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View Full Version : N-400 - not arrested but USCIS thinks I was (traffic violation)


bulent
01-20-2004, 05:16 PM
Hi:

I am paying the price of being honest: I had a speeding ticket and
another minor moving violation, so I answered N400, question 16,

Have you EVER been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement
officer (including INS and militsary officers) for any reason?

YES (but underlined CITED and said "cited, see below")

and listed my moving violations. I was never arrested, just paid the
fine and took the defensive driving school for the first one and paid
the $75 fine for the second one.

Now I got a letter in the mail today saying "You indicated in your
application that you have been arrested. For these arrests and any
other incidents in which you may have been involved, bring originals
or CERTIFIED copies of all arrest records and court dispositions
showing how each incident was resolved. Failure to disclose any and
all arrests may result in the denial of your application."

Now I know why this happened. "Arrested, cited or detained" are all a
part of the same question, and I guess they assumed I was arrested for
checking "Yes". But that is not correct, and I would like to know
what kind of paperwork would I need for evidence. I already have a
driving record (which I included with my application) that is clean. I
have the defense driving school receipt. I have the copy of the
second ticket and the receipt that shows that I paid it. How do I
prove to these people that I was not arrested? Where can I get such a
document? Anybody had the same problem?

:(

Thanks

Rete
01-20-2004, 05:32 PM
Not a big problem. My husband who interviewed on 12/1/03 and was
sworn in on 12/12/03 had a speeding ticket as well and answered yes on
the N-400.



He obtained his driving record from the NYS DMV (you can do it online).
That was sufficient for the interview. It had to be signed off by the
supervisor. Once signed (we waited), he was issued an appointment
letter that very day for the swearing in ceremony on 12/12/03.



Rete





Originally posted by Bulent

Hi:

I am paying the price of being honest: I had a speeding ticket and
another minor moving violation, so I answered N400, question 16,

Have you EVER been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement
officer (including INS and militsary officers) for any reason?

YES (but underlined CITED and said "cited, see below")

and listed my moving violations. I was never arrested, just paid the
fine and took the defensive driving school for the first one and paid
the $75 fine for the second one.

Now I got a letter in the mail today saying "You indicated in your
application that you have been arrested. For these arrests and any
other incidents in which you may have been involved, bring originals
or CERTIFIED copies of all arrest records and court dispositions
showing how each incident was resolved. Failure to disclose any and
all arrests may result in the denial of your application."

Now I know why this happened. "Arrested, cited or detained" are all a
part of the same question, and I guess they assumed I was arrested for
checking "Yes". But that is not correct, and I would like to know
what kind of paperwork would I need for evidence. I already have a
driving record (which I included with my application) that is clean. I
have the defense driving school receipt. I have the copy of the
second ticket and the receipt that shows that I paid it. How do I
prove to these people that I was not arrested? Where can I get such a
document? Anybody had the same problem?

:(


Thanks


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Folinskyinla
01-20-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Bulent

Hi:

I am paying the price of being honest: I had a speeding ticket and
another minor moving violation, so I answered N400, question 16,

Have you EVER been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement
officer (including INS and militsary officers) for any reason?

YES (but underlined CITED and said "cited, see below")

and listed my moving violations. I was never arrested, just paid the
fine and took the defensive driving school for the first one and paid
the $75 fine for the second one.

Now I got a letter in the mail today saying "You indicated in your
application that you have been arrested. For these arrests and any
other incidents in which you may have been involved, bring originals
or CERTIFIED copies of all arrest records and court dispositions
showing how each incident was resolved. Failure to disclose any and
all arrests may result in the denial of your application."

Now I know why this happened. "Arrested, cited or detained" are all a
part of the same question, and I guess they assumed I was arrested for
checking "Yes". But that is not correct, and I would like to know
what kind of paperwork would I need for evidence. I already have a
driving record (which I included with my application) that is clean. I
have the defense driving school receipt. I have the copy of the
second ticket and the receipt that shows that I paid it. How do I
prove to these people that I was not arrested? Where can I get such a
document? Anybody had the same problem?

:(

Thanks





Hi:



I find it quite interesting that you got cited for speeding without
having been pulled over. Was it by one of those radar gun/camera
thingys? Just curious.



