Exercising my Franchise [Archive]

sphyrapicus

11-02-2004, 07:24 AM

At 6:50 this morning, prior to going to work, Sheila and I went to our local polling station and voted. Now I feel like an American! Vote well... vote often! Ian

Congratulations Ian.

I went with my wife this morning while she voted. I *could* have voted
if I wanted to break the law. It was unbelievable. All that people had
to do when they walked in was state their name so it could be crossed
off a list. So, if you knew of someone who was registered to vote you
could just say their name. Then, everyone goes to a table with two very
nice women sitting there. They handed a ballot to everyone that just
came from the area where you had your name crossed off the list. There
was no verification that a given person just had their name crossed off.
In fact, they started to hand me a ballot until I refused. What would be
to stop me from coming in the door every hour and voting? Or using my
neighbor's name? Talk about a potential for fraud. Sheesh.

It's like someone said on NPR yesterday, you need more proof of id to
write a check at the grocery store than you need to vote. Go figure. I
hope other polling stations are more rigid in their requirements. So
much for election reform...

Sphy (waiting another 4 years until he can excercise his franchise) :(

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Pallyn

11-02-2004, 07:44 AM

Congratulations Ian. I went with my wife this morning while she voted. I *could* have voted if I wanted to break the law. It was unbelievable. All that people had to do when they walked in was state their name so it could be crossed off a list. So, if you knew of someone who was registered to vote you could just say their name. Then, everyone goes to a table with two very nice women sitting there. They handed a ballot to everyone that just came from the area where you had your name crossed off the list. There was no verification that a given person just had their name crossed off. In fact, they started to hand me a ballot until I refused. What would be to stop me from coming in the door every hour and voting? Or using my neighbor's name? Talk about a potential for fraud. Sheesh. It's like someone said on NPR yesterday, you need more proof of id to write a check at the grocery store than you need to vote. Go figure. I hope other polling stations are more rigid in their requirements. So much for election reform... Sphy (waiting another 4 years until he can excercise his franchise) :(

Our system is a little more stringent. You give your name to a person
who has a huge book of computer printouts. Since I'm hyphenated, I have
to explain to look in the book under the first half of the last name
(that's how I am generally alphabetized) and sign. They have my
signature from previous elections to compare to. If you are voting for
the first time, you have to present picture id.

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inquisitive40

11-02-2004, 08:26 AM

Our system is a little more stringent. You give your name to a person who has a huge book of computer printouts. Since I'm hyphenated, I have to explain to look in the book under the first half of the last name (that's how I am generally alphabetized) and sign. They have my signature from previous elections to compare to. If you are voting for the first time, you have to present picture id.

All I can say is there should be NO "Our System", the voting should be
the same countrwide, it is nuts that there are different systems in each
state. Having said that, the Electoral College makes a joke of democracy
in this country regardless.
:(
VERY disenchancted with the US voting system, whatever happened to "one
man, one vote" , makes me feel lucky to be Irish and to have been able
to vote via Proportional Representation, now that is REAL Democracy.
Here is California, 30 million people have a single vote for the man who
is gonna run the country ,, TOTALLY crazy

RANT OVER
Patrick

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inquisitive40
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sphyrapicus

11-02-2004, 08:32 AM

ian-mstm

11-02-2004, 08:46 AM

California has 55 electoral votes - not just one. But, I know what you mean. If 75% of California is Democratic, you'd like to see 25% of the electoral vote go to the Republicans.

The whole concept of the electoral college is generally confusing to
those of us who grew up with the parliamentary system of government.
Then I have to remember that Canada is a democracy and the US is a
republic. A subtle but important difference!

Ian

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inquisitive40

11-02-2004, 08:53 AM

The whole concept of the electoral college is generally confusing to those of us who grew up with the parliamentary system of government. Then I have to remember that Canada is a democracy and the US is a republic. A subtle but important difference! Ian

Ooopss,, wrong number on Electoral votes..
From what I have heard, the election will be pretty much won by the time
California starts to return their count, that seems REALLY out there
considering it is the largest state in the country, 35 million vs next
state which is Texas with 22 million and some of the "battle ground
states" , eg Utah with 2.3 million.

