My husbands mother is an American citizen by birth - though after
marrying a Canadian she lived and has lived in Canada since - they
married at the age of 21 and lived in the states together for about 4
years before moving to Canada. My husbands father is a Canadian citizen
by birth. They were married in the US in 1971. My husband was born in
Canada and lived there for 19 years, before marrying me (American
citizen by birth) and applying for his green card in the US. Does he
have any claim to US citizenship or would he have - through his mother
being a citizen?


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Originally posted by ~Kamie~
My husbands mother is an American citizen by birth - though after marrying a Canadian she lived and has lived in Canada since - they married at the age of 21 and lived in the states together for about 4 years before moving to Canada. My husbands father is a Canadian citizen by birth. They were married in the US in 1971. My husband was born in Canada and lived there for 19 years, before marrying me (American citizen by birth) and applying for his green card in the US. Does he have any claim to US citizenship or would he have - through his mother being a citizen?



Your husband may already be a U.S. Citizen. It appears that he was born
between 1952 and 1986. If that is the case, the following statute seems
to apply to him:



4. December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986



If at the time of your birth both your parents were U.S. citizens and at
least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically
acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it.



If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that
parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at
least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no
conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one
U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside of
marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you
before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If
legitimization occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have
established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by
acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that
he would support you financially until your 18th birthday.



If the mother of your husband filed for a Consular Record of Birth (Form
FS-240), that is enough proof of U.S. Citizenship for your husband and
he can apply for a U.S. passport. Otherwise, your husband can submit
the following as proof of U.S. citizenship when applying for a U.S.
passport: his Canadian birth certificate, proof of citizenship of his
U.S. parent, and an affidavit of the U.S. citizen parent(s) showing all
periods and places of residence or physical presence in the United
States and abroad beforehis birth.



To apply for a U.S. passport, your husband would complete Form DS-011.
Please see the following link:
http://www.travel.state.gov/get_forms.html



Please note that I am not a lawyer and encourage you to confirm all
information enclosed within this reply.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Thank you. I read over the same thing you quoted in here, and I got the
same thing out of it. It just seems a little too easy to me, so I
thought I had to be misunderstanding.



Would it have any bearing - I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore -
I was just curious since I'd come across the page that said he should be
able to - ]http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/article.cfm/objectID/5365F1DF-
5EEB-4DC0-BD003808196CBB9E/catID/E597E251-BB1C-4AA4-
9D0AE7EC758B6391[/url] - but he has had his green card for 6 months
already - would not the INS have told him at our interview if he was
already able to - Hehe, no they wouldn't have I suppose.



Originally posted by jgbreton
Your husband may already be a U.S. Citizen. It appears that he was born between 1952 and 1986. If that is the case, the following statute seems to apply to him:

4. December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986

If at the time of your birth both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it.

If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside of marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If legitimization occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that he would support you financially until your 18th birthday.

If the mother of your husband filed for a Consular Record of Birth (Form FS-240), that is enough proof of U.S. Citizenship for your husband and he can apply for a U.S. passport. Otherwise, your husband can submit the following as proof of U.S. citizenship when applying for a U.S. passport: his Canadian birth certificate, proof of citizenship of his U.S. parent, and an affidavit of the U.S. citizen parent(s) showing all periods and places of residence or physical presence in the United States and abroad beforehis birth.

To apply for a U.S. passport, your husband would complete Form DS-011. Please see the following link: http://www.travel.state.gov/get_forms.html


Please note that I am not a lawyer and encourage you to confirm all
information enclosed within this reply.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

~Kamie~ wrote:
My husbands mother is an American citizen by birth - though after marrying a Canadian she lived and has lived in Canada since - they married at the age of 21 and lived in the states together for about 4 years before moving to Canada. My husbands father is a Canadian citizen by birth. They were married in the US in 1971. My husband was born in Canada and lived there for 19 years, before marrying me (American citizen by birth) and applying for his green card in the US. Does he have any claim to US citizenship or would he have - through his mother being a citizen?

It sounds like he is a US citizen.
I don't believe there is a residency requirement for the child if the
parent obtained citizenship based on their parent being a US citizen.
However, his children wouldn't be citizens based on his citizenship
since he hasn't lived in the US.

Originally posted by ~Kamie~
Thank you. I read over the same thing you quoted in here, and I got the same thing out of it. It just seems a little too easy to me, so I thought I had to be misunderstanding.

