Biggest adjustments?? [Archive]

JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation!

This is an OT (off topic) discussion but we seem to have a lot of them
on here.... many started by me :) and even our moderator started one
recently so........

As a Brit, I am still amazed at the differences in cultures. I wouldn't
like to go into any great detail here but I would like to say that
there are many pluses to even out the minuses and I am settling well
into my new home.

You have to come with an open mind. I still find myself comparing what I
see with what I left behind, whether it's good or bad. I guess that it
is reasonable to do that and I am sure that it is something most
immigrants do. I am sure that will ease with time and I will be doing
things the other way round when I go back to Britain on holiday!

Someone said that Britain and America are two countries separated by the
same language and that is a very true expression as the language
difference is one of things that comes as the biggest surprise. I
travelled here a few times before moving to the USA to marry and I think
it is essential to see what you are letting yourself in for before
taking the plunge.

A tolerant and understanding spouse certainly helps!

John

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JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation!

This isn't really an adjustment, more of a pet peeve. My fiance hates
the word precipitation. Whenever we watch the weather here he always
complains about the use of that word. He says, "If it's going to rain
just say rain, if it's snow just say snow what's with all the
'precipitation'!" Watching the weather with a rainy forecast now brings
a smile to my face whenever the meterologist says precipitation. It's
something small but I get a big kick out of it...it's a nice little
outside reminder of him while we're separated.

MarDae

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Alex

10-10-2003, 10:36 AM

Being Canadian there is not much. For me it would be the medical care.
Not being able to just go and see a doc when you need to, but instead
having to worry about having enough money to do it. I am enjoying the
warmer winters but not the humidity in the summer. But I guess the
biggest bummer for me is the loss of $350 to $650 (per month) of my
Canadian disability to the exchange rate.

Alexj

sunflwrgrl13 wrote: Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-) Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation! -- Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Noorah101

10-10-2003, 10:45 AM

Interesting topic! My fiance is not here yet, but I'm anxious to see
his reaction to many many things here in the US, and of course to help
him adjust along the way :-)

He and I have discussed all the adjustments that will need to be made
(on both our parts, not just his!), and he understands that he will be
learning a whole new set of "rules" here in daily life. But on a
personal level between the two of us, it's comforting to know that we
will each contribute something from our individual cultures within our
household; merging them to create our own personalized "sub-culture".

I think the thing he will find most disturbing is the public show of
affection here in the US. Holding hands, or an arm around the shoulder,
or a peck on the cheek is acceptable, but anything beyond that, in his
eyes, needs the phrase "get a room!!" He really didn't believe me when
I told him we kiss in public here. Wait till he sees high-school kids
necking on the way home from school....yikes!! LOL

Rene

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JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 11:19 AM

I moved to the US when I was 11, so in that sense I guess I am pretty
"Americanized" already, considering I remember more of my life in the US
than Germany. :) What is hard for me is the fact that I have less rights
now as a married adult than I did when I was a teenager! I had a drivers
license and a car and everything and now I have neither and am "locked"
in the house.

What I miss though, and I think this has a lot to do with Atlanta (the
town where rush hour goes from noon Sunday to Saturday evening, haha),
is that you can't walk ANYWHERE. Living in London I didn't have a car
and I relied on walking and the tube or buses...and I loved that. And
about all other European cities in general. In Atlanta you are lost
without a car.

Then little other things I miss are stuff like food and sweets. Like
German chocolates, the variety of cheese and bread (especially in
Germany, mmmmh) you get in Europe. Or getting used to cooking certain
dishes and not being able to get all ingredients, or when you do you
have to go to special places where they are costly (like the nice soft
mozarella you use for tomato and mozarella cost 78 pence at ASDA in the
UK and costs $4.99 at Kroger in the US). The food goes both ways of
course. You get used to the convenience of certain things that aren't
available in all countries.

Ohh, and something I have yet to get used to after basically 10 years of
living in the US is the pride in the American flag and being patriotic
in general. I guess Germany isn't very big in displaying it's flag due
to the history of the country, but I always have to grin at the
cheesiness when you watch the news for example and they have this giant
American flag waving or something. I think sometimes it's just taken a
little TOO far.

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Lindsey

10-10-2003, 11:29 AM

I think the hardest thing for me has not been a difference as such but the
realisation that I've moved here for the rest of my life now. its not a
long holiday that I'll be going home back to the UK from eventually.

I've only been here for 6 months, but at the moment I don't see myself
wanting to live here forever. I could definitely stay for a few years but I
want to go home eventually - just got to convince my husband of that!

As for differences, though, I think the biggest is health care. I was
worried I needed to go the dentist the other day and the first thing that
crosses my mind is "How much is it going to cost?". Back in England I would
have just booked an appointment without giving it a second thought.

Lindsey

"sunflwrgrl13" <member@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1006439.1065804312@britishexpats.com... Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-) Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation! -- Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation!

This isn't a huge adjustment, but I know it drives David crazy everytime
he gets carded for a drink. He's well above the drinking age and when
they ask I can almost see the steam coming out of his ears. Obviously,
if that's our biggest problem, we're doing okay ;), but wanted to see if
it bothered anybody else!

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JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Lindsey
I've only been here for 6 months, but at the moment I don't see myself
wanting to live here forever. I could definitely stay for a few years but I
want to go home eventually - just got to convince my husband of that!

