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daveraj
07-15-2012, 06:25 AM
I was selected for the job and the probation was for 1 year. Then permanent employee. I was given an written reprimand for violating policy. I replied to the reprimand stating that the allegations are inaccurate. After 3 weeks, I was terminated for failing probation. I applied for unemployment and put in my side of the story very mildly and omitted some major issues. I received the wage transcript. I was told that my claim would have been sent to my former employer and that they are to respond. Will I get a copy of my former employer's response. I would like to know why I failed my probation.

cbg
07-15-2012, 06:44 AM
No, you will not get a copy of the employer's response. You will be told in general terms what the response was.

chyvan
07-15-2012, 12:09 PM
The one exception would be if an appeal is filed: either by you because you are denied, or the employer because you weren't denied.

If it's via a telephone hearing, you'll be mailed a packet with the deputy's comments and the form submitted by the employer and any attachments.

If it's in person, you'll have access to the information prior to the start of the hearing.

ElleMD
07-15-2012, 08:29 PM
The reason your employer will (likely) give is that you failed probation. You are not legally entitled to the details about why they consider you to have failed or any investigation they may have done.

Beth3
07-16-2012, 09:07 AM
I applied for unemployment and put in my side of the story very mildly and omitted some major issues. Which you can anticipate your employer will inform the UC Division about.

daveraj
07-17-2012, 01:07 AM
I was told by a work source employee that I will be contacted by the adjudicator for my side of the story. I do not know if it will be by telephone, e-mail or mail. I was told that I can tell all to the arbitrator including hostile work place, retaliation for complaints, failed probation is a pretext to terminate my employment, etc. Why does my former employer even contest unemployment benefits? Knowing fully well that my work was very good at every level and that my conduct is as good or better than other employees? How will they prevail at determination that I failed probation if they do not give any reason for such?

HRinMA
07-17-2012, 04:40 AM
Just because you think you did a great job doesn't mean the company thinks you did. It is also possible the company has documentation of something you did that will support the termination.

You might want to think about what you are alleging before responding to unemployment. I have responded to many claims and in 7 states; claims that are clean and streamlined are easier to win. So if you allege hostile work environment (which is not what most people think) retaliation for complaints, etc you may inadvertently help the employer's case. Keeping it simple is usually the best.

cbg
07-17-2012, 06:00 AM
The term, hostile work environment, has a very specific meaning in employment law, and it is not what most people think it is. Also, not all or even most "retaliation" for complaints is illegal.

You don't have to; it's entirely up to you. But if you want to share a little bit more about what you see as an HWE or retaliation, we can give you a better idea how, if at all, they will play into your UI claim.

ElleMD
07-17-2012, 07:43 AM
If you have a hearing the ajudicator will ask for your side of the story as far as the termination is concerned. They do not want nor will they listen to, a laundry list of complaints about the employer. They do not care if you worked for Pollyanna or Attila the Hun. They only care about the reason you were terminated and whether or not if was a reason which either qualifies for UI or disqualifies you. That is it.

This assumes you even get to the hearing phase. Most claims never do.

daveraj
07-18-2012, 01:24 AM
1) Around January this year I brought to co-worker's attention that I was being excluded and that exclusion is a form of discrimination. Immediately she accused me of condescending behavior because of her gender. Then she told me that I should not be working there and asked me to leave. I did not do so and she walked off her workstation. I then sent an e-mail to the Administrator X and Supervisor. Supervisor replied that I do not have to leave and to continue working.
2) The next day I sent an e-mail to X that co-worker allegation are not accurate and to bring to my attention any such complaints.
3)X met with me soon after in his office. During the conversation, I mentioned that it is hostile work place for me. He then intimidated me saying that I am still a probationary employee, have no rights and could be dismissed at-will.
4) Some days later I brought to X that I was not recognized on a document that Y circulated. X e-mailed this concern to Y and she responded accepting responsibility to the oversight and additionally made me a member of Habitat Mapping & Change Technical Committee for the ABC system. We had a mutually beneficial professional working interaction till my termination.
5) However no such action was taken about the concern I brought to X about co-worker's hostile actions to wards me. She was and is still on probationary period till my termination.
6) Few months later: I complained to X and my Supervisor (via e-mail) about another employee Z use of profanity towards me, his inaccurate accusations that I was not doing my job and not cooperative regards to my quality of work. I once again re-iterated that it is not in my character to be untruthful, unprofessional, and requested that any allegation by any one be brought to my notice. Supervisor responded to the e-mail that he would talk to Z. After that Z never repeated such behavior towards me and we were mutually courteous.
7) No allegations of any nature were brought to my notice till June by either the Administrator (X) or Supervisor.
8) During my time I noticed many errors, negligence, inefficiencies etc., and communicated the same to X, Supervisor,plus some to K (Asst. manager), M (GIS Coordinator/ Database Administrator)via e-mail such as data on a portable hard drive lying on the floor in corridor, GIS data not really being backed-up and K's knowledge of the same and inaction, metadata errors such as SoSO's landcover/landuse served on the data miner: SOSO for one year and NRCS soil data for another, many viable end-products not generated previously, inadequate methods previously employed that resulted in nonviable products,need to redo, etc.
9) Around early June I was given the official oral reprimand by X. The same was neither truthful nor accurate. Supervisor mentioned that I rebut the same and so I provided to him my response in writing along with my signed oral reprimand. I attended EAP sessions as recommended in the oral reprimand and mentioned that it was discrimination to the EAP counselor.
10) By end of June I received my termination letter.
11) I have submitted my monthly progress reports to Supervisor as required and documented my progress of my performance in various other e-mails. I also proactively talked with Supervisor if there was any implied offense in any of my communications. He affirmed that I was OK.

HRinMA
07-18-2012, 05:58 AM
Exclusion as a form of discrimination? It depends on why you were excluded.

It sounds like the company got tired of you throwing around the discrimination/hostile work environment accusations and decided to term you. If you were still on probation in June then when the problems first started in January you were only a few months along in your employment. If I had an employee that continually complained about discrimination or harassment and did not take my oral warning seriously, then I would recommend firing.

Being a probationary employee really doesn't matter to your term. You could have been a long time employee and been termed just as easily (assuming there is no union contract).

ElleMD
07-18-2012, 10:25 AM
You still haven't shared any basis for the discrimination. Excluding you is not illegal. Nor are using profanity, leaving you off a document, complaints from others that you are not performing your job to their satisfaction, or reminding you that you are still on probation and can be terminated at will.

In just a few short months you managed to be written up, had a coworker claim you were condescending toward her because of her gender (which IS illegal), complained numerous times about the way things were done, had to attend EAP sessions because of your behavior and throw around allegation that you were being discriminated against when there is no evidence of such. That is not the way to ensure a long tenure with any employer. Frankly, what comes across loud and clear is that you are difficult to work with and not willing to rake responsibility for your own actions. Everything is someone else's fault or they are wrong. No employer is going to want to deal with that long term. I'd strongly suggest rethinking how you approach people and how you come across or this pattern is liable to be repeated in the future. You can't control what others do but how you respond to their actions is key and that you have total control over.

daveraj
07-18-2012, 11:07 AM
You both are right. Discrimination still exists. One has only to read or watch news and almost no day passes without a major act of rabid racism. I totally agree with you two that the employer got tired of my complaints and canned me. If the employer had any shame, he would have addressed the complaints or denied my complaints after finding out the truth through the process of investigation. Instead the higher ups just sat on it waiting for me to break or go away.