Would it have any bearing - I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore - I was just curious since I'd come across the page that said he should be able to -]http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/article.cfm/objectID/5365F1DF- 5EEB-4DC0-BD003808196CBB9E/catID/E597E251-BB1C-4AA4- 9D0AE7EC758B6391[/url] - but he has had his green card for 6 months already - would not the INS have told him at our interview if he was already able to - Hehe, no they wouldn't have I suppose.



INS/USCIS probably would not tell your husband all the details because
they would be making a decision on your petition, rather than
determining whether he is indeed a US Citizen already. It would take an
aware and knowledgeable adjudicator to have caught your husband's
potential for derivative citizenship. .. or maybe I am assuming that the
AO would not know all these details?



I hope that your husband is indeed a US citizen and that you don't have
to deal with USCIS any longer! :)


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Thanks - What if he has lived in the US though(for I our future
children - though I am assuming it would be the same as he had it since
there would be one American and one Canadian Parent, but I'm curious
since we've both (my husband and I) lived in the US since December of
1997 - 6 years.



It sounds like he is a US citizen.
I don't believe there is a residency requirement for the child if the
parent obtained citizenship based on their parent being a US citizen.
However, his children wouldn't be citizens based on his citizenship

since he hasn't lived in the US.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Thank you - that makes sense and as I was posting it I was laughing at
the thought simply because it wouldn't be what they were looking into. I
guess I thought there might be a chance since on his biographic
informaiton it shows his moms place of birth, ect.



I hope as well that our USCIS stuff is over - though my husband has a
10 year green card so we are over for a bit! :)



Originally posted by jgbreton
INS/USCIS probably would not tell your husband all the details because they would be making a decision on your petition, rather than determining whether he is indeed a US Citizen already. It would take an aware and knowledgeable adjudicator to have caught your husband's potential for derivative citizenship. .. or maybe I am assuming that the AO would not know all these details?


I hope that your husband is indeed a US citizen and that you don't have
to deal with USCIS any longer! :)


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Originally posted by ~Kamie~
Thanks - What if he has lived in the US though(for I our future children - though I am assuming it would be the same as he had it since there would be one American and one Canadian Parent, but I'm curious since we've both (my husband and I) lived in the US since December of 1997 - 6 years.



If your children are born in the US, they will be U.S. citizens (and
probably also Canadian citizens through your husband).



If your children are born abroad, it appears that they would be US
citizens through you. You would have to file a Consular Report of Birth
Abroad for them if this is the case or you could file for an N-600 for
them. Please see the link below, it has more details on who is and is
not a US Citizen:



http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/N-600.pdf


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

"~Kamie~" wrote:
My husband's mother is an American citizen by birth - though after marrying a Canadian she lived and has lived in Canada since - they married at the age of 21 and lived in the States together for about 4 years before moving to Canada. My hus- band's father is a Canadian citizen by birth. They were married in the US in 1971. My husband was born in Canada and lived there for 19 years, before marrying me (American citizen by birth) and applying for his green card in the US. Does he have any claim to US citizenship or would he have - through his mother being a citizen?

It definitely sounds to me like your husband is automatically a US
citizen by birth, through his mother. This would be the case even
if your mother-in-law had not realized he had US citizenship and
had never registered his birth with US consular officials in Canada.

Note that your husband's US citizenship (assuming he does in fact
have it) would not conflict in any way with his also having Canadian
citizenship. He would have acquired both citizenships at birth, and
contrary to widely held misconceptions, he would never have had any
obligation to pick one citizenship and give up the other -- he can
keep both citizenships for life.

The only event I can think of which might prevent your husband from
having US citizenship would be if his mother became a Canadian citizen
before he was born. Until well into the 1980's, the acquisition of
non-US citizenship as an adult typically led to loss of one's US
citizenship if US officials found out about it -- and if your mother-
in-law lost her US citizenship before your husband was born, he would
not have had any claim to US citizenship through her. (Please note
that foreign naturalization doesn't cause loss of US citizenship any
longer -- but it used to.) Note that merely marrying a Canadian
would =not= have been enough to give your mother-in-law Canadian
citizenship or cause her to lose US citizenship -- she would have
had to file a specific application for Canadian naturalization.)

"jgbreton" wrote:
December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986 . . . . If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.

Not quite. That was the rule prior to 24 Dec. 1952.

