My step-son is going in for surgery and against our better judgement (Dad has custody) we have decieded to invite his mother to attend the surgery although she has made it ever increasingly difficult to be in the same room with. The Doctor has advised and is issueing a written recommendation that my step-son remain home (with us) for his post operation healing time in the amount of two weeks. The docotor said that she will talk with Mom and explain why this is necessary for the child to decrease the risk of infection ( Mom's home is continually under evaluation from the county due to the lack of cleanliness of it) and his risk of post operative bleeding. This was the doctor's idea when she explained the care that he should recieve and that he needs to be home.
Mom, however, has a court ordered visitation outline and for that two weeks Mom would be missing one weekend visit, and two six hour visits during that time. We have always complied with the order and have even gone out of our way to ensure that the child has transportation home (her responisbilty per the order) so that she can see him.
We dont know what her reaction will be when the doctor breaks the news to her and she usually is not understanding when it comes to serious issues with the child. She will probably get angry and say we are denying visitation.
My legal question is that if she is not so "understanding" to the childs need to remain home at that time since the doctor is the one recommending it are we in contempt? We are considering offering her to come and visit him when he is home on her days that she is suppose to see him but we know that she will decline. Also no where in the order are we required to offer make up time for missed visits.

My step-son is going in for surgery and against our better judgement (Dad has custody) we have decieded to invite his mother to attend the surgery although she has made it ever increasingly difficult to be in the same room with. The Doctor has advised and is issueing a written recommendation that my step-son remain home (with us) for his post operation healing time in the amount of two weeks. The docotor said that she will talk with Mom and explain why this is necessary for the child to decrease the risk of infection ( Mom's home is continually under evaluation from the county due to the lack of cleanliness of it) and his risk of post operative bleeding. This was the doctor's idea when she explained the care that he should recieve and that he needs to be home.
Mom, however, has a court ordered visitation outline and for that two weeks Mom would be missing one weekend visit, and two six hour visits during that time. We have always complied with the order and have even gone out of our way to ensure that the child has transportation home (her responisbilty per the order) so that she can see him.
We dont know what her reaction will be when the doctor breaks the news to her and she usually is not understanding when it comes to serious issues with the child. She will probably get angry and say we are denying visitation.
My legal question is that if she is not so "understanding" to the childs need to remain home at that time since the doctor is the one recommending it are we in contempt? We are considering offering her to come and visit him when he is home on her days that she is suppose to see him but we know that she will decline. Also no where in the order are we required to offer make up time for missed visits.

Kris,

I understand that you have issues with this woman, and they are ongoing. But, because I wanted a refresher on your story, I checked your posts, and unless you upped the wedding date, you are not even married to this child's father.

You need to STOP being "we" and start letting your husband and this child's mother make decisions. I know she has been awful, neglectful, and had the child taken from her for DUI with him and his half sibings in the car. I know you love him like your own. But you have no dog in this fight. Frankly, I'm suprised Mom hasn't done more to have you removed from the proceedings.

Court orders are done in the spirit of cooperation. My order doesn't say anything about made up time either. That doens't mean I get to tell my son's father that he's not seeing him, then refuse to let him make up a date.

Tell your fiance to have the doctor talk to mom. If she refuses to give up her days, then yes, he has some recourse. Dad should have the doctor fill out an afadavit explaining why it is medically necessary for this child to stay in one place during recovery. If Mom files for contempt, he can provide documentation that allowing him to leave the house put him in danger. That alone, however, doesn't mean he won't be found in contempt. It just gives him a chance. Your fiance shoudl try and work it out with her, and, if necessary, talk to his lawyer about filing a motion for an emergency custody/visitation modification.

You posted earlier that this surgery is not for an illness or injury, which means it is elective. Why is he receiving elective surgery, and has Mom signed off on it? Becuase if she hasn't, your fiance is NOT within his rights to allow it.

At risk of sounding just out right nasty, and I am sorry, but you three need ot grow up. I suppose you'll say it is her, but based on your posts, you and your fiance spend a lot of time participating in the drama. Enough already.