Well there is nothing wrong with not wanting to live in the US forever.
When I get older I would definitely consider retiring back to Europe
with my husband. I think America is an amazing place when it comes to
business. The whole attitude of anything is possible. It is much easier
to open a business in the US than it is in Europe for example (from what
I have been told). On the other hand I think once you get to a certain
age where you can't do everything yourself anymore Europe would be
better. When I think of older people that have to go to retirement homes
here for example, vs my g'ma who is 83 and can still do so many things
in Germany that she definitely couldn't do if she lived in the States.

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JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by girlyflyer
This isn't a huge adjustment, but I know it drives David crazy everytime he gets carded for a drink. He's well above the drinking age and when they ask I can almost see the steam coming out of his ears. Obviously, if that's our biggest problem, we're doing okay ;), but wanted to see if it bothered anybody else!

*L* Yeah, I can totally see that. Being used to European standards where
you can drink at 16 or 18 (but you can still get away with it at a
younger age than that) and then moving to the US and still being carded
when you're 60 (hey, some places DO card EVERYONE) is pretty strange. I
don't mind it because well...I'm only 21. Actually once I was asked by
someone if my sister and I were twins (she's 15) so yeah, people think
I'm young anyway. I guess you have to TRY and think of if as a
compliment that you look too young to drink. ;)

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Derek

10-10-2003, 11:50 AM

> Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

Coming from Canada (Toronto area) and having lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma for 2
years now, I can comment on some things.

First off, I must say that coming from Canada, I THOUGHT there would be no
adjustments to deal with besides the obvious of leaving family / friends
behind. Boy how wrong I was.

My biggest adjustment has very little to do with a particular country. I
moved from a high urban area of southern Ontario to a high rural area of the
southern USA. This was a massive adjustment and one I am still dealing with
today. Below are my Good / Bad personal adjustment points based -
obviously - on my own point of view and experiences.

GOOD -

- The patriotism. Even in "the sticks" of a rural state, it is hard to not
find an American flag within a stones throw. The level of patriotism and
country pride I have experienced in the USA far outpaces any level of
patriotism I have seen or experienced in Canada.
- The quality of the medical care. Even though the medical care in Canada
is free, from what I have seen and experienced so far, the quality is higher
and of a more thorough nature in the USA.
- The prices (this may be a local Oklahoma vs Ontario Canada phenomenon).
Comparatively, everything in Oklahoma is cheap, cheap, cheap. Housing
costs, rent, gas, taxes (of all kinds), insurance, etc, etc, etc, etc are
generally much cheaper than where I lived in Canada.
- The "Business" atmosphere. I didn't really know how to describe this one,
but it is one that I have noticed. I read about this before moving to the
USA: that everyone is willing to talk about business and it is a very liked
subject. Well, I LOVE anything business related myself and I have found
this to be true. I love the business atmosphere down here in the USA.
- The American highway system and design. IE, Interstates, US highways,
etc, etc. Cities of the same size in Canada do not have anywhere near as
big and well-designed highway systems as here in the USA.
- The support for local sports teams, IE, high school football. I was
SHOCKED that a town of well under 3,000 people actually sells season tickets
that SELL-OUT year after year to its high school football games. I still
haven't got used to seeing a news helicopter land in a small town to cover
its high school football game. Some of the high school football stadiums in
Oklahoma are bigger than some places Ontario college football teams play at.
College football is a religion down here. I have adopted the Oklahoma
Sooners (#1 in the nation - oh yeah) as my favorite college team - basically
because everyone else in my family loves them - but I can't even get a
ticket to go see them, hard tickets to get.

BAD -

- All the Chevy Suburbans / Tahoe's / Other equivalent sized SUV's on the
road. My little Honda Accord has trouble seeing around these. And I
shutter to think how myself and my Accord would fare in a battle with on of
these Chevy's. At first, I could not understand the American fascination
with these vehicles, but after having driven a Chevy Suburban for almost 2
years now (my wife's) before finally purchasing a Honda Accord, I can see
what it is. It was difficult to adjust to a car again.
- The racism I have experienced in the South. The "N" word is spoken
naturally by people around here without even a thought towards it.
- Calling a country home that a large part of the world hates - for whatever
reason that may be. That's part of the responsibility of becoming
"Americanized" I guess, and the inevitable price America pays for putting
its military presence around the world. Canada - for obvious reasons - has
never had this problem.
- The medical bills that keep coming in the mail.
- Having a few close people to me go through Identity theft down here in the
USA. I am now paranoid about giving my vital information to ANYONE. In
theory, identity theft is just as easy in Canada as the system is virtually
identical, but it has not skyrocketed lately like it has in the USA.
- Not at all used to having to look at the cloud rotation and decide if I
need to take cover or not....that's what I get for moving to tornado alley I
guess though.

NEITHER GOOD OR BAD, JUST DIFFERENT

- Can't find a decent coffee place....STILL after 2 years of trying.
- All the different levels of schools. Middle school, junior high school,
etc, etc. One town here of only 10,000 or so has a dedicated 6th grade and
a dedicated 7th grade school. I haven't figure out why this is the case
yet, but plan on doing so before having kids. I went to one school until
grade 8 and one school for high school, that's it.

I have probably missed many things in this post, but that is what came to
mind and stood out for me.

JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Noorah101
Interesting topic! My fiance is not here yet, but I'm anxious to see his reaction to many many things here in the US, and of course to help him adjust along the way :-)

He and I have discussed all the adjustments that will need to be made (on both our parts, not just his!), and he understands that he will be learning a whole new set of "rules" here in daily life. But on a personal level between the two of us, it's comforting to know that we will each contribute something from our individual cultures within our household; merging them to create our own personalized "sub-culture".

