In my job one vacation day is earned per month up to 10. I have six earned vacation days scheduled for Dec. I was offered a job in a local factory but was only able to give 8 working days as notice instead of 10. I was advised by my supervisor because I did not give the full 10 working days notice that I would not be paid for any of my earned vacation. Is this legal or should I file a complaint?

Yes, it is legal. Vacation pay is not unconditionally payable at termination in WV.

Even though I have actually earned it? So if I would have taken it all this week and just quit I would have been paid my vacation instead of actually working out my notice?

That's correct. WV law does not require vesting of earned vacation. If that's the company policy, the DOL will not force the company to contradict it.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to appear thick headed. I guess I don't understand. I have documentation that says I have 6 earned days of vacation yet to be used. But I will not be paid for those now. I guess the part that confuses me is this:

"- On quitting, pay all wages, including fringe benefits, at the regular payday, (except if one pay period’s notice is given by the employee, all wages including fringe benefits must be paid at the time of quitting)."

From the Labor Law Poster hanging in our office.

isn't vacation a "fringe benefit"?

isn't vacation a "fringe benefit"?

What is your pay period?

bi-monthly, every two weeks

bi-monthly, every two weeks

Well, bi monthly and every 2 weeks are 2 different pay periods, but, in any case, you didn't give a full pay period notice, so you are not entitled to your "fringe benefits".

so basically I have no reason then to sit here and work out my full notice? That is so sad, it is a shame that a company would want to deny someone something they have earned because they chose to do the "right thing" and give as much notice as possible. However, had I chosen to be morally inept and just taken my vacation and quit I would have been rewarded.

West Virginia is not my state, so I went over to the BNA Payroll library (a paid service) and came up with the following:

Vacation Pay on Termination
For purposes of payment on termination, “wages” includes accrued fringe benefits capable of calculation and payable directly to employees. This does not require fringe benefits to be calculated contrary to an agreement between employers and employees that does not contradict state law. Thus, vacation pay is payable on termination in the same fashion as wages earned.

Ok, DAW that makes slightly more sense to me, however, I am unfamiliar with that source. I have earned those 6 days, I have the print out from my payroll department as well as the request from my scheduler for me to advise which days I wanted to use them. Does anyone out there think I should file a complaint with my states labor board? Will it make a difference if I work out my notice or if I just quit now? I am so confused.

Thanks, DAW, I couldn't find a thing on the DOL site; the site is cute, but it isn't very user friendly. :mad: My apologies, WVautumn.

My recommendation for whatever it is worth is to file a wage claim with your state's DOL (not my state, I have no idea what the procedure is). The claim might work. It might not. It costs you little or nothing to file the claim and you have enough support so that your claim is not arguably off the wall.


>>> I am unfamiliar with that source
There are four big payroll tax library services (APA, BNA, CCH, RIA). If you pay a lawyer or accountant for an opinion, the chances are pretty good that they used one of these services to generate the opinion. It would be a major pain to try to maintain webpointers for all of the various state DOL and related websites, even if the sources actually existed on line (sometimes they do not). It is easier to just use a professional tax service to do the leg work.

No apology necessary. I am just trying to get as much information as possible. I do not want to quit my job in an unprofessional fashion. I have no desire to burn any bridges however, I also do not intend to be used as a pack mule and then be let go w/out benefits I have rightfully earned. Thank you all for your help. Any additional advice is GREATLY appreciated. I do want to be able to confront my supervisor in a professional and well informed manner. Thanks again to all.

Thanks, DAW, I couldn't find a thing on the DOL site; the site is cute, but it isn't very user friendly. :mad: My apologies, WVautumn.


That is the other reason that I do not like using state DOL websites for states I am not familar with. The major payroll library services are not perfect, but they are very widely used, tend to correct errors quickly, and frankly tend to be regarded as more "reliable" if not for "authorative" then many government sources. The federal DOL website is about as authoritative as it gets, but it took them something like 2 years to update their own changes to the Exempt Salaried regulations. And the federal DOL website is much more reliable then many of the state DOL websites. The phrase "close enough for government work" might have originated on DOL websites as far as I am concerned.

I can sympathize with this. The first place I began my search was the local DOL site. Not only is it impossible to speak to a person it is also nearly impossible to find any pertinent information.

And if you cannot find pertinent information, does it mean that the information does not exist, or just that you could not find it? Very frustrating.

Yes, on a much lighter note, if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound? Sorry I couldn't resist. But thank you again everyone has been very helpful.

Yes, on a much lighter note, if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound? Sorry I couldn't resist. But thank you again everyone has been very helpful.


Or if a man..................., oh, never mind. :o ;)

I meant to post to this thread earlier, but the dang business needs got in the way.:o

I waded through the very poor website of WV and it looked to me like they clearly stipulate that fringe benefits include vacation AND that fringe benefits are paid upon termination.