Ofcourse I was written-up, with malice (Point 9. niether truthful or accurate). Yes, some of the co-workers are very ineffcinet in their work. Who cares any way? It is after all the taxpayer's money. So the HR wanting some work in their hands (job-security) fired me, again who cares if the outcomes are useless, as long as the taxpayer is willing to foot the bill. The EAP counsellor fully agrees that it is blatant discrimination and will testify so.

I sent the above 11 points so that some one with knowledge can provide useful information as the adjudicator is going to issue an findings of facts after investigation. I came across a Florida law that states if failing probation is the reason for termination, the burden of proof is on the employer. I do not beleive that they got tired of my complaints and fired me will be any more legally valid than stating they do not like my skin color and fired me. Of course they can mention that my numerous complaints were untruthful. They can coach all the staff too to lie.

On the positive note, going forward any one has suggestions that would help in communicating these points to the UC arbitrator so that he would see the light through the darkness of my former employer's deeds and issue the finding of facts. Ofcourse they all publicly proclaimed their christian faith. I am not deceived and I beleive many obtain the gift of self deception.

cbg
07-18-2012, 11:15 AM
What form of ILLEGAL discrimination are you claiming it was? Race, religion, national origin, gender, age, genetic info, disabilty or pregnancy?

daveraj
07-18-2012, 12:38 PM
I was asked to leave because I, unlike the rest of the staff (20) am the only minority (National Origin) in that work location. There were no blacks, hispanics, asians, native americans, etc at the location. Only white males & females. There was one hispanic lady, but not at the location and half employed by another agency (some sort of work sharing).

Of course I was constanly treated differently such as issuing a reprimand for a minor reckless slight of talk while others engaged in far worse behavior were given a talk at most. The reprimand was spiced with blatant lies and inaccuracies. No reason was given for failing my probation. My work was as good or better than others, my conduct was as good or better than others, I was honest, admired for being a gentleman. My work was appreciated by all especially other agencies and they repeatedly requested my assistance and even placed me on a nation-wide committee. I excelled in many of the projects in my workplan, completed them in time.

Yes, I complained many times. All my complaints were true and proffessional. I fully agree that they got fed up of my complaints and canned me. What should I do? Simply remain silent while all this is going-on? I was always proactive: asking my supervisor if I offended any one in any way.

Absent any explanation/s why I failed my probation, I see nothing but retaliation. yes, too many complaints - better to get rid of him while he is still in probation. I know they are jumping with joy. I for some reason did not expect the higher-ups (self proclaimed christians) to follow through in this deception. Should have known better.

Any ideas with the upcoming UC arbitration? Retalition: complaint of one mild act of discrimination or pointing out some incidents of inefficient/negligent work?

Morgana
07-18-2012, 02:00 PM
UI is not going to care if the company is inefficient, or negligent. All they are looking at is why you were terminated and are you eligible for UI based on that. Period.
You will find that they will not listen to anything not related to the immediate matter at hand and will not take kindly to you bringing up a laundry list of perceived slights (legitimate or not).

Honestly, I think you need to take a logn look at yourself. Based on your posts, you seem to be an employee with multiple issues which is not great for success in the workplace.

Please, dont get mad at us. We are trying to help you and we are offering suggestions to help.

ElleMD
07-18-2012, 02:16 PM
You completely misuderstand UC and what getting it means. The hearing will not look at the legality of your termination. The vast majority of those getting UC were terminated legally. The hearing just looks at whether or not you were terminated for a reason which either qualifies or disqualifies you for benefits. That is it. "Discrimination" means zip as far as UC.

Right now you are puttin the cart before the horse. Your employer hasn't even responded yet nor have you been denied benefits. As such there is no hearing nor anything to appeal.

Whether you have a claim based on National Origin discrimination is another matter entirely. UC has no bearing on that at all. It takes MUCH more than showing you were the only one of your background at the employer to prove that the reason you were terminated was because of your NO. Frankly, given all your other issues there you were not working up to par and beloved by all. All of those things are going to work very much against you. It is totally legal to fire you for just not getting along with others and constantly complaining. You even admit this is the reason.

It sounds like you were public sector in which case you will need to look to any municipal regulations to see if those were followed but 9 times in 10, while in probation, all bets are off and you can be fired at any time for any reason. Being on probation is also a legal reason to treat you differently than someone who is not. Not to mention you didn't just have one issue while employed, you had several. Unless other probabtionary employees of a different race and all the issues you had were treated better by the same supervisors, you don't have a legal case.

cbg
07-18-2012, 05:03 PM
Presumably, you were of the same national origin at the time you were hired. If they were planning to discriminate against you on the basis of your national origin so soon after hire, why did they hire you in the first place? It would have been easier and cheaper not to hire you at all.

daveraj
07-19-2012, 02:18 AM
OK, I got it.

UI arbitrator is not going to listen to my side of the story that I was terminated for retaliation due to my legitimate and rightful complaints of inappropriate behavior and shoddy work by others.

Of course former employer will insist that I did not get along with others. So the UI arbitrator will agree to that and deny my UI in the Finding of Facts. He will also not listen to my claim of retaliation, get upset if I mention the laundry list of legitimate complaints I made to my former employer and find me at fault in his/her determination.

I fully get the point that it is better for employers not to hire some one of different NO. Obviously as I was told that I was hired because I was the best qualified of all. Now that they got rid of me, they are going to replace/d with a white person so that they can have harmony & fellowship (let us say freely using profanity again). I do not know if the major private sector companies terminate their minority employees and face this at UI claims. There is nothing I can do if some employers have no shame, especially the kind that bosses publicly proclaim their so called christian faith.


NO is the number 1 in EEOC complaints. Now I understand the reason why I get so many interviews and not getting hired. Once they realize my accent, they know I am different NO and off it goes.


So, my UI is going to be denied because I bring my side of the story that absent any convincing proof that I indulged in inappropriate behavior or poor performance, I insisted on retaliation is the primary motive of my termination and that failing probation is only the pretext. I am not going to apologize for my good measurable work performance and gentleman conduct, nor will I apologize for the for complaining about the inappropriate conduct of some co-workers and pointing out multiple negligence in their work that I came across.

Then I will have 20 days to appeal. I will have the opportunity to subpoena witnesses and documents. I understand that I may need a lawyer at that time.

Yes, I have issues. Being honest, a gentleman and good performance creates resentment with others. I am not going to change my values. I wish there were employers that have minimum core values/ethics and hope to get hired by them. Meanwhile clear my personal & professional reputation via the UI legal process that I am afforded.

Thanks for all your suggestions, now I am prepared for the battle to win.

Morgana
07-19-2012, 05:04 AM
While there are still too many cases where decisions about hiring are made based on protected characteristics, I think you are over simplifying tht the only reason you are not being hired is due to your national origin.