I think the thing he will find most disturbing is the public show of affection here in the US. Holding hands, or an arm around the shoulder, or a peck on the cheek is acceptable, but anything beyond that, in his eyes, needs the phrase "get a room!!" He really didn't believe me when I told him we kiss in public here. Wait till he sees high-school kids necking on the way home from school....yikes!! LOL

Rene

O/T - O/T

I think I agree with him..... They do need to get a room!!!!!! Just
last Friday, I saw a couple making out at the bar of restaurant I was in
and I wanted to slap them off their barstools. I'm not a prude but the
last thing I want to see while I'm trying to eat is two drunks sticking
their tongues down each other's throats.

:scared:

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Derek

10-10-2003, 11:58 AM

"Duran" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm6v1r$b8n@dispatch.concentric.net... Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

I should also point out that when I first came to America, I was comparing
everything to how it was in Canada and using Canada as my base frame of
reference. Well, after 2 years of living in the USA, when visiting Canada,
I am now comparing everything to how it is in the USA and use the USA as my
base frame of reference. I just caught myself doing this and realized it on
our most recent visit back to Canada in early September of 2003. So I guess
I am becoming more "Americanized". I finally consider America my home now
as well which I thought would take a lot longer than 2 years.

Andy Platt

10-10-2003, 12:27 PM

"girlyflyer" <member@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1006599.1065811103@britishexpats.com... Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13 Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-) Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation! This isn't a huge adjustment, but I know it drives David crazy everytime he gets carded for a drink. He's well above the drinking age and when they ask I can almost see the steam coming out of his ears. Obviously, if that's our biggest problem, we're doing okay ;), but wanted to see if it bothered anybody else!

That used to drive me mad too. After a while I just started laughing at
them. It's only happened once since I've had my daughter. She was about 1 at
the time and I said, "Who are you carding, me or her?". The person was
puzzled. "Well, I said - she looks closer to 21 than I do and you have a
sign right there that says you only card below 30 so that can't be me".

Yes, if people are going to be so stupid they can't tell the difference
between a 34 year old and a 21 year old they deserve all the abuse they can
get!

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Denis

10-10-2003, 12:33 PM

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:45:12 +0000, sunflwrgrl13
<member@british_expats.com> wrote:
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country andcame here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive ornegative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you toadjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering howdifferent our culture is as compared to others. And have you foundyourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation!

I first set foot in the USA in 1977 at the age of 28 and I knew within
days that I had been born in the wrong country. It has taken me 26
years to fulfil my dream of living here and I love it.

I earned a good wage in the UK and paid a small fortune in National
Insurance only to be told when I wanted to see my doctor - "sorry,
there isn't an appointment available for 10 days!" Or having to pay
85% of the cost of a crown at the dentist.

Here I pay far less for my health insurance than I ever paid national
insurance, I get a same day appointment at the doctor, I only have to
pay 15% for the crown at the dentist and I've not seen a sniff of a
waiting list.

Phoenix doesn't appeal to everybody but, after being waterlogged for
50 years I love it here. I sympathise with Kate in Florida, I hated
the heat/humidity combination there but here when it is 100 degrees
with 6% humidity it's perfect for me!

I've been converted to baseball (Go Diamondbacks!) and if I feel the
need to drink English beer and watch Man U on the big screen I can do
that 2 miles away at the George and Dragon.

Life is Good!
--
Denis

If God had wanted us to use the metric system,
Jesus would have had 10 apostles.
-- US Senator Jesse Helms

mrtravel

10-10-2003, 12:58 PM

eiloo wrote: Very true... $15 to just "see" the doc for 15 seconds... quite the pay per hour I must say... but I guess they need to pay for their insurance with all the lawsuits going on too...

You are paying for the skill, not the time.
If it cost $10000 for you to find out you were in the early stages of a
treatable cancer, you would appreciate the doctor took some much time
and money going to medical school, being an intern, and going through
residency, not to mention the other extra training. If you don't like
it, I guess you can always find cheaper medical alternatives :)

mrtravel

10-10-2003, 01:09 PM

Duran wrote:
- The patriotism. Even in "the sticks" of a rural state, it is hard to not find an American flag within a stones throw. The level of patriotism and country pride I have experienced in the USA far outpaces any level of patriotism I have seen or experienced in Canada.

A lot of these "patriots" however are people that equate removing
freedoms as being patriots. I do not want the government knowing about
what books I check out from the library.
- The quality of the medical care. Even though the medical care in Canada is free, from what I have seen and experienced so far, the quality is higher and of a more thorough nature in the USA.

What about the people without the insurance that you have?

- The prices (this may be a local Oklahoma vs Ontario Canada phenomenon). Comparatively, everything in Oklahoma is cheap, cheap, cheap. Housing costs, rent, gas, taxes (of all kinds), insurance, etc, etc, etc, etc are generally much cheaper than where I lived in Canada.

That's an Oklahoma thing.
- The American highway system and design. IE, Interstates, US highways, etc, etc. Cities of the same size in Canada do not have anywhere near as big and well-designed highway systems as here in the USA.

The Interstate system was developed for national defense.

- The support for local sports teams, IE, high school football.

