Last Tuesday morning June 19, 2007, I was talking to my supervisor on the phone and said that if I felt well enough that would come in and help with some painting up on the 4th floor. At no time did I tell her that I would be there for sure and it would be hours donated, not paid. Well, Wednesday turned out to be a lousy day for me healthwise and I couldn't go in. Since I hadn't told her that I was coming for sure I didn't call. Which, I guess it would have been a simply cortesy if I had.

On Friday when I arrived at work 2 hours early she stated that she had tried to call me a few times and had not been able to get through to me. Have dial up internet and am on it alot. She proceeded to tell me that she was worried about me because I hadn't shown up on Wednesday to volunteer. Then she told me that she had also tried to call me to see if I would stay over for a while on Saturday morning because the usual employee was going to be late. Then the third thing that she wanted to call me about was the fact that she didn't need me to come in early to volunteer a couple of hours for her, that she in fact would have been paid for, because she had too much to do.

When she told me she didn't need me, I went out into the yard and started weeding. Since I was there, thought I would atleast make myself useful. After all I was volunteering my time.

My only scheduled work day was Friday from 3:45 PM - 7:45 AM Saturday with only 8 hours being paid at minimum wage. On Saturday morning she arrived at 8:20 AM, gave me my last paycheck and said that she was letting me go because I was just not available enough to her. At no time did I agree to work for 16 hours for $53.00 and then make myself available to her at will.
No where in the job description did it state that I was to hang around my house and wait for her to call me. I would have never taken the position. I felt like I was donating 8 hours a week and that was enough.

When I asked her for a letter signed by her stating the reason for my discharge, she said I didn't need one. She stated that I was still in my 90 day probation and that it just didn't work out for her. She also stated that she felt I didn't need the job anyways and that another employee really needed the money. That particular employee already works 64 hours a week for 32 hours pay and is forced, due to her particular circumstances to donate hours in addition to the 32.

Granted I don't work because I need the money. Lots of persons work because they want and like to. I felt like I was doing a community service and felt good about it.

Unfortunately this has made me feel very bad about myself. I really liked my job.

I called her again on Monday and requested a letter of termination. She still won't provide it. What can I do to get her to provide it? Does she have any legal grounds to withhold the letter? I am the third person that she has fired in the last 3 months, she also got rid of a manager that had been there for 16 years. Fired the yard service that had been there for 11 years. I particularly wanted the letter in order to approach the board of directors with the situation.

Did she have just cause to fire me?

Yes the employer has can terminate.Under M.C.A 39-2-904(2)(a)(b)

(a) During a probationary period of employment, the employment may be terminated at the will of either the employer or the employee on notice to the other for any reason or for no reason.

(b)If an employer does not establish a specific probationary period or provide that there is no probationary period prior to or at the time of hire, there is a probationary period of 6 months from the date of hire.
Your post is a little unclear how do you donate work if you are being paid?
Is this a non-profit or something?
JoeC

Thank you for taking the time to set me straight on the laws, with regards to the termination.

In response to your question on how time is donated. Montana states minimum wage is $6.15 per hour. If you work a 16 hour shift and you get paid $53.00 for the 16 hours you would have to be donating 8 hours of the shift right? And, yes my guess is that it is a non-profit organization. The manager is salaried and works 40 hours per week, receives vacation pay, health insurance, accrued sick days.

The other three employees, one works 4 shifts that are each 16 hours long, and is paid $56.00 per shift. The second employee works 1 shift that is 48 hours and is paid for 4 shifts at the rate of $60.00 per shift. Then the 3rd person works one 16 hour shift. In other words you are there, but supposedly sleeping or doing your own thing for 8 hours of every shift. Your assigned chores easily take up the full 8 hours that are paid. Your only responsibility during the other 8 hours is to be fully available to take people in and assign them rooms, get them settled, take phone calls, and be fully responsible for the business operations. These individuals have no benefits at all. No health insurance, no accrued sick leave, no accrued vacation time.

If the time is not paid, then wouldn't it be considered donated? After all you cannot leave the premisis. If not donated then what would it be considered please?


The extra 8 hours of each shift is referred to as "sleep time" by the employer. There is a seperate apartment within the building for the use of the employees and yes there is a bedroom with a bed. To the best of my knowledge that bed has not even had sheets on it for over a year.

Again I want to thank you for the time you took to respond to my post.

Thank you for taking the time to set me straight on the laws, with regards to the termination.