Well I refer to him as my husband now because he will be in two months and its just easier to explain the situation like that on boards such as this instead of going into detail all the time about our relationship status. And another thing the doctor told us that she doesnt need mother present to do the surgery or even a signature since Dad is the custodial and again we are trying with her and giving her the benefit of the doubt that SHE will behave as an adult that day and if not the hospital will have security on stand by if she refuses to leave when it is time to go. They said we are not the first people to ever be in this situation. And another FYI the surgery is for tonsils and adnoids that are obstucting his air way and this surgery is to improve his breathing and growth he is not "ill" and I am not quit sure if this falls under "elective". Mom also supports the surgery and I am pretty sure that my husband has the right to sign that kind of paper work especially if Mom agree's.
I was never involved in the court proceedings so Mom had no bone with me either. I was supportive of him and my step-son though and seek knowledge to help better understand the complexity of this situation and thats why I am on here and because I care and want to do the right thing for him. Sometimes life isnt so black and white, especially in this situation. Its impossible for people to understand since you really dont know our history. Anyway in the beginning we tried, but years of being taken advantage of for being the "adults" and always takeing the "high road" and her counting on us to do the right thing and then her acting the way she does knowing that we are good people and will allow it to happen for his sake has been hard when you are trying to work with someone that is unstable, mentally ill, and so full of hate it has left us very very tired. But like I said we are working on it and want what is best for him but there are times that we need to protect him from that environment. That is why we don't want him to go there right after surgery because the doctor said that wasnt what was best for him and we are willing to invite her to see him anyway. Thanks for the advice and I will tell Dad about it but hopefully Mom will understand and this was just me over thinking the situation again :o

Well I refer to him as my husband now because he will be in two months and its just easier to explain the situation like that on boards such as this instead of going into detail all the time about our relationship status. And another thing the doctor told us that she doesnt need mother present to do the surgery or even a signature since Dad is the custodial and again we are trying with her and giving her the benefit of the doubt that SHE will behave as an adult that day and if not the hospital will have security on stand by if she refuses to leave when it is time to go. They said we are not the first people to ever be in this situation. And another FYI the surgery is for tonsils and adnoids that are obstucting his air way and this surgery is to improve his breathing and growth he is not "ill" and I am not quit sure if this falls under "elective". Mom also supports the surgery and I am pretty sure that my husband has the right to sign that kind of paper work especially if Mom agree's.
I was never involved in the court proceedings so Mom had no bone with me either. I was supportive of him and my step-son though and seek knowledge to help better understand the complexity of this situation and thats why I am on here and because I care and want to do the right thing for him. Sometimes life isnt so black and white, especially in this situation. Its impossible for people to understand since you really dont know our history. Anyway in the beginning we tried, but years of being taken advantage of for being the "adults" and always takeing the "high road" and her counting on us to do the right thing and then her acting the way she does knowing that we are good people and will allow it to happen for his sake has been hard when you are trying to work with someone that is unstable, mentally ill, and so full of hate it has left us very very tired. But like I said we are working on it and want what is best for him but there are times that we need to protect him from that environment. That is why we don't want him to go there right after surgery because the doctor said that wasnt what was best for him and we are willing to invite her to see him anyway. Thanks for the advice and I will tell Dad about it but hopefully Mom will understand and this was just me over thinking the situation again :o

There is nothing confusing about just calling him your fiance, there is no need to go into your personal history to say that. He is not your husband. It's that simple. It doens't take any longer to type fiance than it does to type husband.

You have posted several times that she has JOINT custody. Joint legal custody is a legal term. It means that BOTH parties have equal decision rights when it comes to the child's medical needs, schooling, and religion, among other things. Sole physical custody does NOT mean that the parent with it does not have to inform the other parent of medical procedures. Quite the opposite, when you posted the specific wording of your fiance's order on another thread, it said this. *YOUR* interpretation is not binding.

The fact is, you are not "letting" her come to the surgery. She has the legal right to be there, and if your fiance refused, he would be in contempt. I find it hard to belive that a doctor would tell one parent that the other doesn't need to know about surgery. That would be reckless. Doctors don't get into custody disputes. The only way it is reasonable that the doctor told you this was if it was not fully explained to him or her that mom has joint legal custody. The doctor also has no way of knowing the conditions of Mom's home unless YOU told him or her.

Life is not black and white. But your fiance's custody order is. You have posted multiple times looking for ways to restrict this woman's visitation in some way. All you are doing is making it worse.

Abide by the order. That is your finace's only option If you keep going on your own "interpretation" of what joint custody means, you are just going to make the situation even worse.

Just to explain it deeper, I have SOLE LEGAL CUSTODY. I still have to tell my son's father about medical procedures (though I do not need his permission), and he has the absolute right to access the child if he is in the hospital. I don't have the right to turn him away, even though I have SOLE LEGAL custody. He is his legal father. That is how it works.

Sole physical custody does not create some type of magical forcefield that protects your fiance from his duty to inform his son's mother that the child is having surgery or to abide by a court order. It certainly doesn't give him the right to allow or disallow her to be at the hosptial.

