member6856 <member6856@britishexpats.com> writes:
Any other dual citizens know the best order to show your passports?

Which passport to use at immigration leaving Britain? (I suppose British)

I've done this many times. I use my (red) UK passport to enter the UK,
and my (blue) US passport to enter the US. When I check in for my flight
from the US to the UK I give the airline my UK passport details. On the
UK-US flight, I give them my US passport details.

Nobody has raised an eyebrow (well, the airline will occasionally ask
for my I-94 or green card when I give them my UK passport, but when I
say "dual citizen" they are happy enough).

Thanks Helen, but when I purchased my ticket I put in US citizen. Also,
shouldn't you really leave the country as a US citizen (as asked to)
since US immigration will see you coming back in, but not having left?



Originally posted by Helen Rose
member6856 <member6856@britishexpats.com> writes:

Any other dual citizens know the best order to show your passports?


Which passport to use at immigration leaving Britain? (I suppose
British)

I've done this many times. I use my (red) UK passport to enter the UK,
and my (blue) US passport to enter the US. When I check in for my flight
from the US to the UK I give the airline my UK passport details. On the
UK-US flight, I give them my US passport details.

Nobody has raised an eyebrow (well, the airline will occasionally ask
for my I-94 or green card when I give them my UK passport, but when I

say "dual citizen" they are happy enough).


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Guidelines when travelling with a US and British passport:

1. Always show your US passport to US immigration officials.

2. It's usually best to show a British passport to British
immigration officials, but if you are only visiting the UK you can use
your US passport if you wish.

3. The airline is usually interested in your immigration status in
the destination country, so show that passport.

4. Neither Britain nor the US have systematic exit immigration checks
although that could well change.

5. With increasing use of matching passports to passenger lists, you
should be sure to show at destination the same passport as you boarded
the flight (subject to always showing a US passport to US immigration,
no matter what).

6. When in a third country, always show to immigration officials on
exit the same passport you used to enter the country, unless there's a
good reason you can explain (eg other passport stolen).

7. There's no need to volunteer the fact you're a dual citizen, but
don't try to hide it if questioned.

Jeremy
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:25:57 +0000, jaytee <member6856@britishexpats.com> wrote:Thanks Helen, but when I purchased my ticket I put in US citizen. Also,shouldn't you really leave the country as a US citizen (as asked to)since US immigration will see you coming back in, but not having left?

This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction

Thank you Jaj. The confusion I have is in regard to showing a different
passport at boarding, but I guess that is OK.



Originally posted by Jaj
Guidelines when travelling with a US and British passport:

1. Always show your US passport to US immigration officials.

2. It's usually best to show a British passport to British
immigration officials, but if you are only visiting the UK you can use
your US passport if you wish.

3. The airline is usually interested in your immigration status in
the destination country, so show that passport.

4. Neither Britain nor the US have systematic exit immigration checks
although that could well change.

5. With increasing use of matching passports to passenger lists, you
should be sure to show at destination the same passport as you boarded
the flight (subject to always showing a US passport to US immigration,
no matter what).

6. When in a third country, always show to immigration officials on
exit the same passport you used to enter the country, unless there's a
good reason you can explain (eg other passport stolen).

7. There's no need to volunteer the fact you're a dual citizen, but
don't try to hide it if questioned.

Jeremy

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:25:57 +0000, jaytee <member6856@britishexpats.com> wrote:
Thanks Helen, but when I purchased my ticket I put in US citizen. Also,
shouldn't you really leave the country as a US citizen (as asked to)
since US immigration will see you coming back in, but not having left?


This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Thanks Helen, but when I purchased my ticket I put in US citizen. Also, shouldn't you really leave the country as a US citizen (as asked to)

US law requires a US citizen to have his US passport in his
possession when leaving the US, but there is no actual
"using" of a US passport on departure since there is no
official government passport inspection when leaving.

When you leave you simply have to have it with you. It would
not be contrary to US law to present a non-US passport
to the airline check-in agent or to show it at the gate to
prove your identity.

When ENTERING the US, you must present your US passport
to the immigration inspector since that is required.
since US immigration will see you coming back in, but not having left?