In a recent hiring situation we had candidates who were black, hispanic, asian, middle eastern and romanian as well as from the US. All were qualified. We hired the black candidate so obviously the hispanic, asian, middle eastern and romanian applicants were not hired. It had nothing to do with their national origin but we picked the person who was the best fit based on qualifications and skills. However, each of those employees may feel that the only reason they werent hired was because of their national origin. It may appear that way to them, but it wasnt the case.

For the record, our current employees are black, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Nigerian, Greek, Chinese, and one from Samoa as well as whites.

Dont assume thats the reason you arent being hired. You do a disservice to yourself and everyone else.

HRinMA
07-19-2012, 06:51 AM
Just because NO is the #1 EEOC complaint does not mean all the complaints are valid. The claim I just handled was due to NO. The employee broke a rule but insisted it was due to NO. He had worked for the same manager for 4 years and suddenly said it must be NO. No cause was found on the claim.

EEOC complaints have risen along with the economic downturn. It costs nothing to file and people are angry they don't have a job and want to get back at their former employers. (I do realize that there are many valid cases for the EEOC)

ElleMD
07-19-2012, 09:11 AM
Either you are purposely misunderstanding or you have major comprehension issues. Most of these have been covered and it is clear that you either don't or won't listen to what we have been saying as you are convinced you are the injured party here.

Worrying about what will happen in an appeal is useless. You haven't been denied nor does it seem likely that you will be denied. Poor performance does not disqualify you for benefits. Being obnoxious doesn't either. If those are the reasons your employer gives once they actually do respond, you will get benefits.

daveraj
07-30-2012, 05:07 PM
I should have claimed that the reason for termination: failed probation is only a pretext for discharge. I never had any doubt that I will get UI. I thought once I get to know the reason they provide to the DEO (otherwise the lie), I would respond. Obviously the former employer had given the reason not performing my expected duties (a grand lie). The investigator assigned did not even contact me to get my response (my side of the story) but simply determined to give me UI. That seems very fishy. How would the investigator know that the reason given by my former employer was false?

Is it necessary that only the loser can file the appeal? Why not the winner?

cbg
07-30-2012, 05:36 PM
Why would the winner appeal a decision in his favor?

Betty3
07-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Is it necessary that only the loser can file the appeal? Why not the winner?

Appeal for what reason?

daveraj
07-30-2012, 06:33 PM
Say, to prove that the reason given by my former employer was a blatant lie.

cbg
07-30-2012, 06:36 PM
But if the lie resulted in your being approved for benefits, what is your goal? How will it help you to appeal a decision when you've already won?

daveraj
07-30-2012, 06:52 PM
First and foremost: one thing at a time. Enjoy life. Whatever it throws at you know that there are others who suffer more.

Lies, misleading, untruthful, inaccurate, whatever. The finding of facts must acknowledge this.

Perhaps other employers will think twice before firing people on false grounds; too bad the golden rule is that employer can fire any one at-will good reason, bad reason no reason. Does it cover lies (perhaps comes under bad reason??)?

Anyway, the decision is obviously mailed to me. I have twenty days to appeal. Of course former employer is NOT going to appeal. After all it is taxpayer's money and obviously they would rather pay and have somebody else do the job (dumbed down).

cbg
07-30-2012, 07:36 PM
Someone is confused here, and I don't think it's me.

You asked why the winning party could not appeal the decision. Do you understand that appealing the decision means saying that the claim was decided incorrectly? The party who prevailed in an unemployment claim is not likely to be claiming that the wrong decision was made.

If YOU are given the right to appeal, that means that you are the losing party. As you say, the winning party, the employer, is not likely to appeal. Why should they? Their account is not being charged and they are saving money.

If, on the other hand, you are the winning party, you are hardly likely to be claiming that the wrong decision was made and you should not be receiving benefits.

Don't for one minute imagine that employees don't lie about their unemployment claims. I recall one case which I will not describe in detail, but the circumstances of this employee's firing (and oh, yes, she was fired for cause - don't ever think she wasn't) involved a visit from a uniformed police officer. I cannot even imagine how this employee imagined that she would remain employed after her actions that day. Do you know what she told the UI office? She told them she was RIFed - let go for lack of work.

BOTH employers and employees lie. Not all employers and not all employees, but significant numbers of both. It's not all one sided by a long shot. And no, it's not the taxpayer's money. In NO state is unemployment funded by the taxpayers. In 47 out of 50 states, including Florida, unemployment is 100% funded by employers, who pay a certain percentage of their payroll to the state. In the other 3 states, a fraction of it is paid by employees, and the majority is STILL funded by employers.

HRinMA
07-31-2012, 04:10 AM
It is possible your employer didn't talk to the state so no reason was given. So the state awarded it to you based on no contest from the employer.

daveraj
07-31-2012, 04:39 AM
Hello HRinMA: I did not get the document yet. I was told that employer gave the reason as failure to meet employer's job requirements. It is very fishy that the investigator without contacting me (and getting my side of the story) simply ruled in my favor. Do you have any thoughts on that.

Hello CBG. Yes, the employers pays for the UI compensation and also the increased UI insurance. How does the public employer pay? If not taxpayer's money what else? Any thoughts or comments appreciated.

Morgana
07-31-2012, 09:59 AM
It is not unusual for the ALJ to make an initial decision based on the facts presented by both parties. The employer submits documentation when the employment ends. The employee submits
their side when they apply. If either party disagrees, there is an appeal.
If you were awarded UI, what problem do you have with this?
It appears that you are trying desperately to find something wrong.....even after the ruling was in your favor.
That makes no sense at all and I doubt you will be happy with anything you are told.
I'm done. Good luck to you.

daveraj
07-31-2012, 04:38 PM
I did not get the Notice of Determination yet. Once I get it I will share the sharable contents. I do not believe the former employer defaulted (being a state department). Of-course if any one needs to be fired, I would be one of the last if not the last person to be so. The reason given (as I was told) was that "failing to meet the employer's job performance requirements". That is an out and out lie. I do not know what kind of evidence they presented. I have more than enough evidence to prove that such a charge is absolutely false.

Is there any thing that prevents me from appealing? What about the employer - are they going to appeal? I dream that they will appeal. Again as I mentioned, they are public agency and so it is the taxpayer who are footing my employment compensation & the higher UI insurance. Do the state departments pay for the higher UI insurance or are they exempt?

Any insights will be greatly appreciated.

cbg
07-31-2012, 04:56 PM
"Failure to meet performance requirements" is rarely if ever a disqualifier for benefits. BTW, that is not necessary a lie even if you disagree with it.

However, if that's the best the employer can come up with, I would expect you to be granted benefits. And as already pointed out, you'd be a fool to appeal that decision, even if you disagree with the employer's position.

daveraj
07-31-2012, 05:09 PM
I am already getting the benefits. I did not know that "Failure to meet performance requirements" is a common excuse for firing. There was no performance evaluation done. I not only met all the performance requirements but excelled in many of them. This is evidenced by the monthly reports I submitted and other e-mails.

