earlier today, over the phone. My sister is driving me nuts looking up labor laws & such so I went online to look too & found this board.

After working over 8 years @ my job the manager fired me today over the phone & when asked why she said she didn't want to get into any "specifics", that they've decided to use their "at will employment clause" & let me go because my performance in general has deteriorated over the last few months...that's about as specific as she got.

Any suggestions? Comments? Questions?

Yes file for unemployment and seek new work

That's it?
Do they have to give me a reason for firing me?

No they do not. In fact they told you that. Google "at will". In short it says an employer or employee may terminate their relationship at any time for any or no reason with or without notice. The exceptions are if said termination violated law, cba or, employment contract. None of which I see applies here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will

California -Public utilities are the only employers required upon request by the discharged employee to give the employee a letter stating the period of service and the kind of service rendered by the employee.

So just like that, eh? No warnings needed, no just cause, nothing. Just show up for work one day "Hi, how's it going...BTW YOU'RE FIRED, LEAVE NOW!".

Not the most polite way of handling it, or necessarily good management, but yes, it is legal to do it that way.

Do I have any rights to the Christmas bonus that hasn't been paid yet?

And on another thread here I asked about the 72 hr final check thing. They're going to just direct deposit my final check, which will be a week after I was fired. And I was suspended the day prior to being fired, does that figure into the 72 hrs?


As for good management, don't even get me started on that! :rolleyes:

Very likely, no Christmas bonus for you. I've never yet seen a "Christmas bonus" that was promised under a legally binding contractual agreement.

How is the bonus determined; do you know?

I think the bonuses used to be determined by whim, or maybe a dart toss.

I went into ex-work today & accorfding to a couple people I talked to, no bonuses have been given at all this year :rolleyes:

I think the bonuses used to be determined by whim, or maybe a dart toss.

I went into ex-work today & accorfding to a couple people I talked to, no bonuses have been given at all this year :rolleyes:

With a dart toss, I really wouldn't expect a contractual obligation here. It's happening a lot lately. :(

And on another thread here I asked about the 72 hr final check thing. They're going to just direct deposit my final check, which will be a week after I was fired. And I was suspended the day prior to being fired, does that figure into the 72 hrs?


http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_WaitingTimePenalty.htm

By CA Law, your ex employer should have your final check to you no later than 72hours. I would tell them no way for the direct deposit...the payroll admin is being lazy and doesn't want to have to cut you a final check since it's easier to process in the system :mad:

Do I have any rights to the Christmas bonus that hasn't been paid yet?

And on another thread here I asked about the 72 hr final check thing. They're going to just direct deposit my final check, which will be a week after I was fired. And I was suspended the day prior to being fired, does that figure into the 72 hrs?


As for good management, don't even get me started on that! :rolleyes:

By CA Law, your ex employer should have your final check to you no later than 72hours. I would tell them no way for the direct deposit...the payroll admin is being lazy and doesn't want to have to cut you a final check since it's easier to process in the system :mad:
Well, the check has most likely already been deposited by now, so it's a little late to stand his/her ground on that issue.

In California, if you are fired, they have to give you your final pay on the spot. If you quit without notice they have to pay you within 72 hour. Waiting time penalties are a days wages for each day your final pay is late.

3.1 Labor Code § 201.
If an employer discharges an employee, the wages earned and unpaid at the time of discharge are
due and payable immediately. An employer who lays off a group of employees by reason of the
termination of seasonal employment in the curing, canning, or drying of any variety of perishable
fruit, fish or vegetables, shall be deemed to have made immediate payment when the wages of said
employees are paid within such reasonable time as may be necessary for computation and payment
thereof; provided, however, that such reasonable time shall not exceed 72 hours, and further
provided that payment shall be made by mail to any such employee who so requests and designates
a mailing address therefor.

Worried Spouse is correct!!! In CA you must practically say "You're fired here's your final paycheck" in the same sentence. They must pay you ALL wages due on the spot!!! Up to and including the day they fire you, provided you worked that day.

It is also illegal (correct me if I am wrong HR attorneys) to "suspend" an employee in CA pending firing or investigations....Why were you suspended?

As far as the bonus is concerned a bonus is just that "a bonus". It is not an owed wage or accrued (like vacation time). So they owe you nothing on that front.

