Hi,

My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa.
She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including:
- Marriage Certificate
- Wedding Pictures
- Our community marriage declaration
- Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage
- Letters and email exchanges
- Her passport with our last name on it
- Tax Papers
- All the necessary forms
- etc

However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us
circling
around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony).

We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother
was sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10
days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say
that this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They
claim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a
legally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai,
India.

What do I do now? Please help.

stay in India


"Hitesh" <hiteshnews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90e3ca6d.0311112047.4f4e0cd0@posting.google.c om... Hi, My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa. She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including: - Marriage Certificate - Wedding Pictures - Our community marriage declaration - Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage - Letters and email exchanges - Her passport with our last name on it - Tax Papers - All the necessary forms - etc However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us circling around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony). We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother was sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10 days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say that this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They claim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a legally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai, India. What do I do now? Please help.

Well, the first thing for you should be to try and understand the other
side. The consular officer's job is to prevent people from getting a visa
through fraud. A perfectly legally valid marriage can still be fraudulent
if it is entered into for the sole purpose of securing immigration.

For instance, a K-3 based on a US marriage could well also get denied if
you can't show pictures of the couple at the altar (and your culture
considers that an important part of a wedding).

What you would have to do to overcome this is show that despite this
problem, the marriage is genuine. Affidavits from family members, evidence
that you have courted her well before the wedding (or in the alternate,
evidence that your parents arranged the marriage), and so on.

The claim that you are engaged rather than married is a bit absurd,
though. Apart from the documentation that you provided, it also doesn't
make sense. If you really were engaged, then you would still be eligible
for a visa, albeit a K-1 rather than a K-3.

I think that this is a case of a junior officer making a decision without
really understanding the situation. It happens from time to time,
unfortunately. Often, the easiest remedy in such a case is to simply
reapply, writing a polite letter explaining why the decision was wrong.

However, before you do that, I would strongly recommend you consult with a
lawyer, or at least somebody experienced, to make sure that this really
was a wrong decision. Sometimes, there can be subtle things that as a
layperson don't seem to mean much, but may have justified the conclusion.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:47:08 -0800, Hitesh wrote:
Hi, My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa. She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including: - Marriage Certificate - Wedding Pictures - Our community marriage declaration - Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage - Letters and email exchanges - Her passport with our last name on it - Tax Papers - All the necessary forms - etc However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us circling around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony). We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother was sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10 days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say that this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They claim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a legally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai, India. What do I do now? Please help.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

On 11 Nov 2003 20:47:08 -0800, hiteshnews@yahoo.com (Hitesh) wrote:
Hi,My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa.She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including:- Marriage Certificate- Wedding Pictures- Our community marriage declaration- Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage- Letters and email exchanges- Her passport with our last name on it- Tax Papers- All the necessary forms- etcHowever, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of uscirclingaround fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony).We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmotherwas sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they saythat this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. Theyclaim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have alegally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai,India.What do I do now? Please help.

You could live in India and therefore we won't have to put up with
another Indian moving to our country.

Hitesh, really sorry to hear this. Can you tell me exactly what they
told you? I know you said that the Visa got rejected, but did they
give you options? Did they say, that you need to just do the fire
ceremony now and provide those pics, and that they'll give her the
Visa then? Or did they say that they'll just back in touch with
you.....how did they leave it with your wife?


Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.12.06.42.27.519262@privacy.net>... Well, the first thing for you should be to try and understand the other side. The consular officer's job is to prevent people from getting a visa through fraud. A perfectly legally valid marriage can still be fraudulent if it is entered into for the sole purpose of securing immigration. For instance, a K-3 based on a US marriage could well also get denied if you can't show pictures of the couple at the altar (and your culture considers that an important part of a wedding). What you would have to do to overcome this is show that despite this problem, the marriage is genuine. Affidavits from family members, evidence that you have courted her well before the wedding (or in the alternate, evidence that your parents arranged the marriage), and so on. The claim that you are engaged rather than married is a bit absurd, though. Apart from the documentation that you provided, it also doesn't make sense. If you really were engaged, then you would still be eligible for a visa, albeit a K-1 rather than a K-3. I think that this is a case of a junior officer making a decision without really understanding the situation. It happens from time to time, unfortunately. Often, the easiest remedy in such a case is to simply reapply, writing a polite letter explaining why the decision was wrong. However, before you do that, I would strongly recommend you consult with a lawyer, or at least somebody experienced, to make sure that this really was a wrong decision. Sometimes, there can be subtle things that as a layperson don't seem to mean much, but may have justified the conclusion. On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:47:08 -0800, Hitesh wrote: Hi, My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa. She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including: - Marriage Certificate - Wedding Pictures - Our community marriage declaration - Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage - Letters and email exchanges - Her passport with our last name on it - Tax Papers - All the necessary forms - etc However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us circling around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony). We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother was sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10 days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say that this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They claim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a legally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai, India. What do I do now? Please help. -- Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet newsgroups. Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction) My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See my Web site for information on how to contact me. Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