In response to your question on how time is donated. Montana states minimum wage is $6.15 per hour. If you work a 16 hour shift and you get paid $53.00 for the 16 hours you would have to be donating 8 hours of the shift right? And, yes my guess is that it is a non-profit organization. The manager is salaried and works 40 hours per week, receives vacation pay, health insurance, accrued sick days.

The other three employees, one works 4 shifts that are each 16 hours long, and is paid $56.00 per shift. The second employee works 1 shift that is 48 hours and is paid for 4 shifts at the rate of $60.00 per shift. Then the 3rd person works one 16 hour shift. In other words you are there, but supposedly sleeping or doing your own thing for 8 hours of every shift. Your assigned chores easily take up the full 8 hours that are paid. Your only responsibility during the other 8 hours is to be fully available to take people in and assign them rooms, get them settled, take phone calls, and be fully responsible for the business operations. These individuals have no benefits at all. No health insurance, no accrued sick leave, no accrued vacation time.

If the time is not paid, then wouldn't it be considered donated? After all you cannot leave the premisis. If not donated then what would it be considered please?


The extra 8 hours of each shift is referred to as "sleep time" by the employer. There is a seperate apartment within the building for the use of the employees and yes there is a bedroom with a bed. To the best of my knowledge that bed has not even had sheets on it for over a year.

Again I want to thank you for the time you took to respond to my post.

Wow! That's a great payroll question! That the stuff Patty answers. I'm looking forward to the answer myself.
JoeC

However since it is slow I will give you some more details of your states wrongfull termination act.
Which is some what unique,allot of posters think that Montana wrongful termination act,means that Montana is not an "at-will" state. That is incorrect.
That is even written on some prominent H.R websites that deals with these issues. The fact is While Montana law still provides that, absent provisions to contrary, employment is "at-will," under Wrongful Discharge From Employment Act, employer in most cases must have good cause to fire employee. "Good cause" is defined in Act as "reasonable job-related grounds for dismissal based on failure to satisfactorily perform job duties,disruption of employer's operation, or other legitimate business reasons." Under Act, constructive discharge is not less wrongful than actual firing. Jarvenpaa v Glacier Elec. Coop. (1995, Mont).
Montana has not abrogated the at-will employment presumption. It has merely carved out an exception which it will apply in appropriate cases. So, where sufficient disparity of bargaining power exists between employer and employee, and where the employer has by objective manifestations given the employee the reasonable expectation of job security in exchange for faithful service, the covenant of good faith will be implied. If the employer acts capriciously, arbitrarily, or unreasonably in discharging an employee, the employer has violated the covenant of good faith and may be subject to liability in contract and in tort for contract, compensatory and, where appropriate, punitive damages.
The act takes a turn here though:
39-2-915. Effect of rejection of offer to arbitrate. A party who makes a valid offer to arbitrate that is not accepted by the other party and who prevails in an action under this part is entitled as an element of costs to reasonable attorney fees incurred subsequent to the date of the offer.
Which basically says the employee must arbitrate,unless he/she has one very strong case. If the employee looses,then he/she would be responsible for the employers attorney fees. If the employer called for arbitration,and the employee refused.
Guaranteed the employer will call for arbitration the moment he is served.
Arizona Employment Protection act is not that restrictive. However no one claims Arizona is a just cause state. The California court system is far less restrictive,and court decisions in California appear to be more favorable to the employee than Montana.
All though the Montana wrongful termination act is better than nothing it does not overcome the '"at-will" presumption.
The Montana courts do not imply the covenant in every contract as a matter of law,as Arizona,and California do. Montana focuses upon the character of the defendant's conduct and the justified expectations of the contracting parties. In determining the justifiable expectations of the parties, the court may consider a variety of factors; but the principal element stressed in the decisions appears to be the disparity of bargaining power between the parties to the contract.
JoeC

Thank you for taking the time to set me straight on the laws, with regards to the termination.

In response to your question on how time is donated. Montana states minimum wage is $6.15 per hour. If you work a 16 hour shift and you get paid $53.00 for the 16 hours you would have to be donating 8 hours of the shift right? And, yes my guess is that it is a non-profit organization. The manager is salaried and works 40 hours per week, receives vacation pay, health insurance, accrued sick days.