Wow if you have really read all my postings then you would see that we are not tryin to hide this information or trump her joint legal custody. Joint Legal custody is not joint custody. I dont recall ever writing they have joint custody, usually joint legal to them both, and sole physical to Dad. That is how it worked. I was looking for clarification on what that was and got it from this discussion board because I knew that my interpertation isn't law.:rolleyes: We told the doctor Mom was aware and comeing to the surgery. We told her joint legal and asked if she needed to sign anything. Then she asked who the custodial parent was and that is Dad not Mom. Well then she explained that Dad only needs to sign. I am using the word allow because she doesnt have a right to stay there as long as she wants. The doctor explained that only Dad will be staying with the child at the hospital over night as that is hospital policy and if she refuses to leave then they would call security (not the first time they had to do that) That is as deep as that goes. As far as my trying to limit visitation all we have to do is say no a reap the wrath of the court system which we are not stupid and thats why I ask questions to try and get clarification. I apologize for comeing here looking for legal advice about child custody and visitation I thought that was what this forum was for, maybe I am wrong?
I am sorry that it annoys you that I call him my husband when he is my fiance and he will be my husband in like 60 days but I think that it's really weird that you are caught up in that. Our marital status does not effect the LEGAL ISSUES HERE in the context that I am talking about and are not really relevant.

Wow if you have really read all my postings then you would see that we are not tryin to hide this information or trump her joint legal custody. Joint Legal custody is not joint custody. I dont recall ever writing they have joint custody, usually joint legal to them both, and sole physical to Dad. That is how it worked. I was looking for clarification on what that was and got it from this discussion board because I knew that my interpertation isn't law.:rolleyes: We told the doctor Mom was aware and comeing to the surgery. We told her joint legal and asked if she needed to sign anything. Then she asked who the custodial parent was and that is Dad not Mom. Well then she explained that Dad only needs to sign. I am using the word allow because she doesnt have a right to stay there as long as she wants. The doctor explained that only Dad will be staying with the child at the hospital over night as that is hospital policy and if she refuses to leave then they would call security (not the first time they had to do that) That is as deep as that goes. As far as my trying to limit visitation all we have to do is say no a reap the wrath of the court system which we are not stupid and thats why I ask questions to try and get clarification. I apologize for comeing here looking for legal advice about child custody and visitation I thought that was what this forum was for, maybe I am wrong?
I am sorry that it annoys you that I call him my husband when he is my fiance and he will be my husband in like 60 days but I think that it's really weird that you are caught up in that. Our marital status does not effect the LEGAL ISSUES HERE in the context that I am talking about and are not really relevant.

I'm not "caught up" on anything. You had no problem posting originally that he was your finace. Calling him your husband is a lie. That's just how it is. It doesnt' "annoy" me. I just think that people should be truthful, that's all. It might not be relevant to your question, but it is relevant to your character.

A few things about the doctor. For starters, what you are talking about is an administrative issue. A doctor would absolutley not for any reason tell your fiance that he or she will have security remove another parent. I'm sorry, but it is absolutley unbelievable. Doctors are not lawyers. They would not give you a legal opinion about who needs to sign a medical waiver. If this child's mother wants to stay, and she is removed, your fiance is going to be in contempt. It will be espeically hard on him if he lets you, his girlfriend, stick around, while the child's mother was removed. Pediatric wards do not pick and choose which parent gets to stay with the sick child.

You are simply asking for drama in this situation. The fact of the matter is, YOU have no business even being at the hospital. You are Daddy's girlfriend. This is what I was talking about when I said the three of you needed to grow up. It's her son. Not yours. She gets to be there. That is what JOINT LEGAL CUSTODY is, whether you like it or not.

My character, Wow I had no idea that you know so much about me,:D
Anyway I am not planning on staying as this is against HOSPITAL POLICY and I find it hard to believe that he can be held in contempt for the hospital stepping in and enforcing THEIR POLICY which he has nothing to do with him.
As far as the doctor being unbelievable, believe it because that is what was said and the instructions given to us. She is again aware and supportive of the surgery so we are not standing in her way of knowing whats going on..
And this is really starting to get immature and not very insightful at all, kind of reminds me of trying to talk to her.. :p
So with that I refuse to continuing arguing with you and will no longer comment futher because this is insane!

My character, Wow I had no idea that you know so much about me,:D
Anyway I am not planning on staying as this is against HOSPITAL POLICY and I find it hard to believe that he can be held in contempt for the hospital stepping in and enforcing THEIR POLICY which he has nothing to do with.
As far as the doctor being unbelievable, believe it because that is what was said and the instructions given to us. She is again aware and supportive of the surgery so we are not standing in her way of knowing whats going on..
And this is really starting to get immature and not very insightful at all, kind of reminds me of trying to talk to her.. :p
So with that I refuse to continuing arguing with you and will no longer comment futher because this is insane!

Your actions and your commentary on your actions are absolutley a comment on your character. Take what you just said about this "reminding you of her" followed by a :p. That's a pretty good indicator that you are both immature and defensive.

