I've read in a couple of threads where folks talk about employers being
willing or not to take on an employee before their EAD is in their
hands. Does this mean it is possible to work if you've applied for your
EAD but don't yet have it your hands? I was under the impress you had
to wait until you had everything, e.g., EAD, SSN, etc...before you
filled out a single employment application.



My husband and I have a friend here who owns his own business and,
frankly, could use some help. Is it possible for him to hire my husband
(or anyone else for that matter) if the EAD is pending?



It's not critical that he work immediately when he arrives but I know
he'd be thrilled if he could.



Just curious.



Patty


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Originally posted by Khadija
I've read in a couple of threads where folks talk about employers being willing or not to take on an employee before their EAD is in their hands. Does this mean it is possible to work if you've applied for your EAD but don't yet have it your hands? I was under the impress you had to wait until you had everything, e.g., EAD, SSN, etc...before you filled out a single employment application.

My husband and I have a friend here who owns his own business and, frankly, could use some help. Is it possible for him to hire my husband (or anyone else for that matter) if the EAD is pending?

It's not critical that he work immediately when he arrives but I know he'd be thrilled if he could.

Just curious.

Patty





Patty,

I was thinking that it wasn't the EAD that had been the subject of
going ahead and working without, but the SSN. That the actual working
could be done without an SSN in hand (as long as it was applied
for!!!), but that it was at the discretion of the employer whether
they wanted to go about things that way. However you can't get an SSN
without an EAD so.......................


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Posted via http://britishexpats.com

I don't know if it will help but some of this was discussed in this
thread from a few days ago:

]http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16-
7398[/url]


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Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Originally posted by cindyabs
Patty,
I was thinking that it wasn't the EAD that had been the subject of going ahead and working without, but the SSN. That the actual working could be done without an SSN in hand (as long as it was applied for!!!), but that it was at the discretion of the employer whether they wanted to go about things that way. However you can't get an SSN without an EAD so.......................

That's what I thought. In the too good to be true category. Oh well,
it's not like we won't use the 3 months productively. He has to improve
his English and learn how to get around Milwaukee. Milwaukee is quite a
bit different than Cairo!


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Posted via http://britishexpats.com

I believe thats the standard card - you need the EAD to use the SSN - that
or the stamp you can get if you 1) choose the right POE (JFK seems the
favourite and despite the distance to West Virginia, thats where I plan to
enter) and 2) Get the stamp at all - it apparently can come down to how good
a mood the Immigration Offical you deal with is in.

Way I figure it, 2 10 hour drives have to be worth being able to work
sooner, right? :)

Colin
"Gasherjohn" <member10603@britishexpats.com> wrote in message
news:889215.1059406199@britishexpats.com... Originally posted by cindyabs However you can't get an SSN without an EAD so....................... That's not correct Cindy. I got my card before EAD but I think occasionally you can meet a difficult person in the SS Office who will not issue the card. However my card said that it was not valid for employment without INS authorisation so it wasn't much use to show a potential employer! -- Posted via http://britishexpats.com

DominicMelo wrote:
Section 2 of the I-9 form clearly states that if the employee cannot produce documentation (e.g. EAD) then a copy of the receipt of application for the document must be provided within 3 days of starting a job and the actual document within 90 days of starting.

Hi All,

The 90 days only applies to people that already have authorization to work,
but lack a work authorization document, i.e. U.S. citizen without SSN card,
alien that has lost EAD. Doesn't apply to people waiting for the initial
EAD application to be approved.


Take care,


Mike :)

Originally posted by Michael D. Young

The 90 days only applies to people that already have authorization to work,
but lack a work authorization document, i.e. U.S. citizen without SSN card,
alien that has lost EAD. Doesn't apply to people waiting for the initial
EAD application to be approved.




Are you sure? There seems to be some differences of opinion about this
and recent posts (and my own research) have given me to understand that
a K-1 holder is entitled to work by virtue of the K-1 visa but has to
apply for the EAD just to obtain the required documentation (or, at the
very least, confirmation that they have applied for this).