There was one little section in there that raised the question (in my mind) about whether or not any fringe benefits were owed when there was an agreement (read -- employee manual) to the contrary unless it violated the law. A potential loophole for the employer if the employee manual stipulates the conditions upon which vacation can be paid.

I was stunned to learn that my state, despite calling "vacation" wages, allows employers to refuse to pay if the policy says so. No court challenge yet, so the DOL position (in a Democrat administration!) will stand.

Thank you would you care to provide me with the link to that information. It seems you found much more concise info than I could on WV's page. Thanks again.

Thank you would you care to provide me with the link to that information.

In the words of Striper.

"Oh, Man!"

(Striper is a character on Dora the Explorer, my granddaughter's favorite show)

I will look again.

http://www.wv.gov/Offsite.aspx?u=http://www.labor.state.wv.us/

(c) The term "wages" means compensation for labor or services rendered by an employee, whether the amount is determined on a time, task, piece, commission or other basis of calculation. As used in sections four, five, eight-a, ten and twelve of this article, the term "wages" shall also include then accrued fringe benefits capable of calculation and payable directly to an employee: Provided, That nothing herein contained shall require fringe benefits to be calculated contrary to any agreement between an employer and his employees which does not contradict the provisions of this article.

Note the bold underlined part.

(l) The term "fringe benefits" means any benefit provided an employee or group of employees by an employer, or which is required by law, and includes regular vacation, graduated vacation, floating vacation, holidays, sick leave, personal leave, production incentive bonuses, sickness and accident benefits and benefits relating to medical and pension coverage.

So, vacation IS a fringe benefit, but, if company policy (which an employee agrees to upon hiring) provides conditions under which the vacation is or is not paid, company policy rules.

Ok see now that is where the confusion begins. Because this is vacation time that I have ALREADY earned. It is not time that is contingent upon me doing anything else to earn it. So because I gave an 8 day notice instead of 10 I just forfeit all of it? See that seems really illogical because there was nothing to stop me from using all my vacation and just walking out except my own personal work ethic. There would have been no recourse for the company to get that payment back b/c it is something I have already earned.

No one at my home office will return my calls now. I think they are stalling to make me work out my notice and THEN deny me my vacation pay. This is beyond frustrating.

Oops sorry, that was rude, thank you for the link!

PS I also don't know how you ever found ANY information on that site. That may be one of the most user unfriendly sites I've ever tried to obtain info from. My tax dollars at work!

Or if a man..................., oh, never mind. :o ;)
Thats just not right Patty

That may be one of the most user unfriendly sites I've ever tried to obtain info from.

It is bad, but there are ones that are worse.

There is nothing to prevent you from calling your State DOL and asking them, point blank, about your vacation. Be sure to have a copy of your employee handbook or manual available.

It will cost you your time, nothing more.

FWIW, we allow vacation after a year of employment, but accrual begins on Day One. It is easiest to allow the payroll system to do the accruals based upon hours worked and reflect the accrued (not necessarily earned) amounts on paychecks.

Some employees do not get the fact that they will not be paid for any vacation unless they have been with us a year.

One recent hire, who lasted all of eight weeks, wants her "vacation pay." She read (so she said, by her signature) the employee handbook which clearly stated when she would have earned vacation. She also received a newsletter that restated the same. No matter. She intends to call the DOL. She will learn from them that our stand is legal and she gets no vacation pay.

Thank you. I promise I am not one of those :) I have worked for this company for over three years now and have found it to generally be a pleasant experience. I can honestly say this is my first experience in which I cannot even get someone to return my phone call or discuss a matter with me.

I have contacted the local DOL but like most of our local government agencies I got an automated system which kindly asked me to leave a message. I did so but have not received a response. I will be filing a complaint if I cannot convince my company that I have earned that vacation pay.

On a side note, I would never have begun to look for employment elsewhere were it not for the fact that I do not have any health insurance and am unable to obtain any through the private sector. I do very much enjoy my job and will be sorry to leave it only to take a factory job several extra miles from home for better benefits.

Give it a couple of days. Who knows how far backed up the queue is, plus Monday was a holiday. Did the website provide for a way to email your question? I've done that with other states and gotten faster responses.

Thank you, it did. I am nothing if not over ambitious. I both called and emailed. I did forget that it was a holiday. Thanks for reminding me.

Just an update. I was paid for all of my vacation time after having a discussion with my employer. I would like to thank everyone for all the friendly advice. It was much appreciated.

Just an update. I was paid for all of my vacation time after having a discussion with my employer. I would like to thank everyone for all the friendly advice. It was much appreciated.

Send the check to

ScottB
c/o Laborlawtalk
Nocity
Nostate Nozip

:D