My employer defines the workweek to begin on Sunday at 12:01 am. But the work day begins when the shift starts. I work overnight in a group home. I start my shift around 10:30 p.m. I often work until 8:30 a.m. or later. Today I was off at 11 am. This Sunday I will go to work at 10 p.m. I will get off around 8:30 am Memorial Day morning. I will be working with people getting overtime holiday pay, but I will not get that pay because I started at 10 p.m. the night before.

It seems very inconsistent. I pointed out that the handbook says that the work week starts at 12:01 a.m. and it seems that the work day should also start then. The answer was that I didn't understand.

Actually it only matters once or twice a year on Thanksgiving Day and sometimes Christmas. My schedule is Sunday night to Thursday morning. I work every Thanksgiving until late in the morning. While others are compensated or enjoying their turkey, I am never compensated and too tired to enjoy the day.

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My employer defines the workweek to begin on Sunday at 12:01 am. But the work day begins when the shift starts. I work overnight in a group home. I start my shift around 10:30 p.m. I often work until 8:30 a.m. or later. Today I was off at 11 am. This Sunday I will go to work at 10 p.m. I will get off around 8:30 am Memorial Day morning. I will be working with people getting overtime holiday pay, but I will not get that pay because I started at 10 p.m. the night before.

It seems very inconsistent. I pointed out that the handbook says that the work week starts at 12:01 a.m. and it seems that the work day should also start then. The answer was that I didn't understand.

Actually it only matters once or twice a year on Thanksgiving Day and sometimes Christmas. My schedule is Sunday night to Thursday morning. I work every Thanksgiving until late in the morning. While others are compensated or enjoying their turkey, I am never compensated and too tired to enjoy the day.

The company is not required to pay you holiday pay or extra pay for working on a holiday.

They can do what they want, even if it is not consistent and makes no sense.

Duplicate post

The "work week" is a federal law concept related to the FLSA law and the overtime provisions in that law. The FLSA law back in the 1930s defined the workweek as a fixed 168 hour period of time not intended to be changed that is unrelated to shifts and actual start times. I have worked for some large employers and all of them without exception used exactly the same workweek for all employees, even though we had many different shifts and schedules in many different states. It would be mechanically very difficult for payroll to have keep track of different shifts for each employee, and there is no legal requirement that they do so.

Now I understand that you want your own personal work week definition that you can force your employer to use. This however has never been a legal requirement for as long as there as been paid overtime and minimum wage rules. And since your method is massively more work for the employer that what the actual legal requirement is, it is not very likely that most employers will be inclined to use your method.

CA workweek definition (http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Glossary.asp?Button1=W#workweek)

workweek
Any seven consecutive days, starting with the same calendar day each week beginning at any hour on any day, so long as it is fixed and regularly occurring. "Workweek" is a fixed and regularly recurring period of 168 hours, seven consecutive 24-hour periods. An employer may establish different workweeks for different employees, but once an employee's workweek is established, it remains fixed regardless of his or her working schedule. An employee's workweek may be changed only if the change is intended to be permanent and is not designed to evade the employer's overtime obligation.

Thank you, DAW

Although I have been subjected to some terribly convuluted work schedules to avoid OT--until I got a Dr.'s excuse. :)

(I think you may have overstated the case by saying, rather disingenuously, that I want my own personal definition of my workweek that suits me forced on my employer. I just wanted to know what the law is. So again, thank you for that informatiion.)

Also, thank you, cbg

I have heard that someplace before. Oh Yeah! the labor commisson! It was a different question though. I get annoyed sometimes. But I get over it.

I am there because the work is significant, not because it pays well. LOL

Sue, please for the future post your questions only once. Thank you. I've merged the two together so that all the answers are in one place, which is much easier for the volunteer responders.

Thank you, cbg. I know better, but was unfamiliar with the forum and found the second site which seemed more appropriate after the first post. Thank you for joining them. Moderators are sooo cool! :cool:

;) :) :cool: :D

My employer defines the workweek to begin on Sunday at 12:01 am. But the work day begins when the shift starts. I work overnight in a group home. I start my shift around 10:30 p.m. I often work until 8:30 a.m. or later. Today I was off at 11 am. This Sunday I will go to work at 10 p.m. I will get off around 8:30 am Memorial Day morning. I will be working with people getting overtime holiday pay, but I will not get that pay because I started at 10 p.m. the night before.

It seems very inconsistent. I pointed out that the handbook says that the work week starts at 12:01 a.m. and it seems that the work day should also start then. The answer was that I didn't understand.

Actually it only matters once or twice a year on Thanksgiving Day and sometimes Christmas. My schedule is Sunday night to Thursday morning. I work every Thanksgiving until late in the morning. While others are compensated or enjoying their turkey, I am never compensated and too tired to enjoy the day. there are a number of class cases being filed now relating to start and stop times and consecutive days worked.

Thank you, that is interesting.

I have another question regarding "cashing out sick time and vacation time," but it will wait for another thread.

Vacation time cannot be forfeited in California and must be paid on termination.

Vacation time cannot be forfeited in California and must be paid on termination.

Agree. That is not true of sick pay however.

I will be working with people getting overtime holiday pay, but I will not get that pay because I started at 10 p.m. the night before.

I think I understand what the employer is doing and we used to do that, too. We changed the policy because of the confusion it caused.

You work July 3rd from 11 PM to 7 AM and get no time and a half for working on a holiday, even though seven hours were on a holiday. Jane works July 4th from 11 PM to 7 AM and gets 8 hours for working on a holiday, even though she only worked one hour on the holiday.

We changed the holiday premium policy to allow the payment only on the actual 24 hours of the holiday. Our work week begins at 7 AM on Mondays.

Most holidays it really is not an issue. I work an alternate work week: 4x10 hours, Sunday night through Thursday morning. So if it is a Monday holiday I come back and work the Monday night shift and get my holiday time and a half.

But every year I work Thanksgiving morning, starting on Wednesday night. I often even work overtime because it is not unusual for my relief to be late or to need me to do something. But I never get paid the holiday pay for Thanksgiving, because I start the shift on Wed night. I work an hour or so on Wednesday night and 8+ hours on Thursday, Thanksgiving morning. Since I don't work Thursday night I never get the holiday pay for the work I do on Thanksgiving.

I had a similar employer/situation.

If you were part time, you do not qualify for holiday pay.:mad:

OP, I don't know what else to tell you. Neither holiday pay nor shift pay is required by law, so the company can set the rules on when they will and will not pay either. The policy is legal. Period. Live with it.

pattymd

I do live with it.

My last post was in response to ScottB and was simply clarifying.

I am aware that the employer can do what they like so far with the beginning and ending of a shift.

Nevertheless, legal and fair are not the same thing, imo.