US immigration does not match up the arrivals of US citizens with
previous departures. Since there are no official departure controls
there is no official recording of departures.

Stephen Gallagher

The issue of which passport to use can be reduced to a few simple
rules:

1. When leaving or returning to any country of which you are a
citizen, show the immigration officials of that country your passport
for that country!

(US immigration officials--show them your US passport, British
immigration officials--show them your UK passport, regardless of your
reasons for entering or leaving either country.)

2. When traveling to a country of which you are not a citizen, choose
just one of your passports to show immigration officials of that
country, whether entering, leaving, or traveling inside the country.

3. Lastly, as Jeremy stated, submit to the airlines and purchase
tickets using the passport you will use at your destination, which
should be decided using rule 1 or 2 above.

(This last rule means when purchasing round trip tickets for entering
and returning to two countries of which you are a citizen, if asked by
the airline, you should tell them you are going to use two different
passports.)

If dual citizens would strictly follow these rules when crossing
borders, their dual citizenship status would be a non-issue 99 percent
of the time.

The following web page briefly explains why Rule 1 and 2 should be
followed for passport use and has other info. related to naturalized
dual citizens: http://www.newcitizen.us/dual.html

Hank




jaj116@hotmail.com (JAJ) wrote in message news:<3f56596d.25127788@news.syd.ihug.com.au>... Guidelines when travelling with a US and British passport: 1. Always show your US passport to US immigration officials. 2. It's usually best to show a British passport to British immigration officials, but if you are only visiting the UK you can use your US passport if you wish. 3. The airline is usually interested in your immigration status in the destination country, so show that passport. 4. Neither Britain nor the US have systematic exit immigration checks although that could well change. 5. With increasing use of matching passports to passenger lists, you should be sure to show at destination the same passport as you boarded the flight (subject to always showing a US passport to US immigration, no matter what). 6. When in a third country, always show to immigration officials on exit the same passport you used to enter the country, unless there's a good reason you can explain (eg other passport stolen). 7. There's no need to volunteer the fact you're a dual citizen, but don't try to hide it if questioned. Jeremy

I have spoken to numerous people who, for sport, have tried to game
the system. I have also discussed the issue with government officials
familiar with pre-arrival manifest checking.

1. When you first present your passport to the airline it will be
entered into the computer and the airline will expect the same
passport to be presented on the return leg.

2. You can show any visa waiver passport on first check-in if your
journey begins outside the USA, however you are supposed to (by law)
show the US passport (if you have one or are eligible to have one) to
the immigration inspector in the US gateway.

3. Upon departure, if you show the handling agent a foreign passport,
you will be asked for the stub of your I-94 or your green card. Some
agents will be satisfied if you explain you also have a US passport.
More correctly, the agent should see your US passport and enter the
information into the computer.

4. It is generally easier all around to show airline officials only
the US passport, and immigration inspectors only the passport native
to their country.

5. All flights are subject to manifest check while still in the air.
Generally speaking, visa waiver passport holders are given little
attention unless they have an Arab name (and I wonder how
sophisticated the anti-terror police are in discerning Christian Arab
from Muslim Arab names. But I digress.)

6. In theory the US immigration service computer can find US citizen
passport holders whose names and birth dates match those on foreign
passports. In practice I don't know of any instance in which someone
has been accused of being an American citizen when he presented a
foreign passport. It probably has happened, though. A US consular
section FSN told me the other day that occasionally the
foreign-national infant of a US citizen parent is provisionally
refused entry on the grounds that he "probably" is a US citizen and
ought to be traveling on a US passport. (There are several plausible
reasons why he would not be a US citizen: (a) his US citizen parent
did not have sufficient residence in the USA to transmit nationality,
(b) he was adopted at a time when that did not afford US nationality).
Notwithstanding that US law presumes alienage of a person born outside
the USA, the practice is reasonable in view of the fact that present
law requires the consent of both parents to the issuance of a passport
to a child under 14 years of age -- if and only if paternity has been
legally established.

