Please excuse me if I ramble a bit. I am just upset and have been going through this for five freaking years now and it's just ridiculous.

This is the deal. MY grandparents, my daughter's GREAT grandparents have wanted custody of my daughter for years (just like they did with me when I was a child and my brother as well) This is an ongoing totally screwed up family tradition with these people. I have been on trial not once but twice over them trying to say I am an unfit parent. I have won both times because their claims were unfounded. The first time they were awarded partial custody for visitation on alternate weekends. The second time, 2years later, the judge gave them one overnight per month. The court order was worded that it was "visitation rights" with no mention of partial custody. blah blah blah...

Since then I have followed the order consistently. My daughter began to refuse visits last July and I began to accompany her to their home from August through December. I gave birth to my third child Dec 4th.
Jan and February visits were as scheduled but then in March dd again refused and so they came here to spend the day. After dinner my grandmother started in on her usual "I have a right to talk to her" My daughter is almost 13 and has her own cell phone that they call. She doesn't want to talk to them and there is nothing in the court order that outlines any phone contact. It is up to her whether she answers the phone or not. I try to make her talk to them one a week though. Anywho... I told my grandmother to call her phone and if she wants to talk she will. First of all the woman is not right but she started yelling at me and saying I am "holding a gun to her [my dd] head" and started poking me really hard in the forehead. I was also holding my then 3 mo son.
It happened outside my door so I just went in. She was right behind me screaming and I shut the door in her face. I called the police to file a report as well. Let me just say that these are not sweet little old people. They are ruthless when it comes to getting what the want and my daughter is merely a piece of property to them. That was just a bit of background.

In January I contacted my attorney and told him I wanted to file for leave of court to move to Washington State to be near my mother. I am in a two year housing option and my lease is up August 3rd. I told my attorney this in JANUARY. A few weeks go by and I didn't hear from him so I call and leave message after message for another few weeks. Finally, after calling and leaving a message to let him know of the altercation at my house and the police report he calls me back at 11:30pm and asks me if I still plan to move??? I am like WTF. Says he will get it done in the next week.
Fastforward to May. I have been calling and emailing just trying to get some sort of a response from him about what the status is on the petition. I get a callMonday May21st from his assistant that he is only just presenting to the judge that Friday!!! I am so stressed and this is just BS. I ahve been after him for months to get this taken care of. I get a call from him a couple days ago that this is going to be tough and my mom will have to pay for the great grandparents to come to Washington for visits. Not only that but the biggest BS is that my court date isn't until August 14th. I am so freaking mad.

What I would like to know is this....This case is not between two parents.
I am on every waiting list for housing here but it is literally years before you can get in. Section 8 is closed. I am going to be on the mercy of the housing I am in for an extension until this is resolved. The only thing I could afford is in neighborhoods that I would certainly NOT expose my children to. No reliable affordable child care no transportation. In Washington with my mother, I will have FREE, reliable child care, safe housing out of the city that my mom will provide for me, use of safe and reliable transportation, immediate employment that will accomodate my infant at work in the office (I breastfeed so this is ideal) I will have my mom and my children have a right to know their grandmother!!! What constitutes what is best for the child???
This will be a great opportunity for us as a FAMILY. I have 2 other children and the court already stated that they think it is important for siblings to be raised together. If they are giving GREAT parents any rights at all why is my mother not recognised as being an important person in the child's life as well. She is close with her and we lived near her in CO for ahile and during the first trial my dd actually stayed in CO with my mom for the school year while I battled it out in PA.

I don't know...if you made it this far Thanks. What do you think my chances are of being able to go?

I would say you have excellent chances of going- there is no reason for the courts to award the child to the gp's and they really can't tell YOU where to live...

That was my first thought reading through your thread, move away, far away, and for god's sake, please quite having babies you cannot afford

I'm not saying that to be mean but jeez louise...life keeps getting harder the more kids you have

Point taken about the kids.

However, I really need to focus on the legal aspects of my post.
Can anyone give me the official legal definition of "best interest of the child"?

Point taken about the kids.

However, I really need to focus on the legal aspects of my post.
Can anyone give me the official legal definition of "best interest of the child"?

