Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th
percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one
point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid,
bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school
he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7
boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward
the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was
liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and
from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit
shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he
is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert!

So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more
than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I
said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little
dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l"
word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He
is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his
friends.

Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a
liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in
school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)).
Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him?

Sheila

I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some
aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young
person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,
that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.

i

I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some
aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young
person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,
that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.

i

>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i

His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to please
his dad.

Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus side of
his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-)

Sheila

>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i

His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to please
his dad.

Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus side of
his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-)

Sheila

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember
one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good
kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle
school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6
or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended
toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he
was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to
and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a
bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him
that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and
more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For
instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a
little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the
"l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker.
He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest
kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"!
;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

How tall is he? truly noticeably shorter than most of the other kids in his
class?
I also have a 14-yr-old (well, he'll be 15 next month) . He happens to be 6
feet tall though. I don't think he and his friends segregate each other
according to height. Among the kids in his grade, there is a *huge*
variation in height, weight , etc. If you're cool, you're cool.
I'd not mention it or make an issue about his height. There isn't really
much you can do about it anyway.

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember
one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good
kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle
school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6
or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended
toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he
was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to
and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a
bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him
that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and
more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For
instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a
little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the
"l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker.
He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest
kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"!
;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

How tall is he? truly noticeably shorter than most of the other kids in his
class?
I also have a 14-yr-old (well, he'll be 15 next month) . He happens to be 6
feet tall though. I don't think he and his friends segregate each other
according to height. Among the kids in his grade, there is a *huge*
variation in height, weight , etc. If you're cool, you're cool.
I'd not mention it or make an issue about his height. There isn't really
much you can do about it anyway.

>> Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I rememberone point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a goodkid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middleschool he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tendedtoward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, hewas liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk toand from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is abit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease himthat he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, andmore than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. Forinstance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be alittle dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the"l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker.He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniestkid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"!;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? SheilaHow tall is he? truly noticeably shorter than most of the other kids in hisclass?I also have a 14-yr-old (well, he'll be 15 next month) . He happens to be 6feet tall though. I don't think he and his friends segregate each otheraccording to height. Among the kids in his grade, there is a *huge*variation in height, weight , etc. If you're cool, you're cool.I'd not mention it or make an issue about his height. There isn't reallymuch you can do about it anyway.

He's about 5 feet, I think. There are probably only 5 or 6 kids in his grade
that were shorter than him. We seem to grow 'em big in our neighborhood! I'm
5'4 and a half, and almost all of them were much taller than me!

I don't think the issue is as much the other kids, at least the ones he know,
as his view of himself.

Sheila

>> Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I rememberone point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a goodkid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middleschool he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tendedtoward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, hewas liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk toand from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is abit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease himthat he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, andmore than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. Forinstance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be alittle dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the"l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker.He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniestkid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"!;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? SheilaHow tall is he? truly noticeably shorter than most of the other kids in hisclass?I also have a 14-yr-old (well, he'll be 15 next month) . He happens to be 6feet tall though. I don't think he and his friends segregate each otheraccording to height. Among the kids in his grade, there is a *huge*variation in height, weight , etc. If you're cool, you're cool.I'd not mention it or make an issue about his height. There isn't reallymuch you can do about it anyway.

He's about 5 feet, I think. There are probably only 5 or 6 kids in his grade
that were shorter than him. We seem to grow 'em big in our neighborhood! I'm
5'4 and a half, and almost all of them were much taller than me!

I don't think the issue is as much the other kids, at least the ones he know,
as his view of himself.

Sheila

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com...I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to
please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus side
of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-)

Martial arts, perhaps? Very good confidence builder.

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com...I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to
please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus side
of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-)

Martial arts, perhaps? Very good confidence builder.

In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus side of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila

Well, that's great if he likes it!

i

In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus side of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila

Well, that's great if he likes it!

i

"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message
news:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to
please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus
side of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it!

Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so his
size might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it.

"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message
news:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least someaspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong youngperson, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it to
please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plus
side of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it!

Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so his
size might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it.

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember
one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good
kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle
school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6
or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended
toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he
was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to
and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a
bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him
that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert!

Sheila, your son is incredibly similar to my nephew, who turns 16 next
month. He has also always been at 5th% or less, he's a skinny guy, and very
short. His older brother was short for a while but did get a growth spurt,
but DN (dear nephew) never has. He's likely to be very short as an adult.
He's also bright, polite, a total gamer, big into reading.

I don't have advice necessarily, but I hope it will be comforting to you if
I tell you that being short bothered DN personally for a while, but it
didn't affect in his opinion how others treated him. The girls all think
he's sooooooooooo cute, lol, and the guys think he's a decent human
being...the guys who wouldn't, I guess, don't get much of a second look by
DN, nor anything in return.

DN starts 11th grade next month, and he's adapted very well to high school.
I doubt he's much taller than 5'...maybe by an inch or so. He does go to a
small magnet high school, but kids are kids everywhere, and it is a public
school with local students of all heights, weights, and teenage temperament.
;-)

What would probably really help your son is to stay in touch during the
summer with a friend or two or more, so there's someone to know at the new
school. There are so many opportunities for involvement in high school, and
finding himself a place where he feels comfortable (gaming club, chess club,
computer club, whatever) would, IMO, help him feel comfortable in his body.

Anyway, he's a cutie. :-) From what I know from SD17, that matters more
than height!

Jennifer

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember
one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good
kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle
school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6
or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended
toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he
was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to
and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a
bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him
that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert!

Sheila, your son is incredibly similar to my nephew, who turns 16 next
month. He has also always been at 5th% or less, he's a skinny guy, and very
short. His older brother was short for a while but did get a growth spurt,
but DN (dear nephew) never has. He's likely to be very short as an adult.
He's also bright, polite, a total gamer, big into reading.

I don't have advice necessarily, but I hope it will be comforting to you if
I tell you that being short bothered DN personally for a while, but it
didn't affect in his opinion how others treated him. The girls all think
he's sooooooooooo cute, lol, and the guys think he's a decent human
being...the guys who wouldn't, I guess, don't get much of a second look by
DN, nor anything in return.

DN starts 11th grade next month, and he's adapted very well to high school.
I doubt he's much taller than 5'...maybe by an inch or so. He does go to a
small magnet high school, but kids are kids everywhere, and it is a public
school with local students of all heights, weights, and teenage temperament.
;-)

What would probably really help your son is to stay in touch during the
summer with a friend or two or more, so there's someone to know at the new
school. There are so many opportunities for involvement in high school, and
finding himself a place where he feels comfortable (gaming club, chess club,
computer club, whatever) would, IMO, help him feel comfortable in his body.

Anyway, he's a cutie. :-) From what I know from SD17, that matters more
than height!

Jennifer

>"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in messagenews:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some>aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young>person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,>that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.>>i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it toplease his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plusside of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it!Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so hissize might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it.

While I understand what you and Igor are saying, basically, DS is *not* a
particularly physical kid. He enjoys fencing because there is a
historical/fantastical element to it (his dad says they might join SCA this
year), but he's never even been the type to wrestle for fun --- much less for
sport!

Sheila

>"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in messagenews:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some>aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young>person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,>that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought.>>i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it toplease his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plusside of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it!Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so hissize might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it.

While I understand what you and Igor are saying, basically, DS is *not* a
particularly physical kid. He enjoys fencing because there is a
historical/fantastical element to it (his dad says they might join SCA this
year), but he's never even been the type to wrestle for fun --- much less for
sport!

Sheila

In article <20040804231257.11031.00002787@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in messagenews:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote: >>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some >>aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young >>person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested, >>that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought. >> >>i > > His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it toplease > his dad. > > Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plusside of > his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) > > Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it!Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so hissize might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it. While I understand what you and Igor are saying, basically, DS is *not* a particularly physical kid. He enjoys fencing because there is a historical/fantastical element to it (his dad says they might join SCA this year), but he's never even been the type to wrestle for fun --- much less for sport!

I am not particularly physical either and teaching me to dance is
impossible. I enjoy sports that require concentration and effort, for
example running and weightlifting.

Your son may also find something that involves physical activity but
fits his personality. Riding horse is also historical, I am sure that
you can come up with more stuff.

i

In article <20040804231257.11031.00002787@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote:"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in messagenews:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi wrote: >>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some >>aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young >>person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested, >>that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought. >> >>i > > His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it toplease > his dad. > > Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a plusside of > his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) > > Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it!Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so hissize might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it. While I understand what you and Igor are saying, basically, DS is *not* a particularly physical kid. He enjoys fencing because there is a historical/fantastical element to it (his dad says they might join SCA this year), but he's never even been the type to wrestle for fun --- much less for sport!

I am not particularly physical either and teaching me to dance is
impossible. I enjoy sports that require concentration and effort, for
example running and weightlifting.

Your son may also find something that involves physical activity but
fits his personality. Riding horse is also historical, I am sure that
you can come up with more stuff.

i

WhansaMi wrote:
Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him?

I have read that children usually reach the height or greater of their
parents' heights averaged. So if you're 5'4" and your son's father is 5'9"
your son could expect to reach at least 5' 6". Maybe. I don't think it's an
exact science!

My eldest son has always been on the small side and followed the 25% curve
from his infancy (once he got over being a 10lb newborn, that is). He turned
14 last month and I recorded his height and weight. He's on the 50th
percentile for height and 25th for weight based on the US CDC tables which
we use too. (Apparently US teenage boys are slightly taller and heavier than
Aus. boys.)

I was a bit surprised because although I knew he'd had a growth spurt (4
inches in a year rather the the usual 2) and overtaken me in height recently
I hadn't realised he was dead on average for his age. Most of his friends
are taller than him so the tables are not necessarily relevant to small
groups of kids.

Anyway, my son has never been terribly sporty. This year is the first he's
played soccer for fun in the school yard at lunchtime (although he's had
several years of weekend club soccer). He's never been competitive in
physical pursuits and I don't think that has anything much to do with his
size, it's his personality. He moves quite quickly when he wants to but
lacks the killer instinct... it probably helps that he's so slender,
otherwise he'd have even more reason to spend all his waking hours in front
of a computer screen playing "Halo" or whatever is his current passion.

He likes things like swimming and cycling and has recently mentioned doing
some weight training. I think if you gently steered your son towards
activities that relied more on setting personal goals than measuring himself
against others it might help his self-confidence.

Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and as
part of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontist
was able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt by
looking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you a
fortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information.

Tai

WhansaMi wrote:
Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him?

I have read that children usually reach the height or greater of their
parents' heights averaged. So if you're 5'4" and your son's father is 5'9"
your son could expect to reach at least 5' 6". Maybe. I don't think it's an
exact science!

My eldest son has always been on the small side and followed the 25% curve
from his infancy (once he got over being a 10lb newborn, that is). He turned
14 last month and I recorded his height and weight. He's on the 50th
percentile for height and 25th for weight based on the US CDC tables which
we use too. (Apparently US teenage boys are slightly taller and heavier than
Aus. boys.)

I was a bit surprised because although I knew he'd had a growth spurt (4
inches in a year rather the the usual 2) and overtaken me in height recently
I hadn't realised he was dead on average for his age. Most of his friends
are taller than him so the tables are not necessarily relevant to small
groups of kids.

Anyway, my son has never been terribly sporty. This year is the first he's
played soccer for fun in the school yard at lunchtime (although he's had
several years of weekend club soccer). He's never been competitive in
physical pursuits and I don't think that has anything much to do with his
size, it's his personality. He moves quite quickly when he wants to but
lacks the killer instinct... it probably helps that he's so slender,
otherwise he'd have even more reason to spend all his waking hours in front
of a computer screen playing "Halo" or whatever is his current passion.

He likes things like swimming and cycling and has recently mentioned doing
some weight training. I think if you gently steered your son towards
activities that relied more on setting personal goals than measuring himself
against others it might help his self-confidence.

Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and as
part of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontist
was able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt by
looking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you a
fortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information.

Tai

"Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MLqdnfqby9sGPYzcRVn-gQ@comcast.com>... The girls all think he's sooooooooooo cute, lol,

No suggestions, since I have petite girls not boys, but I wanted to
make a plea to all the mothers of short-fry boys: please, encourage
your boys to date short-fry girls!

I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school. I preferred and
wanted to date guys who were 5' to 5'4" because it was much more
comfortable to slow dance with them. But to my chagrin, it seemed like
all the boys in this height range wanted nothing to do with a short
gal. They looked right past me to the taller girls!

So I resigned myself to dating those who would date me: guys who were
taller than 5'8". In fact, most of the guys I've dated are over 6
feet. My ex was 5'11" and DF is 5'10." The few guys who were under
5'4" were the most physically comfortable for me - I loved being able
to slow dance and stare into their eyes or kiss them standing up
without getting a friggin' crick in my neck!!!!

I could never figure this out, until in my 20s I briefly dated a guy
who was 5'2". The reason we broke up? He was quite candid about it. He
said that his mother would *kill* him if he fell in love with and
brought home a girl under 5'5"!!! His mother told him it was up to him
to marry a tall girl so that they could get some tall genes in the
family!!!

That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all
these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl
they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never
understood it.

So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite
gals!

jen

"Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MLqdnfqby9sGPYzcRVn-gQ@comcast.com>... The girls all think he's sooooooooooo cute, lol,

No suggestions, since I have petite girls not boys, but I wanted to
make a plea to all the mothers of short-fry boys: please, encourage
your boys to date short-fry girls!

I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school. I preferred and
wanted to date guys who were 5' to 5'4" because it was much more
comfortable to slow dance with them. But to my chagrin, it seemed like
all the boys in this height range wanted nothing to do with a short
gal. They looked right past me to the taller girls!

So I resigned myself to dating those who would date me: guys who were
taller than 5'8". In fact, most of the guys I've dated are over 6
feet. My ex was 5'11" and DF is 5'10." The few guys who were under
5'4" were the most physically comfortable for me - I loved being able
to slow dance and stare into their eyes or kiss them standing up
without getting a friggin' crick in my neck!!!!

I could never figure this out, until in my 20s I briefly dated a guy
who was 5'2". The reason we broke up? He was quite candid about it. He
said that his mother would *kill* him if he fell in love with and
brought home a girl under 5'5"!!! His mother told him it was up to him
to marry a tall girl so that they could get some tall genes in the
family!!!

That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all
these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl
they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never
understood it.

So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite
gals!

jen

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ne44aFv7muhU1@uni-berlin.de>...

I have read that children usually reach the height or greater of their parents' heights averaged. So if you're 5'4" and your son's father is 5'9" your son could expect to reach at least 5' 6". Maybe. I don't think it's an exact science! My eldest son has always been on the small side and followed the 25% curve from his infancy (once he got over being a 10lb newborn, that is). He turned 14 last month and I recorded his height and weight. He's on the 50th percentile for height and 25th for weight based on the US CDC tables which we use too. (Apparently US teenage boys are slightly taller and heavier than Aus. boys.)

The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to
end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe
even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her
feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter
than me.

Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to
her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but
I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister
easily will top that.

jen

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ne44aFv7muhU1@uni-berlin.de>...

I have read that children usually reach the height or greater of their parents' heights averaged. So if you're 5'4" and your son's father is 5'9" your son could expect to reach at least 5' 6". Maybe. I don't think it's an exact science! My eldest son has always been on the small side and followed the 25% curve from his infancy (once he got over being a 10lb newborn, that is). He turned 14 last month and I recorded his height and weight. He's on the 50th percentile for height and 25th for weight based on the US CDC tables which we use too. (Apparently US teenage boys are slightly taller and heavier than Aus. boys.)

The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to
end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe
even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her
feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter
than me.

Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to
her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but
I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister
easily will top that.

jen

On 5 Aug 2004 05:35:13 -0700, shinypenny
<shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:

<Snip>
That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never understood it.

Well, with a tall girl they could dance cheek to... well... you know. :)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

On 5 Aug 2004 05:35:13 -0700, shinypenny
<shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:

<Snip>
That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never understood it.

Well, with a tall girl they could dance cheek to... well... you know. :)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

This height thing is very interesting.

I'm a 51 year old male (so I'm at the other end (in time)
of all these shenanigans). I'm 5'8" which isn't amazingly
tall for a male. I was married for 21 years to a woman who
was about half an inch or an inch taller and I wasn't
really conscious of height then. I think I'm aware now
that physical things just work better if the female is
smaller or same height not taller and I believe average
female height is less than average male height so this
makes sense. In many peoples' minds there is a loose association
between being talk and being a leader and maybe being male
and strong and all that stuff. There's the female liking
for taller men and so on.

Some things about being not as tall as people you are
with - try getting served in a crowd at a bar - they
just look past you.

I'm not attracted to women taller than me (don't
ask how I spent 21 years with one - it was a mistake).

So - the fact that there is some tendency for females to
match with males taller than themself has implications.
If I seek females less than or equal to my height then
that's a smaller number of available females than for
a male who is 6 ft. So when 6 foot males go for 5 foot
females they are making it more difficult for 5 foot
males (unless those males like taller women).

As for the guy who lets his mother dictate what height
girls he dates - well I hope one day he will make his own
choices and tell his mother where to get off. And I
can't understand any female being interested in such
a non self-determining male even if he is yet young.

Yes, slow dancing is lovely, even at 51. Especially
at 51.

bogey

The girls all thinkhe's sooooooooooo cute, lol, No suggestions, since I have petite girls not boys, but I wanted to make a plea to all the mothers of short-fry boys: please, encourage your boys to date short-fry girls! I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school. I preferred and wanted to date guys who were 5' to 5'4" because it was much more comfortable to slow dance with them. But to my chagrin, it seemed like all the boys in this height range wanted nothing to do with a short gal. They looked right past me to the taller girls! So I resigned myself to dating those who would date me: guys who were taller than 5'8". In fact, most of the guys I've dated are over 6 feet. My ex was 5'11" and DF is 5'10." The few guys who were under 5'4" were the most physically comfortable for me - I loved being able to slow dance and stare into their eyes or kiss them standing up without getting a friggin' crick in my neck!!!! I could never figure this out, until in my 20s I briefly dated a guy who was 5'2". The reason we broke up? He was quite candid about it. He said that his mother would *kill* him if he fell in love with and brought home a girl under 5'5"!!! His mother told him it was up to him to marry a tall girl so that they could get some tall genes in the family!!! That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never understood it. So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite gals! jen

This height thing is very interesting.

I'm a 51 year old male (so I'm at the other end (in time)
of all these shenanigans). I'm 5'8" which isn't amazingly
tall for a male. I was married for 21 years to a woman who
was about half an inch or an inch taller and I wasn't
really conscious of height then. I think I'm aware now
that physical things just work better if the female is
smaller or same height not taller and I believe average
female height is less than average male height so this
makes sense. In many peoples' minds there is a loose association
between being talk and being a leader and maybe being male
and strong and all that stuff. There's the female liking
for taller men and so on.

Some things about being not as tall as people you are
with - try getting served in a crowd at a bar - they
just look past you.

I'm not attracted to women taller than me (don't
ask how I spent 21 years with one - it was a mistake).

So - the fact that there is some tendency for females to
match with males taller than themself has implications.
If I seek females less than or equal to my height then
that's a smaller number of available females than for
a male who is 6 ft. So when 6 foot males go for 5 foot
females they are making it more difficult for 5 foot
males (unless those males like taller women).

As for the guy who lets his mother dictate what height
girls he dates - well I hope one day he will make his own
choices and tell his mother where to get off. And I
can't understand any female being interested in such
a non self-determining male even if he is yet young.

Yes, slow dancing is lovely, even at 51. Especially
at 51.

bogey

The girls all thinkhe's sooooooooooo cute, lol, No suggestions, since I have petite girls not boys, but I wanted to make a plea to all the mothers of short-fry boys: please, encourage your boys to date short-fry girls! I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school. I preferred and wanted to date guys who were 5' to 5'4" because it was much more comfortable to slow dance with them. But to my chagrin, it seemed like all the boys in this height range wanted nothing to do with a short gal. They looked right past me to the taller girls! So I resigned myself to dating those who would date me: guys who were taller than 5'8". In fact, most of the guys I've dated are over 6 feet. My ex was 5'11" and DF is 5'10." The few guys who were under 5'4" were the most physically comfortable for me - I loved being able to slow dance and stare into their eyes or kiss them standing up without getting a friggin' crick in my neck!!!! I could never figure this out, until in my 20s I briefly dated a guy who was 5'2". The reason we broke up? He was quite candid about it. He said that his mother would *kill* him if he fell in love with and brought home a girl under 5'5"!!! His mother told him it was up to him to marry a tall girl so that they could get some tall genes in the family!!! That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never understood it. So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite gals! jen

The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter than me. Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister easily will top that. jen

I have two children at opposite extremes. My daughter (13)
is very small and obviously destined to be a small adult.
My son (16) is 6 foot 4 already and growing. They are
both genetically mine. My ex'es family are all
tall, my own family are all small.

Genatic dice play strange tricks.

bogey

The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter than me. Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister easily will top that. jen

I have two children at opposite extremes. My daughter (13)
is very small and obviously destined to be a small adult.
My son (16) is 6 foot 4 already and growing. They are
both genetically mine. My ex'es family are all
tall, my own family are all small.