The other three employees, one works 4 shifts that are each 16 hours long, and is paid $56.00 per shift. The second employee works 1 shift that is 48 hours and is paid for 4 shifts at the rate of $60.00 per shift. Then the 3rd person works one 16 hour shift. In other words you are there, but supposedly sleeping or doing your own thing for 8 hours of every shift. Your assigned chores easily take up the full 8 hours that are paid. Your only responsibility during the other 8 hours is to be fully available to take people in and assign them rooms, get them settled, take phone calls, and be fully responsible for the business operations. These individuals have no benefits at all. No health insurance, no accrued sick leave, no accrued vacation time.

If the time is not paid, then wouldn't it be considered donated? After all you cannot leave the premisis. If not donated then what would it be considered please?


The extra 8 hours of each shift is referred to as "sleep time" by the employer. There is a seperate apartment within the building for the use of the employees and yes there is a bedroom with a bed. To the best of my knowledge that bed has not even had sheets on it for over a year.

Again I want to thank you for the time you took to respond to my post.

Health insurance, sick pay, and vacation time are all benefits that the employer does not necessarily have to give its employees.

Are you working the entire 16 hours you are at your job? An employer can't require you to be there for 16 hours and not pay you for your time. I can see if they allow you to come and go when you please and the time you actually work only adds up to 8 hours... but if you're required to be on the premises and work at the drop of a hat, that must be compensated time. As far as I know it doesn't matter if they're non-profit or not.

I also find it hard to believe your friend is "donating" 32 hours. If they are required to be at work for 4-16 hour shifts, they should be getting paid for 64 hours.

I'll wait for someone else to come along and confirm... or prove me wrong.:)

Thank you for responding. I am not certain how they are getting away with "not" paying employees for all the hours they work. It was my opinion that if your there and required to be there, you should be paid for all hours that you work. I have worked for the better part of 40 years and this is a first for me.

Both of the other employee's are lifetime friends of mine. The one that works the 64 hours and gets paid for 32 hours is also required to "volunteer' additional hours to do things like paint ceilings, mow the lawn, weed the garden, fill in for the "full-time" manager that is paid for every hour she works. The full-time manager is actually receiving the pay for the hours that my friend is working for her.

My other friend that works there starts her shift at 7:45 AM on Saturdays and gets off at 7:45 AM on Monday morning. Although she is required to be at the job for 48 hours, she is only paid for 32 hours.

Since the subject has changed here, from wrongful discharge to wage descrimination I wonder if I shouldn't start a new thread?

Thank you for you reply.
Cassandra

Speaking on behalf of non-profits, we are not exempt from labor laws, especially the requirement to pay people for all hours worked! (the exception being for Exempt people like me who stay late)

What kind of organization is it anyway? My old company had "sleep hours" too, for overnight staff in residential programs. But the staff were paid for the sleep hours, just at a lower rate than for "awake hours," and never below min wage.

I can't imagine anyone accepting or staying at a job under those conditions.

Actually its a not for profit and I am NO longer there. Was told that I am just not available enough to volunteer enough time at the house to make the manager happy and was let go. I have the full job description from job service from when I applied for this position, not once does it mention that I would have to set by my phone so that I could be called to either come in a volunteer what the manager qualifies as "enough" volunteer time or that I would have to agree to be on 24 hour call 7 days a week to volunteer to take other persons shifts for no pay.

I may be gone, but feel like they are doing a great injustice to my friends by not paying them for the hours that they are required to work.

Your probably asking yourself, well why did she take the job in the first place. Well I will tell you, the friend that works four (4) sixteen hour shifts for 32 hours pay was working five (5) 16 hour shifts and being paid for 40 hours. Plus having to "volunteer" additional time. She got into trouble about a year ago and is on probation for a minor offense. All the manager has to do is call her probation officer and state that she is refusing work. Then she is in immediate danger or violating her probation. The manager knows this, and takes full advantage of it.

She asked the manager to cut her regular scheduled hours or her "volunteer" time back. The manager agreed to cut it back one "paid" shift if she could find someone. Once the manager placed the call to the Job Service, I immediately applied for it. I am retired after a 25 year career with Bechtel Corp. as, and you will find this funny, a payroll accountant. I didn't need the money or the job, but my friend desperately needed both some time off and to be able to keep her job. Plus, I really enjoy getting out of the house for a change of scenery. Its nice to feel like you still contribute to society.