You got a boilerplate request. If you can get the court record, provide
it. If not, then give a declaration under penalty of perjury about what
happened and it was a traffic citation for speeding.



I am still chuckling at the idea of getting cited for speeding without
getting pulled over. Big Brother anyone?


--
Certified Specialist
Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete
01-20-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Rete

Not a big problem. My husband who interviewed on 12/1/03 and was sworn in on 12/12/03 had a speeding ticket as well and answered yes on the N-400.

He obtained his driving record from the NYS DMV (you can do it online). That was sufficient for the interview. It had to be signed off by the supervisor. Once signed (we waited), he was issued an appointment letter that very day for the swearing in ceremony on 12/12/03.

Rete





Also he took the original and a copy of the small record stub for the
license which was completed by the clerk after the court appearance
which listed the violation, speed and the fine levied.



Rete


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete
01-20-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Folinskyinla

Hi:

I find it quite interesting that you got cited for speeding without having been pulled over. Was it by one of those radar gun/camera thingys? Just curious.

You got a boilerplate request. If you can get the court record, provide it. If not, then give a declaration under penalty of perjury about what happened and it was a traffic citation for speeding.

I am still chuckling at the idea of getting cited for speeding without getting pulled over. Big Brother anyone?



They tickets for going through red lights without stopping you. You
receive the ticket in the mail with a copy of the photograph of your
car's rear end and license plate date and time stamped. They do this
for going through the e-z pass lanes without an e-z pass.



Rete


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

nash123
01-20-2004, 06:13 PM
Thank you Rete.



Well, I was actually pulled over. Should have mentioned that. But
still not arrested.



I got the driving record which says "court purposes" on top, and it is a
clear record, so I think that will be sufficient for the "Court Record".



The supervisor you refer to is the INS supervisor, is that right? Just
wanted to be clear.







Originally posted by sibsie

That's standard procedure in the UK. There are speed cameras everywhere
and you get a letter "booking you". There is though a major loophole
which I won't go into on here.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete
01-20-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by nash123

Thank you Rete.

Well, I was actually pulled over. Should have mentioned that. But still not arrested.

I got the driving record which says "court purposes" on top, and it is a clear record, so I think that will be sufficient for the "Court Record".

The supervisor you refer to is the INS supervisor, is that right? Just wanted to be clear.





To honest with you, I don't know if that is enough. The court
records should show what you received the violation for and the
pleading, the fine. I understand that you took the 8 hour DDC to
erase up to 5 pts from your license but the USCIS is interested in
why you got those points originally, what the court found you guilty
of and the penalty involved.



I'm not an authority and can only recount what happened with my husband
during his interivew. He was told that three traffic violations in a
limited time period is reason for denial of naturalization. It is
viewed as being irresponsible (not being of good moral character).



Rete


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

speedyvespa
01-20-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Folinskyinla

I am still chuckling at the idea of getting cited for speeding without getting pulled over. Big Brother anyone?



Ever been to the UK? There's enough Big Brother Gatso cameras to give
Orwell writer's cramp. They appear to be placed roughly every 50 yards
in high risk stretches of road, such as deserted dual carriageways with
crash barriers either side, remote country lanes, four-lane motorways
and twee villages with a population of about 3. Never outside a
hospital, school, pensioner's rest home etc etc...



And anyway, they're useful for testing your brakes on approach and then
acceleration afterwards. A friend told me.



- Mark


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Folinskyinla
01-20-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by speedyvespa

Ever been to the UK? There's enough Big Brother Gatso cameras to give Orwell writer's cramp. They appear to be placed roughly every 50 yards in high risk stretches of road, such as deserted dual carriageways with crash barriers either side, remote country lanes, four-lane motorways and twee villages with a population of about 3. Never outside a hospital, school, pensioner's rest home etc etc...

And anyway, they're useful for testing your brakes on approach and then acceleration afterwards. A friend told me.

- Mark



Hi:



Interesting. Here in California, even when they clock you by airplane,
the pilot reports it to a CHPie on the ground who pulls you over, issues
the citation, and makes you sign for it.



I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without
having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation.
How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?


--
Certified Specialist
Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete
01-20-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Folinskyinla

Hi:

Interesting. Here in California, even when they clock you by airplane, the pilot reports it to a CHPie on the ground who pulls you over, issues the citation, and makes you sign for it.