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inquisitive40
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Noorah101

11-02-2004, 08:53 AM

Congratulations Ian. I went with my wife this morning while she voted. I *could* have voted if I wanted to break the law. It was unbelievable. All that people had to do when they walked in was state their name so it could be crossed off a list. So, if you knew of someone who was registered to vote you could just say their name. Then, everyone goes to a table with two very nice women sitting there. They handed a ballot to everyone that just came from the area where you had your name crossed off the list. There was no verification that a given person just had their name crossed off. In fact, they started to hand me a ballot until I refused. What would be to stop me from coming in the door every hour and voting? Or using my neighbor's name? Talk about a potential for fraud. Sheesh. It's like someone said on NPR yesterday, you need more proof of id to write a check at the grocery store than you need to vote. Go figure. I hope other polling stations are more rigid in their requirements. So much for election reform... Sphy (waiting another 4 years until he can excercise his franchise) :(

Congratulations to all those who could vote for the first time ever!
Sphy, my area in Mesa, Arizona, was no better. I had my voter
registration card and picture ID all ready to show, and no one ever
asked for it, even though I have a very obviously foreign last name. It
was quick - no lines mid-morning.

On another note, it was interesting that a friend of mine was excited
for my husband, thinking how great it is that he came to America
during an election year so he could cast his vote. I had to explain
to her that he needs to be a citizen first, and all that entails.
***sigh*** :)

Rene

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Rete

11-02-2004, 08:55 AM

andrea874

11-02-2004, 08:56 AM

andrea874

11-02-2004, 08:57 AM

Congratulations Ian. I went with my wife this morning while she voted. I *could* have voted if I wanted to break the law. It was unbelievable. All that people had to do when they walked in was state their name so it could be crossed off a list. So, if you knew of someone who was registered to vote you could just say their name. Then, everyone goes to a table with two very nice women sitting there. They handed a ballot to everyone that just came from the area where you had your name crossed off the list. There was no verification that a given person just had their name crossed off. In fact, they started to hand me a ballot until I refused. What would be to stop me from coming in the door every hour and voting? Or using my neighbor's name? Talk about a potential for fraud. Sheesh. It's like someone said on NPR yesterday, you need more proof of id to write a check at the grocery store than you need to vote. Go figure. I hope other polling stations are more rigid in their requirements. So much for election reform... Sphy (waiting another 4 years until he can excercise his franchise) :(

What? Fraud in a US election? You must be KIDDING me. That could
NEVER happen.

/sarcasm

:)

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sphyrapicus

11-02-2004, 08:59 AM

Ooopss,, wrong number on Electoral votes.. From what I have heard, the election will be pretty much won by the time California starts to return their count, that seems REALLY out there considering it is the largest state in the country, 35 million vs next state which is Texas with 22 million and some of the "battle ground states" , eg Utah with 2.3 million.

I think it would be highly unlikely that Bush would have 270 electoral
votes before California starts returning its numbers.

In Canada, back in the day, by the time Ontario returned its numbers,
the election could be called.

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Folinskyinla

11-02-2004, 09:45 AM

At 6:50 this morning, prior to going to work, Sheila and I went to our local polling station and voted. Now I feel like an American! Vote well... vote often! Ian

Hi:

For years I joked that once I turned 21, the franchise would be extended
to 18 year olds. I was off by 2 weeks. I've been voting in every
election [including local school board, bond issues, etc] since 1971.

Today was the FIRST time in my life I had to wait in a long line. Over
50 people there in front of me.

--
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Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
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DCMark

11-02-2004, 09:49 AM

Hi: For years I joked that once I turned 21, the franchise would be extended to 18 year olds. I was off by 2 weeks. I've been voting in every election [including local school board, bond issues, etc] since 1971. Today was the FIRST time in my life I had to wait in a long line. Over 50 people there in front of me.

Rete, why is this on-topic for US Marriage Immigration but the
poll was not?

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Jenney & Mark

11-02-2004, 10:03 AM

Rete, why is this on-topic for US Marriage Immigration but the poll was not?