Unfortunately, what can seem like a perfectly peaceful second 8 hours of the shift. You know your "sleep" time can turn upside down very quickly. The hospital can call at any moment with either family members, or medical staff that needs to come into the house immediately. When they arrive you will need to get them settled, more than likely get them something to eat, and above all be available just to listen to their problems. None of this is the point though, you are there to serve and serve you will, thats if you have any compassion left.

My entire point in asking if this is legal, is that I still have 2 friends working there, that I believe are being critically abused wage wise. Friend #1 cannot quit the job without serious repercussions. Friend #2 desperately needs the money and its her second job. She works a regular 40 hour week before she puts in her 48 hours at the house, has two medically needy children and a totally disabled husband and is doing her darndest to care for them.

Obviously neither of these individuals is in the position to rock the boat there. I am no longer there so what does it matter if I try to find some help for these individuals if in fact it exists. Its hard for me to believe that our state and/or federal governments would find this acceptable.

Unfortunately, even with well over 25 years of payroll experience, it was all union payroll. Not only did we meet and or exceed all state, federal and foreign payroll guidelines but adherred strictly to all of the negotiated union wage rules as well.

Four months ago, this is before I started. The old manager had given these two individuals raises and allowed them to accrue 3/4 of a day sick leave and paid vacation time per month. The new manager took the raise's and all accruel of sick pay and vacation time away. Simply told the employee's that the board of directors hadn't approved them. Yet board members sign the paychecks?

Again, anyone that can point me in the right direction to find the laws to help my friends with this situation, your time will be greatfully appreciated.

Thank You
Cassandra

You should remove the name of your ex-employer from your post. It is against the forum rules to list specific entities here. It's for your safety and the safety of your friends who also worked there.

Okay, before I forget to ask, were you a part of the union? Are you friends a part of a union? The answer to this may make a HUGE difference in how you work with this.

If you're not in a union:

What you want to do is contact Montana's department of Labor & Industry. This is the link to the page that gives you numbers and email addresses:

http://erd.dli.mt.gov/laborstandard/contactus.asp

Then, tell your friends to do the same thing. Get a claim rolling for all the time you had worked and didn't get paid for. Hopefully you have records or witnesses of when and how long you worked. And when I say hours you worked, I mean hours that they required you to be at work (sleeping or not) or any time you were required to do work-related things.

Your friends shouldn't be retaliated against for making a claim, but if they are, then their employer will be in even more trouble because that is illegal.

I have to say that it is very disappointing to know that an employer as large as that is not paying employees the way it should, when it's so painfully obvious that what they're doing is illegal.

If you have any more questions, let us know. There are probably more members here who can answer more thoroughly than myself.

Julie, thank you for informing me that I needed to edit out part of my post. I have taken care of it and appreciate your insight and time.

No we were never affiliated with a union.

Thanks again!

Cassandra

Good luck with everything!! Hopefully you and your friends will get what is rightfully yours!

Keep us updated if you remember! :)

Where's Patty?
JoeC

Again Joe your time is always valued. Do I need to hire an attorney to send a letter to request arbitration or however you spell that?

Thank You :)
Cassandra

I don't know if you were cheated out of any money,I'm waiting for Patty she is our payroll clerk that has all the payroll answerers,not me. As far as a suite for wrongfull termination you don't have one.
JoeC

There I go, getting called a "payroll clerk" again. ;) :rolleyes:

Honestly, I really can't add much to the previous responses unless I know exactly what your job duties were. Can you also provide details of how you were paid in an average work week?

Unfortunately, the state DLI (their DOL) site is down at the moment, so I can't check on whether a "termination letter" is required.

Patty

Thank you for replying.

Here is a copy of the job description that was posted at the Montana State Job Service.

Open until filled. Weeknight employee is responsible for operating and managing the. "The name of the business was here and I removed it", in accordance with the policies and procedures. Will be responsible for promoting a positive progressive image of the Home, register guests, collect room fees, keep written log of the shift's activities, keep home neat and clean, record memorials, donations and acknowledgements, record house statistics, assist with fundraising activities, supervise volunteers & perform other duties as assigned. Must have a high school diploma or equivalent. Employer prefers some college, one to two years experience in counseling, health care or managing a group home & fundraising experience. Must possess good human relations skills, communicate effectively, be a good listener & have knowledge of Access, Excel and Word. Position is part-time, 1 evening shift defined as 3:45 pm to 7:45 am, ideally Friday but employer can be somewhat flexible as to which night, with an average of 8 hours sleep time. Wage is $53.00/shift.
Open Date 4/11/2007 Close Date
Experience
Education Degree Required High School Diploma

Skills
Shift Swing, Graveyard
Availability Part
Days Off Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Sat, Sun
Openings 1 Work Schedule

Again thank you for your time!