Why was I fired and not others some of whose performance was pathetic?

DAW
07-31-2012, 05:51 PM
While I understand what you are saying, this is not the sort of thing that UI concerns itselfs with. Big oversimplication, but basically UI looks at two things. Did the employee quit? Was the employee fired for gross misconduct? In theory, that is all UI looks at. The question is not how good an employee you were (UI does not care) or whether you were better then other employees not termination (they do not care about that either), but solely were you fired for gross misconduct or did you quit. Now different states have slightly different rules and different hearing officers within the same state do not make the same decisions even though in theory they are following the same rules. Sort of like umpires in baseball calling "balls and strikes" differently even though everyone has the same rules.

Now legally unrelated to the "does the employee get UI" question is the "was there a 'wrongful' termination" question. The large majority of termination qualify for UI but the very large number of terminations are not legally wrongful. These are legally very different concepts. The legal default for terminations is "employment at will", which means that the employer does not actually needs a real reason to fire someone, just the absence of an illegal reason. Example, if you were a Cubs fan and the other employees were White Sox fans it would be perfectly legal to fire you because you are a Cubs fans. One's sports team affliation is not legally protected.

If your employer wanted to take out a full page ad saying that you were the best employee ever and they fired you anyhow, we still do not (yet) have a wrongful termination. And getting UI says nothing one way or the other about whether a wrongful termination occured. There is no general rule that terminations must be for "just cause" only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_dismissal

cbg
07-31-2012, 05:54 PM
Why was I fired and not others some of whose performance was pathetic?

For that we'll have to wait until Madame Zuileka comes back from vacation, the Magic 8 ball is repaired, or the crystal ball is recalibrated, whichever comes first.

daveraj
07-31-2012, 06:50 PM
Hello DAW:
Florida denies UI for quitting, fired: 1) misconduct or 2) "Failure to meet performance requirements". I understand that I was fired for the 2nd reason. So misconduct is one of the two dis-qualifiers. Let me know if you have any more information.

Hello CBJ:
This employer has never discharged anyone during my time. So while you wait for your persons & events to materialize, could you find a more realistic reasons? Yes, the employer has every right to fire any one for any reason at any time. Then why even bother to commit himself to reason 2) which could never prevail in a court of law in my case? He could have said that fired at-will, period.

I will provide on clue - all other employees at the location are whites.

cbg
07-31-2012, 07:19 PM
Presumably you were whatever non-Caucasion race you are when you were hired. If they were going to fire you for failing probation for that reason, it would have been cheaper and easier not to hire you in the first place. It's very hard to make an effective discrimination claim when you are fired so soon after hire.

But I fully understand that you are not willing to accept any answer except that you were fired because of your race, and you are not going to be happy until someone affirms it. So by all means contact a lawyer or the EEOC and see if they will fulfill that task for you.

daveraj
07-31-2012, 07:43 PM
I was told the reason I was selected for this job was that I was the most qualified among all the applicants (50). More over this department is EO & Affirmative Action employer being a state agency. I do not know if such employers are obligated to show diversity in workplace.

Having failed to prove that I was fired for "Failure to meet performance requirements" and the same standard not applied to other employees some of whom performed far worse than me is very much obvious what they are up-to. Of-course had they applied this standard consistently (for termination)to rest of the employees very few if at all any would be left.

Only some one from a different planet could possibly conclude that it was not wrongful discharge. Had the employer simply not contested my UI claim as many volunteers suggested, would have been better for him. Having fired me solely for "Failure to meet performance requirements" and not prevailing in legal proceeding should be enough proof. What do you think?

Good Night to all.

HRinMA
08-01-2012, 05:53 AM
I was told the reason I was selected for this job was that I was the most qualified among all the applicants (50). More over this department is EO & Affirmative Action employer being a state agency. I do not know if such employers are obligated to show diversity in workplace.

Having failed to prove that I was fired for "Failure to meet performance requirements" and the same standard not applied to other employees some of whom performed far worse than me is very much obvious what they are up-to. Of-course had they applied this standard consistently (for termination)to rest of the employees very few if at all any would be left.

Only some one from a different planet could possibly conclude that it was not wrongful discharge. Had the employer simply not contested my UI claim as many volunteers suggested, would have been better for him. Having fired me solely for "Failure to meet performance requirements" and not prevailing in legal proceeding should be enough proof. What do you think?

Good Night to all.

Maybe the real reason you were fired is because you are so argumentative and won't change your point of view despite having several knowledgable people tell you so!

You realizez that if you have a face to face appeal, the employer could win and you could lose? Why you would want the hassle of the appeal is beyond me. The claim examiner is not going to let you drone on and on in a hearing. Usually they are kept to 1/2 hour for a simple claim to no more than 1 hour for a complicated claim. That includes the time spent reading the applicable section of the law and swearing in all parties. Since your employer lost they would be the first to speak and your time would be limited to responding to what they say.

As another poster likes to say, sometimes who wins comes down to who annoys the examiner less. I can't imagine you being that person.

daveraj
08-01-2012, 08:57 AM
You probably are right HRinMA. The real reason is something different than what is given in the UI response.

Thanks for your concern that I might lose my appeal and the former employer may prevail. I fully appreciate your new information. Yes, the UI referee is really going to be ticked off at me. Perhaps employer could raise other issues at appeal. What are the chances I could lose the appeal? I know it makes no sense. It also makes no sense to falsely accuse me of inadequate work. I will provide to the referee my monthly progress reports that are impresssive and also some e-mails that detail my impressive work. Bottomline: my performance was as good or better than others. It is not whether I met the performance requirements but how much I excleed in them.

Thanks, please let me know. There only less than 20 days to file the appeal. Hope former employer does.

eerelations
08-01-2012, 09:16 AM
You probably are right HRinMA. The real reason is something different than what is given in the UI response...Yes, the UI referee is really going to be ticked off at me...What are the chances I could lose the appeal?

So you're agreeing with HRinMA that the real reason you were let go is because you're so argumentative? Wow! Good for you!

And you're all set to tick off the referee even though you know that will cause you to lose the appeal? Interesting that ticking off a referee is more important to you than getting UI benefits. I was under the mistaken impression that this thread was all about you trying to get UI benefits...and now I find out it's really about how you want to tick off a UI referee! Wow again! You're insane!: eek:

ElleMD
08-01-2012, 09:37 AM
You don't understand how the process works. You file and state your reason for termination. The state sends a notice to the employer listed and asks for verification that this person was indeed employed there and when they were terminated and for what reason. This is usually done by checking off a box on the form (or online). There is no "proof" required or submitted. The employer does not have to justify their decision at this stage. The state looks at the form from you and the one from the employer and if they both have a reason for separation which is not one of the few which disqualifies you for benefits in your state, you are awarded benefits. There is no need to get your side of the story. They really don't care what it is. "Failure to meet requirements" is one of several standard responses an employer can give and it means whatever the employer wants for it to mean. It could mean anything from turning in reports late to failing to follow company rules to just not being a good fit for the department or organization. It is also not a reason for disqualification from benefits. If that is what your employer checked off on the form, the state is going to award you UI so long as you otherwise qualify. Case closed. The vast majority of claims go exactly this way and it is not in any way iindicative of wrongdoing by the employer or proof of any lie. They were not happy with you and you were fired. The reason they gave was totally truthful even if you feel your work product was superior and even if that was true.