The quickest way around it might be to quickly have an Arya Samaj
wedding and both videotape and photagraph the whole thing.

Hitesh wrote: Hi, My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa. She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including: - Marriage Certificate - Wedding Pictures - Our community marriage declaration - Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage - Letters and email exchanges - Her passport with our last name on it - Tax Papers - All the necessary forms - etc However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us circling around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony). We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother was sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10 days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say that this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They claim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a legally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai, India. What do I do now? Please help.

> You could live in India and therefore we won't have to put up with another Indian moving to our country.

Oh, so I take it you are an American Indian then. If not, why don't u go
back to where u came from immigrant, if you want to start calling the USA
your country u tosspot.

M. Ranjit Mathews wrote:
The quickest way around it might be to quickly have an Arya Samaj wedding and both videotape and photagraph the whole thing.

Wouldn't they think that is indicating the original wedding was fake?

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:58:12 +0000 (UTC), "alfie"
<alfie597@hotmail.comnospam> wrote:
You could live in India and therefore we won't have to put up with another Indian moving to our country.Oh, so I take it you are an American Indian then. If not, why don't u goback to where u came from immigrant, if you want to start calling the USAyour country u tosspot.
Yes, I have Apache blood in me. What about you asshole?

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:47:30 -0700, Graphic Queen
<graphicxoxoqueen@xxxhotmail.com> wrote:Yes, I have Apache blood in me. What about you asshole?

Damn, my white-european ancestors failed to exterminate your kind!

They basically said that they would need to see the pictures with us
doing the fire ceremony however it's odd because, being born and
brought up in the US, whenever my cousins performed a Hindu ceremony,
they had to go to the courts to get it registered so that it'd be
considered an official marriage however here, it seems to be the
opposite. It's beyond my comprehension. The thing that worries me is
that they said that they're going to close the file and send it back
to the US. Does this mean I have to refile? What about my I-130
processing? Does that mean that too has been closed or only the K3
part?


postfunpostfun@hotmail.com (Hero) wrote in message news:<85b472f7.0311120731.937809d@posting.google.com>... Hitesh, really sorry to hear this. Can you tell me exactly what they told you? I know you said that the Visa got rejected, but did they give you options? Did they say, that you need to just do the fire ceremony now and provide those pics, and that they'll give her the Visa then? Or did they say that they'll just back in touch with you.....how did they leave it with your wife? Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.12.06.42.27.519262@privacy.net>... Well, the first thing for you should be to try and understand the other side. The consular officer's job is to prevent people from getting a visa through fraud. A perfectly legally valid marriage can still be fraudulent if it is entered into for the sole purpose of securing immigration. For instance, a K-3 based on a US marriage could well also get denied if you can't show pictures of the couple at the altar (and your culture considers that an important part of a wedding). What you would have to do to overcome this is show that despite this problem, the marriage is genuine. Affidavits from family members, evidence that you have courted her well before the wedding (or in the alternate, evidence that your parents arranged the marriage), and so on. The claim that you are engaged rather than married is a bit absurd, though. Apart from the documentation that you provided, it also doesn't make sense. If you really were engaged, then you would still be eligible for a visa, albeit a K-1 rather than a K-3. I think that this is a case of a junior officer making a decision without really understanding the situation. It happens from time to time, unfortunately. Often, the easiest remedy in such a case is to simply reapply, writing a polite letter explaining why the decision was wrong. However, before you do that, I would strongly recommend you consult with a lawyer, or at least somebody experienced, to make sure that this really was a wrong decision. Sometimes, there can be subtle things that as a layperson don't seem to mean much, but may have justified the conclusion. On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:47:08 -0800, Hitesh wrote: Hi, My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa. She just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including: - Marriage Certificate - Wedding Pictures - Our community marriage declaration - Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage - Letters and email exchanges - Her passport with our last name on it - Tax Papers - All the necessary forms - etc However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us circling around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony). We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother was sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10 days later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say that this cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They claim that we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a legally binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai, India. What do I do now? Please help. -- Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet newsgroups. Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction) My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See my Web site for information on how to contact me. Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Hitesh, if I were you I would immediately hire a good immigration attorney
with lots of consular experience (10 years would be good) and state
department contacts. I think some quick agressive moves are needed here.
If they close the file and send it back, I think you are looking at long
delays, whatever happens.