Yes that is regional, especially true in OK and TX.
Remember, it's not like OK has pro teams :)

BAD - - All the Chevy Suburbans / Tahoe's / Other equivalent sized SUV's on the road. My little Honda Accord has trouble seeing around these. And I shutter to think how myself and my Accord would fare in a battle with on of these Chevy's.

The SUV has a higher rate of rollover :)
What I don't get is why the Hummers in this city don't every seem to get
dirty.

- The racism I have experienced in the South. The "N" word is spoken naturally by people around here without even a thought towards it.

What I don't understand is why it is OK for a black person to say the N
word, but not a white one, under the same circumstances. (No, I don't
use the word).
- Calling a country home that a large part of the world hates - for whatever reason that may be.

A lot of countries "like" us.
Look how easy it is for an American to travel to other countries
- The medical bills that keep coming in the mail.

What medical bills?
We just pay the $10 co pay and ignore the bills
- Having a few close people to me go through Identity theft down here in the USA. I am now paranoid about giving my vital information to ANYONE.

DOn't be to paranoid, it is already in a database somewhere....
- Can't find a decent coffee place....STILL after 2 years of trying.

Well, it is Oklahoma :)

Talk about culture.... I went to my first cricket match yesterday.. and
that was in the Silly Valley.

mrtravel

10-10-2003, 01:16 PM

Steffi wrote:
n What I miss though, and I think this has a lot to do with Atlanta (the town where rush hour goes from noon Sunday to Saturday evening, haha), is that you can't walk ANYWHERE. Living in London I didn't have a car and I relied on walking and the tube or buses...and I loved that. And about all other European cities in general. In Atlanta you are lost without a car.

Atlanta has buses, and a "tube"

JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Mrtravel
The Interstate system was developed for national defense.

Was it really? I didn't know that. Then again I guess it was Hitler who
also built the first ever Interstate type road: the Autobahn...and we
all know what he ended up doing.

Originally posted by Mrtravel
Atlanta has buses, and a "tube"

Sure if you want to call MARTA, an "extensive" north-south and east-west
train, something you can actually use to get anywhere...

Yeah, okay then...I dare you to ride them! *L*

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Margaret

10-10-2003, 03:11 PM

I am from Canada and there is not much difference between the two
countries. I did however (as one poster pointed out) doing
comparisons as well. The way certain things in Canada were handled.
After 15 months of being here, I've finally gotten away from doing
that.

One biggest adjustment for me - going to see a doctor here and having
to pay the bill for the visit.

One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge of
Allegiance every morning before class starts.

Lindsey

10-10-2003, 03:35 PM

> One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before class starts.

Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it something some
schools choose to do and some don't?

I really don't want my kids (if I have them - none yet) to have to do that
at school.

Lindsey

JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Lindsey
One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge of
Allegiance every morning before class starts.

Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it something some
schools choose to do and some don't?

I really don't want my kids (if I have them - none yet) to have to do that
at school.

Lindsey

Yes, Lindsey, that is something that children do everyday in school,
until they graduate high school. I could still probably recite it, even
though I haven't spoken the Pledge for years. I'm not sure why it was
started in the first place. Maybe as a way of pounding home allegiance
to the country and our ideals.

Sunny

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mrtravel

10-10-2003, 05:51 PM

Steffi wrote:
Originally posted by MrtravelThe Interstate system was developed for national defense. Was it really? I didn't know that. Then again I guess it was Hitler who also built the first ever Interstate type road: the Autobahn...and we all know what he ended up doing.

Yeah, but we couldn't make our road go to the Middle East

I have ridden Marta to Underground Atlanta about 10 years ago

Jim Battista

10-10-2003, 06:40 PM

"Lindsey" <Lindsey@online-pharmacy-price-guide.com> wrote in
news:bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.scn.rain.com:
One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before class starts. Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it something some schools choose to do and some don't?

Yes and no. It's standard practice at most all public schools.

---BUT--- they can't actually make you do it. When any kids you
might have get to school age, just explain to them what's going to go
on, and that they don't have to do it if they don't want to* *EVEN
IF* the teacher says they do. If the teacher or school adminstrator
gives you crap about it, throw a law book at them. It might make
your life a little simpler to feign a religious objection to it.

*Or, if it's more your thing, that you outright don't want them to
say it.

--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

JohnCindy

10-10-2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Jim Battista
"Lindsey" <Lindsey@online-pharmacy-price-guide.com> wrote in
news:bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.scn.rain.com:"]news:bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.- scn.rain.com:[/url]

One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge
of Allegiance every morning before class starts.

Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it
something some schools choose to do and some don't?

Yes and no. It's standard practice at most all public schools.

---BUT--- they can't actually make you do it. When any kids you
might have get to school age, just explain to them what's going to go
on, and that they don't have to do it if they don't want to* *EVEN
IF* the teacher says they do. If the teacher or school adminstrator
gives you crap about it, throw a law book at them. It might make
your life a little simpler to feign a religious objection to it.

*Or, if it's more your thing, that you outright don't want them to
say it.

--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

Here in Texas they say two pledges. After standing, with hand on heart,
and pledging allegiance to the flag, my two have to pledge allegiance to
the state ("I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one and indivisible"). I
kid you not!