I was wondering that at first -- but then, for those who have obtained
US citizenship via marriage to a US citizen, I suppose it's more on-
topic than the poll. :)

~ Jenney

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Folinskyinla

11-02-2004, 10:18 AM

All I can say is there should be NO "Our System", the voting should be the same countrwide, it is nuts that there are different systems in each state. Having said that, the Electoral College makes a joke of democracy in this country regardless. :( VERY disenchancted with the US voting system, whatever happened to "one man, one vote" , makes me feel lucky to be Irish and to have been able to vote via Proportional Representation, now that is REAL Democracy. Here is California, 30 million people have a single vote for the man who is gonna run the country ,, TOTALLY crazy RANT OVER Patrick

Hi Patrick:

There have been some interesting disucssions of the electoral college.
It is an historical accident. One chief flaw in the original system
arose from the fact that is was assumed that there would be no political
parties [e.g. "factions" in Federalist Papers speak]. So the top two
vote getters became president and vice president respectively. This did
not work. In 1800 you had Vice President Thomas Jefferson running
against President John Adams. The system has been pretty much left
alone since.

The most interesting analysis I've seen is based initially on baseball.
What is the key to winning in baseball? Answer: scoring runs. The
term that scores the most runs wins. Simple right. But championships
are determined by the team who wins the most GAMES -- first over the
season [plus the "wild card" team] and then in a SERIES of games.

Lets say instead of a "vote" we talk about "runs." Instead of "states
or districts" we talk about "games." Take a look at the recent American
League Championship Series between the Yankees and the Red Sox.

The Yankees scored 45 runs in the series while the Sox scored only 41.
So, the Yankees got more "votes" than the Sox, but the Sox carried more
"states." Does this mean that the Yankees were better and had the
series "stolen" from them? Unless you are a Yankee fan, probably not.

For a further discussion, see
http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm

--
Certified Specialist
Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
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Rete

11-02-2004, 10:23 AM

Rete, why is this on-topic for US Marriage Immigration but the poll was not?

OT is fine; polls belong in the social groups and until recently were
disconnected in the usenet forums.

And if this thread had turned as nasty as the poll thread did, then it,
too, will be moved and/or closed and/or deleted, softly or permanently.

--
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DCMark

11-02-2004, 10:47 AM

OT is fine; polls belong in the social groups and until recently were disconnected in the usenet forums. And if this thread had turned as nasty as the poll thread did, then it, too, will be moved and/or closed and/or deleted, softly or permanently.

Where does it say polls are alright? From the Faq.

The poll was not nasty. It was also immigration related (as to the
opinions of those with foreign spouses).

This forum is for posting immigration topics.

Posts made in this forum are propogated to usenet and placed in the
public domain.

General topics on living in the US should be made in the Lifestyle &
Culture forum.
Posts that would be only of interest to britishexpats.com members should
also be made in one of the local forums.

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inquisitive40

11-02-2004, 11:17 AM

Hi Patrick: There have been some interesting disucssions of the electoral college. It is an historical accident. One chief flaw in the original system arose from the fact that is was assumed that there would be no political parties [e.g. "factions" in Federalist Papers speak]. So the top two vote getters became president and vice president respectively. This did not work. In 1800 you had Vice President Thomas Jefferson running against President John Adams. The system has been pretty much left alone since. The most interesting analysis I've seen is based initially on baseball. What is the key to winning in baseball? Answer: scoring runs. The term that scores the most runs wins. Simple right. But championships are determined by the team who wins the most GAMES -- first over the season [plus the "wild card" team] and then in a SERIES of games. Lets say instead of a "vote" we talk about "runs." Instead of "states or districts" we talk about "games." Take a look at the recent American League Championship Series between the Yankees and the Red Sox. The Yankees scored 45 runs in the series while the Sox scored only 41. So, the Yankees got more "votes" than the Sox, but the Sox carried more "states." Does this mean that the Yankees were better and had the series "stolen" from them? Unless you are a Yankee fan, probably not. For a further discussion, see http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm

LOL, kinda funny example considering I have no clue about US sports.
As I said "Proportional Representation" is the Irish voting system, much
more democratic, every voter gets multiple choices for their vote and so
if you utilize your votes properly, you at some point will vote for the
winner, i.e. each voter has vote 1, vote 2, vote 3 etc, and so if your
first choice is eliminated in the first count, the person you voted as
second choice gets your vote then and so on,, makes it hard to get a
large overall majority but is very fair voting system.
Patrick

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inquisitive40
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ian-mstm

11-02-2004, 11:59 AM

Rete, why is this on-topic for US Marriage Immigration but the poll was not?