See, e.g., Delvoye v. Lee, 329 F.3d 330(3d Cir. 2003)
http://snurl.com/delvoye
United States v. Amer, 110 F.3d 873 (2d Cir. 1997)
http://snurl.com/ahmed

Also the issue of refusal of passport when child support arrearage
exceeds $5,000:
Eunique v. Powell, 2002 U.S. App. LEXIS 17612
http://snurl.com/eunique

blatt987 <blatt987@hotmail.com> writes:
1. When you first present your passport to the airline it will be entered into the computer and the airline will expect the same passport to be presented on the return leg.

But they will cope just fine if you present a different passport. The
airline computer systems can deal with different passport details on
different legs of the trip.
3. Upon departure, if you show the handling agent a foreign passport, you will be asked for the stub of your I-94 or your green card. Some agents will be satisfied if you explain you also have a US passport. More correctly, the agent should see your US passport and enter the information into the computer.

The agent might ask for the I-94 or the green card, or they might
not. And where do you get "more correctly"? The US Government only
requires you to be in possession of your US passport, it does not
require the airline to note that information on all legs of your trip
(Section 215(b) of the INA [8*USC §*1185(b)]).

If I intend to fly to any EEA country, when I depart the US I will not
show my US passport. It only confuses the agent.

Earlier this year, my husband and I had a trip where we flew US -> France
-> UK -> France -> US. On the passport checks in France and the UK
(since we had to enter the Schengen area, we had to pass immigration),
we showed only our EEA passports. The only time our US passports came
out of our bags was when we checked in for our final leg at CDG.
4. It is generally easier all around to show airline officials only the US passport, and immigration inspectors only the passport native to their country.

"Easier all around"? Where do you get this? I consider it more proper to
give the airline the passport details which I will use when I enter the
country of my destination. Again, when I enter an EEA country I will use
an EEA passport. There are other countries where I visit where I might
also be likely to show my EEA passport (countries which don't require
advanced visas, or have more liberal visa waiver programmes for holders
of EEA passports).
A US consular section FSN told me the other day that occasionally the foreign-national infant of a US citizen parent is provisionally refused entry on the grounds that he "probably" is a US citizen and ought to be traveling on a US passport.

Which is why it's always good practice to ensure clean immigration
status for all parties when travelling. For example, should my husband
(who has both US and Irish passports) and myself (UK, Irish, US) ever
have children, I will ensure that they hold their full complement of
passports when we travel. And again, when we enter the US, only their US
passports matter.

Rich Wales' excellent Dual Citizenship FAQ page says that US citizens
under the age of 12 do not need their own US passports. I don't know if
that's still the case post 2001-09-11, but I'll defer to Rich's
knowledge.

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

"Stephen C. Gallagher" <stephenblock.gallaghermail@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<ySw5b.367648$4UE.311749@news01.bloor.is.net.cable. rogers.com>...
When you leave you simply have to have it with you. It would not be contrary to US law to present a non-US passport to the airline check-in agent or to show it at the gate to prove your identity.

Someone I know recently checked in for a flight with a US ppt then
popped it in the mail with a ppt renewal application and continued
abroad with a foreign ppt. When the new US ppt arrived at a US
address, it was couriered to that person.

Reason: the traveler wanted a domestically-issued ppt (serial number
starting with "2") rather than a consulate-issed ppt (starting with
"7") even though the passports are otherwise identical, and the fact
of consular issuance not otherwise apparent.

8 U.S.C. § 1185(b)
"(b) Citizens
"Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such
limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and
prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States
to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the
United States unless he bears a valid United States passport."

It is under the "Western Hemisphere exception" established by the
State Department that travel in North, Central and South America,
except Cuba, is allowed without a passport.
See 22 C.F.R. 53.2
http://snurl.com/westhem
(discussed, in connection with the John Allen Muhammad case, at
www.house.gov/judiciary/87092.PDF )

blatt987@hotmail.com (Blatt) wrote in message news:<da3051d8.0309070623.6a7619c6@posting.google.com>... "Stephen C. Gallagher" <stephenblock.gallaghermail@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<ySw5b.367648$4UE.311749@news01.bloor.is.net.cable. rogers.com>... When you leave you simply have to have it with you. It would not be contrary to US law to present a non-US passport to the airline check-in agent or to show it at the gate to prove your identity. Someone I know recently checked in for a flight with a US ppt then popped it in the mail with a ppt renewal application and continued abroad with a foreign ppt. When the new US ppt arrived at a US address, it was couriered to that person.