I don't agree with the idea of saying the pledge every morning. Or the
way certain things are taught with an Americanised slant that often
seems to undervalue much of the rest of the world. Seems like
brainwashing to me. But here's the thing.... If you make your kids stand
out by objecting to all that stuff they'll have a hard time adjusting,
IMO. Kids tend to want to be like their peers. I'm a hardened cynic when
it comes to patriotism (of ANY country), but I'm not going to put that
on my kids. They're intelligent little monsters (just got straight As in
their school reports) and I have faith in them that when they're old
enough to think seriously about politics they'll come to some well
thought out conclusions for themselves. Until then I'm happy for them to
go with the flow. They've been here 10 months now and have adjusted much
quicker and better than I have. They feel secure and happy here and I
think that's something to celebrate. So when nine-year-old Joy, who's in
the sign-choir at her school, simultaneously sings and signs "God bless
America, land that I love.." with all the fevency of someone who just
got "saved" I cheer her on. There'll be time enough for us to get down
to political debate one day, but for now I'm just happy she's happy.

Regards

-=-

Scarlett

--
Scarlett Hill

Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Margaret

10-10-2003, 08:29 PM

I don't know if it goes on at all schools. I have no problem with my
son saying it and he doesn't either, I think it shows respect just
like standing for national anthems. Just my opinion.

"Lindsey" <Lindsey@online-pharmacy-price-guide.com> wrote in message news:<bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.scn.rain.com>... One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before class starts. Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it something some schools choose to do and some don't? I really don't want my kids (if I have them - none yet) to have to do that at school. Lindsey

Lindsey

10-11-2003, 02:16 AM

"ScarlettHill" <member@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1007172.1065840496@britishexpats.com... Originally posted by Jim Battista "Lindsey" <Lindsey@online-pharmacy-price-guide.com> wrote in news:bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.scn.rain.com:"]news:bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.- scn.rain.com:[/url]> One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge> of Allegiance every morning before class starts. Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it something some schools choose to do and some don't? Yes and no. It's standard practice at most all public schools. ---BUT--- they can't actually make you do it. When any kids you might have get to school age, just explain to them what's going to go on, and that they don't have to do it if they don't want to* *EVEN IF* the teacher says they do. If the teacher or school adminstrator gives you crap about it, throw a law book at them. It might make your life a little simpler to feign a religious objection to it. *Or, if it's more your thing, that you outright don't want them to say it. -- Jim Battista A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man. Here in Texas they say two pledges. After standing, with hand on heart, and pledging allegiance to the flag, my two have to pledge allegiance to the state ("I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one and indivisible"). I kid you not! I don't agree with the idea of saying the pledge every morning. Or the way certain things are taught with an Americanised slant that often seems to undervalue much of the rest of the world. Seems like brainwashing to me. But here's the thing.... If you make your kids stand out by objecting to all that stuff they'll have a hard time adjusting, IMO. Kids tend to want to be like their peers. I'm a hardened cynic when it comes to patriotism (of ANY country), but I'm not going to put that on my kids. They're intelligent little monsters (just got straight As in their school reports) and I have faith in them that when they're old enough to think seriously about politics they'll come to some well thought out conclusions for themselves. Until then I'm happy for them to go with the flow. They've been here 10 months now and have adjusted much quicker and better than I have. They feel secure and happy here and I think that's something to celebrate. So when nine-year-old Joy, who's in the sign-choir at her school, simultaneously sings and signs "God bless America, land that I love.." with all the fevency of someone who just got "saved" I cheer her on. There'll be time enough for us to get down to political debate one day, but for now I'm just happy she's happy. Regards -=- Scarlett -- Scarlett Hill Posted via http://britishexpats.com

I agree that I wouldn't want to make my kids stand out from everyone else
and I hope that they would be as intelligent as yours sound!

I'd rather choose a school for them where they didn't have to do it at all -
if they exist! If not, then I guess they would have to do it even though
its something I really don't agree with.

Lindsey

Lindsey

10-11-2003, 02:23 AM

I always stand for national anthems - my own and other countries' but they
only tend to get played on special occasions.

Getting 5 year old kids to pledge allegiance to the country and flag every
morning at school is just going a bit far for me personally. You equally
wouldn't find me driving about with a flag stuck to my car or with a 20 ft
flag pole on my front lawn.

I am quite a patriotic person in general but I think in some case it can go
a bit far.

"Margaret" <mlindsay33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f51bd102.0310101929.1ad8ed95@posting.google.c om... I don't know if it goes on at all schools. I have no problem with my son saying it and he doesn't either, I think it shows respect just like standing for national anthems. Just my opinion. "Lindsey" <Lindsey@online-pharmacy-price-guide.com> wrote in message
news:<bm7c7i$gmm$1@quark.scn.rain.com>... One biggest adjustment for my son - having to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before class starts. Is that something kids have to do in all schools or is it something some schools choose to do and some don't? I really don't want my kids (if I have them - none yet) to have to do
that at school. Lindsey

JohnCindy

10-11-2003, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by ScarlettHill
Here in Texas they say two pledges. After standing, with hand on heart, and pledging allegiance to the flag, my two have to pledge allegiance to the state ("I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one and indivisible"). I kid you not!

I don't agree with the idea of saying the pledge every morning. Or the way certain things are taught with an Americanised slant that often seems to undervalue much of the rest of the world. Seems like brainwashing to me. But here's the thing.... If you make your kids stand out by objecting to all that stuff they'll have a hard time adjusting, IMO. Kids tend to want to be like their peers. I'm a hardened cynic when it comes to patriotism (of ANY country), but I'm not going to put that on my kids. They're intelligent little monsters (just got straight As in their school reports) and I have faith in them that when they're old enough to think seriously about politics they'll come to some well thought out conclusions for themselves. Until then I'm happy for them to go with the flow. They've been here 10 months now and have adjusted much quicker and better than I have. They feel secure and happy here and I think that's something to celebrate. So when nine-year-old Joy, who's in the sign-choir at her school, simultaneously sings and signs "God bless America, land that I love.." with all the fevency of someone who just got "saved" I cheer her on. There'll be time enough for us to get down to political debate one day, but for now I'm just happy she's happy.