You are either making a much bigger deal out of this situation than it actually is, or you are lying. One or the other. If she's aware and supportive, then why in the world do you have hospital security on hand to haul her away? What kind of hospital are you using that does not allow a parent in the pediatric ward, or would have security enter said pedicatric ward to take away a parent of a sick child? What kind of hospital allows doctors to give legal advice? Your posts are one huge red flag.

She has joint legal custody. She has the right to be there. You are the girlfriend. You have no rights. It's that simple.

If you honeslty have nothing to do with all this drama, then you need to have a serious sit down with your fiance and tell him it's time to start acting like a man. This woman isn't just acting, she is RE-acting, and if it's not to you, it's to him. She might be the crazy one, but you and your finace are doing nothing to fix the situation. Informing security and looking for ways to pre-empt her legally ordered visitation are proof of that.

Good luck.

Even though our conversation has been heated some of your legal advice is helpful. I dont think that you fully understand, we are not not allowing her to come at all.. she is comeing but our fear is that she will refuse to leave when the hospital says that its time for her to go. Again I will be leaving as well because it is against policy to have more then 1 parent there overnight. I know I am not a parent and I really dont need that thrown in my face especially since my FIANCE and I soley support him with everything he needs including and not limited to insurance, food, shelter, clotheing, and anything else not her and not to mention a real home something he has never had in her care. Anyway we asked what would happen if she refused to leave when it was time to go, doc replied that since it is against policy (only 1 parent may stay overnight) then they would have to call security and have her escorted off the property at that time if she causes a scence. She can come (as you stated), she just cant stay over night and now that we have had sometime we are encouraging her to come so that she learns the proper ways to care for him when he is released. My legal question was since the doc was recommending that he stay home if we could be in contempt I wasnt asking if this was a good enough reason to deny visits because I just don't want her to threaten it like she always does when we ask her a question about her conditions (which you probably read about). I always make a big deal about these things because he is a big deal to me not her and I shouldn't get full of anxiety over something that hasn't happend yet. Its so hard not to get involved especially since I love him so much and he lives with me. I hope that you understand, being a soon to be step-parent is not an easy thing. And I am more then "daddys girlfriend" I am daddys fiance and soon to be wife since we were in a heated discussion over labels. That kind of pushed my buttons, but like I said thanks again and I think that you give great legal advice.

Even though our conversation has been heated some of your legal advice is helpful. I dont think that you fully understand, we are not not allowing her to come at all.. she is comeing but our fear is that she will refuse to leave when the hospital says that its time for her to go. Again I will be leaving as well because it is against policy to have more then 1 parent there overnight. I know I am not a parent and I really dont need that thrown in my face especially since my FIANCE and I soley support him with everything he needs including and not limited to insurance, food, shelter, clotheing, and anything else not her and not to mention a real home something he has never had in her care. Anyway we asked what would happen if she refused to leave when it was time to go, doc replied that since it is against policy (only 1 parent may stay overnight) then they would have to call security and have her escorted off the property at that time if she causes a scence. She can come (as you stated), she just cant stay over night and now that we have had sometime we are encouraging her to come so that she learns the proper ways to care for him when he is released. My legal question was since the doc was recommending that he stay home if we could be in contempt I wasnt asking if this was a good enough reason to deny visits because I just don't want her to threaten it like she always does when we ask her a question about her conditions (which you probably read about). I always make a big deal about these things because he is a big deal to me not her and I shouldn't get full of anxiety over something that hasn't happend yet. Its so hard not to get involved especially since I love him so much and he lives with me. I hope that you understand, being a soon to be step-parent is not an easy thing. And I am more then "daddys girlfriend" I am daddys fiance and soon to be wife since we were in a heated discussion over labels. That kind of pushed my buttons, but like I said thanks again and I think that you give great legal advice.

Of course it pushed your buttons. You should see how angry my husband gets when my son's biological father - who left for 2 1/2 years - gets referred to as the child's father, when it is my husband who is clearly "Dad."

I am trying to make a very specific point to you. Even married, you have no rights to this child. Unmarried, and it doesn't matter if he presented you with the Hope diamond and you have the Cinderella Palace Chapel booked for tomorrow, you are still just a girlfriend. The labels we put on ourselves such as "engaged" are not legally binding (unless it's about giving the ring back, and that is a different legal issue all together).

Because of my son's father's absence, my husband WAS allowed to participate in the custody and visitation proceedings. But because he was my HUSBAND. Had he been my fiance, it would not have been allowed. Calling them your husband and stepson when they are not, when looking for advice here, is wrong.

Your very first post you stated:

My step-son is going in for surgery and against our better judgement (Dad has custody) we have decieded to invite his mother to attend the surgery although she has made it ever increasingly difficult to be in the same room with.