Sorry... my fault. The thread should have been titled: "OT: Exercising
my Franchise". I was just so damn excited about voting after dealing
with immigration for 6.5 years, my fingers got the better of me.

Ian

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sphyrapicus

11-02-2004, 12:00 PM

Sorry... my fault. The thread should have been titled: "OT: Exercising my Franchise". I was just so damn excited about voting after dealing with immigration for 6.5 years, my fingers got the better of me. Ian

Damn toy dogs...

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USA & Pakistan

11-02-2004, 12:27 PM

Hi Patrick: There have been some interesting disucssions of the electoral college. It is an historical accident. One chief flaw in the original system arose from the fact that is was assumed that there would be no political parties [e.g. "factions" in Federalist Papers speak]. So the top two vote getters became president and vice president respectively. This did not work. In 1800 you had Vice President Thomas Jefferson running against President John Adams. The system has been pretty much left alone since. The most interesting analysis I've seen is based initially on baseball. What is the key to winning in baseball? Answer: scoring runs. The term that scores the most runs wins. Simple right. But championships are determined by the team who wins the most GAMES -- first over the season [plus the "wild card" team] and then in a SERIES of games. Lets say instead of a "vote" we talk about "runs." Instead of "states or districts" we talk about "games." Take a look at the recent American League Championship Series between the Yankees and the Red Sox. The Yankees scored 45 runs in the series while the Sox scored only 41. So, the Yankees got more "votes" than the Sox, but the Sox carried more "states." Does this mean that the Yankees were better and had the series "stolen" from them? Unless you are a Yankee fan, probably not. For a further discussion, see http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm

Ya, but the fate of the world was not dependent upon which team was
determined to be the winner.

:)Marnee

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Hypertweeky

11-02-2004, 12:30 PM

At 6:50 this morning, prior to going to work, Sheila and I went to our local polling station and voted. Now I feel like an American! Vote well... vote often! Ian

CONGRATULATIONS IAN!!:):), I envy you!

Were your hands shaky??:)

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Hypertweeky

11-02-2004, 12:31 PM

manc1976

11-02-2004, 12:35 PM

Hypertweeky

11-02-2004, 12:42 PM

Hitler was elected under proportional representation. With that system, the second best person is elected...........seems a crazy system to me.

It is not a crazy system is just different:)

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inquisitive40

11-02-2004, 01:07 PM

Hitler was elected under proportional representation. With that system, the second best person is elected...........seems a crazy system to me.

Nothing crazy about it, if you don't have a second preference then you
don't vote for one. As far as Hitler being voted in by that system, just
goes to show that the Germans got who they wanted :) , I have worked for
Germans and many older Germans privately still think Hitler was one of
their greatest leaders, genius and mad men are never far apart.

The only reason the UK does not have PR is because the government
knows they would always have a hung Parliament, UK also is a country
where 1/3rd gets their choice and the other 2/3rds have voted for the
other guy.

Not very fair in my observation.
Patrick

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inquisitive40
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Hypertweeky

11-02-2004, 01:22 PM

Folinskyinla

11-02-2004, 01:24 PM

Ya, but the fate of the world was not dependent upon which team was determined to be the winner. :)Marnee

Hi:

My elder daughter spent five years in Cambridge MA and she has observed
that to some people the Sox victory is much more important the fate of
the free world.

It always pays to remember that different people have different
points of view.

;)

--
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Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
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sunflwrgrl13

11-02-2004, 01:29 PM

Nothing crazy about it, if you don't have a second preference then you don't vote for one. As far as Hitler being voted in by that system, just goes to show that the Germans got who they wanted :) , I have worked for Germans and many older Germans privately still think Hitler was one of their greatest leaders, genius and mad men are never far apart. The only reason the UK does not have PR is because the government knows they would always have a hung Parliament, UK also is a country where 1/3rd gets their choice and the other 2/3rds have voted for the other guy. Not very fair in my observation. Patrick

Hmmm..I think I prefer my one vote - voting for 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice
seems very confusing. I don't see a problem with only 1/3rd getting
their choice - heck, it won't be 1/3 this year, it's going to be more
like 1/2 - this is definitely a country divided.