"Hitesh" <hiteshnews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90e3ca6d.0311121634.7a9659a6@posting.google.c om...
They basically said that they would need to see the pictures with us doing the fire ceremony however it's odd because, being born and brought up in the US, whenever my cousins performed a Hindu ceremony, they had to go to the courts to get it registered so that it'd be considered an official marriage however here, it seems to be the opposite. It's beyond my comprehension. The thing that worries me is that they said that they're going to close the file and send it back to the US. Does this mean I have to refile? What about my I-130 processing? Does that mean that too has been closed or only the K3 part?
postfunpostfun@hotmail.com (Hero) wrote in message
news:<85b472f7.0311120731.937809d@posting.google.com>...
Hitesh, really sorry to hear this. Can you tell me exactly what they told you? I know you said that the Visa got rejected, but did they give you options? Did they say, that you need to just do the fire ceremony now and provide those pics, and that they'll give her the Visa then? Or did they say that they'll just back in touch with you.....how did they leave it with your wife?
Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.11.12.06.42.27.519262@privacy.net>...
Well, the first thing for you should be to try and understand the
other side. The consular officer's job is to prevent people from getting a
visa through fraud. A perfectly legally valid marriage can still be
fraudulent if it is entered into for the sole purpose of securing immigration. For instance, a K-3 based on a US marriage could well also get denied
if you can't show pictures of the couple at the altar (and your culture considers that an important part of a wedding). What you would have to do to overcome this is show that despite this problem, the marriage is genuine. Affidavits from family members,
evidence that you have courted her well before the wedding (or in the
alternate, evidence that your parents arranged the marriage), and so on. The claim that you are engaged rather than married is a bit absurd, though. Apart from the documentation that you provided, it also
doesn't make sense. If you really were engaged, then you would still be
eligible for a visa, albeit a K-1 rather than a K-3. I think that this is a case of a junior officer making a decision
without really understanding the situation. It happens from time to time, unfortunately. Often, the easiest remedy in such a case is to simply reapply, writing a polite letter explaining why the decision was
wrong. However, before you do that, I would strongly recommend you consult
with a lawyer, or at least somebody experienced, to make sure that this
really was a wrong decision. Sometimes, there can be subtle things that as a layperson don't seem to mean much, but may have justified the
conclusion.
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:47:08 -0800, Hitesh wrote:
> My wife is in India and I filed the I-130 followed by the K-3 Visa.
She > just had her interview and we had all the paperwork including: - > Marriage Certificate > - Wedding Pictures > - Our community marriage declaration > - Our community magazine publication announcing our marriage -
Letters > and email exchanges > - Her passport with our last name on it - Tax Papers > - All the necessary forms > - etc > > However, the Visa got rejected because we didn't have pictures of us > circling around fire (as part of a Hindu ceremony). > > We didn't perform all of the Indian Ceremony because my Grandmother
was > sick and wanted to see us married. My grandmother passed away 10
days > later and now these folks won't give a visa because they say that
this > cicling around the fire ceremony pictures don't exist. They claim
that > we are not married, but rather engaged even though I have a legally > binding marriage certficate issued by the city of Mumbai, India. > > What do I do now? Please help.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:58:12 +0000 (UTC), "alfie"
<alfie597@hotmail.comnospam> did say unto me:
You could live in India and therefore we won't have to put up with another Indian moving to our country.Oh, so I take it you are an American Indian then. If not, why don't u goback to where u came from immigrant, if you want to start calling the USAyour country u tosspot.

Oh no...not this lame *** tripe.... Just for the record,
anyone born in the U.S. is NOT an immigrant. That whole "the only real
citizens of the U.S. are the native americans" line is a bunch of
crap. I'm not an immigrant, I'm a true citizen since I was born here.
So is anyone else who was born in the States. You can say my ancestors
at some point were immigrants, but not me, and not anyone else who was
born here. Native Americans are NOT the only real citizens, and all
others are "immigrants."