You did NO SUCH THING. Neither of you "decided" to invite her. It was and continues to be her right to be there when her son has surgery, because she has JOINT LEGAL CUSTODY. End of story.

I understand a hospital policy of one overnight guest in non-emergency pediatric cases. But you stated:

we are trying with her and giving her the benefit of the doubt that SHE will behave as an adult that day and if not the hospital will have security on stand by if she refuses to leave when it is time to go.

Security on stand by? What else does that mean other than you have alerted them that she is some sort of risk? Why? Why does Dad get to stay? It never occured to either of you to perhaps SWITCH OFF nights, Dad stays one, Mom stays the next? That would be the FAIR option.

Whether you say it or not, you are looking for a fight with this woman. Stop. She's not going away, AND she is legally entitled to be there when her son is recovering from surgery. If she wants to spend the night, there's no reason Dad won't be the one asked to leave. He is the primary care giver and custodial parent. He is NOT the only one with a voice, though. She has equal rights to this child, that's what joint legal custody means.

Again I understand all that, and again I will be the childs step-parent in like two months so refering to him as such is not inaccurate. I have also been in the picture since the day he was born so I am not some fling that appeared recently and want to cause drama. Your point is that we are not married yet (which has nothing to do with this issue and I have NEVER once stated that I felt that I had any rights to this child) and that I shouldn't be calling him my husband which he will be pretty quick here, well I am much more then a girlfriend. I am the mother to our daughter and the major and real mother figure for his son. I did not want to participate in the hearing because its not my child and as you stated I couldnt which I didnt want to anyway. Usually people are surpirsed that I have accepted the situation and love him the same as I love my own daughter that my fiance and I have together. I have never been scrutinized for it so this is a first.


"Security on stand by? What else does that mean other than you have alerted them that she is some sort of risk? Why? Why does Dad get to stay? It never occured to either of you to perhaps SWITCH OFF nights, Dad stays one, Mom stays the next? That would be the FAIR option."

Well that would be an option but since jr is only staying one night Dad will be staying with him. Mom might have a problem with that and she may refuse to leave when the HOSPITAL SAYS ITS TIME FOR VISITORS TO GO so we wanted to be pro-active and see what the hospital's policy and procedure was to handle that situation. I really dont see why that was wrong of us to ask. And she is a risk with her mental stability and alcoholism (all documented) and the terrible attitude that she has for losing custody. She mostly chooses not to participate in his life unless she has an opprunity to harrass us or flex control. She doesnt even attend her parenting classes as ordered or even his parent teacher confrences which my fiance informs her of and I DO NOT ATTEND so that she would feel comfortable going yet she never shows.

"Whether you say it or not, you are looking for a fight with this woman. Stop. She's not going away, AND she is legally entitled to be there when her son is recovering from surgery. If she wants to spend the night, there's no reason Dad won't be the one asked to leave. He is the primary care giver and custodial parent. He is NOT the only one with a voice, though. She has equal rights to this child, that's what joint legal custody means."

When somebody constantly wants to fight its hard not to. The doc said that it is Dads choice since he is the "primary care giver" and "custodial parent". They may have equal legal right but I am pretty sure that equal MEANS equal then you look at who the CUSTODIAL parent is and that probably out weighs this situation here and gives Dad the final say who will be staying with jr that ONE night and thats why the doc advised us the way she did or maybe its another reason but whatever reason that is how it is going to pan out because that is what the doc said.

Again my original legal question was about the doctors recommendation about him remaining home during post op, not the day the surgery occurs which has already been taken care of. My question that I asked about the recommendation you answered and you answered well the rest of this was not necessary. I really am not asking for your personal view point on the situation or even things in my postings that are not questions. Again I really appreciate your LEGAL ADVICE because it is smart but please in the future please refrain from giving me personal advice since as you know family court is complex and even more complex are family situations out side of court rooms and you dont know me well enough to give me good personal advice. And again you are going to say "the order is black and white" yes yes I know and that is why it is followed.
Thanks again and your legal advice has been helpful.

Again I understand all that, and again I will be the childs step-parent in like two months so refering to him as such is not inaccurate. I have also been in the picture since the day he was born so I am not some fling that appeared recently and want to cause drama. Your point is that we are not married yet (which has nothing to do with this issue and I have NEVER once stated that I felt that I had any rights to this child) and that I shouldn't be calling him my husband which he will be pretty quick here, well I am much more then a girlfriend. I am the mother to our daughter and the major and real mother figure for his son. I did not want to participate in the hearing because its not my child and as you stated I couldnt which I didnt want to anyway. Usually people are surpirsed that I have accepted the situation and love him the same as I love my own daughter that my fiance and I have together. I have never been scrutinized for it so this is a first.