I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation. How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?





He said he was pulled over in a later post on the thread.



Rete


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Folinskyinla
01-20-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Rete

He said he was pulled over in a later post on the thread.

Rete



Hi:



Are "Bulent" and "Nash123" one and the same? Their posts are quite
inconsistent.



A cop pulls you over, writes the citation, and makes you sign for it --
you are not free to go until you sign. That is an "arrest" in every
sense of the word.


--
Certified Specialist
Immigration & Nat. Law
Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete
01-20-2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Folinskyinla

Hi:

Are "Bulent" and "Nash123" one and the same? Their posts are quite inconsistent.

A cop pulls you over, writes the citation, and makes you sign for it -- you are not free to go until you sign. That is an "arrest" in every sense of the word.





Believe they are. Same citations/violations. Posted on usenet as
Bulent and on BE as Nash



Rete


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

speedyvespa
01-20-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Folinskyinla

Hi:

Interesting. Here in California, even when they clock you by airplane, the pilot reports it to a CHPie on the ground who pulls you over, issues the citation, and makes you sign for it.

I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation. How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?



A moot point. A precedent has been set recently when a driver appealed
against a fine issued resulting from being snapped by a Gatso camera. He
citied article 6 from the European Court of Human Rights, which details
that a defendant has the right not to produce evidence which will
incriminate him or herself.



This has since been overruled on the grounds that public safety has
precedence over human rights - one only needs to look at the Prevention
of Terrorism Act and Criminal Justice Bill to realise that this is the
attitude of British law in general.



However, the argument is still ongoing. This could run and run... look
at



http://www.abd.org.uk/defence.htm



I'd be interested about what you think about this, Mr. Folinskyinla,
although that might be veering somewhat off-topic...



- Mark


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Grinch
01-20-2004, 08:55 PM
"Rete" <member167@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1186493.1074652295@britishexpats.com...

He was told that three traffic violations in a
limited time period is reason for denial of naturalization. It is viewed as being irresponsible (not being of good moral character).

Oh well I am fooked then.
3 speeding offenses....no citizenship for you
Deer murdering....That's fine...sign here please.

Grinch

sibsie
01-20-2004, 09:01 PM
Mark... that particular loophole was used a lot in Scotland. It can
still be used successfully to a degree.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Archmedes
01-20-2004, 10:43 PM
bulent wrote on 1/20/2004 16:16:
I am paying the price of being honest

This is just a form letter. Nothing to worry about.
Take copies of the tickets with you and you will be fine.

-Joe

Andy Platt
01-21-2004, 05:04 AM
"Folinskyinla" <member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:

I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation. How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?

AFAIK here in Virginia, if you get caught by a traffic light camera (I don't
know if we have speed cameras) you don't get any points on your license,
just a fine. So the issue of the driver isn't such an issue. Whoever the car
is registered to has to pay the fine and they have to get the money from the
driver if it isn't them.

I know that California has had a big debate about traffic light cameras with
a lot of people feeling they are an intrusion of privacy. I like the quote
from someone who said she was more worried about the instrusion of privacy
caused by a truck running a red light and crashing into her! ;)

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination

Andy Platt
01-21-2004, 05:05 AM
"Grinch" <hobgoblin@penn.com> wrote in message
news:LKmPb.17339$i4.1945@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
"Rete" <member167@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:1186493.1074652295@britishexpats.com... He was told that three traffic violations in a
limited time period is reason for denial of naturalization. It is viewed as being irresponsible (not being of good moral character). Oh well I am fooked then. 3 speeding offenses....no citizenship for you Deer murdering....That's fine...sign here please.

I think in PA you can trade deer kills for traffic violations. Make sure you
bring the carcuses to the interview. I'm not sure what the rate of exchange
is though.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination

nash123
01-21-2004, 06:17 AM
Yes bulent and nash123 are the same people, myself



I wanted to register for britishexpats, so I took a user name, but I
also post to alt.visa.us through groups.google.com, and my username
there is bulent. Sorry for the confusion.