Regards
-=-
Scarlett

Scarlett,

We really think a like on this one. :)

I grew up in Texas and said the pledge of allegiance until high school.
My high school didn't do it. It was a pretty tough school though, and
I guess they had bigger concerns than making us say the pledge of
allegiance. Like knives (mine was the time before guns in schools, but
we did have a hunting club and they had guns, but I digress), drugs,
pregnancies, drop outs, and the list goes on. The funny thing was that
once every blue moon the principal would get on the loud speaker and
say it himself. It always surprised the hell out of us. He was a
little bit eccentric. But we had an excellent Dean of Girls and Dean
of Boys, both of who helped shape my future and I still feel their
influence today.

Anyway, saying the pledge of allegiance did not shape my political
beliefs one bit. It was the people that took the time with me, and the
educators who were good at what they did, coupled with of course the
influence of all the people in my environment and my own curious mind.

I don't know whether our kids should be saying the pledge of allegiance
in school or not. Probably not. But making your child not say it is
going to be a lot more damaging to their overall psyche in the long run.

My two cents.

Leslie

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Jim Battista

10-11-2003, 07:49 AM

"Lindsey" <Lindsey@online-pharmacy-price-guide.com> wrote in
news:bm8hoi$85g$1@quark.scn.rain.com:
I'd rather choose a school for them where they didn't have to do it at all - if they exist! If not, then I guess they would have to do it even though its something I really don't agree with.

Some private schools won't. But they're likely to be either very
expensive or very religious.

--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

JohnCindy

10-12-2003, 01:39 PM

Being married the last five years to a Canadian, I would have to
disagree. My Canadian finds a world of difference between the US and
Canada. Politics being one. Medical costs and care another. Driving
and parking issues yet two more. Our court systems and the election of
many types of judges.

On the surface it might appear to be very similar and the saying as
Gasherjohn mentioned "two countries separated by a common language" is
very true. While I find that Canadian English is very similar to the US
version of English and little if any accent involved, there are quite a
few differences in the definitions of certain phrases. I find the UK
version of English vastly difference from either US or Canadian English
and the accent of the UK's many areas adding to my difficulty in
understanding the speech.

This New Yorker tends to speak in abbreviated sentences. And I wrote
that way as well. My Canadian spouse speaks in long worded sentences
and tends to elaborate, IMHO, unnecessarily.

After five years, he has ajusted somewhat but I fear he will never be
Americanized enough to be 100 percent comfortable in the country he now
considers his.

Rete

Originally posted by Alex
Being Canadian there is not much. For me it would be the medical care.
Not being able to just go and see a doc when you need to, but instead
having to worry about having enough money to do it. I am enjoying the
warmer winters but not the humidity in the summer. But I guess the
biggest bummer for me is the loss of $350 to $650 (per month) of my
Canadian disability to the exchange rate.

Alexj

sunflwrgrl13 wrote:
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and
came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or
negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you to
adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering how
different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found
yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation!

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpats.-
com[/url]

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-13-2003, 04:49 AM

I live in Atlanta and probably the biggest thing my Irish partner
dislikes about this area is the weather. Another dislike is the lack of
sidewalks in the suburbs.

He still can't figure out a four way stop, but is completely amazed at
how we all seem to just know, which car goes first.

Originally posted by Scout
I queried Pete on this one.

Positive -

1. Key Lime Pie
2. The China Buffet Restaurant
3. Most of the people he's met
4. The weather
5. Baby Back Ribs
6. Cheap Cigarettes
7. We are only staying here a few years and then we semi-retire
to Spain.

Negative -

1. The bugs
2. The Weathermen
3. Healthcare - paying for it
4. Customer Sevice sucks - go to any Home Depot or
phone any call center for an example
5. The Government sucks - BCIS, IRS, DMV, etc. - no one
has a clue as to what they are doing
6. 'News' - it wouldn't qualify as News anywhere else

Cheers,

Leslie

PS - Mr Travel................as a native Atlantan I can tesify that
Marta is not a means to go without a car. As Steffi pointed out it
only goes in 4 directions. Atlanta is spread out over 100's of square
miles and about 13 counties. Marta services 2 (count em) counties. It
is not an alternative to driving a car. When you compare it to the
Tube in London or the Metro in Paris it is woefully lacking.

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-13-2003, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by Andy Platt
"girlyflyer" <member@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:1006599.1065811103@britishexpats.com"]news:1006599.1065811- 103@britishexpats.com[/url]...
Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country
and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or
negative) that you have come across? How hard or easy was it for you
to adjust to the American culture and lifestyle? I'm just wondering
how different our culture is as compared to others. And have you found
yourselves starting to become "Americanized"? ;-)

Hope this proves an interesting topic of conversation!
This isn't a huge adjustment, but I know it drives David crazy everytime
he gets carded for a drink. He's well above the drinking age and when
they ask I can almost see the steam coming out of his ears. Obviously,
if that's our biggest problem, we're doing okay ;), but wanted to see if
it bothered anybody else!