"Security on stand by? What else does that mean other than you have alerted them that she is some sort of risk? Why? Why does Dad get to stay? It never occured to either of you to perhaps SWITCH OFF nights, Dad stays one, Mom stays the next? That would be the FAIR option."

Well that would be an option but since jr is only staying one night Dad will be staying with him. Mom might have a problem with that and she may refuse to leave when the HOSPITAL SAYS ITS TIME FOR VISITORS TO GO so we wanted to be pro-active and see what the hospital's policy and procedure was to handle that situation. I really dont see why that was wrong of us to ask. And she is a risk with her mental stability and alcoholism (all documented) and the terrible attitude that she has for losing custody. She mostly chooses not to participate in his life unless she has an opprunity to harrass us or flex control. She doesnt even attend her parenting classes as ordered or even his parent teacher confrences which my fiance informs her of and I DO NOT ATTEND so that she would feel comfortable going yet she never shows.

"Whether you say it or not, you are looking for a fight with this woman. Stop. She's not going away, AND she is legally entitled to be there when her son is recovering from surgery. If she wants to spend the night, there's no reason Dad won't be the one asked to leave. He is the primary care giver and custodial parent. He is NOT the only one with a voice, though. She has equal rights to this child, that's what joint legal custody means."

When somebody constantly wants to fight its hard not to. The doc said that it is Dads choice since he is the "primary care giver" and "custodial parent". They may have equal legal right but I am pretty sure that equal MEANS equal then you look at who the CUSTODIAL parent is and that probably out weighs this situation here and gives Dad the final say who will be staying with jr that ONE night and thats why the doc advised us the way she did or maybe its another reason but whatever reason that is how it is going to pan out because that is what the doc said.

Again my original legal question was about the doctors recommendation about him remaining home during post op, not the day the surgery occurs which has already been taken care of. My question that I asked about the recommendation you answered and you answered well the rest of this was not necessary. I really am not asking for your personal view point on the situation or even things in my postings that are not questions. Again I really appreciate your LEGAL ADVICE because it is smart but please in the future please refrain from giving me personal advice since as you know family court is complex and even more complex are family situations out side of court rooms and you dont know me well enough to give me good personal advice. And again you are going to say "the order is black and white" yes yes I know and that is why it is followed.
Thanks again and your legal advice has been helpful.

I hope things work out for you all, I really do. But when you consistently post about "what ifs" and "maybes" and continually question this woman's rights and impose your own interpretations (I highlighted the portion above where you did it again), then expect full and complete answers. Your interpretation is wrong. The fact that they have joint legal custody means that they have equal weigh-in on medical decisions. She is just as much his parent as he is, and she has just as much right to be there as he does. He has no authority to throw her out just because he is the custodial parent. HE DOES NOT. You keep insisting that the fact that he has physical custody somehow makes him the more important parent with some type of higher decision making power. You are just wrong on this.

Nothing I gave you was personal. All of it directly related to your fiance's case. The fact of the matter is, no, they are not your husband and stepson, and it is in fact inacurate to refer to them as such.

Don't think I don't understand how this works. My husband was "Dad" a full year before we were married. I get it. But the fact that you refuse to admit that hey, yeah, they're not my husband and stepson, is a problem. You see yourself in a position in this child's life that you do not actually hold. You are not a wife and stepmother. You just aren't. No matter how "pretty quick" the wedding is coming.

You will be dealing with this woman for years. Stop going in swinging. She has rights. EQUAL legal rights to this child, including making medical decisions. Your finace is asking for serious trouble by continuing to think that he can unilaterally make decisions about his care. You are only enabling that. You are both wrong.

I wanted to add, that I am not nor have I scrutinized your relationship with this child. Yes, you are a "mother" to this child, I get it, just as my husband has been "Dad" since my son was a year old.

You are taking it personally as if I am questioning your dedication to this boy and your fiance. I am not. But don't stretch truths. There is no "pretty close" to being a wife and a stepmother. You are or you aren't, and you aren't.

Your multiple posts about this child have asked everything about step-parent adoption to what joint custody really means to whether your fiance can refuse to allow Mom at the hospital during surgery becuase the surgery was not even on one of her scheduled visitation days. You actually asked if you guys can stop her from coming to her own child's surgery becuase it wasn't during her time. To try and sound hip with the lingo, I have to say, WTF?

Go ahead and love him like your own. Heck, for all you know, maybe you will have the chance to adopt him one day, or maybe Mom will snap out of it and things will start to go better. But all your posts are looking for pro-active ways to put up a fight. STOP.IT.

"Don't think I don't understand how this works. My husband was "Dad" a full year before we were married. I get it. But the fact that you refuse to admit that hey, yeah, they're not my husband and stepson, is a problem."

Again if you havent noticed that I am refering to him as MY FIANCE now since this is such a hot issue with you so I guess I am not following this statement. And if even the boys OWN MOTHER calls me his step mom you shouldnt be so offended if I call him my step-son you are a complete stranger.