So being pulled over is an arrest? I did not know that



Originally posted by Andy Platt

"Grinch" <hobgoblin@penn.com> wrote in message
news:LKmPb.17339$i4.1945@newsread1.news.atl.earthl ink.net"]news- :LKmPb.17339$i4.1945@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink. net[/url]...
"Rete" <member167@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1186493.1074652295@britishexpats.com"]news:1186493.1- 074652295@britishexpats.com[/url]...
He was told that three traffic violations in a
limited time period is reason for denial of naturalization. It is
viewed as being irresponsible (not being of good moral character).

Oh well I am fooked then.
3 speeding offenses....no citizenship for you
Deer murdering....That's fine...sign here please.

I think in PA you can trade deer kills for traffic violations. Make sure you
bring the carcuses to the interview. I'm not sure what the rate of exchange
is though.

Andy.

--

I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Roland Perry
01-21-2004, 06:42 AM
In message <1186526.1074653864@britishexpats.com>, Folinskyinla
<member4043@british_expats.com> writes
I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding withouthaving been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation.How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?

They send the ticket (and the licence points) to the car's registered
owner, and if someone else was driving the owner has to name them.
Failure to do so means the owner gets the fine (and points on their
licence).
--
Roland Perry

Rete
01-21-2004, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Andy Platt

"Grinch" <hobgoblin@penn.com> wrote in message
[I think in PA you can trade deer kills for traffic violations. Make sure you
bring the carcuses to the interview. I'm not sure what the rate of exchange
is though.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination



And if your sensibilities will not allow you to kill Bambi or his
parents, my suggestion is to visit your local butcher's shop and trade
your otto or owl for a few deer carcuses.



Rita


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Graefaxe
01-21-2004, 09:07 AM
"Folinskyinla" <member4043@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1186526.1074653864@britishexpats.com...
:
: Originally posted by speedyvespa
:
: > Ever been to the UK? There's enough Big Brother Gatso cameras to give
: > Orwell writer's cramp. They appear to be placed roughly every 50 yards
: > in high risk stretches of road, such as deserted dual carriageways
: > with crash barriers either side, remote country lanes, four-lane
: > motorways and twee villages with a population of about 3. Never
: > outside a hospital, school, pensioner's rest home etc etc...
:
: >
:
: > And anyway, they're useful for testing your brakes on approach and
: > then acceleration afterwards. A friend told me.
:
: >
:
: > - Mark
:
:
:
: Hi:
:
:
:
: Interesting. Here in California, even when they clock you by airplane,
: the pilot reports it to a CHPie on the ground who pulls you over, issues
: the citation, and makes you sign for it.
:
:
:
: I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without
: having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation.
: How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?
:

In Germany, the camera faces through the front windshield. There was a case
a few years back (late 80s) of a company car speeding on the autobahn where
the driver was wearing a pig mask. The company did not keep records of who
drove which car and when, they said (I don't believe any German company
would be that lax with records). German law required positive ID of the
driver, so no ticket was issued. It did make the Main Echo (newspaper in
Aschaffenburg) including the picture.

Personally, I would rather the police use cameras to ticket speeders (make
it a fine only unless unpaid/uncontested, then make it a crime like it is
now) and spend more time dealing with real issues such as violent crimes,
robberies, burglaries, drug distribution, and the like. Where did we ever
get the idea we had the right to speed until seen by the cops?

Ray Quayle
01-21-2004, 10:08 AM
Did ya hear the one about the guy caught by the speed camea and was sent a
fine along with the picture who in return sent a picture of a check made out
for the fine and received a picture back of handcuffs? What a story!

Ray Q
"Graefaxe" <Graefaxe@hotZZZmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1fc0681bb754c43d8d258452c3c0f24@news.teranew s.com...
"Folinskyinla" <member4043@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:1186526.1074653864@britishexpats.com... : : Originally posted by speedyvespa : : > Ever been to the UK? There's enough Big Brother Gatso cameras to give : > Orwell writer's cramp. They appear to be placed roughly every 50 yards : > in high risk stretches of road, such as deserted dual carriageways : > with crash barriers either side, remote country lanes, four-lane : > motorways and twee villages with a population of about 3. Never : > outside a hospital, school, pensioner's rest home etc etc... : : > : : > And anyway, they're useful for testing your brakes on approach and : > then acceleration afterwards. A friend told me. : : > : : > - Mark : : : : Hi: : : : : Interesting. Here in California, even when they clock you by airplane, : the pilot reports it to a CHPie on the ground who pulls you over, issues : the citation, and makes you sign for it. : : : : I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without : having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation. : How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK? : In Germany, the camera faces through the front windshield. There was a
case
a few years back (late 80s) of a company car speeding on the autobahn
where
the driver was wearing a pig mask. The company did not keep records of
who
drove which car and when, they said (I don't believe any German company would be that lax with records). German law required positive ID of the driver, so no ticket was issued. It did make the Main Echo (newspaper in Aschaffenburg) including the picture. Personally, I would rather the police use cameras to ticket speeders (make it a fine only unless unpaid/uncontested, then make it a crime like it is now) and spend more time dealing with real issues such as violent crimes, robberies, burglaries, drug distribution, and the like. Where did we ever get the idea we had the right to speed until seen by the cops?