Genatic dice play strange tricks.

bogey

Yes, slow dancing is lovely, even at 51. Especially at 51.

whether its vertical or horizontal.

bogey

Yes, slow dancing is lovely, even at 51. Especially at 51.

whether its vertical or horizontal.

bogey

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember
one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good
kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle
school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6
or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended
toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he
was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to
and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a
bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him
that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and
more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For
instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a
little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the
"l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker.
He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest
kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"!
;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

Sheila,
Everything you have written about your son could be about my younger one.
In 8th grade he showed some interest in theater, and I sent him to a theater
camp that summer. It changed his life. He is now entering his second year
at Rochester Institute of Technology, has more friends than I can count, and
will always keep theater as a part of his life. Luckily he chose not to
peruse it as his life's work (he is a New Media, Publishing major) but as
his life's love. Somehow theater and computer geeks go very well together.
He is an amazing actor, but many of his friends ended up loving the
technical aspects of theater... lighting, sound, set design, special
effects, etc.
So..now at 19, he is 5'11 and weighs in at a whopping 125 pounds (think
Olive Oyl). But he is so comfortable in his own skin.
When he was younger I dragged him to every sporting event his older brother
was in. He had no interest. Life in high school is easier on jocks. But
there certainly will be something that he can love there. Tell him that
this is the opportunity for him to explore all of those possibilities. You
can't make his body grow, but you can certainly aid him in growing his
spirit.
Momma

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember
one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good
kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle
school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6
or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended
toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he
was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to
and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a
bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him
that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and
more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For
instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a
little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the
"l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker.
He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest
kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"!
;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

Sheila,
Everything you have written about your son could be about my younger one.
In 8th grade he showed some interest in theater, and I sent him to a theater
camp that summer. It changed his life. He is now entering his second year
at Rochester Institute of Technology, has more friends than I can count, and
will always keep theater as a part of his life. Luckily he chose not to
peruse it as his life's work (he is a New Media, Publishing major) but as
his life's love. Somehow theater and computer geeks go very well together.
He is an amazing actor, but many of his friends ended up loving the
technical aspects of theater... lighting, sound, set design, special
effects, etc.
So..now at 19, he is 5'11 and weighs in at a whopping 125 pounds (think
Olive Oyl). But he is so comfortable in his own skin.
When he was younger I dragged him to every sporting event his older brother
was in. He had no interest. Life in high school is easier on jocks. But
there certainly will be something that he can love there. Tell him that
this is the opportunity for him to explore all of those possibilities. You
can't make his body grow, but you can certainly aid him in growing his
spirit.
Momma

Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him?
Tai: >I have read that children usually reach the height or greater of theirparents' heights averaged. So if you're 5'4" and your son's father is 5'9"your son could expect to reach at least 5' 6". Maybe. I don't think it's anexact science!

Yeah... I doubt he's going to be a tall man. That's okay. I just want to help
ease him through this adolesence.

Anyway, my son has never been terribly sporty. This year is the first he'splayed soccer for fun in the school yard at lunchtime (although he's hadseveral years of weekend club soccer). He's never been competitive inphysical pursuits and I don't think that has anything much to do with hissize, it's his personality. He moves quite quickly when he wants to butlacks the killer instinct... it probably helps that he's so slender,otherwise he'd have even more reason to spend all his waking hours in frontof a computer screen playing "Halo" or whatever is his current passion.

LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could hook up!
He likes things like swimming and cycling and has recently mentioned doingsome weight training. I think if you gently steered your son towardsactivities that relied more on setting personal goals than measuring himselfagainst others it might help his self-confidence.

He tends to be goal-oriented, although his goals are idiosyncratic. For
instance, he and some of his friends have spent a fair amount of time designing
games. He also sets specific goals for his characters in his computer games,
and works towards that. He hopes to compete in fencing when he is of age (you
can't compete until you are sixteen). He's not a super-confident kid, but he
has a pretty good idea of what his strengths are, and he's very confident about
those. When my DD started middle school last year, he was telling her about
the different cliques. He told her she'd probably be with the popular kids,
but "I'll never been in the popular group because I'm not into pop culture and
I'm too smart. I have to be in the nerd group."

[A small brag: He got back his scores for the state mandated proficency test.
He scored on the highest level in four of the five tests, including the
geometry, which he took in 8th grade. Yayayay!]
Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and aspart of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontistwas able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt bylooking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you afortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information.

The good news is that he inherited my teeth -- no need for orthodontia! DD on
the other hand..... <sigh>

SheilaTai

Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him?
Tai: >I have read that children usually reach the height or greater of theirparents' heights averaged. So if you're 5'4" and your son's father is 5'9"your son could expect to reach at least 5' 6". Maybe. I don't think it's anexact science!

Yeah... I doubt he's going to be a tall man. That's okay. I just want to help
ease him through this adolesence.

Anyway, my son has never been terribly sporty. This year is the first he'splayed soccer for fun in the school yard at lunchtime (although he's hadseveral years of weekend club soccer). He's never been competitive inphysical pursuits and I don't think that has anything much to do with hissize, it's his personality. He moves quite quickly when he wants to butlacks the killer instinct... it probably helps that he's so slender,otherwise he'd have even more reason to spend all his waking hours in frontof a computer screen playing "Halo" or whatever is his current passion.

LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could hook up!
He likes things like swimming and cycling and has recently mentioned doingsome weight training. I think if you gently steered your son towardsactivities that relied more on setting personal goals than measuring himselfagainst others it might help his self-confidence.

He tends to be goal-oriented, although his goals are idiosyncratic. For
instance, he and some of his friends have spent a fair amount of time designing
games. He also sets specific goals for his characters in his computer games,
and works towards that. He hopes to compete in fencing when he is of age (you
can't compete until you are sixteen). He's not a super-confident kid, but he
has a pretty good idea of what his strengths are, and he's very confident about
those. When my DD started middle school last year, he was telling her about
the different cliques. He told her she'd probably be with the popular kids,
but "I'll never been in the popular group because I'm not into pop culture and
I'm too smart. I have to be in the nerd group."

[A small brag: He got back his scores for the state mandated proficency test.
He scored on the highest level in four of the five tests, including the
geometry, which he took in 8th grade. Yayayay!]
Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and aspart of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontistwas able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt bylooking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you afortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information.

The good news is that he inherited my teeth -- no need for orthodontia! DD on
the other hand..... <sigh>

SheilaTai

>Sheila,Everything you have written about your son could be about my younger one.In 8th grade he showed some interest in theater, and I sent him to a theatercamp that summer. It changed his life. He is now entering his second yearat Rochester Institute of Technology, has more friends than I can count, andwill always keep theater as a part of his life. Luckily he chose not toperuse it as his life's work (he is a New Media, Publishing major) but ashis life's love. Somehow theater and computer geeks go very well together.He is an amazing actor, but many of his friends ended up loving thetechnical aspects of theater... lighting, sound, set design, specialeffects, etc.So..now at 19, he is 5'11 and weighs in at a whopping 125 pounds (thinkOlive Oyl). But he is so comfortable in his own skin.When he was younger I dragged him to every sporting event his older brotherwas in. He had no interest. Life in high school is easier on jocks. Butthere certainly will be something that he can love there. Tell him thatthis is the opportunity for him to explore all of those possibilities. Youcan't make his body grow, but you can certainly aid him in growing hisspirit.Momma

Momma, I will try to encourage him to do theater again in high school. He did
it for a couple of years in elementary -- he even had the male lead for one
production -- but the stage fright was what, I think, made him decide not to
pursue it further.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Sheila

>Sheila,Everything you have written about your son could be about my younger one.In 8th grade he showed some interest in theater, and I sent him to a theatercamp that summer. It changed his life. He is now entering his second yearat Rochester Institute of Technology, has more friends than I can count, andwill always keep theater as a part of his life. Luckily he chose not toperuse it as his life's work (he is a New Media, Publishing major) but ashis life's love. Somehow theater and computer geeks go very well together.He is an amazing actor, but many of his friends ended up loving thetechnical aspects of theater... lighting, sound, set design, specialeffects, etc.So..now at 19, he is 5'11 and weighs in at a whopping 125 pounds (thinkOlive Oyl). But he is so comfortable in his own skin.When he was younger I dragged him to every sporting event his older brotherwas in. He had no interest. Life in high school is easier on jocks. Butthere certainly will be something that he can love there. Tell him thatthis is the opportunity for him to explore all of those possibilities. Youcan't make his body grow, but you can certainly aid him in growing hisspirit.Momma

Momma, I will try to encourage him to do theater again in high school. He did
it for a couple of years in elementary -- he even had the male lead for one
production -- but the stage fright was what, I think, made him decide not to
pursue it further.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Sheila

"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message
news:cerrt1$jf7$0@pita.alt.net... I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested, that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought. i

Better still, if he is interested in that route, would be something for
which a small physique can be an asset, not a liability, like martial arts.

"Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message
news:cerrt1$jf7$0@pita.alt.net... I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested, that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought. i

Better still, if he is interested in that route, would be something for
which a small physique can be an asset, not a liability, like martial arts.

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0408050435.3cd42f78@posting.google.c om... So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite gals!

DrLith, whose DS9 (still in "girls are evil" stage) will probably top out
around 5'6", making a note...

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0408050435.3cd42f78@posting.google.c om... So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite gals!

DrLith, whose DS9 (still in "girls are evil" stage) will probably top out
around 5'6", making a note...

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com>... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

How tall is he? Is it really a problem for him or are you just worried
it might be?

I'm neither big nor tall (about 5'8"). It's a liability in some
situations and advantageous in others. I don't see it as a big problem
for me at all. Even in High School when there were a ton of things I
would have changed about myself if I could have, my physique was not
one of them. I'm athletic and overall I preferred being small and
quick over being big and strong.

Maybe what helped is that I've got 3 brothers and they're all big. We
used to play a lot of football when we were young so I got used to
getting knocked around by the bigger kids. I learned the value of
hitting low and I could run circles around most of them. Perhaps
that's why I never felt inferior because of my physical stature, or
lack of it ;-).

If I remember right, I believe you prefer big men and certainly you
aren't alone, but there are plenty of women that seem to appreciate a
"swimmer's build", so from that standpoint I wasn't terribly concerned
either.

JWB has a good idea. If your son's height is playing playing into some
insecurities, martial arts may be a good way to overcome that.

I do think it can be hard for a 14 year old to take advice from his
mom regarding stuff like this. Good luck!

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com>... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

How tall is he? Is it really a problem for him or are you just worried
it might be?

I'm neither big nor tall (about 5'8"). It's a liability in some
situations and advantageous in others. I don't see it as a big problem
for me at all. Even in High School when there were a ton of things I
would have changed about myself if I could have, my physique was not
one of them. I'm athletic and overall I preferred being small and
quick over being big and strong.

Maybe what helped is that I've got 3 brothers and they're all big. We
used to play a lot of football when we were young so I got used to
getting knocked around by the bigger kids. I learned the value of
hitting low and I could run circles around most of them. Perhaps
that's why I never felt inferior because of my physical stature, or
lack of it ;-).

If I remember right, I believe you prefer big men and certainly you
aren't alone, but there are plenty of women that seem to appreciate a
"swimmer's build", so from that standpoint I wasn't terribly concerned
either.

JWB has a good idea. If your son's height is playing playing into some
insecurities, martial arts may be a good way to overcome that.

I do think it can be hard for a 14 year old to take advice from his
mom regarding stuff like this. Good luck!

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411232f9$0$88457$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... I have two children at opposite extremes. My daughter (13) is very small and obviously destined to be a small adult. My son (16) is 6 foot 4 already and growing. They are both genetically mine. My ex'es family are all tall, my own family are all small. Genatic dice play strange tricks.

Was talking to a woman last night who had two sisters. The girls' heights in
her family were 5'2", 5'6", and 5'10". So, yeah, you can take the same genes
and mix up up and get quite a variation.

My kids' dad is quite short (5'4") and I'm on the short side of average for
women (5'5"). Not enough to ensure that they will be short adults, but at 6
and 9 they are certainly not outstripping expectations.

It probably concerns me more, though, that they seem to have gotten their
dad's big teeth and my tiny jaw :-)

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411232f9$0$88457$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... I have two children at opposite extremes. My daughter (13) is very small and obviously destined to be a small adult. My son (16) is 6 foot 4 already and growing. They are both genetically mine. My ex'es family are all tall, my own family are all small. Genatic dice play strange tricks.

Was talking to a woman last night who had two sisters. The girls' heights in
her family were 5'2", 5'6", and 5'10". So, yeah, you can take the same genes
and mix up up and get quite a variation.

My kids' dad is quite short (5'4") and I'm on the short side of average for
women (5'5"). Not enough to ensure that they will be short adults, but at 6
and 9 they are certainly not outstripping expectations.

It probably concerns me more, though, that they seem to have gotten their
dad's big teeth and my tiny jaw :-)

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com>... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

Hi Sheila,
We're on the other end the spectrum. Our daughte was born 95th
percentile in height and weight. Height has been a steady 100% and
her weight is about 85th. I'd kill to have her body. At any rate,
she has always been the tallest in her class (and we put her ahead a
year) and she is still taller than many a year older.

Knowing that she'd probably be tall, my biggest mission with her was
to be proud of her height. I swear to you, when she was a newborn, I
cut out an article on tall girls and put it in her baby book. From
day one I have spoken about how awesome height is. I have foucused on
inner beauty, being smart, being strong and being a good person.

While one day her height might really bother her, she understands (I
think) that there are things that we can change and things that we
can't. We have to work with what we have by focusing on the things
that we really like about ourselves.

I know that you know this Sheila, but from time to time I have to be
reminded of the simplest things. I'll often call a friend with a
"kid" issue and in three seconds, I'll be reminded of something that I
once tried that worked.

I was going to recommend martial arts also but apparently JWB did and
it's not for your son. I do think that it's important that he does
_something_ physical so that he feels empowered with strength of some
sort. Our daughter finally has found basketball as her passion. I
could scream with joy that she has chosen and indoor sport (yep, a
selfish mom :-) She has been playing for a couple of years now, she
was just a ball girl at the WNBA game last week in our state and
attends many of their games. She collects autographs and has this
goal to be one of them. Sorry, I digress.

So that's my take. Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change
for men. Although with all this surgery nonsense can change faces,
breasts, stomachs, etc. our focus with our children has to be on their
beauty. I was not given that as a child and to this day still hear
some of the old tapes.

Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are looking
their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion
with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into
strapping young men :-)

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20040804192941.11031.00002772@mb-m02.aol.com>... Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

Hi Sheila,
We're on the other end the spectrum. Our daughte was born 95th
percentile in height and weight. Height has been a steady 100% and
her weight is about 85th. I'd kill to have her body. At any rate,
she has always been the tallest in her class (and we put her ahead a
year) and she is still taller than many a year older.

Knowing that she'd probably be tall, my biggest mission with her was
to be proud of her height. I swear to you, when she was a newborn, I
cut out an article on tall girls and put it in her baby book. From
day one I have spoken about how awesome height is. I have foucused on
inner beauty, being smart, being strong and being a good person.

While one day her height might really bother her, she understands (I
think) that there are things that we can change and things that we
can't. We have to work with what we have by focusing on the things
that we really like about ourselves.

I know that you know this Sheila, but from time to time I have to be
reminded of the simplest things. I'll often call a friend with a
"kid" issue and in three seconds, I'll be reminded of something that I
once tried that worked.

I was going to recommend martial arts also but apparently JWB did and
it's not for your son. I do think that it's important that he does
_something_ physical so that he feels empowered with strength of some
sort. Our daughter finally has found basketball as her passion. I
could scream with joy that she has chosen and indoor sport (yep, a
selfish mom :-) She has been playing for a couple of years now, she
was just a ball girl at the WNBA game last week in our state and
attends many of their games. She collects autographs and has this
goal to be one of them. Sorry, I digress.

So that's my take. Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change
for men. Although with all this surgery nonsense can change faces,
breasts, stomachs, etc. our focus with our children has to be on their
beauty. I was not given that as a child and to this day still hear
some of the old tapes.

Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are looking
their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion
with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into
strapping young men :-)

>bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in messagenews:411232f9$0$88457$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... I have two children at opposite extremes. My daughter (13) is very small and obviously destined to be a small adult. My son (16) is 6 foot 4 already and growing. They are both genetically mine. My ex'es family are all tall, my own family are all small. Genatic dice play strange tricks.Was talking to a woman last night who had two sisters. The girls' heights inher family were 5'2", 5'6", and 5'10". So, yeah, you can take the same genesand mix up up and get quite a variation.My kids' dad is quite short (5'4") and I'm on the short side of average forwomen (5'5"). Not enough to ensure that they will be short adults, but at 6and 9 they are certainly not outstripping expectations.It probably concerns me more, though, that they seem to have gotten theirdad's big teeth and my tiny jaw :-)

::: looking into crystal ball::: I see... orthodontia in your future... ;-)

DD is very small... right around 4'9' at nearly 14. She is adopted, and her
birthmother is about 5'3", her birthfather was 5'2" (or thereabouts) *and* she
was diagnosed with failure to thrive, which doctors predict will take up to 3
inches off her adult height. We figure she'll probably top out at about 4'11
or 5'. She'd like to be taller (her best friend is about 5'7") but, I think as
she gets older she will see the advantages of being a short woman.

Fortuntately, both of my kids are slender (although DD has been filling out a
bit this year --- Jennifer, I think you'll be surprised when you see her next!)
so weight isn't an issue. In fact, since you can see every single rib in DS's
back when he's sleeping, I'd like for him to gain a bit!

My DH is 6'6", and one of my friends once said something about "the giant and
his Lilliputian family." ;-)))

Sheila

>bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in messagenews:411232f9$0$88457$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... I have two children at opposite extremes. My daughter (13) is very small and obviously destined to be a small adult. My son (16) is 6 foot 4 already and growing. They are both genetically mine. My ex'es family are all tall, my own family are all small. Genatic dice play strange tricks.Was talking to a woman last night who had two sisters. The girls' heights inher family were 5'2", 5'6", and 5'10". So, yeah, you can take the same genesand mix up up and get quite a variation.My kids' dad is quite short (5'4") and I'm on the short side of average forwomen (5'5"). Not enough to ensure that they will be short adults, but at 6and 9 they are certainly not outstripping expectations.It probably concerns me more, though, that they seem to have gotten theirdad's big teeth and my tiny jaw :-)

::: looking into crystal ball::: I see... orthodontia in your future... ;-)

DD is very small... right around 4'9' at nearly 14. She is adopted, and her
birthmother is about 5'3", her birthfather was 5'2" (or thereabouts) *and* she
was diagnosed with failure to thrive, which doctors predict will take up to 3
inches off her adult height. We figure she'll probably top out at about 4'11
or 5'. She'd like to be taller (her best friend is about 5'7") but, I think as
she gets older she will see the advantages of being a short woman.

Fortuntately, both of my kids are slender (although DD has been filling out a
bit this year --- Jennifer, I think you'll be surprised when you see her next!)
so weight isn't an issue. In fact, since you can see every single rib in DS's
back when he's sleeping, I'd like for him to gain a bit!

My DH is 6'6", and one of my friends once said something about "the giant and
his Lilliputian family." ;-)))

Sheila

Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are lookingtheir best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportionwith his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn intostrapping young men :-)

:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered "kid's
menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.

It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!

Sheila

Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are lookingtheir best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportionwith his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn intostrapping young men :-)

:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered "kid's
menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.

It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!

Sheila

Then you will appreciate men like me, because I am married to a 5'1"
woman. I am 5'11". My wife, amusingly, is "big boned", and I am "small
boned". So, my wrist circumference is the same as hers, even though I
am 10" taller and male!

I am wondering if my son will be more like me in height, or more like
my wife.

i

Then you will appreciate men like me, because I am married to a 5'1"
woman. I am 5'11". My wife, amusingly, is "big boned", and I am "small
boned". So, my wrist circumference is the same as hers, even though I
am 10" taller and male!

I am wondering if my son will be more like me in height, or more like
my wife.

i

Reading this thread I feel very sad when I see someone who
has been dealt physical cards that make them
physically ugly.

I am also minded that while no two people are the
same, smell, feel, behaviour are different, that
when the lights are out there's probably not
much difference between one person and another
(within reason).

I wonder what's physically attractive to blind people.

bogey
::: looking into crystal ball::: I see... orthodontia in your future... ;-) DD is very small... right around 4'9' at nearly 14. She is adopted, and her birthmother is about 5'3", her birthfather was 5'2" (or thereabouts) *and* she was diagnosed with failure to thrive, which doctors predict will take up to 3 inches off her adult height. We figure she'll probably top out at about 4'11 or 5'. She'd like to be taller (her best friend is about 5'7") but, I think as she gets older she will see the advantages of being a short woman. Fortuntately, both of my kids are slender (although DD has been filling out a bit this year --- Jennifer, I think you'll be surprised when you see her next!) so weight isn't an issue. In fact, since you can see every single rib in DS's back when he's sleeping, I'd like for him to gain a bit! My DH is 6'6", and one of my friends once said something about "the giant and his Lilliputian family." ;-))) Sheila

Reading this thread I feel very sad when I see someone who
has been dealt physical cards that make them
physically ugly.

I am also minded that while no two people are the
same, smell, feel, behaviour are different, that
when the lights are out there's probably not
much difference between one person and another
(within reason).

