I will try to sum up the situation as best as possible...... My fiancé has 2 daughters, now ages 3 & 4 (Kiara and Valerie). Both girls are from the same mother, he never married her and actually while they were together, she put him on child support for his oldest daughter Valerie (4) because she said she had to do that in order for her to qualify for help from the government. They had a very rocky relationship, she is bi-polar and a cocaine drug user. She was admitted into the psychiatric ward at least 2 times, because when he (my fiancé) went to see her one day she was passed out in her apartment foaming at the mouth and her daughter was left by herself at the young age of one, unattended, because her mother attempted to kill herself. (just some examples of the "rockiness")
When he and I became involved he was seeing his daughters on the weekends and paying child support for only one of them (because that's all she had ever put down) but of course contributed in other ways (clothes food,money). Early September 2006, we started receiving calls from the day care that she was always bringing them in dirty diapers with house slippers on, not real shoes, there was also occasions when she didn't bother to call or pick the girls up, so I left my job and went and picked the girls up at daycare at 7pm when the daycare closed at 6pm and she was no where to be found. Then he was advised she never re-registered the girls in 4C and they could not attend that day care anymore, she then told us she couldn't handle the girls right now and asked to take care of them, last minute. So we were forced to make arrangements for daycare and take the responsibility on 100%a.s.a.p.
We have done this for a little over a year now... in the mean time STILL paying child support, paying daycare and having 2 extra mouths to feed and clothe 24/7.We made the adjustments, in the meantime she barely ever called to check on her daughters nor did she ask to see them that often. Never gave us any of the child support money and is a chronic job hopper, she gets fired from everywhere, as well as living off of government help that really was for the girls.
Recently she got fired from her job, yet all of a sudden, has a new apartment (she moved out from her old apartment with her mother who is also a drug user and bi-polar), a new boyfriend and a new cell # (which by the way changes often as well). She seems like she was trying to show her new boyfriend what a great MOMMY she can be NOW.... and asked to see the girls on 12/23. We agreed, however told her we would pick them up at 2pm on 12/24. She agreed, come 12/24, she refuses to answer her phone, same for 12/25, we have no idea where she lives NOW and we truly were trying to be nice to her around the holidays, when we decided to let her see the girls. She finally called today, acted like nothing happened and said she would agree to drop the girls off to us this Friday, only if she can see where we live, she also has stated she wants the girls back, has a sitter for them and now WE can see them on the weekends. He told her, "we have had them for over a year now, STILL paying you child support and NOW you're pulling this"...she said "oh no.... I have kept track and you have only had them since this may"....she is OBVIOUSLY delusional and I have PROOF that we have had them over a year, I also have daycare records from where she used to have them, stating all of the things she did that were wrong.
Now that I am so emotionally involved in this, I am furious :mad: ... both of these girls became my life and they even call me mommy and I have totally adjusted my life to help him take care of them, we have both worked hard and NOW she decided she wants to be a mom again???
We didn't have money for a lawyer and that is the only reason we didn't try to fight her for sole custody of the girls (well for him to have sole custody).
We have been advised about legal aid and he is awaiting approval so we can go to court....

My questions are:
If she DOESN'T bring the girls and tries the whole disappearing act...what rights does he have ??? Can he call the police? (Both girls do have his last name)
When she set him up on child support, did that automatically make her the custodial parent?? How can we find out?
Based off of this BRIEF description (and believe me i did my BEST to keep it that way), does he have a shot at custody? And if we start the legal process of trying to get custody, can she leave the state with the girls?
What if we get them and don't want to give them back for fear of what she will do to try to get away from us? Can SHE then call the police?

Sorry this is so long, I am just so confused and need help to figure out what is the best direction and what rights does he have ????

PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!!!!!! :(

Is there a court order for visitation?

no court order, child support was established for 1 of the 2 girls but that's it, they never went to court.

Based on my very limited experience, I only know one thing - getting them back is your first and most important priority........ The person who has the children in their home when papers are filed, etc. is already in better standing due to the stability they can show, etc.

Get them back NOW.
Then let an attorney help you with the rest.

God Bless!
Amy

Until he establishes paternity for both children, he has very few if any rights to keep the children. By being unmarried when the children were born created this situation along with the fact that he has not pursued formal visitation / custody. Yes she can call the police on you for witholding the children. He could call the police but there is no court order that she is violating so it really wouldn't do him any good. Ususally once something is filed with the court, there is usually some kind of statement prohibiting either party from permanently removing the children from the courts jurisdiction.

You need to file a motion to establish paternity and a motion for sole custody ASAP. Even if you have to file these pro se now (without an attorney) does not mean that you have to continue to represent yourself. It will only get the ball rolling until legal aid is determined. Either way, it would be in your best interest to get some professional legal help on this. Gather all documentation you can in reference to having cared for the children for the last year. Medical records, daycare records, cancelled checks, witness statements etc... Every scrap of anything will help you.