That used to drive me mad too. After a while I just started laughing at
them. It's only happened once since I've had my daughter. She was about 1 at
the time and I said, "Who are you carding, me or her?". The person was
puzzled. "Well, I said - she looks closer to 21 than I do and you have a
sign right there that says you only card below 30 so that can't be me".

Yes, if people are going to be so stupid they can't tell the difference
between a 34 year old and a 21 year old they deserve all the abuse they can
get!

Andy.

Well Cher...down on the bayou , if you are tall enough to slide the money on th bar you get your drink...

--

I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-13-2003, 06:01 AM

II'd rather choose a school for them where they didn't have to do
it at all -

if they exist! If not, then I guess they would have to do it
even though

its something I really don't agree with.

Lindsey

There is a school in our area that is taking on the DOE over the issue.
They are scheduling a time for the pledge, but not making it mandatory
that all students come to say it. The school is based on a
democratic/Sudbury model, and there are Sudbury schools in many areas.
If you can find the site for the original Sudbury Valley School in Mass,
they should have links to see if there is a school available in your
area. Fascinating reading in any case, it's been a while since I
checked it out.

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-14-2003, 08:39 AM

Nu unnnh! We let Canadians in to play the World Series occaisionally ;-
).............We did have World Cup Soccer on tv too, live and taped. I
distinctly remember it because Pete scared the bejeebers out of me when
he woke me up stark nekkid screaming at the TV at 5 am one morning when
England scored.

I think that Dish Network is offering the Rugby games on PayPerView, but
at a premium price. I know the entire soccer season was offered at
something like $279 which was outrageous if you ask me.

Cheers,

Leslie

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-14-2003, 08:43 AM

The US is def. arrogant in sports (as well as everything else). That
being said, the World Series is the best in the world. The best players
play in the US. No other club team (cuba, japan, whatever) could
compete in major league baseball.

Same with basketball. So those two are really the world championships.
And of course, American football!

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-14-2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Scout
Nu unnnh! We let Canadians in to play the World Series occaisionally ;-).............We did have World Cup Soccer on tv too, live and taped. I distinctly remember it because Pete scared the bejeebers out of me when he woke me up stark nekkid screaming at the TV at 5 am one morning when England scored.

I think that Dish Network is offering the Rugby games on PayPerView, but at a premium price. I know the entire soccer season was offered at something like $279 which was outrageous if you ask me.

Cheers,

Leslie

I was thinking it was Dish Network that lets you customize. I'm not too
much for television so I'm not sure, but I have friends that have the
most bizarre assortment of channels and I know they get all the rugby
games. I just don't know what they pay.

Leslie

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

squire

10-16-2003, 04:22 AM

In article <9h1eovk6l46eqba73k05ciug2r5tuf29e0@4ax.com>, Denis
<nospamplease@arizona.com> writesI earned a good wage in the UK and paid a small fortune in NationalInsurance only to be told when I wanted to see my doctor - "sorry,there isn't an appointment available for 10 days!" Or having to pay85% of the cost of a crown at the dentist.Here I pay far less for my health insurance than I ever paid nationalinsurance, I get a same day appointment at the doctor, I only have topay 15% for the crown at the dentist and I've not seen a sniff of awaiting list.

Just to pick up on the costs factor only, you really aren't comparing
apples with apples - and this is a very common misconception. Until the
UK Chancellor's budget of 2002 very little of the National Insurance
contributions were for the benefit of the National Health Service. This
was generally regarded as some sleight of hand so that he could maintain
that he had not increased taxation!

<http://www.gad.gov.uk/publications/docs/2003uprating.pdf>

In the maze of actuarial figures available from the above site the vast
bulk of National Insurance contributions (up to 2002) were to fund such
things as - retirement pensions, incapacity benefits and pensions,
widows benefits and pensions, jobseekers allowances, maternity/paternity
allowances, redundancy payments and senior citizens Xmas bonuses.

The National Insurance fund was set up in 1911 - some 37 years prior to
the National Health Service.

--
squire
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. (Groucho)

JohnCindy

10-16-2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by DCMark
The US is def. arrogant in sports (as well as everything else). That being said, the World Series is the best in the world. The best players play in the US. No other club team (cuba, japan, whatever) could compete in major league baseball.

Same with basketball. So those two are really the world championships. And of course, American football!

I don't know about that- if the Cuban National team were allowed to
compete against US/Canadian Baseball teams I imagine they would be quite
competitive. "El Duque" Hernandez was competetive here at age 40+, well
after he was "washed up" in Cuba. If you watch US baseball, I would
hazard a guess that at least 50% of the players are from Latin America.

I for one would love to see a truely "World" Series- with the best
Japanese, Cuban, Dominican, Mexican, and other international teams
competing. The problem would likely be that unlike World Cup soccer,
where the best players play on their National teams, American teams
would always be able to attract the best international players with the
high salarys here.

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-16-2003, 07:46 AM

I said club teams. There is absolutely ZERO history of national teams
playing baseball. Baseball is about the club teams, dating back to the
1800s in the US.

No club team in Japan or Cuba could compete, hands down.

Originally posted by ironporer
I don't know about that- if the Cuban National team were allowed to compete against US/Canadian Baseball teams I imagine they would be quite competitive. "El Duque" Hernandez was competetive here at age 40+, well after he was "washed up" in Cuba. If you watch US baseball, I would hazard a guess that at least 50% of the players are from Latin America.