That would mean that unless this person travelled solely within
the western hemisphere, then he violated the requirement
to have his passport in his possession when he left the US.
Reason: the traveler wanted a domestically-issued ppt (serial number starting with "2") rather than a consulate-issed ppt (starting with "7") even though the passports are otherwise identical, and the fact of consular issuance not otherwise apparent.

OK, whatever. Wouldn't the place of issue be listed in the passport?

Stephen Gallagher

depending on where he went (hemisphere exception), it sounds like
since he departed without a US passport, he formally violated the
language of the law. sending it back from out of the country doesn't
seem to violate it.

On 7 Sep 2003 07:23:50 -0700, Blatt wrote:
Someone I know recently checked in for a flight with a US ppt thenpopped it in the mail with a ppt renewal application and continuedabroad with a foreign ppt. When the new US ppt arrived at a USaddress, it was couriered to that person.
8 U.S.C. § 1185(b)"(b) Citizens"Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to suchlimitations and exceptions as the President may authorize andprescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United Statesto depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, theUnited States unless he bears a valid United States passport."

sgallagher@rogers.com (Stephen Gallagher) wrote in message news:<64faa06d.0309071021.27873c97@posting.google.com>...
That would mean that unless this person travelled solely within the western hemisphere, then he violated the requirement to have his passport in his possession when he left the US.

Arguably. I have never seen the 60 day rule enforced (i.e., that you
have to stay in Canada for 60 days before traveling onwards beyond the
Western Hemisphere without your U.S. ppt.

And given Zemel v. Rusk
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/381/1.html
and Regan v. Wald
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/468/222.html
the rule might be immune from attack. But compare Worthy v. United
States, 328 F.2d 386 (5th Cir. 1964).

But what federal prosecutor is going to waste his time arguing over
what "have in his possession when he left the U.S." means. Taken on
board the flight? There are bank robbers, tax evaders, robber barons
stealing from pension funds ... all these meriting greater priority
for prosecutors.
OK, whatever. Wouldn't the place of issue be listed in the passport?

All US passports, except emergency passports, are marked simply as
issued by "National Passport Center" no matter where the application
was made. All are manufactured in the same place, all 7 million a
year. I wouldn't have said what I said if it weren't accurate; it
would have been qualified as upon information and belief, or
something.

On 07/09/03 20:25, in article jd1nlvsh42pkqv8et6p58813prhlssjbrf@4ax.com,
"Gerhard Fiedler" <nospam@globo.com.REMOVE> wrote:
depending on where he went (hemisphere exception), it sounds like since he departed without a US passport, he formally violated the language of the law. sending it back from out of the country doesn't seem to violate it.

It's not a law but a regulation. Ergo, susceptible to attack or
re-interpretation in the courts.

De minimus no curat lex.

Helen Rose wrote:
Rich Wales' excellent Dual Citizenship FAQ page says that US citizens under the age of 12 do not need their own US passports.

"Blatt" replied:
Except that if that's what he said, he's wrong.

And, in fact, I did NOT say what Helen Rose said I said. What I
did say was that 22 CFR 53.2(f) allows a US citizen who is a child
under age 12 to enter the US without a US passport if he/she is
included in the foreign passport of an alien parent and some other
evidence of the child's US citizenship is available.

It should be noted, BTW, that 22 CFR 53.2(f) probably won't help
if an airline refuses to allow you to take advantage of it. I've
been told, for example, that at least one airline routinely refuses
to allow US-born children of Indian parents to board US-bound
flights without US passports; parents attempting to invoke 22 CFR
53.2(f) when dealing with that airline have done so in vain and
have ended up having to change their travel plans and/or get US
passports for their children on a "rush" basis.

Rich Wales richw@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.