I wonder what's physically attractive to blind people.

bogey
::: looking into crystal ball::: I see... orthodontia in your future... ;-) DD is very small... right around 4'9' at nearly 14. She is adopted, and her birthmother is about 5'3", her birthfather was 5'2" (or thereabouts) *and* she was diagnosed with failure to thrive, which doctors predict will take up to 3 inches off her adult height. We figure she'll probably top out at about 4'11 or 5'. She'd like to be taller (her best friend is about 5'7") but, I think as she gets older she will see the advantages of being a short woman. Fortuntately, both of my kids are slender (although DD has been filling out a bit this year --- Jennifer, I think you'll be surprised when you see her next!) so weight isn't an issue. In fact, since you can see every single rib in DS's back when he's sleeping, I'd like for him to gain a bit! My DH is 6'6", and one of my friends once said something about "the giant and his Lilliputian family." ;-))) Sheila

x-no-archive: yes

WhansaMi wrote:
:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid's menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.

My kid, at 9 1/2, is tall for her age. She looks about one to two years older
than she actually is. We have to request a kid's menu anymore, and while they
do give it to us, they look at us very strangely!

beeswing

x-no-archive: yes

WhansaMi wrote:
:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid's menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.

My kid, at 9 1/2, is tall for her age. She looks about one to two years older
than she actually is. We have to request a kid's menu anymore, and while they
do give it to us, they look at us very strangely!

beeswing

In article <oOudnesEQ-bz0o_cRVn-iQ@telcove.net>, glunk wrote: "Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message news:cerrt1$jf7$0@pita.alt.net... I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested, that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought. i Better still, if he is interested in that route, would be something for which a small physique can be an asset, not a liability, like martial arts.

Could work too, although if he is not "physical", he probably won't
enjoy it.

i

In article <oOudnesEQ-bz0o_cRVn-iQ@telcove.net>, glunk wrote: "Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message news:cerrt1$jf7$0@pita.alt.net... I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested, that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a thought. i Better still, if he is interested in that route, would be something for which a small physique can be an asset, not a liability, like martial arts.

Could work too, although if he is not "physical", he probably won't
enjoy it.

i

> So that's my take. Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men. Although with all this surgery nonsense can change faces,

So all those men try to increase penis size so they can get
served first in the bar are all wasting their money ?

bogey

> So that's my take. Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men. Although with all this surgery nonsense can change faces,

So all those men try to increase penis size so they can get
served first in the bar are all wasting their money ?

bogey

"WhansaMi <whansami@aol.com>" asked about her son, who is not very tall.

Semi-relevantly, I was the second-shortest person in school for *years*,
and don't think I wasn't grateful that Margie Thompson was there to be
the shortest. Then I grew something like 13 inches in 3 years, and now
I'm taller than average.


Under the heading of "maximise what you have", your son should make a
point of not slumping or slouching, because it will only make him look
shorter. If he expresses an interest, you might get him a book on
posture so at least he doesn't look smaller than he is.


Second, under the heading of "do what works", if he likes fencing,
encourage that. You might consider other kinds of weapon sports. Maybe
he'd like to train with a quarterstaff. If he likes to read, he might
look at George Silver's _Paradoxes of Defence_ (1599), which discusses
various kinds of swords and how they match up. It's on the web at:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html

Encourage him in the physical activities he likes. If he decides he'd
like to learn the quarterstaff, but that's hard to arrange, you could
see about a martial arts school and learning the bo (the east Asian
equivalent of a quarterstaff), or even the jo, a sword-length stick. I
know a karate instructor whose sensei had the rule that "I will teach
you to use a weapon when you can take it away from me.", on the theory
that one should be able to defend against a weapon before taking it
into a fight, where it might be taken away from you.


Under the heading of "defense in depth", if he's worried about being in
a locker because of his size, he may want to have more ways of staying
out of a locker than just being too big to fit. I offer here a quote
from Lois McMaster Bujold's book _The Vor Game_:

[...] Miles had seen it complete in Metzov's eyes sixty seconds
earlier. It reminded him of that definition of his father's.
*A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind.*
The mind was the first and final battle-ground, the stuff in
between was just noise.

If someone wants to stuff your son in a locker, and your son has a way
to change his mind, that's all the weapons he needs.

There's Dale Carnegie's famous _How to Win Friends and Influence
People_, and now that I'm thinking of it the Bujold books might be a
good choice. The lead character in many of them is Miles Vorkosigan,
who's short and sometimes underestimated, but highly capable. A good
first book here would be _Young Miles_, which includes two books and an
excellent short story, all arranged in chronological order.


Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
"Power is an amazing thing." -- Robert Fulghum

"WhansaMi <whansami@aol.com>" asked about her son, who is not very tall.

Semi-relevantly, I was the second-shortest person in school for *years*,
and don't think I wasn't grateful that Margie Thompson was there to be
the shortest. Then I grew something like 13 inches in 3 years, and now
I'm taller than average.


Under the heading of "maximise what you have", your son should make a
point of not slumping or slouching, because it will only make him look
shorter. If he expresses an interest, you might get him a book on
posture so at least he doesn't look smaller than he is.


Second, under the heading of "do what works", if he likes fencing,
encourage that. You might consider other kinds of weapon sports. Maybe
he'd like to train with a quarterstaff. If he likes to read, he might
look at George Silver's _Paradoxes of Defence_ (1599), which discusses
various kinds of swords and how they match up. It's on the web at:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html

Encourage him in the physical activities he likes. If he decides he'd
like to learn the quarterstaff, but that's hard to arrange, you could
see about a martial arts school and learning the bo (the east Asian
equivalent of a quarterstaff), or even the jo, a sword-length stick. I
know a karate instructor whose sensei had the rule that "I will teach
you to use a weapon when you can take it away from me.", on the theory
that one should be able to defend against a weapon before taking it
into a fight, where it might be taken away from you.


Under the heading of "defense in depth", if he's worried about being in
a locker because of his size, he may want to have more ways of staying
out of a locker than just being too big to fit. I offer here a quote
from Lois McMaster Bujold's book _The Vor Game_:

[...] Miles had seen it complete in Metzov's eyes sixty seconds
earlier. It reminded him of that definition of his father's.
*A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind.*
The mind was the first and final battle-ground, the stuff in
between was just noise.

If someone wants to stuff your son in a locker, and your son has a way
to change his mind, that's all the weapons he needs.

There's Dale Carnegie's famous _How to Win Friends and Influence
People_, and now that I'm thinking of it the Bujold books might be a
good choice. The lead character in many of them is Miles Vorkosigan,
who's short and sometimes underestimated, but highly capable. A good
first book here would be _Young Miles_, which includes two books and an
excellent short story, all arranged in chronological order.


Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
"Power is an amazing thing." -- Robert Fulghum

On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren
<caren50@msn.com> wrote:

<Snip>
Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men.

That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren
<caren50@msn.com> wrote:

<Snip>
Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men.

That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

WhansaMi <whansami@aol.com> wrote:
As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)).

This is what I'd tell him. Our younger D is also quite short and we
comfort her that DH and I were both late growers and she probably will
be too.

WhansaMi <whansami@aol.com> wrote:
As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)).

This is what I'd tell him. Our younger D is also quite short and we
comfort her that DH and I were both late growers and she probably will
be too.

Maybe you could ask HIM what he would like to do. I was skinny in High
School, and I had problems with depth perception so I couldn't play sports
with a moving ball very well. I ended up on the cross country team, the
wrestling team, the track team and during the summer I was on the swim team.

Short boys seem to be better able to beef up from weight lifting. He may
like martial arts (I do now.)

Good luck!

RJ

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10h35kr72rbiq71@corp.supernews.com... "Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message news:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi
wrote:>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some>aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young>person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,>that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a
thought.>>i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it
to please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a
plus side of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it! Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so
his size might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it.

Maybe you could ask HIM what he would like to do. I was skinny in High
School, and I had problems with depth perception so I couldn't play sports
with a moving ball very well. I ended up on the cross country team, the
wrestling team, the track team and during the summer I was on the swim team.

Short boys seem to be better able to beef up from weight lifting. He may
like martial arts (I do now.)

Good luck!

RJ

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10h35kr72rbiq71@corp.supernews.com... "Ignoramus11472" <ignoramus11472@NOSPAM.11472.invalid> wrote in message news:ces1rv$uj7$1@pita.alt.net... In article <20040804193915.11031.00002776@mb-m02.aol.com>, WhansaMi
wrote:>I think that it would be beneficial if he enjoyed at least some>aspects of his physique. So, maybe get him to become a strong young>person, by lifting weights for example. If he can become interested,>that would be excellent, and also good for his health. Just a
thought.>>i His dad drags him to the gym periodically. He hates it, but does it
to please his dad. Now, what he does like to do is fencing. He's even discovered a
plus side of his height -- you are harder to hit! ;-) Sheila Well, that's great if he likes it! Is wrestling an option? He'd be competing in his own weight class, so
his size might be less a disadvantage. Maybe he'd enjoy it.

"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message
news:slrnch4p8o.ack.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren <caren50@msn.com> wrote: <Snip> Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men. That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :) -Tony

Crikey! At least you are a guy! They are telling me that too. Ack!!
Momma

"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message
news:slrnch4p8o.ack.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren <caren50@msn.com> wrote: <Snip> Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men. That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :) -Tony

Crikey! At least you are a guy! They are telling me that too. Ack!!
Momma

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:28:16 GMT, Everyboysmomma
<noway@maine.rr.com> wrote: "Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message news:slrnch4p8o.ack.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren <caren50@msn.com> wrote: <Snip> Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men. That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :) -Tony Crikey! At least you are a guy! They are telling me that too. Ack!! Momma

One of them sent me an e-mail saying: "how would you like nine
inches!?!?!?!" I wrote an e-mail back saying: "Why would I want to cut
off three inches?!?!?!" :)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:28:16 GMT, Everyboysmomma
<noway@maine.rr.com> wrote: "Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message news:slrnch4p8o.ack.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren <caren50@msn.com> wrote: <Snip> Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change for men. That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :) -Tony Crikey! At least you are a guy! They are telling me that too. Ack!! Momma

One of them sent me an e-mail saying: "how would you like nine
inches!?!?!?!" I wrote an e-mail back saying: "Why would I want to cut
off three inches?!?!?!" :)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<c8cb5319.0408050435.3cd42f78@posting.google.com>... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MLqdnfqby9sGPYzcRVn-gQ@comcast.com>... The girls all think he's sooooooooooo cute, lol, No suggestions, since I have petite girls not boys, but I wanted to make a plea to all the mothers of short-fry boys: please, encourage your boys to date short-fry girls! I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school. I preferred and wanted to date guys who were 5' to 5'4" because it was much more comfortable to slow dance with them. But to my chagrin, it seemed like all the boys in this height range wanted nothing to do with a short gal. They looked right past me to the taller girls!
<snip>
jen

Wow. I can't understand this. I'm short and was always interested in
shorter girls. They're just soooo cu..., um, I mean attractive!

shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<c8cb5319.0408050435.3cd42f78@posting.google.com>... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MLqdnfqby9sGPYzcRVn-gQ@comcast.com>... The girls all think he's sooooooooooo cute, lol, No suggestions, since I have petite girls not boys, but I wanted to make a plea to all the mothers of short-fry boys: please, encourage your boys to date short-fry girls! I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school. I preferred and wanted to date guys who were 5' to 5'4" because it was much more comfortable to slow dance with them. But to my chagrin, it seemed like all the boys in this height range wanted nothing to do with a short gal. They looked right past me to the taller girls!
<snip>
jen

Wow. I can't understand this. I'm short and was always interested in
shorter girls. They're just soooo cu..., um, I mean attractive!

Tony Miller wrote:
On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:28:16 GMT, Everyboysmomma <noway@maine.rr.com> wrote:"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in messagenews:slrnch4p8o.ack.tony@home.cigardiary.co m...On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren<caren50@msn.com> wrote:<Snip>>Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change>for men.That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :)-TonyCrikey! At least you are a guy! They are telling me that too. Ack!!Momma One of them sent me an e-mail saying: "how would you like nine inches!?!?!?!" I wrote an e-mail back saying: "Why would I want to cut off three inches?!?!?!" :) -Tony

Haven't you figured it yet Tony ? Its *width* that counts!!!!!
(and what other things you do of course).

bogey

Tony Miller wrote:
On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:28:16 GMT, Everyboysmomma <noway@maine.rr.com> wrote:"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in messagenews:slrnch4p8o.ack.tony@home.cigardiary.co m...On 5 Aug 2004 08:35:59 -0700, Caren<caren50@msn.com> wrote:<Snip>>Unfortunately, height and penis size can't change>for men.That's not what 4 or 5 spams a day tell me! :)-TonyCrikey! At least you are a guy! They are telling me that too. Ack!!Momma One of them sent me an e-mail saying: "how would you like nine inches!?!?!?!" I wrote an e-mail back saying: "Why would I want to cut off three inches?!?!?!" :) -Tony

Haven't you figured it yet Tony ? Its *width* that counts!!!!!
(and what other things you do of course).

bogey

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0408050435.3cd42f78@posting.google.c om... I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school.

I am 6'1" 200 lbs, If I stand on a milk crate you don't have to get on you
kneecaps, now THAT is a plus in any relationship:)

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0408050435.3cd42f78@posting.google.c om... I'm only 5'. I was 4'11" all through high school.

I am 6'1" 200 lbs, If I stand on a milk crate you don't have to get on you
kneecaps, now THAT is a plus in any relationship:)

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>... Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are lookingtheir best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportionwith his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn intostrapping young men :-) :-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered "kid's menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point. It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter! Sheila

Time will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging than
the 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:
1. get her hair streaked
2. get her hair braided
3. go out tolunch
4. go get frozen yogurt
5. get a pedicure
6. go to Build a Bear
7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hair

We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can
streak her hair when she is 50 :-)

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>... Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are lookingtheir best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportionwith his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn intostrapping young men :-) :-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered "kid's menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point. It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter! Sheila

Time will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging than
the 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:
1. get her hair streaked
2. get her hair braided
3. go out tolunch
4. go get frozen yogurt
5. get a pedicure
6. go to Build a Bear
7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hair

We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can
streak her hair when she is 50 :-)

>whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in messagenews:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>... Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids arelookingtheir best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportionwith his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn intostrapping young men :-) :-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid's menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point. It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter! SheilaTime will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging thanthe 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:1. get her hair streaked2. get her hair braided3. go out tolunch4. go get frozen yogurt5. get a pedicure6. go to Build a Bear7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hairWe did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-)

:-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is
very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair
stuff, oy! and the clothes!!!

Sheila

>whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in messagenews:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>... Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids arelookingtheir best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportionwith his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn intostrapping young men :-) :-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid's menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point. It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter! SheilaTime will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging thanthe 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:1. get her hair streaked2. get her hair braided3. go out tolunch4. go get frozen yogurt5. get a pedicure6. go to Build a Bear7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hairWe did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-)

:-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is
very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair
stuff, oy! and the clothes!!!

Sheila

WhansaMi wrote:
whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in messagenews:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids arelooking>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>strapping young men :-):-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid'smenus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!SheilaTime will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging thanthe 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:1. get her hair streaked2. get her hair braided3. go out tolunch4. go get frozen yogurt5. get a pedicure6. go to Build a Bear7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hairWe did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!!

Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ?

My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced
at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced.
Her mother (my ex) and I both said no.

The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed*
when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little
girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs.
She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast.

bogey

WhansaMi wrote:
whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in messagenews:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids arelooking>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>strapping young men :-):-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid'smenus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!SheilaTime will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging thanthe 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:1. get her hair streaked2. get her hair braided3. go out tolunch4. go get frozen yogurt5. get a pedicure6. go to Build a Bear7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hairWe did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!!

Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ?

My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced
at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced.
Her mother (my ex) and I both said no.

The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed*
when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little
girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs.
She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast.

bogey

WhansaMi wrote: Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

A quick post from a lurker. I was very small and skinny in high school
(67 lbs and 4'-8" as a Sophmore). The bottom line is that you will get
through it. People may stuff you in a locker or whatever. You can
protect yourself two ways. One, be willing. There will always be
bullys. They won't pick on someone who fights back (it is simply too
much work, and there is no glory in working to beat up someone that much
smaller). Two be verbally dexterous, if you can make them laugh or
embarous them, they won't want you as a target.

Most importantly, he is likely to end up taller than all of them. I am
now over six feet in height. The people that picked on me in high school
work at gas stations. Reading and studying have served me well.
However, I recommend martial arts or boxing. Something to instill
confidence. Just my opinion from one who was there.

Shawn

WhansaMi wrote: Okay, here's the deal. DS is 14 years old. He's always been small (5th percentile for height throughout most of his life, although, I remember one point where he was on the 20th percentile line on the graph). He's a good kid, bright, polite, good sense of humor, but not at all athletic. At middle school he was thought very highly of by his teachers, and had a group of about 6 or 7 boys that he hung out with, had lunch with, etc. They, like him, tended toward the computer-geek-type (gamers), although, according to his teachers, he was liked by most of the other kids. I saw this myself as we would walk to and from the school... other kids made it a point to say hi to him. He is a bit shy, but really does get his energy by being with others. I tease him that he is a contradiction --- a shy extrovert! So, next year he goes to high school. He is very anxious about it, and more than one comment makes me think that his height is part of it. For instance, I said something today about our littlest dog thinking, "It's hard to be a little dog" and DS says, "Tell me about it. You don't have to tell me about the "l" word!" He's made jokes that someone might actually put him in a locker. He is, of course, also anxious that he might not have any classes with his friends. Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure it is a liability for boys. As his dad tells it, he was the shortest, skinniest kid in school until he was sixteen, when he "shot up" (all the way to 5'9"! ;-)). Any suggestions anyone can make about how to help him? Sheila

A quick post from a lurker. I was very small and skinny in high school
(67 lbs and 4'-8" as a Sophmore). The bottom line is that you will get
through it. People may stuff you in a locker or whatever. You can
protect yourself two ways. One, be willing. There will always be
bullys. They won't pick on someone who fights back (it is simply too
much work, and there is no glory in working to beat up someone that much
smaller). Two be verbally dexterous, if you can make them laugh or
embarous them, they won't want you as a target.

Most importantly, he is likely to end up taller than all of them. I am
now over six feet in height. The people that picked on me in high school
work at gas stations. Reading and studying have served me well.
However, I recommend martial arts or boxing. Something to instill
confidence. Just my opinion from one who was there.

Shawn

x-no-archive: yes

WhansaMi wrote:
:-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It isvery hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up,hairstuff, oy! and the clothes!!!

I'm kind of relieved, myself, by the way things have turned out. My 9 1/2 year
old daughter despises the whole "girly thing." Apparently, the girls at her
school want to talk fashion, makeup, nail color, and guys. My daughter just
wants to be left on her own to either read or play kickball with the boys....

beeswing

x-no-archive: yes

WhansaMi wrote:
:-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It isvery hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up,hairstuff, oy! and the clothes!!!

I'm kind of relieved, myself, by the way things have turned out. My 9 1/2 year
old daughter despises the whole "girly thing." Apparently, the girls at her
school want to talk fashion, makeup, nail color, and guys. My daughter just
wants to be left on her own to either read or play kickball with the boys....

beeswing

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0408050441.7eca571d@posting.google.c om... "Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2ne44aFv7muhU1@uni-berlin.de>...
The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter than me.

There's a huge variation on when and for how long growth spurts kick in and
it confuses the heck out me, too. Most girls taper off in height growth
after the onset of menarche, though, so don't expect your girls to grow too
much taller once that happens.
Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister easily will top that.

I'm wondering if my daughter will even reach my height. Both of her
grandmothers were just under 5', I'm almost 5' 3', her father and
grandfathers were/are 6' and she's almost the smallest child in her school.
(She's also one of the youngest.) She's very like her paternal grandmother
in body type. At almost 12.5 she's about 4' 11" (25th percentile as always)
and there has been no to little sign of an extra growth spurt yet...
anywhere... <cough>

I've just had a look at the table for girls and it looks like if she stays
on her curve she will be exactly my height. (now I just need to check my
boys' projections - this is fun. lol) I'm short but not so much that it ever
worried me. Except when buying clothes, that is. And reaching for the top
shelf in the supermarket, or finding my feet don't quite touch the ground
unless I sit well forward in many chairs and having to skip to keep up when
walking with great big blokes with long strides and ... oh well... :)

Hmmmm.. Average men's height is about 177cm - approx 5' 10.5" DS3 has
followed 55/45 percentiles for H/W since birth so he has a bit of a head
start on his big brother.

Tai

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0408050441.7eca571d@posting.google.c om... "Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2ne44aFv7muhU1@uni-berlin.de>...
The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter than me.

There's a huge variation on when and for how long growth spurts kick in and
it confuses the heck out me, too. Most girls taper off in height growth
after the onset of menarche, though, so don't expect your girls to grow too
much taller once that happens.
Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister easily will top that.

I'm wondering if my daughter will even reach my height. Both of her
grandmothers were just under 5', I'm almost 5' 3', her father and
grandfathers were/are 6' and she's almost the smallest child in her school.
(She's also one of the youngest.) She's very like her paternal grandmother
in body type. At almost 12.5 she's about 4' 11" (25th percentile as always)
and there has been no to little sign of an extra growth spurt yet...
anywhere... <cough>

I've just had a look at the table for girls and it looks like if she stays
on her curve she will be exactly my height. (now I just need to check my
boys' projections - this is fun. lol) I'm short but not so much that it ever
worried me. Except when buying clothes, that is. And reaching for the top
shelf in the supermarket, or finding my feet don't quite touch the ground
unless I sit well forward in many chairs and having to skip to keep up when
walking with great big blokes with long strides and ... oh well... :)

Hmmmm.. Average men's height is about 177cm - approx 5' 10.5" DS3 has
followed 55/45 percentiles for H/W since birth so he has a bit of a head
start on his big brother.

