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ldalxndr
01-09-2008, 02:08 PM
I was recently terminated. At the time of my termination I was given my final check however, on that check I did not receive reimbursement for my recent business expenses and mileage.

I have asked several times for this amounts to be paid, however, because they are not "wages" my employee basically has been laughing at me continually saying, "We are getting to it."

My question is, are reimbursements considered wages and can I go to the labor board and ask for penalties or am i SOL?

Pattymd
01-09-2008, 02:15 PM
They aren't considered "wages" in the traditional definition, but they DO need to be paid. The question is, whether the DLSE applies the "final pay" regulations and the accompanying "waiting time penalties" to expense reimbursements and my educated opinion is, they would not.

What date were you terminated and how long did it normally take to get your reimbursements? I'm just guessing here, but I don't think the DLSE is going to require that they advance the reimbursement schedule solely due to your termination.

I'd be interested in hearing other responses, though.

DAW
01-09-2008, 02:44 PM
My thinking is the same as Patty, meaning that I am not sure either. You sort of have two different issues. Getting the expenses reimbursed. And then optionally maybe seeing if you have a late payment penalty. I would give the employer 30 days from when you first seriously raised the issue to pay you. If not, file a wage claim. Keep it polite, but if you have not yet done so, send them a polite letter via certified U.S. mail. Hint, speaking as someone on the employer side of things, certified mail is taken seriously where phone calls and email sometimes are not. It is taken to mean that someone is building up documentation for a court action. Phone calls or emails are taken to mean that someone is blowing off steam.

At what point you either get paid or have to file a wage claim, you have a decision to make. As long as you are filing a wage claim anyhow, asking for penalties (which you may or may not get) is not a big deal. Also, you could also just call up CA-DLSE and ask them. If you get a hard answer, let us know. I am sure that CA-DLSE knows what the rules are, but I have not seen anything specifically addressing penalties on late expense payments.

Betty3
01-09-2008, 07:43 PM
California: When the Employer Terminates the Employee
If the employment relationship ends because the employer terminates the employee, lays them off, or otherwise lets them go, the employee's final paycheck must be provided to them on their last day of work. (Labor Code § 201.) The employer is subject to various penalties if it waits until the next regularly scheduled payday to pay the employee their final wages. (Labor Code §§ 203, 210.)
When the Employee Quits
If the employee voluntarily quits, and provides at least 72 hours notice, their final paycheck is due on their last day of work. If the employee voluntarily quits and provides less than 72 hours notice, the final paycheck is due not later than 72 hours after notice is provided. Additionally, the employee can request that their final paycheck be mailed to them, and the mailing must occur within the 72

What Must be Paid**
All earned wages and accrued but unpaid vacation time must be paid to the employee. Expenses, however, do not need to be reimbursed until the normal time for reimbursement occurs.

DAW
01-09-2008, 09:17 PM
Betty:

I (and probably Patty) am familar with that information. The problem is that the CA labor code talks about wages and expense reimbursement very differently. While your quote tells when expense reimbursements must be paid by, the penalties are only described in terms of wages paid late. And expenses per the CA labor code are not the same thing as wages.

Wages and penalties for late payment of wages are discussed in CA labor code section 2xx, which your quote references. Expense reimbursements however are in section 2802, which does not mention penalties at all, but rather the interest, attorney's fees and court cost recoveries associated with civil actions.

From the CA-DLSE ENFORCEMENT POLICIES AND INTERPRETATIONS MANUAL:
4.3 Wages Due Quitting Employee.
As discussed at Section 3.4 of this Manual, wages due most employees who quit are due within 72 hours after resignation unless 72 hours previous notice was given. Under most circumstances a quitting employee must return to the office or agency of the employer in the county where the work was performed for his or her wages. (See Section 7.4 of this Manual)

4.3.4 Any Wages.
“Any wages” includes any amount due as wages (see Labor Code § 200, see also, DIR, DLSE v. UI Video, 55 Cal.App.4th 1084, 1091); but does not include expenses. (Hagin v. Pac. Gas & Elec. 152 Cal.App.2d 93)

California Labor Code

203. "If an employer willfully fails to pay, without abatement or reduction... any wages of an employee who is discharged or who quits, the wages of the employee shall continue as a penalty from the due date thereof at the same rate until paid or until an action therefor is commenced; but the wages shall not continue for more than 30 days."

2802. (a) An employer shall indemnify his or her employee for all necessary expenditures or losses incurred by the employee in direct consequence of the discharge of his or her duties, or of his or her obedience to the directions of the employer, even though unlawful, unless the employee, at the time of obeying the directions, believed them to be unlawful.
(b) All awards made by a court or by the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement for reimbursement of necessary expenditures under this section shall carry interest at the same rate as judgments in civil actions. Interest shall accrue from the date on which the employee incurred the necessary expenditure or loss.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term "necessary expenditures or losses" shall include all reasonable costs, including, but not limited to, attorney's fees incurred by the employee enforcing the rights granted by this section.

Betty3
01-09-2008, 10:27 PM
Oh ok. I just wasn't sure from your posts that you both were positive when reimbursement of expenses should be paid. **

I didn't see any info that penalties had to be paid. I hope the OP calls the Ca-DLSE & asks as you suggested.

**P.S. I probably misinterpreted your posts - I should have known with you two being payroll people (& you in Ca.) that you knew that.

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