You also miss quoted me you missed:
"and thats why the doc advised us the way she did or maybe its another reason but whatever reason that is how it is going to pan out because that is what the doc said. "
Did I say that this was law? Did I say that I knew for sure? No I did not. But thanks for your clarification. The doctor still made the decision based on who the custodial parent was and that was who would be spending the night unless it was agreed otherwise.
Thanks again for all your advice.

I wanted to add, that I am not nor have I scrutinized your relationship with this child. Yes, you are a "mother" to this child, I get it, just as my husband has been "Dad" since my son was a year old.

You are taking it personally as if I am questioning your dedication to this boy and your fiance. I am not. But don't stretch truths. There is no "pretty close" to being a wife and a stepmother. You are or you aren't, and you aren't.

Your multiple posts about this child have asked everything about step-parent adoption to what joint custody really means to whether your fiance can refuse to allow Mom at the hospital during surgery becuase the surgery was not even on one of her scheduled visitation days. You actually asked if you guys can stop her from coming to her own child's surgery becuase it wasn't during her time. To try and sound hip with the lingo, I have to say, WTF?

Go ahead and love him like your own. Heck, for all you know, maybe you will have the chance to adopt him one day, or maybe Mom will snap out of it and things will start to go better. But all your posts are looking for pro-active ways to put up a fight. STOP.IT.

Like I said before its hard when you are always being attacked. We just like to be prepaired so looking for pro-active ways to fight is all we can do against the insanity. Thank you for this post because it did feel like that I really appreciate it.

A small refresher on my "qualifications" as to the situation.

I am the custodial parent of three daughters, or was until two of them got old enough to move out on their own. "Mom" moved 2,000 away on a short "Vacation" right after the divorce and never came back. I provided unlimited phone access for the children so they could call their mother any time they wanted. Yesterday my 17 year old was on the phone till past midnight as it was her mothers birthday.

They were discussing the lack of brains that the 19 year old showed in her choice of boyfriends.

My wife was also full custodial parent of her three children. Neither one of us, myself or my wife, would EVER refuse the NCP any visitation under any reason.

FACTS

NCP loves the child, and is biological parent. If doctor says "jump" they jump.

NCP has made monumental bad decisions, and deep down understands why things are the way they are. They do not need a "refresher" from the other biological parents "New" partner (married or not!)

Child is going into the hospital, and under surgery. They do not need to be exposed to the bickering that the "adults" have subjected them to during the divorce process. This process MUST be as stress free as possible. Otherwise the medical team will eject EVERYONE. I am good friends with the head of security for the local hospital. What he says, goes. Don't make it get to that point.

MY OPINION

Extend the olive branch. Invite the child's mother into your home. You have a lot in common. You both love the child. You both have the child's father in common. Have the child's father let her know that because of the doctors order, visitation will be at your home, then do everything to make her comfortable. Meals, snacks, refreshments, movie, and anything you can think of. If the mother does not seem to want you near, give her space. Things do not happen immediately.

Soon enough you both will be speaking about the child's girlfriends. :D :eek:

Here is heart advice from a 50 year old parent. Sometimes you need to shut up, and let the other person (child or biological parent) see things for themselves. Do not point out everything that is wrong. That denies the other person a chance to grow. Without growth, everyone loses. It worked for me and my wife.

John

A small refresher on my "qualifications" as to the situation.

I am the custodial parent of three daughters, or was until two of them got old enough to move out on their own. "Mom" moved 2,000 away on a short "Vacation" right after the divorce and never came back. I provided unlimited phone access for the children so they could call their mother any time they wanted. Yesterday my 17 year old was on the phone till past midnight as it was her mothers birthday.

They were discussing the lack of brains that the 19 year old showed in her choice of boyfriends.

My wife was also full custodial parent of her three children. Neither one of us, myself or my wife, would EVER refuse the NCP any visitation under any reason.

FACTS

NCP loves the child, and is biological parent. If doctor says "jump" they jump.

NCP has made monumental bad decisions, and deep down understands why things are the way they are. They do not need a "refresher" from the other biological parents "New" partner (married or not!)

Child is going into the hospital, and under surgery. They do not need to be exposed to the bickering that the "adults" have subjected them to during the divorce process. This process MUST be as stress free as possible. Otherwise the medical team will eject EVERYONE. I am good friends with the head of security for the local hospital. What he says, goes. Don't make it get to that point.

MY OPINION

Extend the olive branch. Invite the child's mother into your home. You have a lot in common. You both love the child. You both have the child's father in common. Have the child's father let her know that because of the doctors order, visitation will be at your home, then do everything to make her comfortable. Meals, snacks, refreshments, movie, and anything you can think of. If the mother does not seem to want you near, give her space. Things do not happen immediately.