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:58:12 +0000 (UTC), "alfie"
<alfie597@hotmail.comnospam> did say unto me:
You could live in India and therefore we won't have to put up with another Indian moving to our country.Oh, so I take it you are an American Indian then. If not, why don't u goback to where u came from immigrant, if you want to start calling the USAyour country u tosspot.

Oh no...not this lame *** tripe.... Just for the record,
anyone born in the U.S. is NOT an immigrant. That whole "the only real
citizens of the U.S. are the native americans" line is a bunch of
crap. I'm not an immigrant, I'm a true citizen since I was born here.
So is anyone else who was born in the States. You can say my ancestors
at some point were immigrants, but not me, and not anyone else who was
born here. Native Americans are NOT the only real citizens, and all
others are "immigrants."

"Sylvia Ottemoeller" <sottemoe@saonet.ucla.edu> wrote in message news:<bouljt$c6t$1@gladiola.noc.ucla.edu>... Hitesh, if I were you I would immediately hire a good immigration attorney with lots of consular experience (10 years would be good) and state department contacts. I think some quick agressive moves are needed here. If they close the file and send it back, I think you are looking at long delays, whatever happens.

This seems exceedingly weird. I would ask your Congressman for
assistance, and I would also seek a court order attesting to your
marriage.

For the rest, it depends how much money you have to spend. They can't
keep you apart indefinitely, but they can cause you temporary grief.

I didn't see a statement as to whether you are an Amcit or not. If you
have a US passport, then you are in a somewhat bettr position. Indeed,
you could turn the tables on the consular officer if you could get an
assignment abroad with a US employer and then seek "expedited
naturalization" for your wife. (8 USC § 1430(b))

"Sylvia Ottemoeller" <sottemoe@saonet.ucla.edu> wrote in message news:<bouljt$c6t$1@gladiola.noc.ucla.edu>... Hitesh, if I were you I would immediately hire a good immigration attorney with lots of consular experience (10 years would be good) and state department contacts. I think some quick agressive moves are needed here. If they close the file and send it back, I think you are looking at long delays, whatever happens.

This seems exceedingly weird. I would ask your Congressman for
assistance, and I would also seek a court order attesting to your
marriage.

For the rest, it depends how much money you have to spend. They can't
keep you apart indefinitely, but they can cause you temporary grief.

I didn't see a statement as to whether you are an Amcit or not. If you
have a US passport, then you are in a somewhat bettr position. Indeed,
you could turn the tables on the consular officer if you could get an
assignment abroad with a US employer and then seek "expedited
naturalization" for your wife. (8 USC § 1430(b))

mrtravel <postmaster@x.x> wrote in message news:<l%tsb.123$dt7.47@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>... M. Ranjit Mathews wrote: The quickest way around it might be to quickly have an Arya Samaj wedding and both videotape and photagraph the whole thing. Wouldn't they think that is indicating the original wedding was fake?

Not at all. There are lots of "limping marriages" valid in one
jurisdiction but not in another. The "rule of validation" says that
once you have been domiciled (or perhaps habitually resident) in a
jurisdiction that recognizes the marriage, you are deemed married
everywhere. But it is safer to marry again when the impediment is
removed (by a divorce, a death of prior spouse, a change in religion).
A civil marriage will be enough. Then the only remaining wrinkle is
the legitimacy of children born during the period of the limping
marriage. (Most, not all, jurisdictions provide for retroactive
legitimation or legitimation by declaration of paternity.)

mrtravel <postmaster@x.x> wrote in message news:<l%tsb.123$dt7.47@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>... M. Ranjit Mathews wrote: The quickest way around it might be to quickly have an Arya Samaj wedding and both videotape and photagraph the whole thing. Wouldn't they think that is indicating the original wedding was fake?

Not at all. There are lots of "limping marriages" valid in one
jurisdiction but not in another. The "rule of validation" says that
once you have been domiciled (or perhaps habitually resident) in a
jurisdiction that recognizes the marriage, you are deemed married
everywhere. But it is safer to marry again when the impediment is
removed (by a divorce, a death of prior spouse, a change in religion).
A civil marriage will be enough. Then the only remaining wrinkle is
the legitimacy of children born during the period of the limping
marriage. (Most, not all, jurisdictions provide for retroactive
legitimation or legitimation by declaration of paternity.)