males, presumably by Eve), married TWO women. Their names? Adah
and Zillah. Where did Adah and Zillah come from?

I'm sure the Christians here could help me on this.

Xenos the Elder
04-11-2005, 12:58 PM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:
You missed the point, but with the depth of your obsession it's notsurprising.I'm glad you're finally convinced. ;-)You are obsessed with religion that you cant see a truck even if ithits you. Your bible is full of lies and contradiction and you belongto a church which has done more harm then good to humanity. Yourpope was just continuing the old tradition of spreading lies andfears. I am happier with the truth may you be happier with a lyingchurch and pope. LOL!!! You're way too much fun. Where did I state my beliefs? I only commented on your beliefs and your seeming crusade concerning those beliefs.

You are defending a pope who has blood on his hands and you use words a
right wing christian would use plus there is one guy who knows you from
some other groups and he is considering you a fundamentalist christian.
We can play the game as long as you want.

The Dave
04-11-2005, 02:00 PM
> Xenos the Elder wrote:
LOL!!! You're way too much fun. Where did I state my beliefs? I only commented on your beliefs and your seeming crusade concerning those beliefs. You are defending a pope who has blood on his hands and you use words a right wing christian would use plus there is one guy who knows you from some other groups and he is considering you a fundamentalist christian. We can play the game as long as you want.

Do you make this stuff up as you go along? <shakes head in wonder>

Xenos the Elder
04-11-2005, 02:46 PM
The Dave wrote:

Xenos the Elder wrote:
LOL!!! You're way too much fun. Where did I state my beliefs? Ionly commented on your beliefs and your seeming crusade concerningthose beliefs.You are defending a pope who has blood on his hands and you use wordsa right wing christian would use plus there is one guy who knows youfrom some other groups and he is considering you a fundamentalistchristian. We can play the game as long as you want. Do you make this stuff up as you go along? <shakes head in wonder>
Why you keep on replying when the only thing I am against it is telling
lies to people which are killing them?
I don't care who you are.
If you would have guts you would say what you are standing for it but I
see you just keep on responding to me.
No problem.
I can play

Nearl J Icarus
04-12-2005, 03:09 AM
In article <EAA6e.2904$cV4.1401@reader1.news.jippii.net>, askme@forit.net
says...

what happened afterwards. Cain suddenly killed Abel. So, at this time,there are three people on earth; the ousted Cain, Adam, and Eve. Am Iright?

Not really. Too bad with this vigorous study of Genesis, you missed Gen 5:4.
Its easy to understand how you missed a verse thats only a few pages from the
start.

I'm sure the Christians here could help me on this.

Kinda pointless. You are beyond any kind of help. You're not looking for any
kind of help. You're just turning into the mockery that you are so intent on
exposing.

Complete Labor Law Poster for $24.95
from www.LaborLawCenter.com, includes
State, Federal, & OSHA posting requirements