Between 1952 and 1986, the requirement (for a child born abroad to
one American parent to have US citizenship at birth) was that the
American parent must have been LITERALLY, PHYSICALLY PRESENT in
the US (or US territories or possessions) for at least ten years.
Physical presence is not necessarily the same as "residence"; time
spent travelling abroad while one's home was in the US, for instance,
did NOT qualify toward the required ten years of physical presence.
Also, at least five years of physical presence in the US had to have
occurred after the American parent's 14th (not 16th) birthday.

On 14 Nov. 1986, Congress changed the law to say that a child born
outside the US to one American parent would acquire US citizenship
at birth if the American parent had spent at least five (not ten)
years of physical presence in the US -- including at least two (not
five) years after the parent's 14th birthday. But note that this
new version of the law does NOT apply retroactively to people born
prior to 14 Nov. 1986. What this means is that a person's exact
birthdate can be crucial in determining which set of rules control
his/her entitlement to US citizenship at birth.

Rich Wales richw@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

"~Kamie~" wrote:
Thanks - What if he has lived in the US though (for our future children . . . .)

If =both= parents of a non-US-born child are US citizens, the rules
determining whether the child automatically gets US citizenship at
birth are much more permissive than if only one parent is American.

In this case, all that is necessary is for =one= of the parents to
have =ever= resided in the US prior to the child's birth, at any
time in the parent's life (even when the parent was a baby).

It seems clear that you've already more than met this requirement.

Of course, if you have a child in the US, he/she will automatically
have US citizenship at birth anyway, because all US-born children
(except children of foreign diplomats) are always automatically US
citizens regardless of the status of their parents.

It would be worth noting, BTW, that any children you and your husband
have will also automatically be Canadian citizens by birth. Under
Canada's current Citizenship Act (in force since early 1977), any
child born anywhere in the world to a Canadian parent automatically
has Canadian citizenship by birth. (Additionally, any child born
in Canada -- except for a child of foreign diplomats and such -- is
automatically a Canadian citizen; Canada has basically the same rule
in this regard as the US.)

Rich Wales richw@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

> I hate "hijacking" postings but I was hoping that if I state our situation someone could help me.

My husband (USC from birth) moved to Canada when he was 6 and remained
in Canada until Sept/02. He moved back to US in Sept/02 and we are
now in process of applying for K3/K4 visas. This is the
question.....I am a Canadian citizen by birth and we have 2 children
(8 and 5) both born in wedlock. My husbands parents are both USC by
birth and currently live in US and also meet requirements for passing
citizenship through to our children for residency requirement (5 years
2 of which are past the age of 14 and prior to our children's birth).
The problem I am having for our children is more a question of timing
and if I doing the right thing. We are very close to NOA 2 for K3/K4
visa and I thought that I could acquire K3 for me K4 for the children.
Once we are in the US, that I would use N-600 and grandparents
residency to acquire citizenship for my children. (without doing AOS
and filing I-130 since the children are lawfully present on K4 visa)
Is this a correct assumption or do I have to do AOS and file I-130?
As you can tell I am trying to save money. The timing will be off if
I file N-600 while we are still residents of Canada (and my husband is
already resident in US which will create a problem).

Is there any way of just applying for US passports for my children at
consulate in Canada without filing N-600? ie: proving grandparent's
can pass citizenship through? I have a feeling this is really wishful
thinking!!!

Have I totally confused everyone because I certainly have confused
myself.....

Bernice

"Bernice" wrote:
My husband (USC from birth) moved to Canada when he was 6 and remained in Canada until Sept/02. He moved back to US in Sept/02 . . . . I am a Canadian citizen by birth and we have 2 children (8 and 5) both born in wedlock. My husband's parents are both USC by birth . . . . Is there any way of just applying for US passports for my children at a consulate in Canada without filing N-600? ie: proving grandparent's can pass citizenship through?

I don't believe so.

In order for your children to have automatic US citizenship at birth,
an American PARENT must have spent the required minimum amount of
time in the US prior to the child's birth. For purposes of this
particular provision of US law, US presence by a grandparent does
not mean a thing -- it absolutely has to be one of the parents.

You're correct in noting that the time your husband's parents have
spent in the US may help your children get US citizenship (via the
Child Citizenship Act of 2000). There are two ways this law could
work to your children's benefit:

(1) If you all move to the US, and your children eventually get
permanent residency ("green cards"), they will then become US
citizens IMMEDIATELY and AUTOMATICALLY by virtue of having
a US citizen parent. In this case, my understanding is that
no extra application for citizenship is required -- though
once they are US citizens, you should of course apply for
documentation certifying their new status.