For some reason, I wasn't thinking. :) You may be considered exempt by the federal guidelines (I don't know for sure... I'll let Patty handle that).

BUT, even if you are exempt, you are still not even making the federal minimum of $455 a week that must be made by exempts. You would need to work over 8 shifts at 16 hours each to reach that minimum. In fact, if you're only being paid $53 for working 16 hours, you're not even making minimum wage.

I still suggest calling the state's DLI and speaking with someone about it. Whether you're exempt or non-exempt, they still owe you money.

Unless there's a caveat I'm missing that involves the type of work you did...

Patty what about this part ?:
In response to your question on how time is donated. Montana states minimum wage is $6.15 per hour. If you work a 16 hour shift and you get paid $53.00 for the 16 hours you would have to be donating 8 hours of the shift right? And, yes my guess is that it is a non-profit organization. The manager is salaried and works 40 hours per week, receives vacation pay, health insurance, accrued sick days.

The other three employees, one works 4 shifts that are each 16 hours long, and is paid $56.00 per shift. The second employee works 1 shift that is 48 hours and is paid for 4 shifts at the rate of $60.00 per shift. Then the 3rd person works one 16 hour shift. In other words you are there, but supposedly sleeping or doing your own thing for 8 hours of every shift. Your assigned chores easily take up the full 8 hours that are paid. Your only responsibility during the other 8 hours is to be fully available to take people in and assign them rooms, get them settled, take phone calls, and be fully responsible for the business operations. These individuals have no benefits at all. No health insurance, no accrued sick leave, no accrued vacation time.

If the time is not paid, then wouldn't it be considered donated? After all you cannot leave the premises. If not donated then what would it be considered please?


The extra 8 hours of each shift is referred to as "sleep time" by the employer. There is a separate apartment within the building for the use of the employees and yes there is a bedroom with a bed. To the best of my knowledge that bed has not even had sheets on it for over a year.
I never heard of any thing like it. Donated time???
JoeC

What type of home is this? Is it a hospice? It's hard to tell from the posts.

Anyway, unless the employees are Exempt (which from the other posts, it looks doubtful) I don't understand how people can be required to work for free:confused: . The situation with the OP's friend actually sounds like extortion (work these crazy hours for free or I call you PO and tell him you're refusing to work).

Again, even if the donated hours are "sleep hours" they should be paid for sleep hours, at least at minimum wage.

Is there some strange Montana law allowing indentured servitude?

Patty what about this part ?:

I never heard of any thing like it. Donated time???
JoeC

Joe, I believe the OP was told that she needed to "donate" her time by her employer, when in fact she was still working as an employee and needed to be compensated for her work. I think the employer just wanted an easy out...

I've never heard of "donated time" either. :confused:

What type of home is this? Is it a hospice? It's hard to tell from the posts.

Anyway, unless the employees are Exempt (which from the other posts, it looks doubtful) I don't understand how people can be required to work for free:confused: . The situation with the OP's friend actually sounds like extortion (work these crazy hours for free or I call you PO and tell him you're refusing to work).

Again, even if the donated hours are "sleep hours" they should be paid for sleep hours, at least at minimum wage.

Is there some strange Montana law allowing indentured servitude?

In regards to your question of what type of home is this?

Without saying the actual name of the home, I will explain what their purpose is. They are located nationwide and serve people that have family members in a hospital, rest home, or in any kind of in-patient care. They also serve traveling nurse's and doctors. Its a place for them to stay at a very reduced rate ($15.00) in comparison to what a hotel or motel would cost. The majority of the persons that stay there are actually the traveling nurses and doctors.

There are times that people that are traveling into the city for chemo or dialysis and need to stay over night are referred. By the way all persons that stay there have to be referred by a nurse or a doctor. I guess the doctors and nurses refer themselves?

I have sent and email to the Montana DOL, but have not received a reply.

Thank you again!

Just give them time. The DIL works with the entire state, so it may take somet time for them to get back to you.

In the meantime, you may want to get all of your documentation together in case there is an investigation.

Thanks Again Julie!

I was just contacted by the DOL. Everyone that stated that the person has to be paid for the "sleep time" is absolutely correct. In addition, because we are all considered employee's, in my case should say was. Even the volunteer hours that were required in order to keep our jobs are payable.