majken
01-21-2004, 10:23 AM
There was one from the 90s, I think in Minnesota, where they sent a
picture of the front of the car showing the driver and passenger to the
car owner's house. His wife opened the envelope, and I guess that was
the end of his affair with another woman. That also ended the practice
in that area of sending a picture of the driver and passenger. They
just sent the pic with license plate from then on.



Originally posted by Graefaxe


In Germany, the camera faces through the front windshield. There was a case
a few years back (late 80s) of a company car speeding on the autobahn where
the driver was wearing a pig mask. The company did not keep records of who
drove which car and when, they said (I don't believe any German company
would be that lax with records). German law required positive ID of the
driver, so no ticket was issued. It did make the Main Echo (newspaper in
Aschaffenburg) including the picture.

Personally, I would rather the police use cameras to ticket speeders (make
it a fine only unless unpaid/uncontested, then make it a crime like it is
now) and spend more time dealing with real issues such as violent crimes,
robberies, burglaries, drug distribution, and the like. Where did we ever

get the idea we had the right to speed until seen by the cops?


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

speedyvespa
01-21-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Rete

And if your sensibilities will not allow you to kill Bambi or his parents, my suggestion is to visit your local butcher's shop and trade your otto or owl for a few deer carcuses.

Rita



Oh dear. I hope that Minnesota is more vegetarian friendly.



Perhaps in Wisconsin you can pay with cheese.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete
01-21-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by speedyvespa

Oh dear. I hope that Minnesota is more vegetarian friendly.

Perhaps in Wisconsin you can pay with cheese.





I actually like Vension. When prepared the correct way, in a wine
sauce, slow simmered, it is tasty and tender.



Rete



PS we can start the meal off with wine and cheese though


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Mattias Hembruch
01-21-2004, 11:42 AM
In article <c1fc0681bb754c43d8d258452c3c0f24@news.teranews.com>,
Graefaxe <Graefaxe@hotZZZmail.com> wrote:
"Folinskyinla" <member4043@british_expats.com> wrote in messagenews:1186526.1074653864@britishexpats.com.. .:: Originally posted by speedyvespa:: > Ever been to the UK? There's enough Big Brother Gatso cameras to give: > Orwell writer's cramp. They appear to be placed roughly every 50 yards: > in high risk stretches of road, such as deserted dual carriageways: > with crash barriers either side, remote country lanes, four-lane: > motorways and twee villages with a population of about 3. Never: > outside a hospital, school, pensioner's rest home etc etc...:: >:: > And anyway, they're useful for testing your brakes on approach and: > then acceleration afterwards. A friend told me.:
[cut]

:: Interesting. Here in California, even when they clock you by airplane,: the pilot reports it to a CHPie on the ground who pulls you over, issues: the citation, and makes you sign for it.:::: I just found it interesting that Bulent was cited for speeding without: having been pulled over to be issued and then sign for the citation.: How do they make sure of identity of the driver in the UK?:In Germany, the camera faces through the front windshield. There was a casea few years back (late 80s) of a company car speeding on the autobahn wherethe driver was wearing a pig mask. The company did not keep records of whodrove which car and when, they said (I don't believe any German companywould be that lax with records). German law required positive ID of thedriver, so no ticket was issued. It did make the Main Echo (newspaper inAschaffenburg) including the picture.



Apparently, they've also been sued for invasion of privacy when such a
front-facing picture included someone the driver was having an affair with
in the passenger seat :-)

Mattias

Complete Labor Law Poster for $24.95
from www.LaborLawCenter.com, includes
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