(2) If you're still living in Canada, your husband (since he's
the one who is a US citizen) can apply for the children to
become US citizens. In this case, the time spent in the US
by either of his parents can be used to qualify the children
for US citizenship. He would then have to take the kids to
the US (on a short, temporary basis) in order to finalize
their acquisition of US citizenship.

I'm actually not sure if option #2 would work in your case, because
it sounds like your husband is now living in the US, whereas you
and the kids are still in Canada. In any case, it would seem to
me (and please note here that I'm not a lawyer) that if you're
already applying for visas for you and the children to come to the
US as lawful permanent residents, you would probably be best off
just completing that procedure -- because as soon as the kids have
permanent resident status in the US, they'll instantly become US
citizens anyway, per option #1 above.

One other thing might possibly be worth mentioning here. If you
(Bernice) happen to have US citizenship yourself (which could be
the case either if you were born in the US -- unlikely, to be
sure, since some INS/USCIS official would probably have noticed
such an obvious point while you were applying for your visas --
or if one or both of your parents is American), then a different,
more permissive part of the US law on citizenship at birth would
come into play. If a child is born outside the US to TWO American
parents (as opposed to just one), then the child is automatically
a US citizen at birth, as long as EITHER parent had EVER lived in
the US, for ANY amount of time, and at ANY time in his/her life
(even as a child). In this case, the time your husband lived in
the US until he was six years old would meet this requirement.
Again, though, this possibility would exist ONLY if you are also
a US citizen (and it does happen that a fair number of Canadians
do in fact have US citizenship without realizing it).

Rich Wales richw@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

richw@richw.org (Rich Wales) wrote in message news:<20040121215629.M51847.richw@whodunit.richw.org>... "Bernice" wrote: My husband (USC from birth) moved to Canada when he was 6 and remained in Canada until Sept/02. He moved back to US in Sept/02 . . . . I am a Canadian citizen by birth and we have 2 children (8 and 5) both born in wedlock. My husband's parents are both USC by birth . . . . Is there any way of just applying for US passports for my children at a consulate in Canada without filing N-600? ie: proving grandparent's can pass citizenship through? I don't believe so. In order for your children to have automatic US citizenship at birth, an American PARENT must have spent the required minimum amount of time in the US prior to the child's birth. For purposes of this particular provision of US law, US presence by a grandparent does not mean a thing -- it absolutely has to be one of the parents. You're correct in noting that the time your husband's parents have spent in the US may help your children get US citizenship (via the Child Citizenship Act of 2000). There are two ways this law could work to your children's benefit: (1) If you all move to the US, and your children eventually get permanent residency ("green cards"), they will then become US citizens IMMEDIATELY and AUTOMATICALLY by virtue of having a US citizen parent. In this case, my understanding is that no extra application for citizenship is required -- though once they are US citizens, you should of course apply for documentation certifying their new status. (2) If you're still living in Canada, your husband (since he's the one who is a US citizen) can apply for the children to become US citizens. In this case, the time spent in the US by either of his parents can be used to qualify the children for US citizenship. He would then have to take the kids to the US (on a short, temporary basis) in order to finalize their acquisition of US citizenship. I'm actually not sure if option #2 would work in your case, because it sounds like your husband is now living in the US, whereas you and the kids are still in Canada. In any case, it would seem to me (and please note here that I'm not a lawyer) that if you're already applying for visas for you and the children to come to the US as lawful permanent residents, you would probably be best off just completing that procedure -- because as soon as the kids have permanent resident status in the US, they'll instantly become US citizens anyway, per option #1 above.

Yes correct.............he has already moved for work purposes and
commutes back to Canada to visit us until K3 visa is finished and we
will move to US. One other thing might possibly be worth mentioning here. If you (Bernice) happen to have US citizenship yourself (which could be the case either if you were born in the US -- unlikely, to be sure, since some INS/USCIS official would probably have noticed such an obvious point while you were applying for your visas -- or if one or both of your parents is American), then a different, more permissive part of the US law on citizenship at birth would come into play. If a child is born outside the US to TWO American parents (as opposed to just one), then the child is automatically a US citizen at birth, as long as EITHER parent had EVER lived in the US, for ANY amount of time, and at ANY time in his/her life (even as a child). In this case, the time your husband lived in the US until he was six years old would meet this requirement. Again, though, this possibility would exist ONLY if you are also a US citizen (and it does happen that a fair number of Canadians do in fact have US citizenship without realizing it).