The person from DOL also informed me that because the employer did not state that "sleep time" would be paid at a reduced rate, meaning atleast minimum wage, they would have to paid at the established hourly rate.

This in fact means very little to me wage wise, right around $1,000.00. But my entire purpose of all of this will be served by all of your knowledge and encouragement. Both of the other employee's should receive between $6-7000.00 in back wages just considering the regular shifts they worked in the last year that I know of. They will also be compensated for "volunteer" time if they have kept records of it. That's "if" they file their own claim with the state.

The DOL stated that if I was willing to go ahead and file the claim. In this case Jo, be the whistle blower :). They could only recover my wages and not the other employee's, all they can do is contact the business and demand that they rectify their payroll method. Which seems fair enough, I can open the door to fairness for the other employee's, but I can't drag them through it.

I took the time to explain what was happening to my one friend, the one on probation to this same person from DOL. The person informed me that this could be construed as extortion, and that even if the person wasn't willing to file for back wages should atleast contact them immediately in regards to this matter.

God Bless You All!

You have done a great kindness for two persons that couldn't need help more.

I am very happy this worked out for you. The DOL is correct, only your friend can get her money and the most you can do is suggest she call the DOL. Hopefully she will, and she will get what is hers.

Congratulations and I hope everything works out. :)

I'm glad this seems to be working out in favor of these employees who have been abused.

I hope that all those people who say that everyone on this website is just trying to "play lawyer," or that we make things up that we know nothing about, reads this thread and sees that:

1. We were essentially correct in the advice we gave
2. We actually helped some people

I'm glad this seems to be working out in favor of these employees who have been abused.

I hope that all those people who say that everyone on this website is just trying to "play lawyer," or that we make things up that we know nothing about, reads this thread and sees that:

1. We were essentially correct in the advice we gave
2. We actually helped some people

Amen to that, TSC! ;)

And I'm in HR. No one can say all HR workers are only pro-company! (I get so irritated when people say that) :D

Julie, I have also been accused (on this site) of being pro-employer, anti-worker, and even a poster child for why the AFL-CIO was created.

[Hmmm, maybe I'll tell my lazy good for nothing employees about the poor people in Montana who had to work for free as a way to "crack the whip" and keep them in line.]

Oh, I guess that sounded a little pro-company, huh? :D



(JoeC: by the way, I was being sarcastic. We are actually on the same side on this one!)

Amen to that, TSC! ;)

And I'm in HR. No one can say all HR workers are only pro-company! (I get so irritated when people say that) :D

Neither are the Payroll and Compliance Managers. :D

We just calls 'em as we sees 'em.

I think a lot of times people translate, "No, that is not illegal" as, "I approve of what your employer is doing" which is not even remotely always the case.

Unfortunately we as messengers get blamed for what the law says or doesn't say. We don't write the laws or vote on their passage, but we're on the front lines giving the information so we take the heat.

You take the heat because the information you give is incorrect.

You take the heat because the information you give is incorrect.


I notice you did NOT try to claim that any of the response given in this post was incorrect. This is your first response in this thread. OTOH, why did I even respond to it? :rolleyes: :eek:

All right, stiffnecked, spell it out. What information in this thread is incorrect? Give statute numbers, cite case law.

If your only contribution to this site is going to be to make claims that everyone else is incorrect, you're going to have to start putting your money where your mouth is. From this point on, if you believe the information provided is incorrect, you're going to have to prove it.

And citing a definition of the "breach of contract" definition of wrongful term is not going to be enough. You're going to have to show us how it applies in terms of each and every post.

You're not happy with the credibility of the posters here? Fine. But if you aren't able to do anything but say, "you're wrong", what kind of credibility does that give you?

For some reason, I wasn't thinking. :) You may be considered exempt by the federal guidelines (I don't know for sure... I'll let Patty handle that).

BUT, even if you are exempt, you are still not even making the federal minimum of $455 a week that must be made by exempts. You would need to work over 8 shifts at 16 hours each to reach that minimum. In fact, if you're only being paid $53 for working 16 hours, you're not even making minimum wage.

I still suggest calling the state's DLI and speaking with someone about it. Whether you're exempt or non-exempt, they still owe you money.

Unless there's a caveat I'm missing that involves the type of work you did...