Unfortunately, there isn't a single specific definition for the term "best interest of the child". That is very subjective and actually decided on each case's specific facts, along with whatever that particular Judge's views are. What is considered to be "best interests" in one case can be vastly different than another even similar case. I wish it were simple to determine, but it's not.

For a situation like yours, the best thing to do is to gather all evidence of how the children will be better off with you than the GPs. Collect data on differences in the schools, crime in each area, friendships the kids have, etc. Use anything you can think of to prove that your kids are better off with you.

Unfortunately, there isn't a single specific definition for the term "best interest of the child". That is very subjective and actually decided on each case's specific facts, along with whatever that particular Judge's views are. What is considered to be "best interests" in one case can be vastly different than another even similar case. I wish it were simple to determine, but it's not.

For a situation like yours, the best thing to do is to gather all evidence of how the children will be better off with you than the GPs. Collect data on differences in the schools, crime in each area, friendships the kids have, etc. Use anything you can think of to prove that your kids are better off with you.

I'm not even sure she needs to do that much does she? a parent is free to determine the location where there children will reside, the gp's visitation will need to be modified (hopefully rescinded) but they have not filed a motion for custody and to do so after the notie of intent to move would surely cast doubt on any claims of unfitness they might bring....

I'm not even sure she needs to do that much does she? a parent is free to determine the location where there children will reside, the gp's visitation will need to be modified (hopefully rescinded) but they have not filed a motion for custody and to do so after the notie of intent to move would surely cast doubt on any claims of unfitness they might bring....

I think that in a normal case the parent wouldn't need to do all of that. However, in the OP's case it concerns me that the Judge had already given the GP's temp custody over a natural parent. I may be wrong, but it gives the indication that the Judge will be a little more inclined to give the GP's more rights and say so than they really should have. My guess is that the Judge is either biased, or there are other things involved that the OP hasn't mentioned. Either way, it's always better to have documents/evidence and not need them, than to need them and not have them available.

I think that in a normal case the parent wouldn't need to do all of that. However, in the OP's case it concerns me that the Judge had already given the GP's temp custody over a natural parent. I may be wrong, but it gives the indication that the Judge will be a little more inclined to give the GP's more rights and say so than they really should have. My guess is that the Judge is either biased, or there are other things involved that the OP hasn't mentioned. Either way, it's always better to have documents/evidence and not need them, than to need them and not have them available.

oh absolutely!

This hearing is "supposed" to be about leave of court. Not an issue of who retains custody. I have been through that battle twice and have prevailed on both occasions. Both times there was a different judge. Now there is yet another judge handling this motion.
I guess my problem is that I just don't understand how their rights can supercede that of a parent (me!) Why the courts allow them & their desire to take control over my child to take precedence over me being able to provide the best possible environment for my children. My gp's have told me on numerous occasions to "go and move. You can but we won't let you take your child. She will have to stay with us" They really are just using the courts as a means to bully me into submission.
They have no grounds for what they have done. I don't have D&A issues. I've never abused my child. They made a big deal over my working as a bartender and said it was "an unseemly career choice for a mother" Frankly, that is none of their damn business! I work, I pay my bills and I provide for my kids. AND I make more money in my 3 days a week job from 8pm to 3am than I ever did busting my butt 40 hours a week in the daily grind. I have so much more time to be involved with my kids with that job!
My grandparents and it would seem the court as well have forgotten that this is America and we all have a choice. I don't have to fit some picture perfect mold of what they think is "how a mother should be" What matters is that I do what's best for my kids always. The truth is that different things work for different people and god forbid I should be independent and thrive while being somewhat unconventional!
*another little vent there :)

no worries:)


basically it should be- your grandparents (and xena- do great grands have the same protections through gpv as regular grand parents?) will have to convince the court to change custody if they want to prevent the children from being moved

in parent to parent- if the cp wants to move and the ncp does not, it often boils down to, if the court is willing to give custody to the ncp... so under that view- your gps are kinda screwed, cause I have never heard of a court order someone to live in a specific area....

you may be responsible for transport for the child to see the gp's though



what exactly do your court orders say?