Tai

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805221126.22153.00001132@mb-m07.aol.com...
Oh... and no, my daughter does not own any thong underwear. :-)

I'm thrilled to know it. :)

Tai
(deeply prejudiced on this issue.)

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805221126.22153.00001132@mb-m07.aol.com...
Oh... and no, my daughter does not own any thong underwear. :-)

I'm thrilled to know it. :)

Tai
(deeply prejudiced on this issue.)

x-no-archive: yes

beeswing wrote: x-no-archive: yes WhansaMi wrote::-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It isvery hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up,hairstuff, oy! and the clothes!!! I'm kind of relieved, myself, by the way things have turned out. My 9 1/2 year old daughter despises the whole "girly thing." Apparently, the girls at her school want to talk fashion, makeup, nail color, and guys. My daughter just wants to be left on her own to either read or play kickball with the boys....

Yeah, last year we were asked to a meeting at our daughter's school
to discuss her progress (learning disorder.) One other subject brought
up was that our daughter spent a lot of time playing alone during
recess and that the school felt it was a 'problem'. We went home and
asked her and her reply was <and I quote> 'Well, I do play with D and
E <her two best friends> some of the time but when they want to go
chase the boys around, I don't want to so I play by myself.'

Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally putting
my foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter not
wanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her.
Sheesh.

Tracey

x-no-archive: yes

beeswing wrote: x-no-archive: yes WhansaMi wrote::-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It isvery hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up,hairstuff, oy! and the clothes!!! I'm kind of relieved, myself, by the way things have turned out. My 9 1/2 year old daughter despises the whole "girly thing." Apparently, the girls at her school want to talk fashion, makeup, nail color, and guys. My daughter just wants to be left on her own to either read or play kickball with the boys....

Yeah, last year we were asked to a meeting at our daughter's school
to discuss her progress (learning disorder.) One other subject brought
up was that our daughter spent a lot of time playing alone during
recess and that the school felt it was a 'problem'. We went home and
asked her and her reply was <and I quote> 'Well, I do play with D and
E <her two best friends> some of the time but when they want to go
chase the boys around, I don't want to so I play by myself.'

Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally putting
my foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter not
wanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her.
Sheesh.

Tracey

"Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:411305F0.7010207@aol.com... Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally putting my foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter not wanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her. Sheesh.

Sheesh, indeed!

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I haven't got a "girly girl"
daughter. She's unimpressed by most pop-culture (except BTVS and "Charmed"),
makeup and fashion trends. Having an older brother or clear-eyed observation
has taken the mystery out of boys, too.

Mind you, the apple doesn't fall far from the there. :)

Tai

"Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:411305F0.7010207@aol.com... Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally putting my foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter not wanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her. Sheesh.

Sheesh, indeed!

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I haven't got a "girly girl"
daughter. She's unimpressed by most pop-culture (except BTVS and "Charmed"),
makeup and fashion trends. Having an older brother or clear-eyed observation
has taken the mystery out of boys, too.

Mind you, the apple doesn't fall far from the there. :)

Tai

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805102106.04158.00002488@mb-m15.aol.com... Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure
it is
LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could hook
up!

LOL he'd probaby love to! I'm not sure if we have the online version. I have
to say, though, that he's on bandwidth restrictions since he downloaded Halo
software to the tune of half our monthly allowance last month. The first
time he had ignorance as an excuse but the second time was.....wilful!
Grrrrrr....

those. When my DD started middle school last year, he was telling her
about the different cliques. He told her she'd probably be with the popular
kids, but "I'll never been in the popular group because I'm not into pop culture
and I'm too smart. I have to be in the nerd group."

Ha hah ha... Theses kids slay me!

I had a similar conversation with my son. He told me that most of his
friends were nerds but he isn't because his also a bit sporty but he would
be a nerd if he wasn't. it's all about proprtion and nuances, apparently,
and they all know the rules. I had such a hard job not giggling all through
his analysis.
[A small brag: He got back his scores for the state mandated proficency
test. He scored on the highest level in four of the five tests, including the geometry, which he took in 8th grade. Yayayay!]

Brag away, proud mama. :)

Aside: Our kids have state wide testing done in 3rd, 5th and 7th grades.
(And 11 and 12th but that's for uni and tertiary studies entry.) DD12 did
her tests this week and we'll get the results later in the year. The schools
don't get the indivudual scores, just the totals and percentages which
doesn't please them, much. I have to admit to finding the results reports
very satisfying to read in the past. ;)
Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and
aspart of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontistwas able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt bylooking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you afortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information. The good news is that he inherited my teeth -- no need for orthodontia!
DD on the other hand..... <sigh>

Daughter's are worse than son's...sigh...

I have hopes for the baby, probably of the false kind.

Tai

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805102106.04158.00002488@mb-m15.aol.com... Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sure
it is
LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could hook
up!

LOL he'd probaby love to! I'm not sure if we have the online version. I have
to say, though, that he's on bandwidth restrictions since he downloaded Halo
software to the tune of half our monthly allowance last month. The first
time he had ignorance as an excuse but the second time was.....wilful!
Grrrrrr....

those. When my DD started middle school last year, he was telling her
about the different cliques. He told her she'd probably be with the popular
kids, but "I'll never been in the popular group because I'm not into pop culture
and I'm too smart. I have to be in the nerd group."

Ha hah ha... Theses kids slay me!

I had a similar conversation with my son. He told me that most of his
friends were nerds but he isn't because his also a bit sporty but he would
be a nerd if he wasn't. it's all about proprtion and nuances, apparently,
and they all know the rules. I had such a hard job not giggling all through
his analysis.
[A small brag: He got back his scores for the state mandated proficency
test. He scored on the highest level in four of the five tests, including the geometry, which he took in 8th grade. Yayayay!]

Brag away, proud mama. :)

Aside: Our kids have state wide testing done in 3rd, 5th and 7th grades.
(And 11 and 12th but that's for uni and tertiary studies entry.) DD12 did
her tests this week and we'll get the results later in the year. The schools
don't get the indivudual scores, just the totals and percentages which
doesn't please them, much. I have to admit to finding the results reports
very satisfying to read in the past. ;)
Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and
aspart of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontistwas able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt bylooking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you afortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information. The good news is that he inherited my teeth -- no need for orthodontia!
DD on the other hand..... <sigh>

Daughter's are worse than son's...sigh...

I have hopes for the baby, probably of the false kind.

Tai

>> Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sureit is LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could hookup!LOL he'd probaby love to! I'm not sure if we have the online version. I haveto say, though, that he's on bandwidth restrictions since he downloaded Halosoftware to the tune of half our monthly allowance last month. The firsttime he had ignorance as an excuse but the second time was.....wilful!Grrrrrr....

Well, check with him. If he's interested, I'll get DS's name so they can
"meet". :-)

DS is mostly playing Morrowind these days, which is a PC game, but not online.


Sheila

>> Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm sureit is LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could hookup!LOL he'd probaby love to! I'm not sure if we have the online version. I haveto say, though, that he's on bandwidth restrictions since he downloaded Halosoftware to the tune of half our monthly allowance last month. The firsttime he had ignorance as an excuse but the second time was.....wilful!Grrrrrr....

Well, check with him. If he's interested, I'll get DS's name so they can
"meet". :-)

DS is mostly playing Morrowind these days, which is a PC game, but not online.


Sheila

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040806004158.22153.00001150@mb-m07.aol.com... Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm
sureit is LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could
hookup!LOL he'd probaby love to! I'm not sure if we have the online version. I
haveto say, though, that he's on bandwidth restrictions since he downloaded
Halosoftware to the tune of half our monthly allowance last month. The firsttime he had ignorance as an excuse but the second time was.....wilful!Grrrrrr.... Well, check with him. If he's interested, I'll get DS's name so they can "meet". :-) DS is mostly playing Morrowind these days, which is a PC game, but not
online.

Morrowind is a *great* game. The downloadable content available is
staggering.

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040806004158.22153.00001150@mb-m07.aol.com... Sheila:>> Can I help? Being small can be a bonus for girls, but I'm
sureit is LOL! DS plays Halo too. Do you have the online version? They could
hookup!LOL he'd probaby love to! I'm not sure if we have the online version. I
haveto say, though, that he's on bandwidth restrictions since he downloaded
Halosoftware to the tune of half our monthly allowance last month. The firsttime he had ignorance as an excuse but the second time was.....wilful!Grrrrrr.... Well, check with him. If he's interested, I'll get DS's name so they can "meet". :-) DS is mostly playing Morrowind these days, which is a PC game, but not
online.

Morrowind is a *great* game. The downloadable content available is
staggering.

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never understood it. So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite gals!

*ROFL* Yeah, Jen, I'm a shorty too, so I understand your position...I'm
5'3". :-) My DH is 6'3", so I know from cricks in the neck. YOWCH! And I
hate to wear heels, so basically it hurts to dance with him. When we go out
dancing, I like to dance with a friend of mine; he's about 5'7", and I LOVE
it!!!

Personally, I love tall guys, and that attitude is unfair to shorter guys
but it's true. I spoke with my sister more tonight about her son (nephew
who turns 16 next month). He's still unhappy about being short, but he's
dealing with it because he has to. I find taller guys more attractive and
masculine than short guys, and I'm sure it's wired into our genes somewhere
to go for a taller, stronger, more physically capable mate.

I've never known short guys to like tall women; IME, they've typically
always wanted to be taller than their mates. AAMOF, I can't think of any
couples of close acquaintance where the woman is taller, except for my mom
and dad (and they're both shrinking anyway). :-D

Jennifer

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
That's probably an extreme, but it clicked with me that maybe all these short guys in high school felt that by dating a taller girl they'd somehow look taller themselves?? I dunno! I just never understood it. So Jennifer & Sheila, please encourage your boys to date us petite gals!

*ROFL* Yeah, Jen, I'm a shorty too, so I understand your position...I'm
5'3". :-) My DH is 6'3", so I know from cricks in the neck. YOWCH! And I
hate to wear heels, so basically it hurts to dance with him. When we go out
dancing, I like to dance with a friend of mine; he's about 5'7", and I LOVE
it!!!

Personally, I love tall guys, and that attitude is unfair to shorter guys
but it's true. I spoke with my sister more tonight about her son (nephew
who turns 16 next month). He's still unhappy about being short, but he's
dealing with it because he has to. I find taller guys more attractive and
masculine than short guys, and I'm sure it's wired into our genes somewhere
to go for a taller, stronger, more physically capable mate.

I've never known short guys to like tall women; IME, they've typically
always wanted to be taller than their mates. AAMOF, I can't think of any
couples of close acquaintance where the woman is taller, except for my mom
and dad (and they're both shrinking anyway). :-D

Jennifer

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter than me. Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister easily will top that.

Based on her parents and then on her own growth, SD was supposed to be 6'.
Her BM is only 5'3" and DH is 6'3", but SD was always the tallest. She was
*enormously* tall at 2 years old! :-) It seemed like she'd never stop, but
suddenly she stopped at just under 5'9".

My nephew who's 18 grew 6 inches when he was nearly 15 and hasn't grown
since. My brothers stayed pretty short until mid-adolescence but ended up
at 6'.

DS10 is just above average for height, but I think he'll be taller than that
as an adult, based on his genetic makeup. It all seems so difficult to
predict! I remember when DS10 was a preemie, I was *so* encouraged when a
nurse told me that her own son, all 6'5" and 200+ pounds of him, had been
born a preemie and she was sure he'd never be bigger than the palm of her
hand. :-)

I'm still waiting to grow taller.

Jennifer

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
The curves confuse me. According to the curves, my DD11 is supposed to end up only 5 feet tall, and DD10 is projected to be taller, maybe even 5'4." But so far, DD11 seems to be outstripping expectations. Her feet are the same size as mine and she's already just one inch shorter than me. Meanwhile, DD10 is a peanut that's not growing very fast compared to her sister at the same age. Maybe she'll have a growth spurt soon, but I dunno. She seems destined to reach only 5 feet, while her sister easily will top that.

Based on her parents and then on her own growth, SD was supposed to be 6'.
Her BM is only 5'3" and DH is 6'3", but SD was always the tallest. She was
*enormously* tall at 2 years old! :-) It seemed like she'd never stop, but
suddenly she stopped at just under 5'9".

My nephew who's 18 grew 6 inches when he was nearly 15 and hasn't grown
since. My brothers stayed pretty short until mid-adolescence but ended up
at 6'.

DS10 is just above average for height, but I think he'll be taller than that
as an adult, based on his genetic makeup. It all seems so difficult to
predict! I remember when DS10 was a preemie, I was *so* encouraged when a
nurse told me that her own son, all 6'5" and 200+ pounds of him, had been
born a preemie and she was sure he'd never be bigger than the palm of her
hand. :-)

I'm still waiting to grow taller.

Jennifer

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805113902.04158.00002492@mb-m15.aol.com...
DD is very small... right around 4'9' at nearly 14. She is adopted, and
her birthmother is about 5'3", her birthfather was 5'2" (or thereabouts) *and*
she was diagnosed with failure to thrive, which doctors predict will take up
to 3 inches off her adult height. We figure she'll probably top out at about
4'11 or 5'. She'd like to be taller (her best friend is about 5'7") but, I
think as she gets older she will see the advantages of being a short woman. Fortuntately, both of my kids are slender (although DD has been filling
out a bit this year --- Jennifer, I think you'll be surprised when you see her
next!)

Gah! Filling out! ;-) This is getting scary. My niece, at 10, is getting
all curvy, and it just seems so sudden. My sister and I were talking about
development this evening, and I mentioned that something that is different
about raising girls is that adolescence just comes up and *wham*!! there's
no avoiding it. You can *see* when the girls are shooting up and growing
out. With boys it's more subtle.
so weight isn't an issue. In fact, since you can see every single rib in
DS's back when he's sleeping, I'd like for him to gain a bit!

I used to wish DS would gain more weight, because he's the same way (little
bony ribby guy, lol)...but the more I read about the problems with obesity
and children, I just feel incredibly reassured that I don't have that
particular problem on my plate!

Jennifer

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805113902.04158.00002492@mb-m15.aol.com...
DD is very small... right around 4'9' at nearly 14. She is adopted, and
her birthmother is about 5'3", her birthfather was 5'2" (or thereabouts) *and*
she was diagnosed with failure to thrive, which doctors predict will take up
to 3 inches off her adult height. We figure she'll probably top out at about
4'11 or 5'. She'd like to be taller (her best friend is about 5'7") but, I
think as she gets older she will see the advantages of being a short woman. Fortuntately, both of my kids are slender (although DD has been filling
out a bit this year --- Jennifer, I think you'll be surprised when you see her
next!)

Gah! Filling out! ;-) This is getting scary. My niece, at 10, is getting
all curvy, and it just seems so sudden. My sister and I were talking about
development this evening, and I mentioned that something that is different
about raising girls is that adolescence just comes up and *wham*!! there's
no avoiding it. You can *see* when the girls are shooting up and growing
out. With boys it's more subtle.
so weight isn't an issue. In fact, since you can see every single rib in
DS's back when he's sleeping, I'd like for him to gain a bit!

I used to wish DS would gain more weight, because he's the same way (little
bony ribby guy, lol)...but the more I read about the problems with obesity
and children, I just feel incredibly reassured that I don't have that
particular problem on my plate!

Jennifer

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
In many peoples' minds there is a loose association between being talk and being a leader and maybe being male and strong and all that stuff. There's the female liking for taller men and so on. See... that always irks me when people refer to this "female liking for taller men!"

I mentioned it elsewhere too. :-) I think it's statistically provable
though, isn't it? Not that I'm going to spend time on research...but I know
I've read a lot of studies that women select taller men as opposed to
shorter men.
When I'm at a bar, I notice the short guys first, because we're closer to eye-to-eye. But they don't notice me. They're all looking up, I guess, and therefore over the top of my head.

I love that I can always find my DH in a crowd because he's the one head and
shoulders above the rest. I love that I can refer to him as "the tall guy
with the beard." :-)

Jennifer

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
In many peoples' minds there is a loose association between being talk and being a leader and maybe being male and strong and all that stuff. There's the female liking for taller men and so on. See... that always irks me when people refer to this "female liking for taller men!"

I mentioned it elsewhere too. :-) I think it's statistically provable
though, isn't it? Not that I'm going to spend time on research...but I know
I've read a lot of studies that women select taller men as opposed to
shorter men.
When I'm at a bar, I notice the short guys first, because we're closer to eye-to-eye. But they don't notice me. They're all looking up, I guess, and therefore over the top of my head.

I love that I can always find my DH in a crowd because he's the one head and
shoulders above the rest. I love that I can refer to him as "the tall guy
with the beard." :-)

Jennifer

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805102106.04158.00002488@mb-m15.aol.com...
[A small brag: He got back his scores for the state mandated proficency
test. He scored on the highest level in four of the five tests, including the geometry, which he took in 8th grade. Yayayay!]

WOOHOO!!! That's excellent!
Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and
aspart of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontistwas able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt bylooking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you afortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information. The good news is that he inherited my teeth -- no need for orthodontia!
DD on the other hand..... <sigh>

DH has his braces now (since March), DD10 just got hers on, DS10 is about to
get his on...and DD6 will be next in a few years, so at one point it's
possible I'll have 4 household members in braces. Meanwhile, SD17 is done
with her braces. May I mention that I have very good teeth & never needed
orthodontia?? It hardly seems fair!

Jennifer

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040805102106.04158.00002488@mb-m15.aol.com...
[A small brag: He got back his scores for the state mandated proficency
test. He scored on the highest level in four of the five tests, including the geometry, which he took in 8th grade. Yayayay!]

WOOHOO!!! That's excellent!
Just as an aside, my son started some orthodontic treatment recently and
aspart of the evaluation his mouth and wrist were x-rayed. The Orthodontistwas able to tell him that he was just about to start his growth spurt bylooking at his wrist development. If your son's mouth is costing you afortune it's possible his Orthodontist has similar information. The good news is that he inherited my teeth -- no need for orthodontia!
DD on the other hand..... <sigh>

DH has his braces now (since March), DD10 just got hers on, DS10 is about to
get his on...and DD6 will be next in a few years, so at one point it's
possible I'll have 4 household members in braces. Meanwhile, SD17 is done
with her braces. May I mention that I have very good teeth & never needed
orthodontia?? It hardly seems fair!

Jennifer

Tai wrote: or finding my feet don't quite touch the ground unless I sit well forward in many chairs

hehehe.. I have that same problem at 5'4". It's weird to sit in public
and not have your toes touch.

Oddly, my ex, who was 6'1" also had that problem- we both had the same
inseam of 29 1/2 inches. I have a short torso, his was, well.. really
weird.

My SO is 6'1", but his body is a much better proportion- all around much
better <EG>
and having to skip to keep up when walking with great big blokes with long strides and ... oh well... :)

lol..
Hmmmm.. Average men's height is about 177cm - approx 5' 10.5" DS3 has followed 55/45 percentiles for H/W since birth so he has a bit of a head start on his big brother.

I don't recall much about the kids percentiles, except that they were
both extremely high, son was off the charts in weight at birth- 10lbs.

DD was 8lbs 13 oz. DS is still big at 6'1", size 14 shoe. DD is 5'4",
rock solid muscles at 135lbs, size nine shoe.

Wonder where their baby books are?
Cal~ Tai

Tai wrote: or finding my feet don't quite touch the ground unless I sit well forward in many chairs

hehehe.. I have that same problem at 5'4". It's weird to sit in public
and not have your toes touch.

Oddly, my ex, who was 6'1" also had that problem- we both had the same
inseam of 29 1/2 inches. I have a short torso, his was, well.. really
weird.

My SO is 6'1", but his body is a much better proportion- all around much
better <EG>
and having to skip to keep up when walking with great big blokes with long strides and ... oh well... :)

lol..
Hmmmm.. Average men's height is about 177cm - approx 5' 10.5" DS3 has followed 55/45 percentiles for H/W since birth so he has a bit of a head start on his big brother.

I don't recall much about the kids percentiles, except that they were
both extremely high, son was off the charts in weight at birth- 10lbs.

DD was 8lbs 13 oz. DS is still big at 6'1", size 14 shoe. DD is 5'4",
rock solid muscles at 135lbs, size nine shoe.

Wonder where their baby books are?
Cal~ Tai

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2ngg8hFkfhaU1@uni-berlin.de...
<snip> I have hopes for the baby, probably of the false kind.

False hopes or false teeth???
Sorry... I couldn't resist
Momma

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2ngg8hFkfhaU1@uni-berlin.de...
<snip> I have hopes for the baby, probably of the false kind.

False hopes or false teeth???
Sorry... I couldn't resist
Momma

bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...

We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!! Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ? My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced. Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed* when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs. She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast. bogey

DD11-nearly-12 is angling to have her ears pierced. I've told her she
could have it done when she gets her period (as a sort of rite of
passage/private commemoration of that event) *or* turns 13, whichever
comes first. And that she must be the one to pay for it, out of her
allowance.

She's also experimenting with makeup right now. She's not allowed to
wear it out of the house until she's much older, but I did give her a
kit to play with and practice. She puts it on right before her bath -
shows me for my critique - then washes it off in the bath. I have to
admit she's getting pretty good with it and has a light hand.

As for hairdying, since I highlight my own, I'm not about to tell her
not to, but I do often tell her there's really no reason right now
because her hair color is gorgeous and naturally highlighted. Maybe
someday when she's older, like me, and starts to lose the color. But
right now? Don't mess with perfection!