Believe it or not I finally got a reply to my email to the DOL last week. Here is the response as far as Montana being an "at will" state. It makes no difference but no Montana is not an "at will" state.
I apologize for the delay in responding.

To first clarify a few issues, Montana is not an “at will” state, however, the employer can terminate for any or for no reason within the probationary period. Outside of the probationary period, the employer has to establish good cause or a legitimate business reason for the termination to avoid a wrongful discharge suit.

For payment of wages, an employer can deduct sleep time from wages if you are on a shift of 24 hours or more. This can occur only if you are given adequate sleeping accommodations and you receive at least 5 hours of sleep and the employer can deduct no more than 8 hours per 24 hour shift. So in the scenario, if you are truly sleeping for the 8 hours, then the employer is not obligated by law to compensate you for that time. (I have attached that regulation for your reference) For your additional concern regarding minimum wage; you are correct that the employer is obligated to compensate at least minimum wage for all hours worked unless you fall under one of the exemptions which I have also attached for your reference.

If you have any further questions or concerns, feel free to contact me.


Compliance Specialist
Department of Labor & Industry
Wage & Hour Unit

Furthermore this person also attached the Montana state law on what is classified as "sleep" time. As far as having answered my question as to whether or not I should have been paid, it didn't happen directly by this person. I hate to try and assume because my shift wasn't 24 hours, nor is friend #1's that we should have both been paid for the full 16 hours that we worked.

Will you guys take a look at this information and translate it into something I can understand?

ADMINISTRATIVE RULES OF MONTANA (ARM)

24.16.1007 SLEEPING TIME AND CERTAIN OTHER ACTIVITIES
(1) General. Under certain conditions an employee is considered to be working even though some of his time is spent in sleeping or in certain other activities.
(2) Less than 24 hour duty. An employee who is required to be on duty for less than 24 hours is working even though he is permitted to sleep or engage in other personal activities when not busy. A telephone operator, for example, who is required to be on duty for specified hours is working even though she is permitted to sleep when not busy answering calls. It makes no difference that she is furnished facilities for sleeping. Her time is given to her employer. She is required to be on duty and the time is worktime.
(3) Duty of 24 hours or more.
(a) General. Where an employee is required to be on duty for 24 hours or more, the employer and the employee may agree to exclude bona fide meal periods and a bona fide regularly scheduled sleeping period of not more than 8 hours from hours worked, provided adequate sleeping facilities are furnished by the employer and the employee can usually enjoy an uninterrupted night's sleep. If sleeping period is of more than 8 hours, only 8 hours will be credited. Where no expressed or implied agreement to the contrary is present, the 8 hours of sleeping time and lunch periods constitute hours worked.
(b) Interruptions of sleep. If the sleeping period is interrupted by a call to duty, the interruption must be counted as hours worked. If the period is interrupted to such an extent that the employee cannot get a reasonable night's sleep, the entire period must be counted. For enforcement purposes, the Divisions have adopted the rule that if the employee cannot get at least 5 hours sleep during the scheduled period the entire time is working time.
(4) Employees residing on employer's premises or working at home. An employee who resides on his employer's premises on a permanent basis or for extended periods of time is not considered as working all the time he is on the premises. Ordinarily, he may engage in normal private pursuits and thus have enough time for eating, sleeping, entertaining, and other periods of complete freedom from all duties when he may leave the premises for purposes of his own. It is of course difficult to determine the exact hours worked under these circumstances and any reasonable agreement of the parties which takes into consideration all of the pertinent facts will be accepted. This rule would apply, for example, to the pumper of a stripper well who resides on the premises of his employer and also to a telephone operator who has the switchboard in her own home. (History: Sec. 39-3-403, MCA; IMP, Sec. 39-3-404 & 405, MCA; Eff. 12/31/72.)

When I read this specific law, it says to me that both myself and the person that works the five 16 hour shifts are both entitled to be paid in full for those 16 hours. But who knows, I am generally on my side anyways.

Thank you all :)

please remove the name, number, address and email address of your contact.

Not fair to spam them on the message boards.

The way I read it, # 2 applies to you. Your shift is/was under 24 hours (16 hours) and even though you are permitted to sleep, you are still on work time, and you must be paid.

To me, the termination and at-will stuff is not the issue here. The issue is that the workers are only paid 8 hours when they work 16 hours. And when one decided to complain or tried to leave, the supervisor blackmailed her by saying "I'll tell your PO you are refusing to work, and you'll go to jail."