You can not just appeal in the hopes of gathering information. Just like a lawsuit, if you win, you do not have a right to appeal. Even if there was an appeal taken, that doesn't mean you are going to get proof of anything other than your employer sharing their belief that you were not meeting their expectations. They are not obligated to turn over performance reviews or evidence of subpar work or any other documentation you may be after.

daveraj
08-01-2012, 01:53 PM
Hello eerelations,
I agreed the part of HRinMA that the real reason was something else. I did not acknowledge that it is argumentative. That something else only the employer knows and is not likely to be honest (say they don't like people from Pakistan). The purpose of UI is to get back into the workforce as soon and as efficiently as possible, not to live off it for a period of time. To that end I am making dilligent efforts. It is taking time due to the specialized nature of the job. If the referee is ticked off, will he go against the truth and cut me off from receiving the UI benefits.

Hello ElleMD,Florida disqualifies UI claims on three grounds (check boxes)

The worker was discharged on (date) ___________________________
by (name) __________________________________________________ (title) ________________________ for (use REMARKS area to give details of the reason for discharge checked below):
1. Inability to perform work/unsatisfactory work performance (not conscious misconduct/worker never performed satisfactorily)
2. Misconduct (In the remarks section, describe the specific event(s), incident(s), or rule infraction(s) that caused
the discharge. If the worker received any warnings, give the date(s) and reason(s).
3. Unsatisfactory job performance during an established initial 90 day employment probationary period of which the worker was notified during the first seven work days.

ElleMD
08-01-2012, 03:22 PM
Number 1 isn't an automatic disqualifier it is just one of the possible reasons and employer might choose. The fact that you were awarded benefits is proof of that. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0443/Sections/0443.101.html

Betty3
08-01-2012, 04:52 PM
Agree with Elle. #1 (inability to perform work/unsatisfactory work performance) is not an automatic denial of benefits.

Florida says this: Inefficiency, unsatisfactory job performance, inadvertencies or ordinary negligence in isolated instances or good faith errors in judgment or discretion are not deemed to be "misconduct" within the meaning of the law, so any of these reasons would not necessarily disqualify you from receiving benefits.

http://www.floridajobs.org:80/frequently-asked-questions-directory/frequently-asked-questions/category/200e7f10-8a0e-4409-a9ff-84d011a3fae6

daveraj
08-01-2012, 07:47 PM
Betty3,

You are right. Thanks for the link. It is very exhaustive and covers everything (almost). Well, I received in mail the
NOTICE OF DETERMINATION.
Section 1: The claimant was discharged for failing to meet the employer's job performance requirements. No information has been submitted which substantiates misconduct.

Appeal has to be filed within 20 days otherwise the determination becomes final. Obviously by not submitting any information regarding my misconduct, the employer has defacto agreed to my UI claim.

Well, as a professional I will have to appeal the determination because, the adjudicator never made me aware of the reason for termination nor communicated the reason for termination nor sought my side of the story. I believe it is a serious ethical violation to deliver finding of facts without giving the defendant his Chance to contest the charge. Second the employer never once at any time communicated to me of my performance. In fact I met or exceeded the performance expectations as evidenced by monthly progress reports I submitted and other e-mails of my achievements.

So, if I appeal the employer is going to submit information which substantiates misconduct on my part and the referee is going to deny my UI and recoop what has already been awarded? This whole thing is very fishy. Like they say the fish rots from the head. I am going to appeal and risk losing everything. How low is everybody going to stoop. Will there be none; not a single person with any moral courage?

HRinMA
08-02-2012, 05:59 AM
Betty3,

You are right. Thanks for the link. It is very exhaustive and covers everything (almost). Well, I received in mail the
NOTICE OF DETERMINATION.
Section 1: The claimant was discharged for failing to meet the employer's job performance requirements. No information has been submitted which substantiates misconduct.

Appeal has to be filed within 20 days otherwise the determination becomes final. Obviously by not submitting any information regarding my misconduct, the employer has defacto agreed to my UI claim.

Well, as a professional I will have to appeal the determination because, the adjudicator never made me aware of the reason for termination nor communicated the reason for termination nor sought my side of the story. I believe it is a serious ethical violation to deliver finding of facts without giving the defendant his Chance to contest the charge. Second the employer never once at any time communicated to me of my performance. In fact I met or exceeded the performance expectations as evidenced by monthly progress reports I submitted and other e-mails of my achievements.

So, if I appeal the employer is going to submit information which substantiates misconduct on my part and the referee is going to deny my UI and recoop what has already been awarded? This whole thing is very fishy. Like they say the fish rots from the head. I am going to appeal and risk losing everything. How low is everybody going to stoop. Will there be none; not a single person with any moral courage?

Even if you appeal at unemployment (which I don't know if a winning side can even appeal) and things go the way you want; what does that get you that you don't already have? So you have a reason, which you still won't agree with, and then what?

You are looking for closure in the wrong place. Your unemployment only lasts a short time so you should put your energy into another job. What will you do in six months or so when you have no job and no unemployment?

daveraj
08-02-2012, 09:04 AM
HRinMA,

Thanks for your peice (gem) of advise. The first and foremost priority is to find another job where it is a pleasure to work (yes, I had one before for a while). I owe it to myself and my children. I am dilligently doing so. As such I am also looking at taking certain programming course/s (the Worksource says that hey will help me financilly in nearby college.

I am going to appeal the first part because:
During my 9 months I have worked never been once mentioned that my performance was lacking in any way. The only comments I had were congratulatory ones.
The UI adjudicator never conveyed the former employer's reason to me so that I can respond. I have no clue in what area I allegedly under performed.
So I need to appeal it.
You are right what is the point? Small people made themselves smaller. Also in on-line applications, i am required to provide the reason for leaving (voluntary/termination). This is a required feild. If Termination, the explanation Box is provided. I can't say that I underperformed. I will say it is termination for no valid reason. that is one of the reasons for appeal.

daveraj
08-02-2012, 06:14 PM
Any suggestions yet? Will have to appeal. Looked at laws pertinent to Performance Evaluations. Should be annual. They are measurable with point system. Unsatisfactory is the lowest of all. I was given the workplan. Was sending the monthly progress reports as required by supervisor. Meeting or exceeding all the objectives in time and efficiently. No way I was unsatisfactory nor needs improvement. Never was performance issues raised. Used it as a pretext to discharge. Boggles my mind how the adjudicator determined without my input. Say, like a judge convicting a defendant without even letting the defendant know what he is charged with. Very fishy.

cbg
08-02-2012, 06:22 PM
Do you understand that no one except the UI office ever sees the reason your employer provides? That it is not public record (even if you are a public employee) and that no prospective employer will ever see it?

daveraj
08-02-2012, 07:24 PM
Do you understand that no one except the UI office ever sees the reason your employer provides? That it is not public record (even if you are a public employee) and that no prospective employer will ever see it?