Soon enough you both will be speaking about the child's girlfriends. :D :eek:

Here is heart advice from a 50 year old parent. Sometimes you need to shut up, and let the other person (child or biological parent) see things for themselves. Do not point out everything that is wrong. That denies the other person a chance to grow. Without growth, everyone loses. It worked for me and my wife.

John

Thanks a lot, that was really insightful. I only hope that we all can be as lucky as you have been in respects to our situation. I have even told my fiance that I would be willing to skip the surgery day if that would make it easier for her and he was upset with me because he thinks that I should be there. I told him that it is not about me, him, or biological mother its about the child and I want him to have the least stress as possible on that day. He understood and we are going to tell biological mom the same thing. I am willing to give her plenty of space now regarding school, medical, and welfare when she feels like being involved and when she doesnt get involved then I do.

Lucky?

I would not wish what I went through on anyone.:(

Write up a school schedule, and let her know she is welcome to any event. Do not exclude yourself. (Nobody wins in that situation) Your time to be in the spotlight ended at high school graduation. :eek:

Life is all about protecting and nurturing the up and coming generation. NEVER bad mouth her in front of the child. She is his mother.

My wife went through the roof the other day. My 17 year old referred to her as " her MOM" She is just now coming down. :D


Blessings.

John

I just want to suggest that for the child's sake as well as your own sanity that you find a way to peacefully coexist with the child's mother.

I have 3 stepsons. I have been married to their father for 13 years. The youngest was 6 and the oldert 10 when we married. It is a balancing act. You have to learn not to let her actions get to you and you have to learn to distance yourself from any drama.

I could tell you stories about the early years when dealing with ex which would make your situation sound not so bad.

The more you make this a power struggle, the more you will lose in the long run. You have remember this is the child's mother and right now, by the way your attitude comes across on this board, its got to be coming across to this child too. Do not make it an issue for the child.

The only way you will all "win" is to find a way to minimize the drama you are creating and think of the child. Right now, all I see is you trying to impose your will and what you want. Not once, have you discusse what the child wants or need.

All 3 of you need to grow up and think of this child FIRST.

Kris I know how hard your situation is. My husband is the custodial parent of his daughter, and I'm the one who helps her with homework every night, buys her clothing, took her shopping for her first bra, etc... But I'm not a biological parent. If g-d forbid she needed surgery her biological mother would have much more right to be there than I would - and would that bother me to no end because her mother is useless and isn't even allowed unsupervised visitation? Absolutely! But, if my SD needed to recover in one place, and that were my house since that is where she is the most comfortable, I'd be inviting her mother over to spend time with her while she recovers. If she didn't feel comfortable being there, my husband would just offer make up parenting time and it wouldn't be a big deal. Being a parent isn't about punching a time clock, it doesn't matter how many hours you spend with the child, it's about the quality of those hours - my husband's ex feels differently, she wants the hours she is supposed to get with her. That's her choice to view it that way. Your soon to be stepson will remember you and your soon to be husband making the extra effort.

While it is a daily struggle for me, one of my jobs as an adult in this child's life is to encourage a healthy relationship with her biological mom. Good luck, I know it is hard.

The more you make this a power struggle, the more you will lose in the long run. You have remember this is the child's mother and right now, by the way your attitude comes across on this board, its got to be coming across to this child too. Do not make it an issue for the child.

The only way you will all "win" is to find a way to minimize the drama you are creating and think of the child. Right now, all I see is you trying to impose your will and what you want. Not once, have you discusse what the child wants or need.

All 3 of you need to grow up and think of this child FIRST.

Well the child is four and again he really doesn't remember a lot of the bad times with Mom and living with Mom which is a good thing. We dont talk about these issues in front of him because its just not right and we know that. Although we can't say that she doesn't but I am not going to accuse her of it even though the boy tells us that Mommy doesnt like Daddy and Kris. Anyway my assumption would be that he would want all three of us there if thats possible which I pray that it is.

Just an update..
She never even showed up, it was actually dissapointing.

Usually that is how it works with parents such as your childs bio-mom.... The present-and-accounted for parents worry themselves sick over dealing with the other parent and keeping the peace, and then the absent parent remains such............. absent.

Hope the surgery went well.
God bless!
Amy

A good friend of ours was removed from Arnold Palmer Childrens Hospital in Orlando when her infant was getting surgery for cleft pallate, she was separated from the father and got into a shouting match with him, his parents and nurses, she also had to get bailed out from the county jail in Orlando, they were married but separated and custody had not been determined yet. The hospital will call security if the doctor or nurses feel it is necessary. We just went through a hospital incident where a visitor was asked to leave by the nurses for disturbing the patients on the ward.