In a sense what you are saying follows that interpretation, that the 90
days referred to on the I-9 applies to people that already have
authorization to work but lack a work authorization document, which
seems to cover K-1 visa holders.


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Gasherjohn wrote:
Originally posted by Michael D. Young The 90 days only applies to people that already have authorization to work, but lack a work authorization document, i.e. U.S. citizen without SSN card, alien that has lost EAD. Doesn't apply to people waiting for the initial EAD application to be approved. Are you sure? There seems to be some differences of opinion about this and recent posts (and my own research) have given me to understand that a K-1 holder is entitled to work by virtue of the K-1 visa but has to apply for the EAD just to obtain the required documentation (or, at the very least, confirmation that they have applied for this). In a sense what you are saying follows that interpretation, that the 90 days referred to on the I-9 applies to people that already have authorization to work but lack a work authorization document, which seems to cover K-1 visa holders.

Hi All,


I was just talking in general about the 90 days not applying to people
waiting for their initial EAD. This is what I was sent by the then INS
Business Liaison office when I asked about a K-1's authorization to
work. Based on this K-1s are work authorized based on status, but when
does that status end?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wherever there is a discrepancy between the requirements of the law and
likelihood of discovery or penalties, the public makes risk analysis and
proceeds accordingly. The term technically means required by law.

Citation to the US Code of Federal Regulations would require a depth
step-by-step analysis in order to provide explanation of how all of the
provisions implicated by this question interrelate.

In general, however, the progression is as follows:

1. K-1 classification may last no longer than 90 days

2. K-1 classification is for fiance(e)s of US citizens only.

3. As soon as a K-1 alien marries, he/she is no longer a fiance(e).

4. K-1 aliens are work authorized incident to status, per 8
CFR274a.12(a)(6)

5. K-1 work authorization may last no longer than the status lasts,
whether the documentation issued to the K-1 alien has expired or not

6. An employment authorization document is required under 274a.12(a)(6) to
K-1 aliens, although INS General Counsel takes the position that 274a.12(a)
aliens (unlike 274a.12(c) aliens, for example) are work authorized incident
to status, i.e. upon INS issued proof of status. However, the public has
not been formally advised of this interpretation.

7. Some K-1 aliens who are unaware of this interpretation apply for EAD's
at INS Service Centers, where the processing period of 90 days essentially
eviscerates the work authorization and the document may arrive after the
fiance(s)'s status has already changed to spouse. Some K-1 aliens are
issued EAD's at INS field offices. Some are issued Forms I-94 stamped
"employment authorized." This varies from area to area within the US.

8. An EAD is automatically invalidated if the status which entitled the
alien to the employment authorization ceases, whether or not the EAD has
expired.

I think there are a lot of grounds for flexibility on this Dominic, the
handbook to help the employers with the I-9 says the employee must
present a receipt that he or she has applied for the document within 90
days and that the employee should have indicated that he or she is
eligible to be employed.



The required document which you gave a receipt of application for
was an unexpired I688B which is the EAD right? That document is in
List A on the I-9 so it's just a matter of whether a K-1 who has
married is authorized to work incident to status which seems to be
somewhat unclear!



Since I can't work yet I may do more research on this. The more I can
give to an employer the better and my research may impress them and help
me get the job. Who knows!


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I believe a poster about 2-3 months ago (was it Pete?) worked really
hard to get to the bottom of this K-1 work conundrum and confirmed that
the "receipt" is acceptable I-9 evidence in only two situations:



a) You previously had an EAD and lost it and the receipt is for the
replacement card



b) You previously had an EAD and it has expired, and the receipt is for
the renewal.



(If I am misremembering the post someone correct me, please).



The receipt is not acceptable evidence, however, if you've never been
issued an EAD at all. Which is the case with a stamp on K-1 entry. You
get a work authorized stamp, but that's not the same thing as an EAD.
The EAD is the cute document with your picture on it that you file the
I-765 for. The one that most K-1's won't have in hand until after their
status has changed (whether because they married and are no longer K-1,
or because they are at day 91+), now that walk-in applications aren't
allowed in most urban offices and the mail-in process can take months.