I for one would love to see a truely "World" Series- with the best
Japanese, Cuban, Dominican, Mexican, and other international teams
competing. The problem would likely be that unlike World Cup soccer,
where the best players play on their National teams, American teams
would always be able to attract the best international players with the
high salarys here.

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JohnCindy

10-16-2003, 08:12 AM

Love the climate here in Maryland, all four seasons which is a change
over one long grey one in the UK. I have concluded that Maryland is a
carbon copy of Devon, well the countryside anyway. I have decided to
ignore the hates and accept them as being part of my life now with one
exception:

How the hell on this earth can anyone call themselves the 'World
Champions' in their respective sport, without playing the rest of the
world ? Baltimore Blast indoor soccer for one.

Rob

--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Denis

10-16-2003, 09:42 AM

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:22:14 +0100, squire <squireb@[127.0.0.1]>
wrote:
Just to pick up on the costs factor only, you really aren't comparingapples with apples - and this is a very common misconception. Until theUK Chancellor's budget of 2002 very little of the National Insurancecontributions were for the benefit of the National Health Service. Thiswas generally regarded as some sleight of hand so that he could maintainthat he had not increased taxation!<http://www.gad.gov.uk/publications/docs/2003uprating.pdf>In the maze of actuarial figures available from the above site the vastbulk of National Insurance contributions (up to 2002) were to fund suchthings as - retirement pensions, incapacity benefits and pensions,widows benefits and pensions, jobseekers allowances, maternity/paternityallowances, redundancy payments and senior citizens Xmas bonuses.The National Insurance fund was set up in 1911 - some 37 years prior tothe National Health Service.

Hi squire,

I'm not going to argue with you at all, I knew I wasn't comparing
apples with apples but the bottom line is that I am paying less over
here and getting better service.

I'm still paying UK income tax on my company pension but I've applied
to have that changed too. I used to be well into the 40% tax bracket
in the UK and I resent every single penny that I have to pay to the UK
government.

--
Denis

When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong
lane.

Andy Platt

10-16-2003, 10:07 AM

"Denis" <nospamplease@arizona.com> wrote:
I earned a good wage in the UK and paid a small fortune in National Insurance only to be told when I wanted to see my doctor - "sorry, there isn't an appointment available for 10 days!" Or having to pay 85% of the cost of a crown at the dentist. Here I pay far less for my health insurance than I ever paid national insurance, I get a same day appointment at the doctor, I only have to pay 15% for the crown at the dentist and I've not seen a sniff of a waiting list.
Interesting timing: A recent survey has revealed that, on average, the US
spends $4,887 per person on healthcare (13.49% of it's GDP) versus just
under $2000 for the UK (7.6% of GDP). Of course most of the US expenditure
is on private and most of the UK's on public.

In the UK where my company paid for private coverage which was superior to
the private coverage in the US (a private hospital in the UK is like a
hotel; a private hospital in the US is like, well, a hospital). It's
difficult to compare overall taxation because, in general, you pay a lot
more taxes in the US though for lesser amounts (e.g. the federal government
wants it's share, the state it's share, perhaps even a local city tax, etc).
I know I'm much better off in the US with taxes because we still have
mortgage interest deduction - before that, though, my taxes were not out of
line with what I had paid in the UK. And if you consider the amount of money
my company pays for my health insurance it's enormous.

My company doesn't provide dental coverage because they don't believe it's
cost effective - instead they reimburse for actual costs. When you look at
the actual bill for a crown it's pretty scary!

Bottom line for me is that I could live either place.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Marjeta

10-16-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by sunflwrgrl13
Out of curiousity, for those of you who have left your home country and came here to the US, what are the biggest differences (positive or negative) that you have come across?

Coming from Europe, the biggest adjustment for me was being away from my
family whom I am very close to. Other things you just get used to - it
is only a matter of time, but you always miss your family and your
original home (in my case anway).

As for cultural differences - it was really minor things for me.

Like getting used to shopping for groceries when not knowing most of the
products... The mall being the center of all events and the place to
hang out... Spending and consuming being the main charge in most
people's lifes... Architecture fascinates me - the speed (and often
inacurracy) in which houses are made... The guy's obsession with the
size of their ehm... vehicles (BIG trucks)... ;) Driving insanely large
distances... Difficulty in making friends - I have found (most)
Americans being more individualistic so it is harder to keep genuine
friendships... Getting used to the overdone friendliness in restaurants
(it felt kinda awkward at first :) )... Religion being a publicly
displayed and advertised product as opposed to an inner and private
choice... People's tendency to not cook and eat at home... The amount of
addictive reality shows on TV... Cheap gas prices :D ... People
generally put a lot more importance on their career and working hard for
their money than on little life's enjoynments... The big difference
between poor, abandoned and sad areas in urban cities and those rich and
safe ones... The diversity of races was also something I wasn't used
to... Young people seem to get bored so easily, and I have never seen as
many spoiled kids getting whatever they want... The geography itself and
the weather can be very different, depending on where you live and where
you come from... And getting face to face with the culture of fear was
one of the hardest parts.

In all it is a bunch of very interesting things that I sort of embraced
and am still fascinated by every day. As a person I was sculpted in a
different environment which will stick with me always - but in some
instances I am very much getting americanized. I watch more movies and
don't hang out at coffeeshops in the afternoons as much. :)

When I came here it was the first time I EVER tried peanut butter, sweet
corn, gravy, maple syrup and a bunch of other things (most of which I
still don't like BTW, even though people tell me I'm weird ;) )

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