I do take both DD's in to my salon a couple times a year as a big
treat. My hairdresser has a lot of fun with them and gives them a
great cut. We get manicures too and make a day out of it.

DD11 recently mentioned that maybe some day she would like to get a
little stud in her eyebrow, to accentuate her very pretty eyes. Also
she tests me and teases me about what-would-mom-do-if-I-got-a-tattoo
someday? Her afterschool caregivers, whom she looks up to, are all in
their 20s and several of them have tattoos.

We've talked several times about FASHION. I tell them that the fun
thing about fashion is that you can change it whenever you get bored.
You can change your clothes, your hair color, your hair style, your
makeup. That's the whole point with fashion. I tell them Mom would not
object if one day my daughter came home with bright pink spiky hair.
Because it's reversible. Have fun, enjoy.

However, when it comes to body peircings and tattoos, that's a
different story. You can't easily undo them. I am a firm believer that
it's their body and I want to raise them with respect for their own
bodies, so ultimately (once they are out of the house) it is their
choice, and I'd respect that. But if it were me, I'd think long and
hard about any fashion statement that is permanent!

As for thongs and slutwear for preteens, I'm pretty lucky because DD
has conservative tastes so far, although this past year she did
graduate from Lands' End to Old Navy. I was relieved that she turned
her nose up at the slutwear clothes at the Limited Too and preferred
Old Navy, which is inexpensive *and* fairly tasteful. She's very
particular when she shops, and we have a lot of fun together shopping.
She passed up all the shorts with words on the butt because she
considered them tacky! And she was fussy about any shirt that revealed
her bra straps.

Of course, all that could change as she's entering middle school this
fall! But DD11 has never been a pushover to peer pressure and has
always marched to the beat of a different drummer. DD10, OTOH, is
another story..... I suspect I'll really be in for it when she reaches
adolescence!!! She's been so easy-going up until now, so I suspect
she's the one I need to really keep an eye on...

jen

bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...

We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!! Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ? My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced. Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed* when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs. She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast. bogey

DD11-nearly-12 is angling to have her ears pierced. I've told her she
could have it done when she gets her period (as a sort of rite of
passage/private commemoration of that event) *or* turns 13, whichever
comes first. And that she must be the one to pay for it, out of her
allowance.

She's also experimenting with makeup right now. She's not allowed to
wear it out of the house until she's much older, but I did give her a
kit to play with and practice. She puts it on right before her bath -
shows me for my critique - then washes it off in the bath. I have to
admit she's getting pretty good with it and has a light hand.

As for hairdying, since I highlight my own, I'm not about to tell her
not to, but I do often tell her there's really no reason right now
because her hair color is gorgeous and naturally highlighted. Maybe
someday when she's older, like me, and starts to lose the color. But
right now? Don't mess with perfection!

I do take both DD's in to my salon a couple times a year as a big
treat. My hairdresser has a lot of fun with them and gives them a
great cut. We get manicures too and make a day out of it.

DD11 recently mentioned that maybe some day she would like to get a
little stud in her eyebrow, to accentuate her very pretty eyes. Also
she tests me and teases me about what-would-mom-do-if-I-got-a-tattoo
someday? Her afterschool caregivers, whom she looks up to, are all in
their 20s and several of them have tattoos.

We've talked several times about FASHION. I tell them that the fun
thing about fashion is that you can change it whenever you get bored.
You can change your clothes, your hair color, your hair style, your
makeup. That's the whole point with fashion. I tell them Mom would not
object if one day my daughter came home with bright pink spiky hair.
Because it's reversible. Have fun, enjoy.

However, when it comes to body peircings and tattoos, that's a
different story. You can't easily undo them. I am a firm believer that
it's their body and I want to raise them with respect for their own
bodies, so ultimately (once they are out of the house) it is their
choice, and I'd respect that. But if it were me, I'd think long and
hard about any fashion statement that is permanent!

As for thongs and slutwear for preteens, I'm pretty lucky because DD
has conservative tastes so far, although this past year she did
graduate from Lands' End to Old Navy. I was relieved that she turned
her nose up at the slutwear clothes at the Limited Too and preferred
Old Navy, which is inexpensive *and* fairly tasteful. She's very
particular when she shops, and we have a lot of fun together shopping.
She passed up all the shorts with words on the butt because she
considered them tacky! And she was fussy about any shirt that revealed
her bra straps.

Of course, all that could change as she's entering middle school this
fall! But DD11 has never been a pushover to peer pressure and has
always marched to the beat of a different drummer. DD10, OTOH, is
another story..... I suspect I'll really be in for it when she reaches
adolescence!!! She's been so easy-going up until now, so I suspect
she's the one I need to really keep an eye on...

jen

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ngfgiFl6d1U1@uni-berlin.de>... "Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in message news:411305F0.7010207@aol.com... Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally putting my foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter not wanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her. Sheesh. Sheesh, indeed! I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I haven't got a "girly girl" daughter. She's unimpressed by most pop-culture (except BTVS and "Charmed"), makeup and fashion trends. Having an older brother or clear-eyed observation has taken the mystery out of boys, too. Mind you, the apple doesn't fall far from the there. :) Tai

Ah... don't get too comfortable with that thought. :0

DDnearly12 was always a tomboy until she turned 11. Overnight
something changed, and it wasn't just the physical signs of puberty.
:-) Her whole attitude has changed and she's very much a "girly girl"
now. She's into makeup, piercings, clothes, hair. She spends hours in
the bathtub each night and hours playing with her hair and staring
into the mirror at herself. She even had her first crush this past
year!

Secretly, DF, my ex, and I already have her first serious boyfriend
picked out. :-) There's this one kid in her class. She has yet to give
him the time of day, of course, but I suspect this is going to change
once he starts puberty himself. He is a loner (like my DD) with
flaming red hair and freckles, and a Bob Dillon personality. He writes
poetry that is shockingly good and mature for someone that age, very
dark and moody, insightful, and ironic (classic Idealist like DD).
We're all betting this is the kid DDnearly12 is going to lose her
heart to in high school. :-)

Meanwhile, DD10 is just starting to show signs of impending puberty.
Oy, I'm in for it with two preteens in the house, huh? DD10 was born a
girly girl, but then switched into tomboy mode in the last few years
because her best friend is a tomboy. I have this feeling all that is
going to change soon. It'll be interesting!

jen

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ngfgiFl6d1U1@uni-berlin.de>... "Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in message news:411305F0.7010207@aol.com... Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally putting my foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter not wanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her. Sheesh. Sheesh, indeed! I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I haven't got a "girly girl" daughter. She's unimpressed by most pop-culture (except BTVS and "Charmed"), makeup and fashion trends. Having an older brother or clear-eyed observation has taken the mystery out of boys, too. Mind you, the apple doesn't fall far from the there. :) Tai

Ah... don't get too comfortable with that thought. :0

DDnearly12 was always a tomboy until she turned 11. Overnight
something changed, and it wasn't just the physical signs of puberty.
:-) Her whole attitude has changed and she's very much a "girly girl"
now. She's into makeup, piercings, clothes, hair. She spends hours in
the bathtub each night and hours playing with her hair and staring
into the mirror at herself. She even had her first crush this past
year!

Secretly, DF, my ex, and I already have her first serious boyfriend
picked out. :-) There's this one kid in her class. She has yet to give
him the time of day, of course, but I suspect this is going to change
once he starts puberty himself. He is a loner (like my DD) with
flaming red hair and freckles, and a Bob Dillon personality. He writes
poetry that is shockingly good and mature for someone that age, very
dark and moody, insightful, and ironic (classic Idealist like DD).
We're all betting this is the kid DDnearly12 is going to lose her
heart to in high school. :-)

Meanwhile, DD10 is just starting to show signs of impending puberty.
Oy, I'm in for it with two preteens in the house, huh? DD10 was born a
girly girl, but then switched into tomboy mode in the last few years
because her best friend is a tomboy. I have this feeling all that is
going to change soon. It'll be interesting!

jen

bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>... WhansaMi wrote:whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in messagenews:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...>Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids arelooking>>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>>strapping young men :-)>>>:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid's>menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.>>It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!>>SheilaTime will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging thanthe 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:1. get her hair streaked2. get her hair braided3. go out tolunch4. go get frozen yogurt5. get a pedicure6. go to Build a Bear7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hairWe did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!! Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ?

1`. Because it isn't good for your hair
2. She has absolutely georgous thick, dark, long and straight hair
3. She is 9 and has the rest of her life to ruin her hair with
chemicals
4. She doesn't get whatever she asks for
5. I'd like her to stay a kid for as long as possible
6. She is beautiful as is and I'd like her to learn that early on

Any other questions?
My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced. Her mother (my ex) and I both said no.

You said no at the navel. I said no at the hair. The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed* when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs. She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast. bogey

For me bogey, hair is beautiful before it starts getting processed.
I'm still working on the inner beauty thing with her.

bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>... WhansaMi wrote:whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in messagenews:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...>Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids arelooking>>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>>strapping young men :-)>>>:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered"kid's>menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.>>It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!>>SheilaTime will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging thanthe 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:1. get her hair streaked2. get her hair braided3. go out tolunch4. go get frozen yogurt5. get a pedicure6. go to Build a Bear7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hairWe did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she canstreak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!! Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ?

1`. Because it isn't good for your hair
2. She has absolutely georgous thick, dark, long and straight hair
3. She is 9 and has the rest of her life to ruin her hair with
chemicals
4. She doesn't get whatever she asks for
5. I'd like her to stay a kid for as long as possible
6. She is beautiful as is and I'd like her to learn that early on

Any other questions?
My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced. Her mother (my ex) and I both said no.

You said no at the navel. I said no at the hair. The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed* when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs. She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast. bogey

For me bogey, hair is beautiful before it starts getting processed.
I'm still working on the inner beauty thing with her.

Caren wrote:
bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...WhansaMi wrote:>whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message>news:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...>>>>Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are>>looking>>>>>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>>>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>>>strapping young men :-)>>>>>>:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered>>"kid's>>>>menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.>>>>It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!>>>>Sheila>>Time will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging than>the 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:>1. get her hair streaked>2. get her hair braided>3. go out tolunch>4. go get frozen yogurt>5. get a pedicure>6. go to Build a Bear>7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hair>>We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can>streak her hair when she is 50 :-):-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It isvery hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hairstuff, oy! and the clothes!!!Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ? 1`. Because it isn't good for your hair 2. She has absolutely georgous thick, dark, long and straight hair 3. She is 9 and has the rest of her life to ruin her hair with chemicals 4. She doesn't get whatever she asks for 5. I'd like her to stay a kid for as long as possible 6. She is beautiful as is and I'd like her to learn that early on Any other questions?My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears piercedat 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced.Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. You said no at the navel. I said no at the hair.The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed*when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a littlegirl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs.She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast.bogey For me bogey, hair is beautiful before it starts getting processed. I'm still working on the inner beauty thing with her.


I see she has a controlling mother.

I'm on her side. It will grow again. Its *her* body (and mind, soul,
heart also) not yours or anyone elses. Our role is to support
them in their growth, they are not ours.

Your right in law of course but when something is harmless
... well its your choice.

bogey

Caren wrote:
bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...WhansaMi wrote:>whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message>news:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...>>>>Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are>>looking>>>>>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>>>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>>>strapping young men :-)>>>>>>:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered>>"kid's>>>>menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.>>>>It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!>>>>Sheila>>Time will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging than>the 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:>1. get her hair streaked>2. get her hair braided>3. go out tolunch>4. go get frozen yogurt>5. get a pedicure>6. go to Build a Bear>7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hair>>We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can>streak her hair when she is 50 :-):-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It isvery hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hairstuff, oy! and the clothes!!!Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ? 1`. Because it isn't good for your hair 2. She has absolutely georgous thick, dark, long and straight hair 3. She is 9 and has the rest of her life to ruin her hair with chemicals 4. She doesn't get whatever she asks for 5. I'd like her to stay a kid for as long as possible 6. She is beautiful as is and I'd like her to learn that early on Any other questions?My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears piercedat 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced.Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. You said no at the navel. I said no at the hair.The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed*when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a littlegirl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs.She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast.bogey For me bogey, hair is beautiful before it starts getting processed. I'm still working on the inner beauty thing with her.


I see she has a controlling mother.

I'm on her side. It will grow again. Its *her* body (and mind, soul,
heart also) not yours or anyone elses. Our role is to support
them in their growth, they are not ours.

Your right in law of course but when something is harmless
... well its your choice.

bogey

shinypenny wrote:
"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ngfgiFl6d1U1@uni-berlin.de>..."Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:411305F0.7010207@aol.com...Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally puttingmy foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter notwanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her.Sheesh.Sheesh, indeed!I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I haven't got a "girly girl"daughter. She's unimpressed by most pop-culture (except BTVS and "Charmed"),makeup and fashion trends. Having an older brother or clear-eyed observationhas taken the mystery out of boys, too.Mind you, the apple doesn't fall far from the there. :)Tai Ah... don't get too comfortable with that thought. :0 DDnearly12 was always a tomboy until she turned 11. Overnight something changed, and it wasn't just the physical signs of puberty. :-) Her whole attitude has changed and she's very much a "girly girl" now. She's into makeup, piercings, clothes, hair. She spends hours in the bathtub each night and hours playing with her hair and staring into the mirror at herself. She even had her first crush this past year! Secretly, DF, my ex, and I already have her first serious boyfriend picked out. :-) There's this one kid in her class. She has yet to give him the time of day, of course, but I suspect this is going to change once he starts puberty himself. He is a loner (like my DD) with flaming red hair and freckles, and a Bob Dillon personality. He writes poetry that is shockingly good and mature for someone that age, very dark and moody, insightful, and ironic (classic Idealist like DD). We're all betting this is the kid DDnearly12 is going to lose her heart to in high school. :-) Meanwhile, DD10 is just starting to show signs of impending puberty. Oy, I'm in for it with two preteens in the house, huh? DD10 was born a girly girl, but then switched into tomboy mode in the last few years because her best friend is a tomboy. I have this feeling all that is going to change soon. It'll be interesting! jen

same here. mine changed overnight. it was probably the day
her hormones switched on which was also the day a queue of
boys appeared outside the door - it was like one day no
interest then the next day you couldn't keep them
away.

bogey

shinypenny wrote:
"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ngfgiFl6d1U1@uni-berlin.de>..."Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:411305F0.7010207@aol.com...Took a couple of hours of talking with the school and finally puttingmy foot down that there was nothing *wrong* with my daughter notwanting to chase the boys and try to get them to say they liked her.Sheesh.Sheesh, indeed!I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I haven't got a "girly girl"daughter. She's unimpressed by most pop-culture (except BTVS and "Charmed"),makeup and fashion trends. Having an older brother or clear-eyed observationhas taken the mystery out of boys, too.Mind you, the apple doesn't fall far from the there. :)Tai Ah... don't get too comfortable with that thought. :0 DDnearly12 was always a tomboy until she turned 11. Overnight something changed, and it wasn't just the physical signs of puberty. :-) Her whole attitude has changed and she's very much a "girly girl" now. She's into makeup, piercings, clothes, hair. She spends hours in the bathtub each night and hours playing with her hair and staring into the mirror at herself. She even had her first crush this past year! Secretly, DF, my ex, and I already have her first serious boyfriend picked out. :-) There's this one kid in her class. She has yet to give him the time of day, of course, but I suspect this is going to change once he starts puberty himself. He is a loner (like my DD) with flaming red hair and freckles, and a Bob Dillon personality. He writes poetry that is shockingly good and mature for someone that age, very dark and moody, insightful, and ironic (classic Idealist like DD). We're all betting this is the kid DDnearly12 is going to lose her heart to in high school. :-) Meanwhile, DD10 is just starting to show signs of impending puberty. Oy, I'm in for it with two preteens in the house, huh? DD10 was born a girly girl, but then switched into tomboy mode in the last few years because her best friend is a tomboy. I have this feeling all that is going to change soon. It'll be interesting! jen

same here. mine changed overnight. it was probably the day
her hormones switched on which was also the day a queue of
boys appeared outside the door - it was like one day no
interest then the next day you couldn't keep them
away.

bogey

bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4113a94f$0$519$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>... Caren wrote: bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...WhansaMi wrote:>>whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message>>news:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...>>>>>>>Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are>>>>looking>>>>>>>>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>>>>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>>>>strapping young men :-)>>>>>>>>>:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered>>>>"kid's>>>>>>>menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.>>>>>>It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!>>>>>>Sheila>>>>Time will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging than>>the 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:>>1. get her hair streaked>>2. get her hair braided>>3. go out tolunch>>4. go get frozen yogurt>>5. get a pedicure>>6. go to Build a Bear>>7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hair>>>>We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can>>streak her hair when she is 50 :-)>>>:-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is>very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair>stuff, oy! and the clothes!!!Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ? 1`. Because it isn't good for your hair 2. She has absolutely georgous thick, dark, long and straight hair 3. She is 9 and has the rest of her life to ruin her hair with chemicals 4. She doesn't get whatever she asks for 5. I'd like her to stay a kid for as long as possible 6. She is beautiful as is and I'd like her to learn that early on Any other questions?My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears piercedat 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced.Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. You said no at the navel. I said no at the hair.The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed*when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a littlegirl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs.She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast.bogey For me bogey, hair is beautiful before it starts getting processed. I'm still working on the inner beauty thing with her. I see she has a controlling mother.

And I see that you have a judgemental attitude. Simply because a nine
year old's hair will grow back does not make a controlling parent.
Her father happens to agree as well. She has plenty of time to act
like a grown up. This is her time to still be a kid.
I'm on her side. It will grow again. Its *her* body (and mind, soul, heart also) not yours or anyone elses. Our role is to support them in their growth, they are not ours. Your right in law of course but when something is harmless ... well its your choice. bogey

Thanks for letting me know it's my choice. ;-)

bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4113a94f$0$519$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>... Caren wrote: bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...WhansaMi wrote:>>whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message>>news:<20040805114421.04158.00002493@mb-m15.aol.com>...>>>>>>>Caren: >Also, remember, age 14 is not exactly the age where kids are>>>>looking>>>>>>>>their best :-) I remember that my son's body was not in proportion>>>>with his head and ears. But they outgrow the gawkiness and turn into>>>>strapping young men :-)>>>>>>>>>:-) We haven't yet gotten to gawkiness with him. He still gets offered>>>>"kid's>>>>>>>menus" when we go to restaurants. But, I see your point.>>>>>>It sounds like you've done a great job with your daughter!>>>>>>Sheila>>>>Time will tell. She's almost 10 and has been more challenging than>>the 26 year old ever was. Today she asked if she could:>>1. get her hair streaked>>2. get her hair braided>>3. go out tolunch>>4. go get frozen yogurt>>5. get a pedicure>>6. go to Build a Bear>>7. go to my friend's house to see if she'd braid her hair>>>>We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can>>streak her hair when she is 50 :-)>>>:-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is>very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair>stuff, oy! and the clothes!!!Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ? 1`. Because it isn't good for your hair 2. She has absolutely georgous thick, dark, long and straight hair 3. She is 9 and has the rest of her life to ruin her hair with chemicals 4. She doesn't get whatever she asks for 5. I'd like her to stay a kid for as long as possible 6. She is beautiful as is and I'd like her to learn that early on Any other questions?My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears piercedat 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced.Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. You said no at the navel. I said no at the hair.The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed*when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a littlegirl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs.She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast.bogey For me bogey, hair is beautiful before it starts getting processed. I'm still working on the inner beauty thing with her. I see she has a controlling mother.

And I see that you have a judgemental attitude. Simply because a nine
year old's hair will grow back does not make a controlling parent.
Her father happens to agree as well. She has plenty of time to act
like a grown up. This is her time to still be a kid.
I'm on her side. It will grow again. Its *her* body (and mind, soul, heart also) not yours or anyone elses. Our role is to support them in their growth, they are not ours. Your right in law of course but when something is harmless ... well its your choice. bogey

Thanks for letting me know it's my choice. ;-)

shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<c8cb5319.0408060502.fe46be@posting.google.com>... bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...>We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can>streak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!! Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ?
\
No one can see the thong, so why not wear it? I'm being facetious. My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced. Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed* when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs. She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast. bogey DD11-nearly-12 is angling to have her ears pierced. I've told her she could have it done when she gets her period (as a sort of rite of passage/private commemoration of that event) *or* turns 13, whichever comes first. And that she must be the one to pay for it, out of her allowance.

I like that idea, although it's too late for us. My daughter got her
ears pierced in 1st or 2nd grade, I don't remember. To me it was
something that she wanted and I saw no harm in it.
She's also experimenting with makeup right now. She's not allowed to wear it out of the house until she's much older, but I did give her a kit to play with and practice. She puts it on right before her bath - shows me for my critique - then washes it off in the bath. I have to admit she's getting pretty good with it and has a light hand.


My daughter has loved make up for several years now (she is 9). She
can play with it too, but can't wear it outside. She does have
several lip glosses that she can wear that are clear and have
(heinous) tastes and smells.
As for hairdying, since I highlight my own, I'm not about to tell her not to, but I do often tell her there's really no reason right now because her hair color is gorgeous and naturally highlighted. Maybe someday when she's older, like me, and starts to lose the color. But right now? Don't mess with perfection!

That exactly was mypoint to Bogey, but I was called controlling for
it. And she is still 9 years old.
I do take both DD's in to my salon a couple times a year as a big treat. My hairdresser has a lot of fun with them and gives them a great cut. We get manicures too and make a day out of it.