I enjoyed Mr. F's analogy of the electoral college, it helped me to
understand it a little better and I'm a native! :D That being said, I
truly hope that we eventually do away with the electoral college and go
with a straight popularity vote. I hate living in a state where I'm a
democrat, but the electoral votes always go Republican. So essentially
my vote doesn't matter squat. At least if it was a popularity vote every
vote really would count.

I agree that we need some tougher voter identification rules. My voter
registration card shows my maiden name, but my id shows my married
name - they weren't even interested in looking at my marriage cert as
proof of the name change, they just took me at my word. I could have
been anyone.

Happy voting everyone! May the right man win!

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Folinskyinla

11-02-2004, 01:32 PM

LOL, kinda funny example considering I have no clue about US sports. As I said "Proportional Representation" is the Irish voting system, much more democratic, every voter gets multiple choices for their vote and so if you utilize your votes properly, you at some point will vote for the winner, i.e. each voter has vote 1, vote 2, vote 3 etc, and so if your first choice is eliminated in the first count, the person you voted as second choice gets your vote then and so on,, makes it hard to get a large overall majority but is very fair voting system. Patrick

Hi:

Actually, the word for what you describe is not "proportional" but is
called "culmative" voting. Launi Granuier ran into trouble when
nominated by Clinton to a top assistant AG posistion because she
advocates.

I understand that Israel has a proportional system -- where each voter
casts a vote for which party they want. And each party has submitted a
list of candidates. The proportion of the vote the party gets
determines how many of the people on the list are elected.

Any time you introduce a district or borough system, the dynamics
change. There is a lot of debate about this in local electoral systems.
"At large" elections ["Select 5 from the following list"] are accused of
disnefranchising minority neighborhoods. [BTW, in various at large
elections, I tend to cast a "bullet" vote -- which increases its power.
Otherwise, your vote for your #5 person may be the vote margin of
victory of #5 over the person you consider #1].

All these issues are subject to discussion and all have advantages and
disadvantages.

--
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Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
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sphyrapicus

11-02-2004, 01:41 PM

inquisitive40

11-02-2004, 01:41 PM

Hmmm..I think I prefer my one vote - voting for 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice seems very confusing. Also, in recent history we haven't had more than 2 serious candidates so why even have that ability to vote 1st or 2nd? The guy with the most votes still wins. I don't see a problem with only 1/3rd getting their choice - heck, it won't be 1/3 this year, it's going to be more like 1/2 - this is definitely a country divided. I enjoyed Mr. F's analogy of the electoral college, it helped me to understand it a little better and I'm a native! :D That being said, I truly hope that we eventually do away with the electoral college and go with a straight popularity vote. I hate living in a state where I'm a democrat, but the electoral votes always go Republican. So essentially my vote doesn't matter squat. At least if it was a popularity vote every vote really would count. I agree that we need some tougher voter identification rules. My voter registration card shows my maiden name, but my id shows my married name - they weren't even interested in looking at my marriage cert as proof of the name change, they just took me at my word. I could have been anyone. Happy voting everyone! May the right man win!

Well the difference for me as a native born Irish person, the voting
system was taught in the schools at a very young age and so pretty much
everybody understands it, a lot of people only vote number one on their
ballot due to civil war divisions which still exist in Ireland BUT
Ireland is a VERY young Republic (as supposedly is America a republic)
and so the right to vote in Ireland actually is a new enough privilege
in relative terms to other countries.

As for the term "Proportional representation" , this is the term which
is used in Ireland and so that is why I use it, also the only ones that
I have ever heard knock this system are parties and groups which know
that they would not get their clear majorities to rule under that voting
system, overall I think it has been recognised as being the most
democratic voting system by non-partisan observors.

Patrick

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sunflwrgrl13

11-02-2004, 01:44 PM

I think you meant to say, "May the left man win!" ;) Sphy

Uh...May the correct man win! ;) Hmm..I can't wait for the day I can say
"May the best woman win!" :D We pride ourselves on being so equal so I
think it's about time we have a woman in there to clean up the mess the
men leave behind! (and I'm not trying to start trouble with that
comment...)

