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Connie
08-05-2004, 04:53 PM
California. Is it legal for company to deduct 15 minutes before and after work: let say my schedule is fr 8AM-5PM. I clock in at 7:52AM and 5:08PM. Are they allowed not to pay my 15 minutes before 8AM and 15 mins after 5PM even though the company policy states not to punch in or out 15 mins before or after the sheduled time?

Please let me know. thanks.

LConnell
08-05-2004, 05:16 PM
Theoretically, every minute should be counted. However, a small amount of rounding is permitted, so long as it doesn't adversely affect the employee on an on-going basis.

In my experience, 15 minutes is far too much rounding. Your employer may be out of compliance.

Sue
08-05-2004, 06:02 PM
California. Is it legal for company to deduct 15 minutes before and after work: let say my schedule is fr 8AM-5PM. I clock in at 7:52AM and 5:08PM. Are they allowed not to pay my 15 minutes before 8AM and 15 mins after 5PM even though the company policy states not to punch in or out 15 mins before or after the sheduled time?

Please let me know. thanks.

What are you actual work hours, and did you get authorization to clock in early and clock out late, bascally for self-induced overtime, the employer might see that as. I would ask for employee handbook. I know that chronos and other time keeping methods do round and you need a certain amt. of minutes to go to the next 15 minute increment.

Connie
08-06-2004, 09:45 AM
8 hr shedule everyday. The company does have time tracking device where we punch in or out. There is a schedule for me from 8AM to 5PM. Because of the shedule is set on that device, if I clock in before my schedule, it won't pay the 15 mins before or after. The schedule is set by my manager. I do not get the approval of 15 mins to come in early or stay late.

Connie
08-06-2004, 09:46 AM
Theoretically, every minute should be counted. However, a small amount of rounding is permitted, so long as it doesn't adversely affect the employee on an on-going basis.

In my experience, 15 minutes is far too much rounding. Your employer may be out of compliance.


What is a small amount of rounding is okay?

LConnell
08-06-2004, 10:07 AM
Technically, DOL regulations state that all minutes must be counted. However, in practice, small amounts of rounding are acceptable...that is called the "De Minimus" Rule. 15 minutes is not considered "de minimus" and it must be paid.

Sometimes, however, your employer may permit you to clock in prior to your starting time, so as not to have a line at the timeclock. If your employer can prove that you did not work until your scheduled time, regardless of clocking in early, it may be in compliance. (That is because waiting time...time waiting to clock in and out...is not considered as paid work time, under the law.)

In answer to your question, the acceptable amount of rounding is a little unclear. 15 minutes may be acceptable IF there is an industry practice of doing so. Absent the industry practice, 10 minutes is not considered de minimus. The law is very vague on this issue. If your employer was audited, the Wage and Hour Department would look at practices, if employees are being harmed by the practice (such as requiring work as soon as someone clocks in), etc.

I know that this is confusing so please let me know if I can answer additional questions for you.

Hope
03-29-2006, 10:31 AM
could use help here, I work afternoons 4:30 to 12:30 our boss told us if we clock in befor 4:15 or clock out 12:29 we will be docked 15 mins. each time so if we clock in at 4:14 we get docked 15 mins and if we docked out at 12:29 again 15 mins thats 1/2 hr we lose. but they want us on our lines at 4:30 and working but we cant do that if we cant clock in untill 4:30 , and if we lose are time card they make us pay 50$ for another 1 and there not new they are used cards we get. and our breaks are 6pm/8pm/10pm. and now our boss stands by the washrooms and lunch room to make sure no 1 leaves befor 12:30 we were told if you have to go to the washroom you do if on your break. now 10pm is a long time for 12:30 for some to hold it that long.and the rules change when ever they want them to the book they gave to us when we started they dont follow it.
we have guys that drive forklifts that should not be driving.some of us are scard when we go on the line to work because now we were told if we send down a bad part to the next line worker and it passes the tester we get worte up if it happens the 2nd time we could lose are jobs.some are just started and they were told dont matter they want there numbers out we have to make 1500 to 2000 a night now on a good day it cant be done. with workers that been there for years. and they want new works to hit the same numbers .its like worker in the army we have a dillsergeant walking the lines telling us to chop chop.and we get paid every 2 weeks now some of us have lost 15 to 30 hrs on our pays.but we worked 80 hrs. when we tell them we are short. they fix it and tell use it will be on our next pay. wow more tax takin off this happens every payday with about 6 to 10 or more employees.
if the boss dont like you they fine a way to lay you off we just had a lay off and 1 lady they didnt care for got lay off and they keep the new one they hired 5days befor the layoff. NO ONE WILL SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF LOSEING THERE JOBS.I SAID SOMTHING ONE DAY AND I GOT BLACKED BALL and there is no room in the lunchroom and some of us sit on the floor to eat THAT IS SO WRONG.the boss can sit in her office to eat but we sit on a floor in there are no tables left ,,,,,i dont know how to get help to let some know what they are getting away with .when i said you cant do this i was told yes i can im the boss.i know im all over the floor on this sorry. need to get it out to some one that may be able help .i wish i could phone someone and let them know how bad its got and what they are getting away with.PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN. THANK YOU

Pattymd
03-29-2006, 12:24 PM
Man, my eyes went buggy reading that, or trying to.