Why will a potential employer ever hire some one who is fired for a reason?
Second since I lost on performance section and won only by default by default in misconduct section, I have every right to appeal. Will I be provided the reason during the appeal process?
I need to win. Then, I will mention in my job process that I was fired for no reason. This is not nineties or early 2000's. The employers have a glut of very qualified applicants to chose instead of getting one or two only to lose them in a short time (exceptions shortage professions like physicians & software programmers)

As some well wishers advised, my primary goal is to find another job for my sake.

Dogmatique
08-02-2012, 11:17 PM
Dave, I'd like you to leave the thread for a couple of days and then come back and review it.

It should be quite clear not only why you were fired, but also that you're not "getting" how this all works.

daveraj
08-03-2012, 02:40 AM
Hello Dogmatique,

Any person entitled by law to notice of a determination or redetermination issued pursuant to Section 443.151(3), F.S., whose substantial interest is adversely affected thereby may file an appeal from that determination or redetermination.

Since the reason they gave to the UI Adjudicator was that I was discharged for a reason. The adjudicator made the determination as such. The reason was untrue.

Do I have to prove that my substantial interest is adversely affected for the appeal to take place? Please restrict your answers to the relevant matter.

Dogmatique
08-03-2012, 04:55 AM
Hello Dogmatique,

Any person entitled by law to notice of a determination or redetermination issued pursuant to Section 443.151(3), F.S., whose substantial interest is adversely affected thereby may file an appeal from that determination or redetermination.

Since the reason they gave to the UI Adjudicator was that I was discharged for a reason. The adjudicator made the determination as such. The reason was untrue.

Do I have to prove that my substantial interest is adversely affected for the appeal to take place? Please restrict your answers to the relevant matter.



Here is the full text. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0443/Sections/0443.151.html)

Please don't make demands of the volunteers.

cbg
08-03-2012, 06:10 AM
Dave, NO ONE will have access to your unemployment record. NO EMPLOYER is going to see that you were "fired for a reason". They do not have access to that information. The UI office is NEVER going to release that information to ANYONE for less than a court order, and in over 30 years of HR I have never, EVER heard of a court issuing such an order EVER. Your UI records are NOT PUBLIC RECORD. NOTHING in your UI file will EVER have any kind of affect on future employment.

eerelations
08-03-2012, 06:41 AM
I think trying to help this OP is a complete waste of time, he seems to be one of those people who "just doesn't get it" no matter what "it" is. (And this is exactly why he was fired.) I've worked with PITA employees like this and there's just no helping them into a normal reality.

hr for me
08-03-2012, 06:49 AM
Hello Dogmatique,

., whose substantial interest is adversely affected .


I've been reading this for days because I am curious how long you will keep going...and it is making your employer's case very very clear.

You have not had your interests adversely affected! There is no reason to appeal! The only thing you can appeal is whether or not you receive benefits. If you don't receive benefits then you can try to prove the reason you didn't receive them is not what the employer is stating. But if you do receive benefits, there is no reason to appeal! You received UI benefits regardless of what the employer marked. That was NOT adverse. Like CBG stated, no one else will ever see anything the employer sent to the state's UI dept.

I know you want to win. But what you don't seem to realize that in the UI benefits realm, you already have won everything that you can. Regardless of anything the employer put down. And honestly all they did was mark a pre-defined box on a form they received. They didn't go out of their way to think up that "reason". And it looks like it was the best choice of 3. In my state, I think there are something like 10 boxes, so there are more choices, but obviously your state is different.

And there are no laws stating they MUST do performance reviews or even tell you that your performance was bad or not up to their standards. They could think your performance was honey and roses everyday and still terminate you with no reviews/notice. It's better for them in a UI case/appeal if they do reviews/notice, but there is no law requiring them to HAVE to do so. And I bet even if they tried to talk with you about your performance, you attitude and need to be right/win would come through clearly. It's not always about turning in reports on time, etc.

Honestly, I don't think this was ever about your performance but your attitude and need to win on something you are absolutely wrong about. I don't think you see yourself clearly and would strongly suggest hiring a job performance coach to help you work through this issue. Because NO employer wants to deal with someone who always needs to win.

One last thing, your former employer has the right to state anything they believe to be true in job reference checks. If from their perspective, you had poor performance (due to the attitude/need to be right 100% of the time) they can state that to any prospective employer. So if you continue to fight, they can also tell them that you appealed an unemployment claim you had already won. Any prospective employer will get it right then and there and not touch your resume to hire you. Of course, you will blame the ex-employer, because you are always 100% right. You will be hurting your hiring chances much more than your ex-employer ever could have.

I hope you will listen to the multitudes of HR experts who give their time voluntarily and freely to help. That is the goal of this forum. But I doubt you will.....

daveraj
08-03-2012, 07:29 AM
hr for me,

Thanks for your advise. Nice of you to put it that way. I learned a lot. As far as future employment is concerned, I probably will not get any. Too much discrimination in my field. The reason I will be appealing is to prove that for the same or similar minor infractions stated (impractical for any one not have committed) the white employees were not discharged. However you all do not agree even if to this day, hour and minute that is the truth. Discrimination is not a thing of the past, but exists. More over I did raised HWE to the manager and this is what happened.

cbg
08-03-2012, 07:37 AM
The UI commission is the wrong forum to raise that issue. If you are looking to raise a discrimination claim, the proper venue is the EEOC. It has nothing to do with unemployment and the UI commission will not address that question.

Betty3
08-03-2012, 08:51 AM
I think trying to help this OP is a complete waste of time, he seems to be one of those people who "just doesn't get it" no matter what "it" is.

Agree, I've given up replying to this thread.

ElleMD
08-03-2012, 11:18 PM
For whatever reason you refuse to accept the way this works. UI doesn't **** two hoots if you were discriminated against. A UI hearing, which you will not get because as the prevailing party you have no right of appeal, ONLY looks at whether or not you should get UI. It does not uncover the "real" reason for your termination. It does not require your employer to prove you were incompetent, a poor performer, or deserving of termination. You could be employee of the year and your employer could still fire you just because they can and you would be in this exact same position. If they fire you for any reason other than gross misconduct, you get UI. Period. Done. End of story.

Employers know this. It is not even a little bit uncommon for an employer who knows that someone is going to qualify for UI to just not respond or to not contest the award of benefits. Why would they? IT is just a waste of time and resources to contest something you know is going to be granted. They knew when they fired you that you would qualify for UI. It is just a part of doing business.

Who knows why you were "really" fired. UI isn't the forum to find out. UI is essentially insurance which covers you during periods of unemployment much like your auto insurance policy covers auto accidents. As long as you didn't purposely crash your car to cash in on the policy, your carrier is going to pay on the policy. It doesn't really matter if you were really swerved around something in the road versus slid on a wet road. Both causes of the accident mean the carrier picks up the claim. Same here with UI. It doesn't matter if they did discriminate against you or if they legitimately thought you were a crummy worker, as far as UI is concerned, either is an acceptable reason to collect so it doesn't matter which reason it is.