Check for any police records / arrest records for the mother and anyone she is associating herself with. You might be able to find out where she is living this way. (This is actually how we know where my step-daughter's bio mother is most of the time.)

Do not make threats or in any way forewarn the mother that this is going on. Do not engage her. Do not challenge her. And most importantly, do not allow her to enduce either of you to have any kind of verbal or physical altercation.

Wow, this is all GREAT information and advice, and I am going to take it and help him start making these moves, a.s.a.p.!
As far as the patternity being established, I do have 1 question. Now he was NOT at the hospital for Valerie's birth (the 4 year old) but did ask for a patternity test after she was born, this was granted through the court and he took the test and does have this paper establishing his patternity for Valerie(the one he is paying child support for). Now he WAS at the hospital for Kiara's birth (the 3 year old) and did sign the birth certificate. Both girls do have his last name.
Does THIS give him any rights as the father under these circumstances, even though he had not sought out formal custody or visitation up until this point???

I would have him go down today and file for custody of them girls.... If he signed both birth certificates he is their father.. Make sure you bring all your proof of everything from the time you recieved theese girls till the end.. Good luck.... I hope everything goes well for you...

Until he goes before a court, nothing is guaranteed.

One more thing that must be pointed out. You, personally, have no legal status in these children's lives.

I know you have an emotional connection, but you are a legal stranger to the children.

You will want to make sure that you are not seen as trying to unsurp the birth mother's place... even if you have.

One thing you may wish to change before going into court is the way you word things...

The mother self-medicating with drugs is a really bad thing, but if you keep stressing her issues are because she is bi-polar, you may find that there is someone in that courtroom who is a fully functional bi-polar individual and not very happy with that point being stressed that they wouldn't be fit to raise a child.

Pointing out that she has a documented mental illness that she is NOT following the medication regimine for would be a much better way to express your feelings.

So,far so much good information and I want to thank everyone for their words of wisdom and shared experiences!! It has really helped and opened my eyes.
I do understand to the fullest, that I have no legal ties to these children,however I am concerned about their well being and i want whatever is truly in their best interest and I know their father does too and I want to help him to do this and pursue his paternal rights through knowledge and education and advice from people like yourselves.
If I or my fiance REALLY thought their birth mom was a regular stable mom and good figure in their lives , she would be our best friend and I would keep an open and healthy relationship with her to show the girls I am their friend and that I want to be there for them, while they grow up and adapt to this situation, however this is simply not the case!

UPDATE....We actually picked up the girls last night because he called to see if there was anyway we could get them a day early due to his work schedule, today (Friday). She agreed and put her new boyfriend on the phone, we met up with them and he told us that they had only been dating for a short time and that she is 3 months pregnant with his baby and that she is officially living with him now. He did say he is 35 (by the way she is only 20) and a father of 2 girls that he has SOLE custody of and that he told her not to pull the dissapearing act with the girls because he wouldn't like if his daughters mother did that to him, and he made her call us.(she told us she was working and that's why she didn't call us back) He went on to say, my fiance and her should work things out between each other for the better of the the girls.......He doesn't seem to know the whole story and what he doesn't know is that my fiance has BEEN trying to do this for sometime, but she ALWAYS chooses to make things EXTREMELY difficult.
Last night i was very polite with her and we spoke briefly, but things that concern me (among MANY) is that she said to me that now that she is pregnant she is bored because she can't go out or do any drugs???? What kind of a mother would say this???? I guess the same kind that would punch her stomache and call her child a monster, then offer that same child to her aunt as a present since she couldn't have kids (she did this while pregnant with kiara, the youngest girl) !!! :mad:
I do appreciate the last person's post about tips on wording and expressing feelings, I will admit I have to learn that, if I am going to be assisting him with this or giving him advice on this. I want to learn from this experience and be as educated as possible, for no one's benefit, but those girls !!
I would do anything for them and just want them to have a good surrounding and upbringing. Something different then what their mother grew up in.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart to all of you who wrote back, both of us really felt lost in this process and didn't know where to go, but thanks to the internet and all of your feedback, we have a starting point and good tips for the road ahead.:)

God Bless

I wanted to Wish all of you a Happy New Year as well !:D

I wish you and yours a Happy (and custody filled) New Year as well!

To bebo,
May God Bless you!

HELP AGAIN.... Does anyone know , since he don't have custody YET, can he still apply for food stamps or kid care (health care for him and the girls). You all know we have the girls 24/7 and daycare, healthcare , groceries, it all adds up and we are so tight with money. He never applied for government help because he thought since he didn't have custody, he couldn't. Is this true ???

He can apply for assistance at anytime, weather he gets it or not depends on his income and his housing cost, Ususally, rent, or home payment , utilities,phone, ect.... He may or may not get it.