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SecretGarden

11-02-2004, 02:24 PM

Hmmm..I think I prefer my one vote - voting for 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice seems very confusing. Also, in recent history we haven't had more than 2 serious candidates so why even have that ability to vote 1st or 2nd? The guy with the most votes still wins. I don't see a problem with only 1/3rd getting their choice - heck, it won't be 1/3 this year, it's going to be more like 1/2 - this is definitely a country divided. I enjoyed Mr. F's analogy of the electoral college, it helped me to understand it a little better and I'm a native! :D That being said, I truly hope that we eventually do away with the electoral college and go with a straight popularity vote. I hate living in a state where I'm a democrat, but the electoral votes always go Republican. So essentially my vote doesn't matter squat. At least if it was a popularity vote every vote really would count. I agree that we need some tougher voter identification rules. My voter registration card shows my maiden name, but my id shows my married name - they weren't even interested in looking at my marriage cert as proof of the name change, they just took me at my word. I could have been anyone. Happy voting everyone! May the right man win!

Oh no..........*sinks to knees in horror*

Jamie, you mean they let you vote without having the registration card
in your corrected name?? That's the only reason I didn't go to the
polls today---I had neglected to change my voter registration card to
the new last name, and when I checked with the state of Illinois
website, it said the card had to be in the married name, and all changes
to registration were closed 28 days before the election, which was
October 5th.

Someone please tell me this is a state by state thing, because if I
didn't vote today and COULD have, I'm gonna be sick........:( I feel
like such an embarassment to the country and to my new husband for not
taking care of this sooner. Damn.

~SecretGarden

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ian-mstm

11-02-2004, 02:50 PM

CONGRATULATIONS IAN!!:):), I envy you! Were your hands shaky??:)

Thanks Tweeky! Fortunately, our district uses electronic (not touch
screen) machines so there were no holes to punch nor chads to
impregnate! :D

Ian

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Rete

11-02-2004, 03:18 PM

Oh no..........*sinks to knees in horror* Jamie, you mean they let you vote without having the registration card in your corrected name?? That's the only reason I didn't go to the polls today---I had neglected to change my voter registration card to the new last name, and when I checked with the state of Illinois website, it said the card had to be in the married name, and all changes to registration were closed 28 days before the election, which was October 5th. Someone please tell me this is a state by state thing, because if I didn't vote today and COULD have, I'm gonna be sick........:( I feel like such an embarassment to the country and to my new husband for not taking care of this sooner. Damn. ~SecretGarden

Well you still have time. The polls close at 9 p.m. it is only 7:20 on
the east coast.

Rete

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meauxna

11-02-2004, 04:05 PM

Thanks Tweeky! Fortunately, our district uses electronic (not touch screen) machines so there were no holes to punch nor chads to impregnate! :D Ian

Congrats on your first vote, Ian!

Go, Secret Garden, go!!
(run Forrest, run!)

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Andrew DeFaria

11-02-2004, 06:26 PM

inquisitive40 wrote:
All I can say is there should be NO "Our System", the voting should be the same countrwide, it is nuts that there are different systems in each state. Having said that, the Electoral College makes a joke of democracy in this country regardless.

That's because we're a representative republic not a democracy. A true
democracy is essentially "mob rules".
VERY disenchancted with the US voting system, whatever happened to "one man, one vote",

As far as I can see it's alive and well right here. What do you mean
actually? Doesn't each man (and woman) get one vote?

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Andrew DeFaria

11-02-2004, 06:32 PM

inquisitive40 wrote:
Hitler was elected under proportional representation. With that system, the second best person is elected...........seems a crazy system to me. Nothing crazy about it, if you don't have a second preference then you don't vote for one. As far as Hitler being voted in by that system, just goes to show that the Germans got who they wanted :) , I have worked for Germans and many older Germans privately still think Hitler was one of their greatest leaders, genius and mad men are never far apart. The only reason the UK does not have PR is because the government knows they would always have a hung Parliament, UK also is a country where 1/3rd gets their choice and the other 2/3rds have voted for the other guy.

That's all well and good except the truth is not democratic - neither
would the best guy therefore be democratic.
Not very fair in my observation.

Who ever said that life was supposed to be fair!

--
As I always say "I never repeat myself"