There isn't ANYTHING unethical about UI awarding you benefits without getting your side of the story. It is how it works. They are not investigators. They are not interested in why you were let go unless it was for gross misconduct. Even if they had the information about your case (which they do not) and disagreed with the decision to fire you, it would not change a thing. The exact same thing would still happen; you would get benefits.

If you think you were discriminated against for a reason protected by law, you need to file a claim with the government agency which handles that particular type of claim. If you think it was because of your race, file with the EEOC. They are the ones who handle discrimination complaints. UI does not investigate claims of discrimination nor evaluate the merits of your termination if it wasn't for gross misconduct. Even if your employer did appeal, and it did get to the hearing phase, your employer is not going to be compelled to produce any documentation on the race of other employees, the reason for termination for any other employees, nor even "proof" that your work was substandard. No matter how much you want that to be the case, it simply is not how it works.

I have no idea why you think being fired is the kiss of death. People are fired everyday and yet are not all doomed to wandering the streets unemployed for the rest of their lives. It happens. You need to do what countless others who have been fired have done and dust off the resume, look for another job and move on with life. Assemble a list of references who were happy with your work and let it go.

daveraj
08-04-2012, 04:42 AM
ElleMD,

Thanks for the advise. You seems to be very knowledgeable and perhaps a professional in this field. Let us leave it at that. As mentioned before the Notice of determination mentions that I was fired for a reason - not meeting performance requirements.

This also provides for appeal within 20 days. I disagree with the findings that I was fired for failing performance expectations. So the appeal. How can I claim I won if the findings of fact & law states that I failed performance expectations? Definitely I should be able to reverse the findings in the appeal and the accuser has the burden of proof. The UI adjudicator either colluded or was simply swamped with so much work load that he/she simply got it off her back? That is the first & foremost point. What happens next is not in my control but the referee's (Judge).

One at a time. If I file EEOC (should have done it at the first sign while still employed - but as a gentleman wanted them to realize it themselves) they will also find the fact that I was fired for failing performance expectations. EEOC is not only a joke but also in my opinion colludes with racist employers. My friend a distinguished hydrologist (Ph. D.) working for a City Govt., was reprimanded and suspended fro 3 days by some one who did not know any hydrology. He simply resigned as he has already retired from his previous employer. He mentions me not to go to EEOC as he says that it will be 10 times more stressful than the firing. I will do so after I exhaust the UI process (Appeal -> UI Commission -> District Court of Appeals). There is no point in letting the determination that I failed performance expectations stand. It has to be reversed for any action. I have a lawyer's appointment on Monday. Will consult with him & keep you posted.

Finally thanks for your concern. Yes as I mentioned I am diligently looking for work for my & children's sake. I also mentioned the possibility that I might go back to my country of origin (a developing economy full of life & promise) to my children. I do not like the fact that the most advanced & developed economy is dumbing down because of bureaucrats who need to be referred to psychiatrists and HR personnel who cover-up the mental plague and the EEOC, a very harmful joke.

daveraj
08-04-2012, 06:04 AM
Hello ElleMD,

I did more searching and found that. I am sorry for the previous post. Only the party that received the adverse determination can appeal. So there is no on-line appeal process for my case. However I can file the appeal by mail. I am claiming that the determination is incorrect. I believe it will go straight to the trash-bin even if I claim that termination for a reason - failing performance expectations is incorrect and adversely effecting my re-employment efforts. Yes, Florida re-branded UI as Re-employment Assistance program. Then I will file it in District Court of appeals.

Why will a public agency pass on the monetary burdens of adverse decision to the taxpayers? The public agency is responsible for the taxpayer's dollars and should appeal. Will a complaint force them to appeal?

HRinMA
08-06-2012, 05:11 AM
Hello ElleMD,

I did more searching and found that. I am sorry for the previous post. Only the party that received the adverse determination can appeal. So there is no on-line appeal process for my case. However I can file the appeal by mail. I am claiming that the determination is incorrect. I believe it will go straight to the trash-bin even if I claim that termination for a reason - failing performance expectations is incorrect and adversely effecting my re-employment efforts. Yes, Florida re-branded UI as Re-employment Assistance program. Then I will file it in District Court of appeals.

Why will a public agency pass on the monetary burdens of adverse decision to the taxpayers? The public agency is responsible for the taxpayer's dollars and should appeal. Will a complaint force them to appeal?

Taxpayers don't fund unemployment, businesses do (in a few states the employee also contributes). You are making a very odd claim above (which I bolded). You say that you deserve unemployment so the public official would have decided your case correctly. So that means YOU are wasting the time and money of public agencies by frivolously filing appeals because you don't like the procedure.

As for your other post about the EEOC, it is a long process and isn't easy for either side. In the end, most times the former employee receives a letter to sue and that is it. So another court battle would begin at that point.

I cannot believe your comment about HR professionals, how many times do we have to tell you that you are speaking with HR professionals on this board? It is incredibly rude to ask for someone's help and then insult them.

I will join the other posters in saying I am done with this poster. Good luck throwing away your money on a lawyer.

daveraj
08-07-2012, 01:07 PM
HRinMA,

Thanks for your suggestion. Yesterday I had a consultation with an employment lawyer. He gave me the run-around. mentioned that I have a right to know and receive the reason why exactly i was terminated. mentioned I could contact Florida Open rcords and get the determination.

the meployer is a public (state) agency. So the budjet is the taxpayer's money. UI & related costs in this case are borne by this public anagency and not other private businesses.

I have every right to appeal the determination that is not in my favor (section I, failed to meet job performance requirements). Layer said that DOE will not consider my appeal. Then UI commission & finally UI Appeal in the District Court. That is where I want it to go. Not EEOC where I have the burden of proof.

hr for me
08-08-2012, 07:19 AM
Everytime I read and post I swear I will not post again....argh!

Do you realize that even if you are allowed appeal due to Section 1 (which I doubt) that the UI dept could then reverse it's decision on the fact that you deserve unemployment benefits? And you could lose what you have already been given? IF you are somehow able to get the UI dept to investigate the REAL reason for your termination (which I suspect they can already tell based on your bulldoggedness on this thread and in life), there is a large chance that they will reverse their decision and decide that your employer terminated you for misconduct or another reason that would make you ineligible for benefits.

If you really had a case, the lawyer would not have "given you the run around". No one here is either.....you are just unwilling to hear and listen to the advice that everyone is giving. You don't get to decide which agency you have to deal with on your (perceived but yet uninvestigated and unproven) discrimination issues. It is the EEOC. It's not UI's job to listen for you or to try to investigate/prove why your employer marked what they did on the standard form. They truly DO NOT CARE that (in your opinion) the employer lied, unless it disqualifies you from UI benefits. Then you have a chance to appeal.

I know you think there is a vast conspiracy behind all this...but honestly I suspect whoever filled out the form at your former employer picked the same box they always pick when they don't want to contest unemployment (FOR ANY REASON). Even if you did discovery through open records acts, I doubt you will find anything more than someone 'x'd a specific pre-written box.