About 5 years ago, both my daughter and I went to a salon and had our
hair cut for locks of love and were filmed for tv. We had our make up
done and talked to the news crew, etc. It was a lot of fun and for a
worthy cause. she actually did it again and plans to cut her hair and
donate it whenever it's long enough.
DD11 recently mentioned that maybe some day she would like to get a little stud in her eyebrow, to accentuate her very pretty eyes. Also she tests me and teases me about what-would-mom-do-if-I-got-a-tattoo someday? Her afterschool caregivers, whom she looks up to, are all in their 20s and several of them have tattoos.

Mine wants more ear peircings. I told her it's something that she can
do later. Also, when I told her that the higher up you go on that
ear, the more it hurts. She didin't like that news.
We've talked several times about FASHION. I tell them that the fun thing about fashion is that you can change it whenever you get bored. You can change your clothes, your hair color, your hair style, your makeup. That's the whole point with fashion. I tell them Mom would not object if one day my daughter came home with bright pink spiky hair. Because it's reversible. Have fun, enjoy. However, when it comes to body peircings and tattoos, that's a different story. You can't easily undo them. I am a firm believer that it's their body and I want to raise them with respect for their own bodies, so ultimately (once they are out of the house) it is their choice, and I'd respect that. But if it were me, I'd think long and hard about any fashion statement that is permanent! As for thongs and slutwear for preteens, I'm pretty lucky because DD has conservative tastes so far, although this past year she did graduate from Lands' End to Old Navy. I was relieved that she turned her nose up at the slutwear clothes at the Limited Too and preferred Old Navy, which is inexpensive *and* fairly tasteful. She's very particular when she shops, and we have a lot of fun together shopping. She passed up all the shorts with words on the butt because she considered them tacky! And she was fussy about any shirt that revealed her bra straps.

A few girls in my daughter's 4th grade class last year wore those
really low pants and had their lacy and glittery panties sticking out.
My daughter thought it was "gross". So she still likes the cotton
tie dyed underwear that I buy.
Of course, all that could change as she's entering middle school this fall! But DD11 has never been a pushover to peer pressure and has always marched to the beat of a different drummer. DD10, OTOH, is another story..... I suspect I'll really be in for it when she reaches adolescence!!! She's been so easy-going up until now, so I suspect she's the one I need to really keep an eye on... jen

This is all such a trip to me. In this aspect, my son was so much
easier.

shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<c8cb5319.0408060502.fe46be@posting.google.com>... bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>...>We did go out for lunch and get frozen yogurt. I told her she can>streak her hair when she is 50 :-) :-) I let DD get very subtle highlights in the front when she was 12. It is very hard to know when it okay to do these things, these days -- make-up, hair stuff, oy! and the clothes!!! Well hair streaking isn't permanent so why not at any age ?
\
No one can see the thong, so why not wear it? I'm being facetious. My daughter did this stuff. She's 13 now. She had her ears pierced at 11 (as did all her friends). Now she wants her navel pierced. Her mother (my ex) and I both said no. The other day I was clothes shopping for her and was *amazed* when she was looking at buying a thong. To me she's a little girl and far too young to be thinking about things like thongs. She soon put me in my place though. Don't they grow up fast. bogey DD11-nearly-12 is angling to have her ears pierced. I've told her she could have it done when she gets her period (as a sort of rite of passage/private commemoration of that event) *or* turns 13, whichever comes first. And that she must be the one to pay for it, out of her allowance.

I like that idea, although it's too late for us. My daughter got her
ears pierced in 1st or 2nd grade, I don't remember. To me it was
something that she wanted and I saw no harm in it.
She's also experimenting with makeup right now. She's not allowed to wear it out of the house until she's much older, but I did give her a kit to play with and practice. She puts it on right before her bath - shows me for my critique - then washes it off in the bath. I have to admit she's getting pretty good with it and has a light hand.


My daughter has loved make up for several years now (she is 9). She
can play with it too, but can't wear it outside. She does have
several lip glosses that she can wear that are clear and have
(heinous) tastes and smells.
As for hairdying, since I highlight my own, I'm not about to tell her not to, but I do often tell her there's really no reason right now because her hair color is gorgeous and naturally highlighted. Maybe someday when she's older, like me, and starts to lose the color. But right now? Don't mess with perfection!

That exactly was mypoint to Bogey, but I was called controlling for
it. And she is still 9 years old.
I do take both DD's in to my salon a couple times a year as a big treat. My hairdresser has a lot of fun with them and gives them a great cut. We get manicures too and make a day out of it.


About 5 years ago, both my daughter and I went to a salon and had our
hair cut for locks of love and were filmed for tv. We had our make up
done and talked to the news crew, etc. It was a lot of fun and for a
worthy cause. she actually did it again and plans to cut her hair and
donate it whenever it's long enough.
DD11 recently mentioned that maybe some day she would like to get a little stud in her eyebrow, to accentuate her very pretty eyes. Also she tests me and teases me about what-would-mom-do-if-I-got-a-tattoo someday? Her afterschool caregivers, whom she looks up to, are all in their 20s and several of them have tattoos.

Mine wants more ear peircings. I told her it's something that she can
do later. Also, when I told her that the higher up you go on that
ear, the more it hurts. She didin't like that news.
We've talked several times about FASHION. I tell them that the fun thing about fashion is that you can change it whenever you get bored. You can change your clothes, your hair color, your hair style, your makeup. That's the whole point with fashion. I tell them Mom would not object if one day my daughter came home with bright pink spiky hair. Because it's reversible. Have fun, enjoy. However, when it comes to body peircings and tattoos, that's a different story. You can't easily undo them. I am a firm believer that it's their body and I want to raise them with respect for their own bodies, so ultimately (once they are out of the house) it is their choice, and I'd respect that. But if it were me, I'd think long and hard about any fashion statement that is permanent! As for thongs and slutwear for preteens, I'm pretty lucky because DD has conservative tastes so far, although this past year she did graduate from Lands' End to Old Navy. I was relieved that she turned her nose up at the slutwear clothes at the Limited Too and preferred Old Navy, which is inexpensive *and* fairly tasteful. She's very particular when she shops, and we have a lot of fun together shopping. She passed up all the shorts with words on the butt because she considered them tacky! And she was fussy about any shirt that revealed her bra straps.

A few girls in my daughter's 4th grade class last year wore those
really low pants and had their lacy and glittery panties sticking out.
My daughter thought it was "gross". So she still likes the cotton
tie dyed underwear that I buy.
Of course, all that could change as she's entering middle school this fall! But DD11 has never been a pushover to peer pressure and has always marched to the beat of a different drummer. DD10, OTOH, is another story..... I suspect I'll really be in for it when she reaches adolescence!!! She's been so easy-going up until now, so I suspect she's the one I need to really keep an eye on... jen

This is all such a trip to me. In this aspect, my son was so much
easier.

Caren wrote: A few girls in my daughter's 4th grade class last year wore those really low pants and had their lacy and glittery panties sticking out. My daughter thought it was "gross". So she still likes the cotton tie dyed underwear that I buy.

4th grade in thongs and low-rise pants!!! -- wow, who is watching those
girls, unfortunately, not their parents.

My daughter is 16.5 y/o. She doesn't want to wear that kind of stuff
thankfully. If she did, I would be considered as controlling as bogey
has accused Caren of being because I don't think I'd be willing to pay
for that for her.

She is (thankfully) extremely modest. Bathing suit shopping this summer
was a trip--- several trips actually, to find one w/o much skin showing,
but still not a 'one piece'. She's two different sizes, so a one piece
doesn't cut it, but God Forbid a little bit of her tummy shows. The
Angst! hehe..

Cal~

42 hours!!!.... 15 more minutes and I can go to bed!!!... hopefully
won't 'see' anyone for at least 12 hours (umm.. I *wish*)..

Caren wrote: A few girls in my daughter's 4th grade class last year wore those really low pants and had their lacy and glittery panties sticking out. My daughter thought it was "gross". So she still likes the cotton tie dyed underwear that I buy.

4th grade in thongs and low-rise pants!!! -- wow, who is watching those
girls, unfortunately, not their parents.

My daughter is 16.5 y/o. She doesn't want to wear that kind of stuff
thankfully. If she did, I would be considered as controlling as bogey
has accused Caren of being because I don't think I'd be willing to pay
for that for her.

She is (thankfully) extremely modest. Bathing suit shopping this summer
was a trip--- several trips actually, to find one w/o much skin showing,
but still not a 'one piece'. She's two different sizes, so a one piece
doesn't cut it, but God Forbid a little bit of her tummy shows. The
Angst! hehe..

Cal~

42 hours!!!.... 15 more minutes and I can go to bed!!!... hopefully
won't 'see' anyone for at least 12 hours (umm.. I *wish*)..

>Caren wrote: A few girls in my daughter's 4th grade class last year wore those really low pants and had their lacy and glittery panties sticking out. My daughter thought it was "gross". So she still likes the cotton tie dyed underwear that I buy.4th grade in thongs and low-rise pants!!! -- wow, who is watching thosegirls, unfortunately, not their parents.My daughter is 16.5 y/o. She doesn't want to wear that kind of stuffthankfully. If she did, I would be considered as controlling as bogeyhas accused Caren of being because I don't think I'd be willing to payfor that for her.

Hey, Cal and Caren, don't worry about it. I've been called controlling by
people *much* better than bogey. ;-)

Sheila
She is (thankfully) extremely modest. Bathing suit shopping this summerwas a trip--- several trips actually, to find one w/o much skin showing,but still not a 'one piece'. She's two different sizes, so a one piecedoesn't cut it, but God Forbid a little bit of her tummy shows. TheAngst! hehe..Cal~ 42 hours!!!.... 15 more minutes and I can go to bed!!!... hopefullywon't 'see' anyone for at least 12 hours (umm.. I *wish*)..

>Caren wrote: A few girls in my daughter's 4th grade class last year wore those really low pants and had their lacy and glittery panties sticking out. My daughter thought it was "gross". So she still likes the cotton tie dyed underwear that I buy.4th grade in thongs and low-rise pants!!! -- wow, who is watching thosegirls, unfortunately, not their parents.My daughter is 16.5 y/o. She doesn't want to wear that kind of stuffthankfully. If she did, I would be considered as controlling as bogeyhas accused Caren of being because I don't think I'd be willing to payfor that for her.

Hey, Cal and Caren, don't worry about it. I've been called controlling by
people *much* better than bogey. ;-)

Sheila
She is (thankfully) extremely modest. Bathing suit shopping this summerwas a trip--- several trips actually, to find one w/o much skin showing,but still not a 'one piece'. She's two different sizes, so a one piecedoesn't cut it, but God Forbid a little bit of her tummy shows. TheAngst! hehe..Cal~ 42 hours!!!.... 15 more minutes and I can go to bed!!!... hopefullywon't 'see' anyone for at least 12 hours (umm.. I *wish*)..

"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3754f0b3.0408062012.29394ff5@posting.google.c om... shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message
news:<c8cb5319.0408060502.fe46be@posting.google.com>... bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>... \ No one can see the thong, so why not wear it? I'm being facetious.

I'm *not* being facetious. To me, it is just underwear. My own daughter is
very modest, but occasionally wears a thong - because under some clothing
her "regular" underwear leaves a panty line, and she is modest enough to not
want her underwear to show, even as a line. I don't have a problem with
it - it seems like a practical solution to the pantyline problem.

Joy

"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3754f0b3.0408062012.29394ff5@posting.google.c om... shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message
news:<c8cb5319.0408060502.fe46be@posting.google.com>... bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>... \ No one can see the thong, so why not wear it? I'm being facetious.

I'm *not* being facetious. To me, it is just underwear. My own daughter is
very modest, but occasionally wears a thong - because under some clothing
her "regular" underwear leaves a panty line, and she is modest enough to not
want her underwear to show, even as a line. I don't have a problem with
it - it seems like a practical solution to the pantyline problem.

Joy

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10ha0vv3fpmd35c@corp.supernews.com>... "Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message news:3754f0b3.0408062012.29394ff5@posting.google.c om... shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<c8cb5319.0408060502.fe46be@posting.google.com>... bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>... \ No one can see the thong, so why not wear it? I'm being facetious. I'm *not* being facetious. To me, it is just underwear. My own daughter is very modest, but occasionally wears a thong - because under some clothing her "regular" underwear leaves a panty line, and she is modest enough to not want her underwear to show, even as a line. I don't have a problem with it - it seems like a practical solution to the pantyline problem. Joy

Is she 9?

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10ha0vv3fpmd35c@corp.supernews.com>... "Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message news:3754f0b3.0408062012.29394ff5@posting.google.c om... shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<c8cb5319.0408060502.fe46be@posting.google.com>... bogart <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:<4112ceeb$0$59459$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>... \ No one can see the thong, so why not wear it? I'm being facetious. I'm *not* being facetious. To me, it is just underwear. My own daughter is very modest, but occasionally wears a thong - because under some clothing her "regular" underwear leaves a panty line, and she is modest enough to not want her underwear to show, even as a line. I don't have a problem with it - it seems like a practical solution to the pantyline problem. Joy

Is she 9?

Bill in Co. <surly8curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote:
How can anyone wear those things? I would think it would be excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Beats me. They like wedgies?

Bill in Co. <surly8curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote:
How can anyone wear those things? I would think it would be excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Beats me. They like wedgies?

mbjq@earthlink.net (Emma Anne) wrote in message news:<1gi93m2.1k571mv36m52N%mbjq@earthlink.net>... Bill in Co. <surly8curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote: How can anyone wear those things? I would think it would be excruciatingly uncomfortable. Beats me. They like wedgies?

Depends on the thickness of the floss :-)

mbjq@earthlink.net (Emma Anne) wrote in message news:<1gi93m2.1k571mv36m52N%mbjq@earthlink.net>... Bill in Co. <surly8curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote: How can anyone wear those things? I would think it would be excruciatingly uncomfortable. Beats me. They like wedgies?

Depends on the thickness of the floss :-)

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about bras? My daughter is wearing one of those little training bras, sort of like a sports bra. She really doesn't "need" to wear one but given that she is just beginning to develop, she is very self conscious. We look at bras anytime that we're in a store and believe it or not, there are PADDED training bras. Also lacy and frilly beginner bras.

Well exactly. Children like to feel grown up and that's
perfectlu understandable.

bogey

"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3754f0b3.0408101929.4e09d98a@posting.google.c om... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<10higjqk4lma233@corp.supernews.com>...
As far as clothing goes, I won't allow her to wear shirts that have mean messages like "boys are stupid" or "aren't I cute" or the word "butt" written on the rear of her shorts. She did ask for a "mean" shirt one day and I told her that it's okay to think certain thoughts but it's not okay to walk around announcing it to the world. We were shopping tonight and the problem for her is that she is a tall girl, very long legs and 9 years old wearing size 12. The size 12 clothes in my opinion are looking rather slutty. Fortunately she's okay when I say no, it's too sophisticated looking, she moves on and tries to find something else. Even the shoes! she has big feet and she no longer fits into girls shoes. Women's shoes often have high or clunky heels that are totally gross for her.

I had the most trouble out of shoes! For a long time I simply wouldn't buy
anything with high heels. This for a girl who wears a size 8 women's shoe.
We'd stand in the shoe store and argue over some ridiculous shoe that she
thought was darling and I thought was setting her up for foot/back problems
on top of looking way too old for her.

"Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OCiSc.17208$9Y6.7483@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about whether or not a
panty line shows? Who cares?? WHY is that SO important? I would think what is most important is what you are *comfortable* wearing. I
honestly don't get it.

My daughter tells me that when you are a middle school or high school school
student you just don't want boys to be able to see your underwear at all,
even if it is just a panty line.

For an adult, there are some fabrics that seem to show a panty line more
than others - polyester blend dress pants being a notorious offender. Some
women don't like to think that while giving a presentation somebody could be
thinking about whether they are wearing bikinis or briefs instead of paying
attention to the presentation. Not that women think men think about such
things. :-)

Joy wrote:
"Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:OCiSc.17208$9Y6.7483@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about whether or not a pantyline shows? Who cares?? WHY is that SO important? I would thinkwhat is most important is what you are *comfortable* wearing. I honestlydon't get it. My daughter tells me that when you are a middle school or high school school student you just don't want boys to be able to see your underwear at all, even if it is just a panty line. For an adult, there are some fabrics that seem to show a panty line more than others - polyester blend dress pants being a notorious offender. Some women don't like to think that while giving a presentation somebody could be thinking about whether they are wearing bikinis or briefs instead of paying attention to the presentation. Not that women think men think about such things. :-)

I presume you were being sarchastic - of course they do ;-).

bogey

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411a09e2$0$534$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Joy wrote: "Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:OCiSc.17208$9Y6.7483@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about whether or not a pantyline shows? Who cares?? WHY is that SO important? I would
thinkwhat is most important is what you are *comfortable* wearing. I honestlydon't get it. My daughter tells me that when you are a middle school or high school
school student you just don't want boys to be able to see your underwear at
all, even if it is just a panty line. For an adult, there are some fabrics that seem to show a panty line more than others - polyester blend dress pants being a notorious offender.
Some women don't like to think that while giving a presentation somebody
could be thinking about whether they are wearing bikinis or briefs instead of
paying attention to the presentation. Not that women think men think about
such things. :-) I presume you were being sarchastic - of course they do ;-). bogey

I may have been acquainted with one or two over the years that could
possible have had a fleeting thought along those lines ;-)

"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3754f0b3.0408110651.6f8e2259@posting.google.c om...
It's one of those things that some women worry about I suppose. Quite frankly, I don't care if someone knows I'm wearing underwear. I associate thongs with something that turns my husband on not with avoiding the dreaded "panty line". Vanity has never been one of my strong points. Remember, I'm the card carrying sweat pants mom :-)

My pet peeve about sweats is they have tiny pockets, making carrying the
card difficult.

Joy wrote: "Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:OCiSc.17208$9Y6.7483@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about whether or not a
panty line shows? Who cares?? WHY is that SO important? I would
think what is most important is what you are *comfortable* wearing. I
honestly don't get it. My daughter tells me that when you are a middle school or high school
school student you just don't want boys to be able to see your underwear at all, even if it is just a panty line. For an adult, there are some fabrics that seem to show a panty line more than others - polyester blend dress pants being a notorious offender.
Some women don't like to think that while giving a presentation somebody could
be thinking about whether they are wearing bikinis or briefs instead of
paying attention to the presentation. Not that women think men think about such things. :-)

I must be out of the loop, staying too secluded here (and out of reach of
the public for the most part - fortunately). I thought most of the time
the fabrics were opaque enough to cover that - either that, or I haven't
been paying attention.

I mean, if you go to hear a presentation, that's what you're there for.
Ummm, I mean if she came in wearing a biquini, or a really low cut or
otherwise provocative outfit, that might be different, but....

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> writes:
"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message news:3754f0b3.0408110651.6f8e2259@posting.google.c om... It's one of those things that some women worry about I suppose. Quite frankly, I don't care if someone knows I'm wearing underwear. I associate thongs with something that turns my husband on not with avoiding the dreaded "panty line". Vanity has never been one of my strong points. Remember, I'm the card carrying sweat pants mom :-) My pet peeve about sweats is they have tiny pockets, making carrying the card difficult.

OK, combining the sweat pants and thong branches of this thread. I
saw something this afternoon which I would have simply averted my eyes
from and forgotten about immediately except for having my
consciousness raised by this thread.

A rather overweight young woman (young seems to mean "younger than me"
these days - she was probably 30); I'd guess 5'4" and 200-230 pounds
if I had to guess, wearing sweat pants around her hips, with the
waistband of a thong clearly visible above (not through) her pants
around her waist.

I'm all for people wearing whatever they are comfortable in, but I
have to say it went through my head "what _were_ you thinking when you
got dressed in the morning?"

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08y8kl8jgt.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> writes: "Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message news:3754f0b3.0408110651.6f8e2259@posting.google.c om... It's one of those things that some women worry about I suppose. Quite frankly, I don't care if someone knows I'm wearing underwear. I associate thongs with something that turns my husband on not with avoiding the dreaded "panty line". Vanity has never been one of my strong points. Remember, I'm the card carrying sweat pants mom :-) My pet peeve about sweats is they have tiny pockets, making carrying the card difficult. OK, combining the sweat pants and thong branches of this thread. I saw something this afternoon which I would have simply averted my eyes from and forgotten about immediately except for having my consciousness raised by this thread. A rather overweight young woman (young seems to mean "younger than me" these days - she was probably 30); I'd guess 5'4" and 200-230 pounds if I had to guess, wearing sweat pants around her hips, with the waistband of a thong clearly visible above (not through) her pants around her waist. I'm all for people wearing whatever they are comfortable in, but I have to say it went through my head "what _were_ you thinking when you got dressed in the morning?"

thanks for the visual....

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Caren wrote:

Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook, the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are large enough to carry what I need. This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ?

simple - no phone. No palm pilot.

Who needs all that crap anyway....

No checkbook (use a debit card) - everything fits in wallet.

Sunglasses either on forehead or on a string around neck

keys in other pocket.

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? bogey

I know several guys who carry a backpack to hold their stuff. They seem to
feel it is more masculine than a purse, while still fulfilling the same
function. Other guys seem to use a briefcase the same way.