The good news is that folks have reported a couple of mitigating things
on the NG: First it is the employer, not the employee, who suffers the
sanction if they accept a document they aren't supposed to, and BCIS has
seemed not to pay too much mind on AOS where a K-1 has technically
worked without authorization. Second, at least some people have had
lucked into understanding employers who did not promptly fire them when
their status changed, but were willing to take a chance knowing that the
initial EAD had been applied for and would be forthcoming.



This whole area of immigration is a huge mess -- made worse now with
timing problems created by the SSA verification process -- and I've
vented about it in the NG before. I personally despise the government
saying that someone is entitled to something, while creating an
administrative system that effectively strips away the so-called
entitlement.


--
Dekka's Angel


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

To throw something else in the mix - what are the rules pertaining to
AOS applicants who are now in catagory c9 (adjustment applicant) status.



They aren't K-1er's anymore but they are allowed to work with an ead.
Say they applied for the first ead as a K-1 and received it and are now
adjustment applicants applying for an ead. Isn't that considered a
renewal of an ead?? Would it follow that the receipt for that EAD falls
under the I-9 guidelines or would it be a case of



You're allowed to work

-You're not allowed to work

You're allowed to work again



-Dominic


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Posted via http://britishexpats.com

The attachment in the link I just gave is even more interesting. You can
go straight to the attachment in this link:

]http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/lawsregs/handbook/AsylumOGC061-
702.pdf[/url]



John


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What is the basis of your opinion?


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Originally posted by DominicMelo
What is the basis of your opinion?



I had the same question that you did regarding this issue and could not
get a definitive answer.



In order to clear it up I contacted my Congress liaison unit and they
contacted the BCIS, the resulting answer was that it was not considered
a renewal and you could not work without the card, nor did you comply
with the scenario detailed in the I-9 regarding the production of the
card within 90 days.



Rob


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Posted via http://britishexpats.com

My husband got his 90 day card when he first came, because he came in
2000 and before all the changes. His employer preferred that he
continue to work without the document proving his work authorization,
rather than give him the time off to go get the renewed documentation.
It really all depends on how much risk the employer is comfortable with.
It was not a permanent job, but they had so much work at the time that
they didn't worry so much about the paperwork. We never misled them
and did bring the 1 year EAD back to them when he got it, so at least
they had it after the fact. Doesn't hurt to try if you know someone
who really needs help.


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Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Originally posted by DominicMelo
To throw something else in the mix - what are the rules pertaining to AOS applicants who are now in catagory c9 (adjustment applicant) status.

They aren't K-1er's anymore but they are allowed to work with an ead. Say they applied for the first ead as a K-1 and received it and are now adjustment applicants applying for an ead. Isn't that considered a renewal of an ead?? Would it follow that the receipt for that EAD falls under the I-9 guidelines or would it be a case of

You're allowed to work
-You're not allowed to work
You're allowed to work again

-Dominic

It sounds like you answered your own question.



If you applied for an EAD under K-1 status, you would be applying under
category (a)(6). If you then apply for an EAD on the basis of your
application for AoS, you would then fall under category (c)(9). This
would not count as a renewal because it is the first time you have
applied with your new status under category (c)(9).



EADs that are issued on the basis of a pending application for AoS are
valid for one year, and now with AoS applicants summarily being told it
will take 365-540 days to come to a decision on the green card, the
replacement EAD becomes more of an issue than it might have been with
quicker processing times.



By the way, I was just drawn to your message because I am currently
looking at the situation where I may have to quit my job at the end of
August (that I accepted on the basis of my K-1 status, showing an JFK
"Employment Authorized" I-94 as proof for the I-9) while my AoS-related
EAD is being processed. I was told on my first NOA that it could take
up to 80 days, which potentially puts me out of work until September
30th, although of course it could be theoretically much longer or could
be denied.



CLEM


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