From what I understand by your post, they owe you penalties for not paying you your wages immediately upon firing...even "after the fact". In my opinion you should go after them for the wage penalties, if they refuse.... get a lawyer.

Just wondering...did they pay you out any vacation time you accrued? Cause you can bust them for that too.

While I will grant you that CA has a tendency to stand alone in some respects, I would be very interested in seeing a statute or case law that prohibits an employer from suspending an employee pending an investigation or termination. Please show us the law that says so.

I live and work in CA and have not had this happen to me but it does happen and often. I have seen several people suspended pending an investigation that could or would end in termination

"Employers should be careful when suspending employees without pay, because an improper suspension may jeopardize the salary basis test. Suspension for violations of major workplace safety rules does not affect an employee's salaried status.

Salaried employees suspended for less than full week are entitled to a full week's pay. On the other hand, salaried employees can be suspended for a full week without pay and retain their exempt status.

The new regulations adopt by the U.S. Department of Labor permit disciplinary deductions in pay for a full day or more, imposed in good faith for infractions of workplace conduct rules. The effect of this on California employees, governed by California, has yet to be determined by the courts. However, since Legislature and Industrial Welfare commission created the California rules prior t the new Federal Regulations on August 23, 2004, it appears that the old regulations should be used."

http://www.harriskaufman.com/salariedemployee-california.htm

It's a slippery slope suspending employees:(

I'm still looking for where it is illegal to suspend any employee. Problematic, yes, sometimes, for exempt employees. Illegal, no.

And we don't know that the poster is exempt.

I know that at my last employer based in Alabama was sued for suspending employees for three days at their CA operation (because that's how long it took the stupid accounting department to issue a final check) then calling them into work to fire them. It was their way of getting around the "all wages due upon termination". It was a class action and the employees won.

I am not sure how the law reads. That's why I said "HR attorneys correct me if I am wrong". It was quite a long time ago, maybe it has since been amended? :)

Salaried employees suspended for less than full week are entitled to a full week's pay. On the other hand, salaried employees can be suspended for a full week without pay and retain their exempt status.


Just to be clear, not all "salaried" employees are "Exempt Salaried". The docking restrictions just mentioned (29 CFR 541.602) apply to Exempt Salaried employees only. There are no such docking restrictions for Non-Exempt Salaried employees (29 CFR 778.113).

And the law does not say that even exempt salaried employees cannot be suspended. Only that they can only be suspended without pay in limited circumstance.

Suspension WITH pay is perfectly all right.

Here are a few things you can do:

a. Wait for your final check to arrive in the mail. Keep the envelope, then file a labor board claim. You are entitled to one day's pay for each day your check was not paid to you after discharge (up to 30 days). Keep the postmark on the envelope for evidence adding the additional days to that post mark for delivery.

b. Talk to a labor attorney to examine your last 4 years of employment with this employer and others to examine possible labor violations such as misclassification, failure to reimburse expenses, fail to provide timely meal and breaks, etc.

Hope this helps.

Just a quick comment on the suspension issue. We do business in CA and suspend employees all the time. Now this is generally pending an investigation but sometimes it is to get the final monies ready for the termination.

There is no law in CA regarding the length of a suspension, but we had a DLSE judge tell us they didn't like open-ended suspensions. Note this was one judge on one file, but she thought it wasn't fair to suspend the employee without giving them a specific time frame. Actually, I kind of agree with that.

We changed our policy to a 7 day suspension. Now we tell them they are suspended while we review this set of circumstances and we will get back to them within 7 days. Only once have we had to call an employee and tell them we were unable to complete the investigation within the 7 days (a crucial witness was on vacation) and would need to extend it another 7 days.

Again, has no force of law but it works for us.

earlier today, over the phone. My sister is driving me nuts looking up labor laws & such so I went online to look too & found this board.

After working over 8 years @ my job the manager fired me today over the phone & when asked why she said she didn't want to get into any "specifics", that they've decided to use their "at will employment clause" & let me go because my performance in general has deteriorated over the last few months...that's about as specific as she got.

Any suggestions? Comments? Questions? I think you should contact a labor lawyer and examine all aspects of your "employment relationship" to make sure they followed all labor laws. You may be entitled to money you are not even aware of.