Let's do the easy one first. When you talk about losing your "time card", I take it you really mean your badge that you use to swipe in and out. The company can charge you for another one if you lose it. Whether they can deduct it from your paycheck or not will depend on your state and whether or not you gave your written authorization for them to do so.

Generally speaking, any preparation time you are required to work to be ready to start work at your work station at 4:30 is compensable time. Same with any cleaning up time at the end of your shift.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_785/29CFR785.24.htm

And you must be paid for all time worked, although the FLSA does allow for rounding to the nearest 15-minute interval but no more.

Regarding restroom breaks, all OSHA requires is that you have "sufficient" time to use the restroom. It is not a violation of law for the employer to require that you do so on your breaks. If you need to go at another time, the employer may require that you notify your supervisor before hand. Best thing to do, however, is to not drink anything on your 10:00 break.

The employer is entitled to change workplace standards as they see fit. An employee handbook is not a binding contract, which must be adhered to in perpetuity.

If you believe that you have been underpaid, you are free to file a claim with your state Dept. of Labor and let them investigate. That's their job.

Everything else you mention may be an uncomfortable work environment, but none of it is illegal. If you are that unhappy with your job and the company, maybe it's time to look for another one.

maggied
03-29-2006, 01:28 PM
Hope, what state do you work in? How many employees are there at your company? You may have an excellent claim for 2 years of back wages through the Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division. Rounding can only be done when sometimes it helps the worker and sometimes it hurts. Never can they "dock" you time because of when you clocked it - that would mean paying you for less than the time you worked. Additionally, as the other post noted, prep time is paid. You and your coworkers should start to keep track of when you clock in, when you work, etc. This will help with a claim for unpaid wages. I'm pretty sure you can file anonymously on behalf of all workers to get a claim started.

By the way, the law saying you have to be paid for all the time you work also says that you can't be discriminated against for filing a complaint.

Also, some states have specific rules about breaks and break rooms.
Why should you have to leave a job? You can work to make it better for everyone!

You are welcome to email me, I don't check this thread often. Click on my name and you can email me through this site. Good luck!!

jae
04-11-2006, 03:56 AM
im a part time employee and us "new employees" at my work have a paper sign in/out sheet. the sign in/out sheet is constantly being moved around so i dont get the chance to sign in in the morning, unless i look for the managers, so i decided to sign in when i sign out. but when its time to sign out i cant find the manager with the sign in sheet(its a big store and its hard to keep track of all the managers) and im in a hurry to get to class(im a full time student) so i notify the head cashiers that i didnt have the chance to sign in and they reassure me that they'll let the manager know. this has happened a few times over the course of working there.

now its my 4th month working there and i NOW realize that i havnt gotten paid for any of those days i worked. 44+ hours ranging from paycheck to paycheck i've pretty much worked for free or off the clock.

so its pretty much my word against theirs but who wins?

Pattymd
04-11-2006, 05:48 AM
We have no way of knowing, but when such incidents are investigated, they first look to the employer's records of time sheets, etc. Then they usually interview the claimaint. And they may interview other employees or supervisors who may or may not be able to back up either the employer's or the employee's statement.

Bottom line, the failure to sign in does not mean you don't have to be paid. You have nothing to lose by filing a claim here.

jae
04-11-2006, 02:39 PM
the one in charge of the checks is asking me to do all this work for my hours not on record. for example Yesterday, the minute i start talking about my missing hours she throws severe attitude at me and drops +15 fat file folders of timesheets on my lap for me to look through. she makes me go through them, BOTH westhills and burbank(we have to travel until our own store opens), and write down alll of my hours that i went and didnt sign in or didnt sign out. so i spent around 5 hours doing that. now shes asking that i ask for proof and expects me to do all the work.

where does my work end and hers begin?

i know im at fault for not signing in/out on those days but shouldnt it be the effort of both employer and employee that it be done and no one is working off the clock?
and what are my rights as an employee in these cases that she failed to recognize? because shes acting like i've committed a felony and like im not going to get payed for those hours because i "lack in responsibility."
thanks for replying. :D

Pattymd
04-12-2006, 04:07 AM
If she is your supervisor, your work ends and hers begins when she says it does.

Regarding your time, assuming you are a nonexempt employee (generally speaking, hourly-paid), you must be paid for all hours worked. The company is expected to know what hours you work and pay you accordingly. You can file a claim with your state Dept. of Labor if you are not paid in total.

However, you can also be disciplined up to, and including, termination for failure to follow company procedures by not clocking in/out as instructed. The resolution for this particular situation is to always clock in and out. Problem solved.

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