And under Florida law the employer does not have to provide a reason for termination at all to you unless you have a contract stating otherwise or specific notice is required due to the WARN act for large employer layoffs . Not sure where your lawyer got that from. Now they might have to provide it to the EEOC should you make a discrimination claim if the EEOC decides to investigate or if the EEOC gives you a right to sue letter and you take them to court. The EEOC is truly your only recourse at this point.

And even if the reason they gave to UI was false and had nothing to do with your job performance and they have another reason that this is a justifiable termination (they just hated your attitude/bulldoggedness, never wrong, insisting that norms don't apply to your case, etc) that is NOT a legally protected characteristic (gender, race, religion, etc), then there still is no recourse.

daveraj
08-08-2012, 08:36 AM
Hello hr for me,

I just got an e-mail from some one who worked for the employer for a long time (now works in private sector) and who I contacted to learn about the job prospects. Obviously he dropped by at the work site and met his former colleagues (co-workers). After that he sent to me a scathing e-mail (work)

"A word of advice. I do not recommend the practice of negative, thoughtless evaluation of resource management programs without full knowledge of the constraints and limitations incurred on those programs beyond the managers control that may require the utilization of sub-optimal data sets or work flow completion. Doing so burns bridges and reduces the likelihood of colleagues assisting with future endeavors."

I always felt this under-current while employed by this Florida State Agency. The air was thick with tension and it was only a matter of time before I was discharged. I hoped to find another job and leave. Now as I understand (affirmed by this fellow), the Natural Resources field is white exclusive. I had been to many meetings where I was the only non-white. That is how it is. When I question this (at great risk) to the employer, the answer I always get is that oh, yes we have lot of females (whites) and they are minority too. What an excuse for not having racial diversity. Unfortunately the top goes along (either involuntarily or voluntarily, I do not know).

With so much hatred by whites (there are exceptions) I have no illusions that I will ever get a job in my field. These are the same folks who wanted to meet my children because of my beautiful family and I introduced my kids to them after they repeatedly requested me to do so. Now I know that they simply are racist jealous and wish me & my family harm because I am blessed with such gems of children. Their daughters live with boyfriends since parents do not give them money for genuine expenses. Bottom-line no jobs at white exclusive workplaces. So no jobs for me. So far I was able to get jobs because, I was the only one who even qualified.

Coming back to the point. If I lose the appeal, I will have to pay back the UI amount. That is fine with me. Then the next step is the District Court of Appeals. Is the judge going to be compliant too? Or will his/her honor show some backbone and stand-up for truth? jUST A THOUGHT. Still better why not file a lawsuit that I failed probation is nothing but a pretext for termination and so I should get the job back without mention of discrimination? I noted some cases where instead of summary judgement an actual judgement was delivered by the Court.

eerelations
08-08-2012, 09:38 AM
OMG he's still here!!! OP's getting crazier by the minute (think Jared Loughner), everyone please stop fuelling his paranoia by responding to him!!! Moderators please lock this thread!!!

hr for me
08-08-2012, 09:56 AM
But if he actually would read that email from the former colleague, that pretty much states exactly why he was terminated although it is 2nd or 3rd hand.

daveraj
08-08-2012, 10:26 AM
If that is exactly the reason why I was terminated then I will be appealing all the way to the Court/s.

cbg
08-08-2012, 11:48 AM
I don't see a single word in the email quoted that provides any kind of support for a discrimination claim - still less is there any kind of basis to force the UI commission to determine an issue that they have no jurisdiction over.

Morgana
08-08-2012, 12:22 PM
OMG he's still here!!! OP's getting crazier by the minute), everyone please stop fuelling his paranoia by responding to him!!! Moderators please lock this thread!!!

Amen to that!

ElleMD
08-08-2012, 02:43 PM
So now you were fired because your coworkers were jealous of your beautiful family?? Wow! Even if true that is not at all in any way illegal nor does it even slightly implicate racism. If your idea of racism is "Daveraj, your children are beautiful, I am glad I finally got to meet them", your problems are well beyond anything this board can provide. Same with the email from your colleague. You created a program which did not fit with the organizational culture, was not practical given the circumstances and caused resentment. Absolutely nothing about that is in any way racist. Even if there aren't any other minorities, the reason for YOUR termination was not in any way racist. To prevail you would still have to prove that race was the reason YOU were fired. As they knew your race when you were hired and you were not meeting their expectations as far as the job, you don't have a case. Even the lawyer you saw told you that much.

I strongly suggest you read up on how the appellate process works. You can not just "skip" to the court of your choice. Specifically you need to read up on appellate jurisdiction and original jurisdiction.

The horse is glue at this point but if you believe you were terminated for race, your ONLY recourse is with the EEOC. Just as you can not file a house fire claim with your auto insurance policy, you can not file a wrongful termination claim with UI.

daveraj
08-09-2012, 12:30 AM
Hello ElleMD,

Glad to read your response.

I was reprimanded for false reason. Giving false reason is a proof of discrimination. Isn't it? The employer knows that and so did not provide this evidence of misconduct. UI after investigating the reason for discharge issues a finding of facts. Obviously the determination is that I did not meet job performance requirements. The employer must have given an incident or two. Otherwise how can a determination be made if the employer simply checked off a box and provided nothing else. More over I looked at the sample form for "finding of facts". It has the employer's statement, the signature of adjudicator under the statement that the same interviewed the claimant. The interview never happened. Lawyer said that the former employer would have given a neutral statement of failure to meet job performance requirements. Had I been interviewed, I would have contested that and provided latest copied of my progress reports and put them on the defensive.

Now, the important part:
Appeal.
I am going to appeal the determination that I am not aware of any job performance issues. I would like to know what the issue was, when it occurred and whether I was put on a corrective path. Does that constitute an appeal? Or simply asking for the "finding of facts" document?
Also, should I include a copy of my reprimand that states the policy violation and includes the expected corrective path?

Please answer the above questions before making other comments.

I know EEOC generally gives neutral determination & right to sue. One does not have to wait for that. Once the EEOC accepts the case, one can sue without waiting for the EEOC determination. Lawyer mentions that I can use the reason the employer gave to UI ("finding of facts") in the lawsuit.

I suspect the UI adjudicator wanted to do a favor to the fellow bureaucrat (another state employee) and simply skipped the interview. Will the adjudicator lie in the signature that the claimant was interviewed? Lawyer said that I have the right to receive this document through open government rule.



As far as I started a program that did not fit the culture, not practical & caused resentment is wrong. Resentment part of it is absolutely right - jealousy, morals, their children shacking-up, live-in boyfriends leaving them, no current man, my achievements, inappropriate relationship between Asst. Manger & her subordinate (supervisor) managers who are insecure, etc.. Previous employees tried to produced the results and were a dismal failure. So after I was hired the goals were packaged in a table. I was meeting or exceeding the goals. That also meant evaluating the previous work & rejecting all that and starting a new process which was succeeding. Of course this caused resentment among rest of the employees, all way to the top. That is the culture.

cbg
08-09-2012, 05:23 AM
Okay, this horse has been beaten long enough. Dave doesn't want to hear anything we have to say. Time to put this whole issue to bed.

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