JWB wrote:
"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...Caren wrote:Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook,the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets arelarge enough to carry what I need.This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse itmay be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets withpockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway....

well I do actually.
No checkbook (use a debit card) - everything fits in wallet.

I don't carry a cheque book.
Sunglasses either on forehead or on a string around neck

What when its raining ? Don't be silly. keys in other pocket.

without a jacket ? OUCH!

bogey

Joy wrote:
"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse itmay be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets withpockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ?bogey I know several guys who carry a backpack to hold their stuff. They seem to feel it is more masculine than a purse, while still fulfilling the same function. Other guys seem to use a briefcase the same way.

yes, I usually carry a backpack.
there are times though, particularly when
going out for the evening, when a backpack
isn't ok. at those times I usually just carry
my phone, keys and a single credit card.

Its a real nuisance though - this is what handbags
are for and except for maybe makeup and sometimes
feminine hygene I can't see that men need carry
less than women.

bogey

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411aa811$0$33315$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net... Joy wrote: "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse itmay be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets withpockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ?bogey I know several guys who carry a backpack to hold their stuff. They seem
to feel it is more masculine than a purse, while still fulfilling the same function. Other guys seem to use a briefcase the same way. yes, I usually carry a backpack. there are times though, particularly when going out for the evening, when a backpack isn't ok. at those times I usually just carry my phone, keys and a single credit card. Its a real nuisance though - this is what handbags are for and except for maybe makeup and sometimes feminine hygene I can't see that men need carry less than women. bogey

I feel the same way. It is such a practical thing.

JWB wrote: "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Caren wrote: Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook, the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are large enough to carry what I need. This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway....

Nobody needs it, but few are in touch with themselves enough to know that.
Don't let the secret out! Besides, what would they do with themselves,
if they didn't have that stuff to play with?

"Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:XqySc.18580$cK.11967@newsread2.news.pas.earth link.net... JWB wrote: "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Caren wrote:> Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook,> the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are> large enough to carry what I need. This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway.... Nobody needs it, but few are in touch with themselves enough to know that. Don't let the secret out! Besides, what would they do with themselves, if they didn't have that stuff to play with?

I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> wrote in message
news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.

You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for
that.

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for that.

Nobody needs to be making a call from the candy aisle at walmart

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for that.

Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-)

Jennifer

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> wrote in message
news:JlBSc.94954$4h7.11623266@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at
excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable
for that. Nobody needs to be making a call from the candy aisle at walmart

Huh?

My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer has
this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the system
we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house, when
she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination, and
when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with for a
teenager.

This hasn't come up as much with my daughter yet, but with my son it worked
out great to be able to call him when he was out at night, or for him to be
able to call me if he was going to be late for some reason. Or for him to
be able to call me when he didn't brake in time and hit the car in front of
him...

"Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at
excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable
for that. Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-) Jennifer

You don't want them to be able to call you if they're going to be late? Or
have car trouble?

Maybe I'd feel differently if either of my kids had been the type to talk on
the phone for hours on end, but they don't. They seem to use the phone
about like I do - as a means to convey information when necessary. Even my
daughter doesn't spend a lot of time chatting on the phone, so it just seems
like a useful tool to me.

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> wrote in message
news:JlBSc.94954$4h7.11623266@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at
excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable
for that. Nobody needs to be making a call from the candy aisle at walmart

My husband just bought my dad a cell phone. My mom already has one, but my
dad is nearly 75 and wanted one for safety on the road. So last night DH is
in the kitchen with my parents, 3 cell phones out (DH's, my mom's and my
dad's). They're all looking at the features and whatnot spread out on the
table.

Just to make a point, I went into the office and called all 3 cell phones at
the kitchen table. Everything started ringing, and my parents were going,
WTF?!! It was hilarious <evil grin>. DH figured out it was me quickly
enough, but all I did was yell from the office--"I want to watch our
movie!!" :-)

Jennifer

Jennifer wrote: Just to make a point, I went into the office and called all 3 cell phones at the kitchen table. Everything started ringing, and my parents were going, WTF?!! It was hilarious <evil grin>. DH figured out it was me quickly enough, but all I did was yell from the office--"I want to watch our movie!!" :-) Jennifer

All of our phones have specialized ringers..

My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can
quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting point..... my
son's ringer is Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir"... and the ringer for my SO is
Etta James "At Last".. :)..

The ringer for my ex is the most annoying ringer you can ever imagine..

I can't imagine my kids not having a cell phone. My daughter was
touring the country the last three weeks and her cell phone allowed us
to keep in touch.

My son is finally a licensed driver and he's out and about. Being a new
driver, I like that he has a phone if he needs to contact assistance. I
added roadside assistance to all of our phones as additional piece of
mind.

Cal~

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hlq2lr4q7d509@corp.supernews.com... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . > I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of
me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for that. Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-) Jennifer You don't want them to be able to call you if they're going to be late?
Or have car trouble?

I don't believe cell phones are necessary. We lived without them for
millennia. How did your parents keep a tab on you? People here still have
landlines. When SD was growing up, until she was 16 and her BM bought her a
cell phone against our wishes, we'd have her check in when she reached her
destination--not a Wal-Mart, but a friend's house. When I was younger and I
needed to call my parents, I could do it from work or a friend's house.

I think it can be addictive to get used to being able to reach your kids at
any moment. If my kid is going to be late, call from where you are. Even
my younger kids call from their location when they need to access me.
They're not wandering the streets needing pay phones, either, though at
times I'd make sure SD had change in case she needed to access one (I think
most pay phones have been removed these days, though!).

As far as car trouble...no, that's not a convincing argument for me that
kids need cell phones. By the time kids are driving, they're 16 years old.
My husband taught SD how to take care of her car, he gave her tons of safety
equipment for her trunk (flares and the like), and she knows how to hoof it
to an exit if need be. It's what we used to do if a car broke down.

I'm not going to deny that a cell phone can be useful at times. But it's
not necessary. DH and I both have them, by the way.

Occasionally if DD10 goes on a long walk with the dog, I hand her my cell
phone. That's always an option, as opposed to giving each kid his/her own
phone.
Maybe I'd feel differently if either of my kids had been the type to talk
on the phone for hours on end, but they don't. They seem to use the phone about like I do - as a means to convey information when necessary.

One reason I want my children to use a landline is because I do casual
eavesdropping. The best way to learn what your kids are up to is to know
whom they're talking to and when.

When kids have cell phones, they tend to live in their rooms more than they
usually would. It's the same reason I don't permit TVs or computers in
rooms, etc. When SD had her cell phone here, she had to plug it in
downstairs at 10 p.m. so she wouldn't be on it up in her room. We let that
rule fall by the wayside about a year ago when she went ballistic over "MY
phone!!!" because frankly we knew she felt torn between the rules at her
BM's house and the rules here, and it wasn't worth fighting over. For the
younger kids, there's no way they're going to have their own phones.

I feel very strongly that cell phones are an expensive luxury for my own
kids...YMMV. :-)

Jennifer

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o08n5F59m5vU1@uni-berlin.de... Jennifer wrote: Just to make a point, I went into the office and called all 3 cell phones at the kitchen table. Everything started ringing, and my parents were going, WTF?!! It was hilarious <evil grin>. DH figured out it was me quickly enough, but all I did was yell from the office--"I want to watch our movie!!" :-) Jennifer All of our phones have specialized ringers..

That was fun, picking out rings for my parents! LOL! Then I gave my mom a
"flower" wallpaper, and my dad liked it and wanted it, too. I had to tell
him that the entire point was to be able to distinguish his phone from my
mom's. I finally found a UFO wallpaper that he didn't hate. ;-)
My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting point..... my son's ringer is Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir"... and the ringer for my SO is Etta James "At Last".. :)..

Awwwww! That's great. :-)
I can't imagine my kids not having a cell phone. My daughter was touring the country the last three weeks and her cell phone allowed us to keep in touch.

I know that you get used to having it. I'm used to being able to call SD on
hers. I still don't like them! Call me a Luddite if you wish, lol. I just
remember it isn't that hard to be in touch with kids regardless of what sort
of phone you have. For instance, we have a long-distance calling plan. If
my daughter were touring the country, she'd check in occasionally from a
hotel or a friend's place, etc. I can't stand people yapping on cell phones
in public!!! (I do it occasionally and I have to smack myself.)
My son is finally a licensed driver and he's out and about. Being a new driver, I like that he has a phone if he needs to contact assistance. I added roadside assistance to all of our phones as additional piece of mind.

One option is to get a phone only for emergencies. You can keep that in the
child's car. I believe there's an option to have 911 capability only, and
it might even be free of charge for cell phones, regardless of paying for a
plan or not.

Jennifer

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com...
My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer
has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the
system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house,
when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination,
and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with for
a teenager.

I guess... but what would you have done ten years ago? I just can't
understand howe these things got so ingrained in our lives that we think
they are a necessity. I'm glad my parents didn't require I call them at work
when i left.

What does your boss think of you taking cell calls?
This hasn't come up as much with my daughter yet, but with my son it
worked out great to be able to call him when he was out at night, or for him to
be able to call me if he was going to be late for some reason. Or for him to be able to call me when he didn't brake in time and hit the car in front
of him...

I agree they are handy for the car. I'd like to see them left in glove boxes
:)

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o08n5F59m5vU1@uni-berlin.de...
My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting point.....

she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :)

Jennifer wrote: "_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message I can't imagine my kids not having a cell phone. My daughter was touring the country the last three weeks and her cell phone allowed us to keep in touch. I know that you get used to having it. I'm used to being able to call SD on hers. I still don't like them! Call me a Luddite if you wish, lol. I just remember it isn't that hard to be in touch with kids regardless of what sort of phone you have. For instance, we have a long-distance calling plan. If my daughter were touring the country, she'd check in occasionally from a hotel or a friend's place, etc. I can't stand people yapping on cell phones in public!!! (I do it occasionally and I have to smack myself.)

Well, except that she couldn't call from a hotel or a friends house.
She was living on a tour bus, sleeping on HS gym floors. She was
touring with a drum corps, with very strict schedules for everything.
12 states in less than three weeks. They only allowed very few minutes
a day to call home and they usually all called from the bus area at the
same time, lol.

Only those kids that had cell phones could call home. My daughter has
unlimited long distance, so she lent hers to a friend once, but since
there was no place to charge the phones, that was limited as well. Her
battery just barely made it home with some power.

As for calling from a friends house, because my kids go to a regional
school system, many of their friends are not local calls, but long
distance calls. This caused a problem when they want to call from
someone's house that is long distance to ours.

Having a cell phone saved them from being put in the position of asking
to make a long distance call. There are just too many good reasons to
have one, IMO.

I see little to no difference in whether a kid has a cell or landline
attached to their ears. If they are going to abuse a cell, they can
easily do so with their landlines as well. If you are able to put
restrictions on a landline, then it is just as easy to do with a cell..
but having a cell has so many benefits.

If you don't want the kid hiding upstairs with a cell.. then don't let
them.. easy as that. Neither of my kids goes anywhere near their
allotted time, so I know they don't abuse theirs. If they did, I would
be putting restrictions.

Cal~

JWB wrote: "_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2o08n5F59m5vU1@uni-berlin.de... My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting point..... she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :)

Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents?

Cal~

JWB wrote: "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer
has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the
system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house,
when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination,
and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with for
a teenager. I guess... but what would you have done ten years ago? I just can't understand howe these things got so ingrained in our lives that we think they are a necessity. I'm glad my parents didn't require I call them at
work when i left.

We were all dead 10 years ago. And the world didn't revolve around the
sun, either, at that time - this was the Dark Ages. (Actually, more like
20 years ago). Business AND personal life were at a standstill, only to
be "revitalized" by the cell phone. Haven't you been keeping up with your
history?

Jennifer wrote: "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlq2lr4q7d509@corp.supernews.com... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com...>> "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at> dot com> wrote in message> news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .>> I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.>> You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable
for> that. Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-) Jennifer You don't want them to be able to call you if they're going to be late?
Or have car trouble? I don't believe cell phones are necessary. We lived without them for millennia. How did your parents keep a tab on you? People here still
have landlines. When SD was growing up, until she was 16 and her BM bought her
a cell phone against our wishes, we'd have her check in when she reached her destination--not a Wal-Mart, but a friend's house. When I was younger and
I needed to call my parents, I could do it from work or a friend's house.

I think you're pulling our leg, Jennifer! I bet you also walked 5 miles
uphill thru the snow to get to school everyday, didn't ya?? My grandpappy
told me these things too, but I always knew he was ribbin us!!

By golly, I think it's time you Saw The Light, and became Emancipated, like
the rest here. Just WHAT is the matter with you, anyway?????

"Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at
excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable
for that. Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-)

We'll see..... ;)

I used to sound like JWB until I got one when I was pregnant with my
youngest. I became a convert. lol

Our older kids have the pre-paid kind which they are to use only for
emergencies and not to yak to their friends. They are such a convenience for
me and their father and save so much time when we're tryng to coordinate
pick ups and drops off for various things.

Tai

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o0a7rF5ij1hU1@uni-berlin.de... JWB wrote: "_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2o08n5F59m5vU1@uni-berlin.de... My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting point..... she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :) Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents?

oh yes!

I can do a great "Tim the enchanter" - throat hurts a bit afterwards,
though.

"Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0VCSc.18822$cK.13982@newsread2.news.pas.earth link.net... JWB wrote: "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my
employer has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house, when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another
destination, and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with
for a teenager. I guess... but what would you have done ten years ago? I just can't understand howe these things got so ingrained in our lives that we think they are a necessity. I'm glad my parents didn't require I call them at work when i left. We were all dead 10 years ago. And the world didn't revolve around the sun, either, at that time - this was the Dark Ages. (Actually, more
like 20 years ago). Business AND personal life were at a standstill, only
to be "revitalized" by the cell phone. Haven't you been keeping up with
your history?

see, if you still had me in your killfile, you'd be missing all this great
stuff!!

"Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uqednXRZjKhLeofcRVn-hA@comcast.com...

My husband just bought my dad a cell phone. My mom already has one, but
my dad is nearly 75 and wanted one for safety on the road. So last night DH
is in the kitchen with my parents, 3 cell phones out (DH's, my mom's and my dad's). They're all looking at the features and whatnot spread out on the table.

Ok, nerdy confession coming up.....

I allowed my cell-phone provider to talk me into a new phone recently. I'd
been out-of-plan with the old one for some time because the handset was
fine. However, it was explained to me that I would actually get better value
for my $22/month if I bought a new handset (included in the monthly charge,
contracted over 2 years) because I'd also get $22 worth of call-credits as
opposed to the $10 I was getting at that time.

So... now I have a nokia 66something which, if I point it at my laptop,
synchronises my contact list and calendar with Outlook. Since I already
maintain the family's schedule on my laptop so I can synch it with my
husband's pocket PC we can update everybody's info just by pointing and
clicking. And I don't need to carry a pocket diary anymore 'cos it's all on
my phone. And it has an FM radio in it!

I uploaded my favorite photo of my kids as wall-paper on the handset, too.
:)

Tai
(easily seduced by hardware)

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> wrote in message
news:CeCSc.94958$4h7.11662752@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house, when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination, and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with
for a teenager. I guess... but what would you have done ten years ago? I just can't understand howe these things got so ingrained in our lives that we think they are a necessity. I'm glad my parents didn't require I call them at
work when i left.

That's what bothers me. I had a long talk IRL with Tim about this for the
past hour. At least we're in agreement on how we approach the issue. It's
the way cell phones went from being a luxury to a nice aid to a necessity
that bothers me, and I typically don't mind being a tool of commercialism.
:-)
I agree they are handy for the car. I'd like to see them left in glove
boxes :)

Tim said you can buy phones now that have prepaid minutes already on them,
straight from the store. I can see buying that sort of device to keep in
whatever car my teen drives. The phone would only be in the case of vehicle
breakdown or running out of gas (and don't run out of gas!).

Jennifer

JWB wrote: "Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:0VCSc.18822$cK.13982@newsread2.news.pas.earth link.net... JWB wrote: "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com...> My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my
employer> has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day,
the> system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the> house, when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another> destination, and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I
can> come up with for a teenager. I guess... but what would you have done ten years ago? I just can't understand howe these things got so ingrained in our lives that we think they are a necessity. I'm glad my parents didn't require I call them at
work when i left. We were all dead 10 years ago. And the world didn't revolve around the sun, either, at that time - this was the Dark Ages. (Actually, more
like 20 years ago). Business AND personal life were at a standstill, only
to be "revitalized" by the cell phone. Haven't you been keeping up with
your history? see, if you still had me in your killfile, you'd be missing all this great stuff!!

Yeah. Well, ya gotta remember, the only thing constant in this world is
CHANGE (with a few exceptions). But I ain't ready to join the Amish -
yet.

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o09u7F52gglU1@uni-berlin.de...
Only those kids that had cell phones could call home. My daughter has unlimited long distance, so she lent hers to a friend once, but since there was no place to charge the phones, that was limited as well. Her battery just barely made it home with some power.

I guess it's important that your daughter be able to call you frequently, so
cell phones work for you. I liken my kids going off in that instance to
them going off to camp. DD10 was just at camp for a week, and there was
absolutely no contact permitted for that week. She would have *liked* to
have been able to contact me, but that would have been a totally different
experience.

The other kids who didn't have cell phones, though, they will be my kids,
lol. My (second?) cousin, who is about to turn 15, took a two-week biking
trip throughout Germany with her class. Nobody had a phone, and nobody
checked in at home. That's what we did when we traveled away from home,
too. How did you check in with your parents when you were a teenager?
Mostly, we wrote notes about where we were going when we got old enough to
have the freedom to go off on our own.

I think it's just one more worry for parents to know that, at the other end
of the line, is an available teen at all times. That might seem reassuring
to some, but to me, it's more peaceful just to say, "Well, he's off doing
such-and-such, guess I'd better go do something else since there's no way
we'll be in touch." I don't know if that makes sense or not. I want to
know where my kids are, but I don't want to have the opportunity to check in
as much as I might be tempted to check in. I want them to have that freedom
I did when I was a teen, when I could go from home (after checking with Mom
and Dad) and be flying solo until I returned home (at the agreed-upon time).
Having a cell phone saved them from being put in the position of asking to make a long distance call. There are just too many good reasons to have one, IMO.

I don't know what's so important that a kid has to call home, though. If
there's a real emergency (e.g., injury, vehicle malfunction), I'm sure the
adults in charge have some way to contact the parents.

If a kid asks to make a long distance call just to talk to Mom or Dad, that
is something where I would argue that the kid doesn't need to call Mom and
Dad.
I see little to no difference in whether a kid has a cell or landline attached to their ears. If they are going to abuse a cell, they can easily do so with their landlines as well. If you are able to put restrictions on a landline, then it is just as easy to do with a cell.. but having a cell has so many benefits.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, though I do like what Tim
mentioned--the phones you can buy with prepaid minutes, so you can leave
them in the car just for emergencies.
If you don't want the kid hiding upstairs with a cell.. then don't let them.. easy as that. Neither of my kids goes anywhere near their allotted time, so I know they don't abuse theirs. If they did, I would be putting restrictions.

I like there being one main landline. I like that the kids have to figure
out who gets to be on the phone when, and it's near where I can hear them.
I like that when the phone rings, I answer it, so I know who's calling.

FWIW, I'm not that interested in limiting time, as long as everything else
is done and the child isn't supposed to be going to bed or anything. I
remember having hour-long conversations with my girlfriends, having pulled
the cord into the mudroom, lol. :-) (OH, I should add, I've never had a
cordless.)

Jennifer

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2o0d6gF5f46uU1@uni-berlin.de... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . > I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of
me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for that. Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-) We'll see..... ;)

Well, we just finished raising a teen (or as finished as you can get, lol),
and Tim and I are still pretty adamant. :-) If anything, we're *more*
convinced that the best way to keep a child close to the heart and home is
to limit the sorts of devices that make them feel free of parental
oversight. IMO, the landline is my way of keeping tabs on my kids. Plus,
there's something that makes me feel that it's so privileged and spoiling to
get a phone for a child. I will admit that is totally my own issue!!

Oh, my children have already talked to me about cell phones. They've
reminded me that their older sister got one at 16. I've told them they
won't be getting them, and that's the way it is, they can cry to their
therapists later. :-) At least they'll be spending their own money on the
therapists.

The reason I wrote "no cell phones" was in response to "you don't have
teenagers to keep track of." I should have been clearer, but I felt that
the assumption being made was that *if* you have teenagers, and *if* you
want to keep track of them, *then* cell phones are "invaluable." I want to
say that there are lots and lots of parents who have other means for keeping
track of those kids, absent cell phones.

My sister's boys are 18 and nearly 16, and the older one drives and works
and is off to college. She's never even considered getting him a cell
phone. First, they don't want to spend the money. Second, it's not even a
thought in their mind that it would be a Good Thing. I suppose it's
reflexive parenting (we didn't need cell phones, therefore...), but it's
something that works for us.

When my kids turn 18, if they want to buy their own cell phones, I'm sure
they can and will. I'll be happy to call them on their own phones at that
time. :-)
I used to sound like JWB until I got one when I was pregnant with my youngest. I became a convert. lol

Don't get me wrong--DH and I love them, but they're a privilege I want for
myself and not my kids. I like to keep certain things off limits to my
children so they have something big to look forward to when they're adults.
Cell phones are one of those treats in our household. :-)
Our older kids have the pre-paid kind which they are to use only for emergencies and not to yak to their friends. They are such a convenience
for me and their father and save so much time when we're tryng to coordinate pick ups and drops off for various things.