HELP AGAIN.... Does anyone know , since he don't have custody YET, can he still apply for food stamps or kid care (health care for him and the girls). You all know we have the girls 24/7 and daycare, healthcare , groceries, it all adds up and we are so tight with money. He never applied for government help because he thought since he didn't have custody, he couldn't. Is this true ???

you guys are paying for daycare, two fully able adults in the home able to work and still need assistance???

it has been a month since your last update? has dad filed any motions to get formal custody of the children? to get child support of the children? has he notified csea that the child he pays support for lives with him?

yes we both work full time, he also gets child support deducted from his paycheck AND we pay daycare AND we buy them clothes AND we feed them AND we have all of our other bills. He is waiting to hear back from the legal aid to see if he qualifies so we don't have to live under a bridge to pay the lawyer fees to help us get the girls.
I'm assuming a lawyer would file the motion to get formal custody, as well as child support and he went to the CSEA and told him our situation and they reffered us to legal aid but mentioned nothing to him about doing anything official in reporting that the child he pays for lives with us, CAn he report that ??? What will happen if he does????
We are VERY new to all of this and that is why I am on this site to get helpful information on which way to go.

:mad: I will try to sum up the situation as best as possible...... My fiancé has 2 daughters, now ages 3 & 4 (Kiara and Valerie). Both girls are from the same mother, he never married her and actually while they were together, she put him on child support for his oldest daughter Valerie (4) because she said she had to do that in order for her to qualify for help from the government. They had a very rocky relationship, she is bi-polar and a cocaine drug user. She was admitted into the psychiatric ward at least 2 times, because when he (my fiancé) went to see her one day she was passed out in her apartment foaming at the mouth and her daughter was left by herself at the young age of one, unattended, because her mother attempted to kill herself. (just some examples of the "rockiness")
When he and I became involved he was seeing his daughters on the weekends and paying child support for only one of them (because that's all she had ever put down) but of course contributed in other ways (clothes food,money). Early September 2006, we started receiving calls from the day care that she was always bringing them in dirty diapers with house slippers on, not real shoes, there was also occasions when she didn't bother to call or pick the girls up, so I left my job and went and picked the girls up at daycare at 7pm when the daycare closed at 6pm and she was no where to be found. Then he was advised she never re-registered the girls in 4C and they could not attend that day care anymore, she then told us she couldn't handle the girls right now and asked to take care of them, last minute. So we were forced to make arrangements for daycare and take the responsibility on 100%a.s.a.p.
We have done this for a little over a year now... in the mean time STILL paying child support, paying daycare and having 2 extra mouths to feed and clothe 24/7.We made the adjustments, in the meantime she barely ever called to check on her daughters nor did she ask to see them that often. Never gave us any of the child support money and is a chronic job hopper, she gets fired from everywhere, as well as living off of government help that really was for the girls.
Recently she got fired from her job, yet all of a sudden, has a new apartment (she moved out from her old apartment with her mother who is also a drug user and bi-polar), a new boyfriend and a new cell # (which by the way changes often as well). She seems like she was trying to show her new boyfriend what a great MOMMY she can be NOW.... and asked to see the girls on 12/23. We agreed, however told her we would pick them up at 2pm on 12/24. She agreed, come 12/24, she refuses to answer her phone, same for 12/25, we have no idea where she lives NOW and we truly were trying to be nice to her around the holidays, when we decided to let her see the girls. She finally called today, acted like nothing happened and said she would agree to drop the girls off to us this Friday, only if she can see where we live, she also has stated she wants the girls back, has a sitter for them and now WE can see them on the weekends. He told her, "we have had them for over a year now, STILL paying you child support and NOW you're pulling this"...she said "oh no.... I have kept track and you have only had them since this may"....she is OBVIOUSLY delusional and I have PROOF that we have had them over a year, I also have daycare records from where she used to have them, stating all of the things she did that were wrong.
Now that I am so emotionally involved in this, I am furious :mad: ... both of these girls became my life and they even call me mommy and I have totally adjusted my life to help him take care of them, we have both worked hard and NOW she decided she wants to be a mom again???
We didn't have money for a lawyer and that is the only reason we didn't try to fight her for sole custody of the girls (well for him to have sole custody).
We have been advised about legal aid and he is awaiting approval so we can go to court....

My questions are:
If she DOESN'T bring the girls and tries the whole disappearing act...what rights does he have ??? Can he call the police? (Both girls do have his last name)
When she set him up on child support, did that automatically make her the custodial parent?? How can we find out?
Based off of this BRIEF description (and believe me i did my BEST to keep it that way), does he have a shot at custody? And if we start the legal process of trying to get custody, can she leave the state with the girls?
What if we get them and don't want to give them back for fear of what she will do to try to get away from us? Can SHE then call the police?

Sorry this is so long, I am just so confused and need help to figure out what is the best direction and what rights does he have ????

PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!!!!!! :(
Hell yea he has rigths so do you get a lawyer,get all expence that you have put down times you had the children ,children are not bargining chips they deserve more