Wish this were true but both my parents are from London, England as
well as my grandparents...........hey there's a thought...........we
could then do the immigration thing to UK (kidding)

Just one more question:

Am I able to apply using N-600 for my kids once we enter US on K3/K4
visas using my husband's parents for residency. This way we wouldn't
have to file AOS and I-130's for them? Or do the kids have to have
greencards first? I read someone as long as they were lawfully
admitted (which I take to be admitted on a visa) then we can apply for
citizenship using N-600? Thought this way might be quicker and
cheaper.

By the way...........you have a great website. Very informative. I
also found out quite abit from the ACA site. Thanks again for your
answers!

Bernice Rich Wales richw@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ *DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

From what you have said you will automatically be a British Citizen by
descent, you cannot pass this on to your children but it is relatively
easy to get spouses. defacto partners of more than 2 years and children
visas to live in the UK I think the visa can be processed at a High
COmmission or Embassy the same day, unlike the lengthy process to obtain
a US visa, and I think the residency requirement is 3 years and after
that they can apply for citizenship which would be British Citizen other
than by descent and this doesnt affect their Canadian or US Citizenships
and means that they can in turn pass this citizenship on to their
children, as far as US Citizenship goes for your children, we are in a
similar situation to you.

I am British and my husband is American born but raised in the UK so he
is a Dual Citizen, he has spent a total of 6 years 8 months in the
States, about 25 months after he was 14, which should have allowed him
to pass US citizenship on to our daughter, but because he doesn't have
proof of his stays, immigration have only stamped his passport once or
twice we cannot apply directly for citizenship and must go the
grandparent route, which we are in the process of doing now, as his
natural father (my daugther's grandfather) lives in the US and obviously
meets the 5 year residency requirements.

The only real difference between them is that my daughter will not be a
Natural Born US Citizen but a Naturalized Citizen and therefore cannot
run for presidency!!!

We still havent heard back from the Service Center hopefully it
shouldn't be too long as we were planning to go to the States last
September, but that got postponed and are now hoping to travel stateside
in the summer, hopefully we will have heard about the date that my
husband has to take my daughter for the interview to obtain her
certificate of citizenship by then.



Fingers crossed.



Allison


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

"Bernice" wrote:
Wish this were true but both my parents are from London, England as well as my grandparents....

OK, fine. I just thought I should mention the issue for the sake
of completeness.

I'm not sure, BTW, if it was necessary for me to mention that when
your children do get US citizenship, they will still be Canadian
citizens too (and they can keep both citizenships for life -- anyone
who tries to tell you that either the US or Canada requires children
with dual citizenship to choose a single citizenship when they grow
up is misinformed).

Also, did your husband ever become a Canadian citizen? If not, he
might want to consider applying for Canadian citizenship now, before
he's been outside Canada for long enough to lose his status as a
permanent resident ("landed immigrant"). This would have no impact
at all on his US citizenship; he can have and keep both.
hey there's a thought...........we could then do the immigration thing to UK (kidding)

Seriously, I imagine you probably could do this if you ever really
wanted to, because since your parents were born in the UK, I believe
this means you are either already a citizen of the UK or can easily
be registered as one. You could then, I assume, sponsor your family
for immigration to the UK -- again, if you ever wanted to, which I
understand is not in your plans right now, but . . . .

BTW, if you are in fact a British citizen (or entitled to claim
British citizenship), this wouldn't have any negative impact on
your Canadian citizenship or the process of immigrating to the US.

Also note that, since you yourself weren't born in the UK, I don't
believe your children have any claim to British citizenship through
you. You might want to confirm this with an expert in British
citizenship law, though, just to be 100% sure.
Just one more question: Am I able to apply using N-600 for my kids once we enter US on K3/K4 visas using my husband's parents for residency? This way we wouldn't have to file AOS and I-130's for them?

I honestly don't know which of these two routes for getting your
children US citizenship would be faster and/or less expensive.

For that matter, since you're in the process of moving to the US
as permanent residents, I'm not even sure if the other approach
(which is specifically intended for Americans with foreign-born
children who are =not= living in the US) is even available to you.

If you simply must know which paperwork route is best (or which
routes are possible), my only suggestion would be to discuss the
matter with a competent immigration lawyer in the US.

Rich Wales richw@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.