The 3 (probably) illegal things are:
1. Not paying people for time worked
2. Threatening retaliation if they blow the whistle on #1
3. The supervisor's extortion of the employee who is on probation/parole.

please remove the name, number, address and email address of your contact.

Not fair to spam them on the message boards.

Sorry about that, didn't realize was spaming a public employee. I have removed it and appreciate your input.

Thanks for posting that from the state labor board that adds clarity.
JoeC

I am very happy this worked out for you. The DOL is correct, only your friend can get her money and the most you can do is suggest she call the DOL. Hopefully she will, and she will get what is hers.

Congratulations and I hope everything works out. :)

Sorry to say, it was a complete failure. I guess that Montanas' minimum wage meant "nothing" in this particular instance. Received notice from them today and it is acceptable to pay $4.00 per hour under the federal law to "indentured servants". What a joke this state is. They do of course owe me a "little" money but the laugh is on us slaves.

Its a sad day for all of us.

I guess all we can do is spread the word to our e-mail lists, urging people to not donate to this particular charity, and to write letters to the corporate office saying we are appalled by how they treat their Montana employees.

Can't give the name, but...
The Op's former employer is a well-known charity that is an outgrowth of a famous fast food company, with houses named after a clown. They offer low cost hotel accomodations to families of people in hospitals with serious illnesses.
That ought to be enough to figure it out. You can do a search for their contact info.

I'll write my letter this week and share copies with my e-mail list, so they can all use it as a template. Hopefully more people will do the same.

unfortunately this particular branded house accomodates doctors for $15.00 a night and family members of the board of directors for free.......its a total sham...A bigger lie has never been told than by these people.

Oh my Gosh, you have got to be kidding! :mad: What federal law includes anything about indentured servants? Yes, I am very serious someone please set me straight. I thought slavery was abolished a long, long, long, time ago.

To advertise the way they do and collect the donations one would think that these facilites are specifically for the patients and their families. The doctors pay the big $15.00/night while the patients family's get to pay for over priced motel/hotel rooms. And the BOD's families pay nothing! What a crock of crap! :mad: . This seems to be more like false advertising and fraud of soliciting donations to me.

It so happens that past fall my sister in Utah gell gravely ill. I flew out and stayed at the hospital with her for over two weeks. The hospital had a similar facility, (privately owned by the hospital), just across the street. It wasn't until the 9th day that a room became available @ $25.00/day but I was grateful to have it, especially compared to the $90.00/night motels in the area. Not to mention I was 5 minutes from her room not a 1/2 hour drive away. The only people allowed to rent these rooms was family members of patients in critical care or the ICU. They certainly did not offer them to doctors/nurses nor BOD's families.

I don't frequent the junk food joint envolved here but on a very rare occasion but as far as I am concerned they can keep there billion burgers sold and I'll keep my pennies in my pocket. This has simply got to be exposed on a national level. I understand this may not be the norm nation wide but even one facility taking advantage of people, employees, potential guests, and the people that donate to support them in this way is completely unacceptable. This facility is sponsered by the Mother of all fast food joints and donations are collected daily for these houses. I am appalled to learn of this, knowing they advertise the way they do and make out like they are available just for the families and patients.

Have you contacted the corporate headquarters of this fast food joint and told them what is going on at the HOUSE in Montanta? I would be interested in knowing if you do what they have to say about the situation in your town.

If there is any way that you can get this exposed so that we here as well as those we know can assist in a nationwide boycot of some sort I would be more than happy to spearhead the effort here in my area. This has really caused my blood to boil like nothing I have heard in a very long time. Gurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets not overreact about the whole organization because of 1 place.

We dont know that this is a widespread practice and we dont know that it is condoned.

My best friend had a child with cancer and used this organization's facilities and she raved about them, the staff, and thought it was great.

While I agree that the treatment in this one location in Montana is wrong and illegal, we dont know that it happens anywhere else.

I have to agree with you, there have been people that stayed at the house that actually had someone in the hospital. They were treated wonderfully by the staff and their stay was rewarding to both themselves and to us as their hosts.

Unfortunately this is not just about the money the employee's "don't" make, it goes much further than that. Its about how the under paid employee's are treated as well. And, yes I would venture to guess that this may be an isolated case.

The general manager denies that they are fully affiliated with McDonald's Family Place foundation and they only use the McDonald Family place logo where it will garner them funds for the continuation of the business. I.E. fund raising events, memorials, volunteer work etc.