I just learned about those recently. Those would be great to keep in the
car and seems more of an updated safety device, as opposed to cell phones
that kids take around with them.

Jennifer

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2o0e01F4krstU1@uni-berlin.de... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uqednXRZjKhLeofcRVn-hA@comcast.com... My husband just bought my dad a cell phone. My mom already has one, but my dad is nearly 75 and wanted one for safety on the road. So last night
DH is in the kitchen with my parents, 3 cell phones out (DH's, my mom's and my dad's). They're all looking at the features and whatnot spread out on
the table. Ok, nerdy confession coming up..... I allowed my cell-phone provider to talk me into a new phone recently. I'd been out-of-plan with the old one for some time because the handset was fine. However, it was explained to me that I would actually get better
value for my $22/month if I bought a new handset (included in the monthly
charge, contracted over 2 years) because I'd also get $22 worth of call-credits as opposed to the $10 I was getting at that time. So... now I have a nokia 66something which, if I point it at my laptop, synchronises my contact list and calendar with Outlook. Since I already maintain the family's schedule on my laptop so I can synch it with my husband's pocket PC we can update everybody's info just by pointing and clicking. And I don't need to carry a pocket diary anymore 'cos it's all
on my phone. And it has an FM radio in it! I uploaded my favorite photo of my kids as wall-paper on the handset, too. :) Tai (easily seduced by hardware)

LOL! Tim is constantly upgrading our technology, whether it be computers or
cell phones. I swear he's drawn to that Verizon store like a moth to a
flame... He had *such* fun buying the new equipment for my parents!! :-D
I'm not going to tell him about your nokia, because he'll just start
slavering.

You should have seen him with his new PC World mag tonight. He wants to
upgrade my current system to match the one he just bought as SD's college &
birthday present. He's so in love with its features, and he's trying to
convince me how out of date I am.

Jennifer

"Bill in Co." <surly8curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3YeRc.12368$cK.9573@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>...
How can anyone wear those things? I would think it would be excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Actually, you'd be surprised. Thongs really are comfortable. I
wouldn't have thought so myself, but ... well... I can't explain why,
they just are!

Not only that, but there are some outfits (any fabric that's meant to
cling, for example) that simply look better with a thong.

I personally draw the line at a thong that shows. Underwear is not
meant to show. Ugh, tacky.


jen

caren50@msn.com (Caren) wrote in message news:<3754f0b3.0408101310.4d46a57e@posting.google.com>...
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about bras? My daughter is wearing one of those little training bras, sort of like a sports bra. She really doesn't "need" to wear one but given that she is just beginning to develop, she is very self conscious.

You didn't ask me, but I'll chime in. DD11 wanted a bra long before I
thought she "needed" one. Yes, she was self-conscious. I responded to
that part - even if it was all in her mind, if it made her less self
conscious and thus more confident, then I was for it, too.

Now DD10 is starting to want a bra, and will probably get her first
one before the summer's out. With DD10 it doesn't seem to be a
self-concious thing nor a peer pressure thing. She's barely showing
any signs of puberty, except that she says her nipples are hurting.
Which makes me think that maybe that is why a girl this age - who
doesn't *appear* yet to need a bra, really might feel more comfortable
with a bra anyway. Changes are happening, even if it's not all that
obvious to us.


We look at bras anytime that we're in a store and believe it or not, there are PADDED training bras. Also lacy and frilly beginner bras.

I recommend you get her a training bra - a real one (not padded or
frilly) - instead of a sports bra. Have you ever worn a sports bra?
IMO, they are not comfortable for all-day use. Sports bras are meant
to compress the breasts tight to the chest during physical activity. I
can't wear mine longer than an hour without it driving me crazy!

Also (as my DD11 attests) sports bras tend to show more under clothes.
The straps are closer to the neck and peek out.
In my opinion, this is in the same category as thongs. She has plenty of years to buy and wear all this stuff when she is older. I mean honestly, is there anything that some kids are asked to wait for these days (OY! I sound like Bill....HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I'm finding myself saying more frequently to my daughter, "that's something you can look forward to when you get older."

Well, if you think she wants one just because all her friends have
one, then maybe encourage her to wait. But, there might be more to it.
Ask if her breasts are hurting.

jen

"Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<QwtSc.17667$9Y6.17179@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>... I must be out of the loop, staying too secluded here (and out of reach of the public for the most part - fortunately). I thought most of the time the fabrics were opaque enough to cover that - either that, or I haven't been paying attention.

It has nothing to do with opacity, but the clinginess of the fabric.
For example, a rayon or stretchy dress that's meant to be somewhat
form-fitting. Wear regular underwear, and not only do you have a panty
line, but the panty creates unflattering bulges on your butt and hips
(think sausage casings).

To me, that's the number one reason to opt for a thong! A thong
eliminates these unnaturally created hip and butt bulges and gives a
smooth, natural line. Next-best thing to no underwear at all.

jen

"trust me - certain fashions really DO look better if you wear a
thong"

and for the men to practice:

"no, honey, you do not have cellulite, your body is absolutely perfect
- it's just your darn undies that are the problem"

shinypenny wrote: "Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<QwtSc.17667$9Y6.17179@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>... I must be out of the loop, staying too secluded here (and out of reach of the public for the most part - fortunately). I thought most of the
time the fabrics were opaque enough to cover that - either that, or I haven't been paying attention. It has nothing to do with opacity, but the clinginess of the fabric. For example, a rayon or stretchy dress that's meant to be somewhat form-fitting. Wear regular underwear, and not only do you have a panty line, but the panty creates unflattering bulges on your butt and hips (think sausage casings).>

Then why not wear something not so clingy or form-fitting? Then you
wouldn't have to worry about it. I guess I'm to assume the clingy ones
are more stylish, and the non clingy ones look either baggy, or old
fashioned. Is that it?
To me, that's the number one reason to opt for a thong! A thong eliminates these unnaturally created hip and butt bulges and gives a smooth, natural line. Next-best thing to no underwear at all. jen "trust me - certain fashions really DO look better if you wear a thong" and for the men to practice: "no, honey, you do not have cellulite, your body is absolutely perfect - it's just your darn undies that are the problem"

Yeah, but wait a minute - is that true or is that false? If it's false,
then the guy would be lying.

Isn't there a way to get rid of cellulite? I think women have more of a
problem with cellulite then men, for some reason. Admitedly, it doesn't
look good, though. Maybe diet and exercise (taken seriously) can eliminate
it?

It has nothing to do with opacity, but the clinginess of the fabric. For example, a rayon or stretchy dress that's meant to be somewhat form-fitting. Wear regular underwear, and not only do you have a panty line, but the panty creates unflattering bulges on your butt and hips (think sausage casings).

sausages are nice.
and in the dark they all taste nice.

bogey

Jennifer wrote:
"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2o0e01F4krstU1@uni-berlin.de..."Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:uqednXRZjKhLeofcRVn-hA@comcast.com...My husband just bought my dad a cell phone. My mom already has one, butmydad is nearly 75 and wanted one for safety on the road. So last night DHisin the kitchen with my parents, 3 cell phones out (DH's, my mom's and mydad's). They're all looking at the features and whatnot spread out on thetable.Ok, nerdy confession coming up.....I allowed my cell-phone provider to talk me into a new phone recently. I'dbeen out-of-plan with the old one for some time because the handset wasfine. However, it was explained to me that I would actually get better valuefor my $22/month if I bought a new handset (included in the monthly charge,contracted over 2 years) because I'd also get $22 worth of call-credits asopposed to the $10 I was getting at that time.So... now I have a nokia 66something which, if I point it at my laptop,synchronises my contact list and calendar with Outlook. Since I alreadymaintain the family's schedule on my laptop so I can synch it with myhusband's pocket PC we can update everybody's info just by pointing andclicking. And I don't need to carry a pocket diary anymore 'cos it's all onmy phone. And it has an FM radio in it!I uploaded my favorite photo of my kids as wall-paper on the handset, too.:)Tai(easily seduced by hardware) LOL! Tim is constantly upgrading our technology, whether it be computers or cell phones. I swear he's drawn to that Verizon store like a moth to a flame... He had *such* fun buying the new equipment for my parents!! :-D I'm not going to tell him about your nokia, because he'll just start slavering. You should have seen him with his new PC World mag tonight. He wants to upgrade my current system to match the one he just bought as SD's college & birthday present. He's so in love with its features, and he's trying to convince me how out of date I am. Jennifer

is he interested in people too ?

bogey

Jennifer wrote:
"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2o0d6gF5f46uU1@uni-berlin.de..."Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com..."Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com...>"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 atexcite>dot com> wrote in message>news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .>>>I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.>You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluablefor>that.Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-)We'll see..... ;) Well, we just finished raising a teen (or as finished as you can get, lol), and Tim and I are still pretty adamant. :-) If anything, we're *more* convinced that the best way to keep a child close to the heart and home is to limit the sorts of devices that make them feel free of parental oversight. IMO, the landline is my way of keeping tabs on my kids. Plus, there's something that makes me feel that it's so privileged and spoiling to get a phone for a child. I will admit that is totally my own issue!! Oh, my children have already talked to me about cell phones. They've reminded me that their older sister got one at 16. I've told them they won't be getting them, and that's the way it is, they can cry to their therapists later. :-) At least they'll be spending their own money on the therapists. The reason I wrote "no cell phones" was in response to "you don't have teenagers to keep track of." I should have been clearer, but I felt that the assumption being made was that *if* you have teenagers, and *if* you want to keep track of them, *then* cell phones are "invaluable." I want to say that there are lots and lots of parents who have other means for keeping track of those kids, absent cell phones. My sister's boys are 18 and nearly 16, and the older one drives and works and is off to college. She's never even considered getting him a cell phone. First, they don't want to spend the money. Second, it's not even a thought in their mind that it would be a Good Thing. I suppose it's reflexive parenting (we didn't need cell phones, therefore...), but it's something that works for us. When my kids turn 18, if they want to buy their own cell phones, I'm sure they can and will. I'll be happy to call them on their own phones at that time. :-)I used to sound like JWB until I got one when I was pregnant with myyoungest. I became a convert. lol Don't get me wrong--DH and I love them, but they're a privilege I want for myself and not my kids. I like to keep certain things off limits to my children so they have something big to look forward to when they're adults. Cell phones are one of those treats in our household. :-)Our older kids have the pre-paid kind which they are to use only foremergencies and not to yak to their friends. They are such a convenience forme and their father and save so much time when we're tryng to coordinatepick ups and drops off for various things. I just learned about those recently. Those would be great to keep in the car and seems more of an updated safety device, as opposed to cell phones that kids take around with them. Jennifer

I don't know how any divorced parents with kids ever managed
without cellphones.

Or even *any* parents with teenagers.

bogey

Jennifer wrote:
"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2o09u7F52gglU1@uni-berlin.de...Only those kids that had cell phones could call home. My daughter hasunlimited long distance, so she lent hers to a friend once, but sincethere was no place to charge the phones, that was limited as well. Herbattery just barely made it home with some power. I guess it's important that your daughter be able to call you frequently, so cell phones work for you. I liken my kids going off in that instance to them going off to camp. DD10 was just at camp for a week, and there was absolutely no contact permitted for that week. She would have *liked* to have been able to contact me, but that would have been a totally different experience. The other kids who didn't have cell phones, though, they will be my kids, lol. My (second?) cousin, who is about to turn 15, took a two-week biking trip throughout Germany with her class. Nobody had a phone, and nobody checked in at home. That's what we did when we traveled away from home, too. How did you check in with your parents when you were a teenager? Mostly, we wrote notes about where we were going when we got old enough to have the freedom to go off on our own. I think it's just one more worry for parents to know that, at the other end of the line, is an available teen at all times. That might seem reassuring to some, but to me, it's more peaceful just to say, "Well, he's off doing such-and-such, guess I'd better go do something else since there's no way we'll be in touch." I don't know if that makes sense or not. I want to know where my kids are, but I don't want to have the opportunity to check in as much as I might be tempted to check in. I want them to have that freedom I did when I was a teen, when I could go from home (after checking with Mom and Dad) and be flying solo until I returned home (at the agreed-upon time).Having a cell phone saved them from being put in the position of askingto make a long distance call. There are just too many good reasons tohave one, IMO. I don't know what's so important that a kid has to call home, though. If there's a real emergency (e.g., injury, vehicle malfunction), I'm sure the adults in charge have some way to contact the parents. If a kid asks to make a long distance call just to talk to Mom or Dad, that is something where I would argue that the kid doesn't need to call Mom and Dad.I see little to no difference in whether a kid has a cell or landlineattached to their ears. If they are going to abuse a cell, they caneasily do so with their landlines as well. If you are able to putrestrictions on a landline, then it is just as easy to do with a cell..but having a cell has so many benefits. We'll just have to agree to disagree, though I do like what Tim mentioned--the phones you can buy with prepaid minutes, so you can leave them in the car just for emergencies.If you don't want the kid hiding upstairs with a cell.. then don't letthem.. easy as that. Neither of my kids goes anywhere near theirallotted time, so I know they don't abuse theirs. If they did, I wouldbe putting restrictions. I like there being one main landline. I like that the kids have to figure out who gets to be on the phone when, and it's near where I can hear them. I like that when the phone rings, I answer it, so I know who's calling. FWIW, I'm not that interested in limiting time, as long as everything else is done and the child isn't supposed to be going to bed or anything. I remember having hour-long conversations with my girlfriends, having pulled the cord into the mudroom, lol. :-) (OH, I should add, I've never had a cordless.) Jennifer

One of the marvellous things for us about these phone - when they
are on their mother's time I can ring them wherever I am and
wherever they are without invading anyone's privacy, and the same the
other way around when they are on my time.

bogey

Tim said you can buy phones now that have prepaid minutes already on them, straight from the store. I can see buying that sort of device to keep in whatever car my teen drives. The phone would only be in the case of vehicle breakdown or running out of gas (and don't run out of gas!). Jennifer

not seen them here in the UK.

What I *would* like that's not available here is to
buy a contract that has a fixed number of minutes per
month and cuts off after that or reverts to pay-as-you-go
after that.

bogey

Bill in Co. wrote:
Jennifer wrote:"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:10hlq2lr4q7d509@corp.supernews.com..."Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com...>"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message>news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com...>>>"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at>>dot com> wrote in message>>news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .>>>>>I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.>>>>You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for>>that.>>Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-)>>JenniferYou don't want them to be able to call you if they're going to be late? Orhave car trouble?I don't believe cell phones are necessary. We lived without them formillennia. How did your parents keep a tab on you? People here still havelandlines. When SD was growing up, until she was 16 and her BM bought her acell phone against our wishes, we'd have her check in when she reached herdestination--not a Wal-Mart, but a friend's house. When I was younger and Ineeded to call my parents, I could do it from work or a friend's house. I think you're pulling our leg, Jennifer! I bet you also walked 5 miles uphill thru the snow to get to school everyday, didn't ya?? My grandpappy told me these things too, but I always knew he was ribbin us!! By golly, I think it's time you Saw The Light, and became Emancipated, like the rest here. Just WHAT is the matter with you, anyway?????

Toilets inside are not necessary.
A brisk walk to the outside one keeps you fit.

bogey

JWB wrote:
"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com...My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer hasthis annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the systemwe've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house, whenshe arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination, andwhen she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with for ateenager. I guess... but what would you have done ten years ago? I just can't understand howe these things got so ingrained in our lives that we think they are a necessity. I'm glad my parents didn't require I call them at work when i left. What does your boss think of you taking cell calls?This hasn't come up as much with my daughter yet, but with my son it workedout great to be able to call him when he was out at night, or for him to beable to call me if he was going to be late for some reason. Or for him tobe able to call me when he didn't brake in time and hit the car in front ofhim... I agree they are handy for the car. I'd like to see them left in glove boxes :)

I expect thieves would too.

I'd like not not see them left in glove boxes.

bogey

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> wrote in message
news:CeCSc.94958$4h7.11662752@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... What does your boss think of you taking cell calls?

He gets more cell calls from his family than I do from mine!

I'm fortunate to have a work environment where that is acceptable, although
my rules state that if I don't answer the cell phone thou shalt leave me a
voicemail.

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer
has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the
system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house,
when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination,
and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with for
a teenager.

I wonder how we and our teenage children survived without cell phones...
(we have yet to give in, but the time is rapidly approaching.)

Ted

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2o172dF5ng6aU1@uni-berlin.de... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house, when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination, and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with
for a teenager. I wonder how we and our teenage children survived without cell phones... (we have yet to give in, but the time is rapidly approaching.) Ted

Is it possible to survive? Of course. That isn't the question - the
question is, do they make life enough better to justify the expense. For
some they will, for some they won't. I don't understand why people always
point out that people used to survive without X or Y as a reason for not
doing something (not specifically Ted, mind you, but there always seems to
be somebody who does this). Why think in terms of survival? We used to
survive without those newfangled indoor toilets, too - anybody want to go
back to the outhouse?

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hmqrge6id7d91@corp.supernews.com... I wonder how we and our teenage children survived without cell phones... (we have yet to give in, but the time is rapidly approaching.) Ted Is it possible to survive? Of course. That isn't the question - the question is, do they make life enough better to justify the expense. For some they will, for some they won't. I don't understand why people always point out that people used to survive without X or Y as a reason for not doing something (not specifically Ted, mind you, but there always seems
to be somebody who does this). Why think in terms of survival? We used to survive without those newfangled indoor toilets, too - anybody want to go back to the outhouse?

I shoulda put a smiley on it.... or signed it /Bill/.

Ted

Jennifer wrote: "_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<snip> I guess it's important that your daughter be able to call you frequently, so cell phones work for you.

There is nothing better than having your kid ring you up, as excited as
all get out because their corps just did really well against their
competition. The sound of her voice when she called me was wonderful
and I'd have hated to miss out on that.

And since there aren't any available phones for these kids to use unless
they had their own, the day she was in pain and hurting a lot, I was so
thankful her battery was still working. I know she felt better just
talking to me.
I liken my kids going off in that instance to them going off to camp. DD10 was just at camp for a week, and there was absolutely no contact permitted for that week.

It's the same thing when the go away to band camp as well. They can not
call unless it's a dire emergency. This was different. They were
traveling all those states, having competitions every other night.. she
wanted to keep me updated to the scores and how she was personally
doing. The night she dropped a quad toss on her rifle, she called me
for sympathy and for a little boost :0) I don't see anything wrong with
that.
She would have *liked* to have been able to contact me, but that would have been a totally different experience.

Well, sure I understand that. But since they go off for weeks at a time
at band camp without calling, they get that experience already. This
was different.

<snip> How did you check in with your parents when you were a teenager?

My parents didn't give a **** where we were, or with whom. However, we
had to be home by curfew. That was the only criteria.

<snip>
I don't know what's so important that a kid has to call home, though. If there's a real emergency (e.g., injury, vehicle malfunction), I'm sure the adults in charge have some way to contact the parents.

Well.. we've already agreed that our form of child rearing is vastly
different.

For whatever reason they need to call.. say, they have been invited to
stay for dinner, or sleep over... or from Steve's house they want to go
to Adam's house- they have to call. Particularly since Steve's house is
in one town, but Adam's house might be three towns over. I don't allow
them the freedom to be traveling all over creation mindlessly. If they
say they are at Steve's.. they better be at Steve's, or they better
call.
If a kid asks to make a long distance call just to talk to Mom or Dad, that is something where I would argue that the kid doesn't need to call Mom and Dad.

Then my kids would never have been allowed at your house if they didn't
have cells :-P
<snip>
I like there being one main landline. I like that the kids have to figure out who gets to be on the phone when, and it's near where I can hear them. I like that when the phone rings, I answer it, so I know who's calling.

Caller ID. Though I do understand this in regards to cell phones. Most
log the number that comes in and goes out, though as you know. I *do*
monitor this with random checks, because it can be a potential problem.
They have complained once or twice, but then I remind them of who pays
the bill, lol..

I would hate to have to listen to my kids complaining because one kid or
another is on the phone. I also would never have allowed my son to call
his girlfriend without the cell either, as she also lives four towns
over. He met her a at camp he went to years ago- and no.. he didn't
call home once! LOL..
FWIW, I'm not that interested in limiting time, as long as everything else is done and the child isn't supposed to be going to bed or anything. I remember having hour-long conversations with my girlfriends, having pulled the cord into the mudroom, lol. :-) (OH, I should add, I've never had a cordless.)

That would absolutely drive me insane. Seriously. I like to sit out
back on the lawn swing and chat.

I would think you'd love a cordless.. add a baby monitor, and you'd be
able to listen to all the conversations going on without having to pick
up a handset since you said you like to eavesdrop.

And as Bogart has stated, I am thankful that my kids and I can talk when
they are at their father's with some sort of privacy and when they talk
to their dad I *require* they do so away from wherever I am.

If we're downstairs.. they go to their rooms, and if I am upstairs they
can go downstairs, or to the basement, to the yard, whatever. I do
*not* want to hear their conversations. They usually just piss me off
(which is why I made the rule they find some place away from the rest of
the family).

I rarely will call them when they are at their dads, but will text msg.
then to call me, if I _need_ to talk to them. Mostly I just leave them
be- when they are there.. they are there, period.

I don't know if you recall that I got a cell phone for them, kicking and
screaming because of demands that my ex put upon me. I was furious and
even now, wish I'd have taken him to court over this whole thing,
because once he got his way over that one, he thought he could force
other stuff that he had no business getting involved with. I *am* glad
they have the phones, I wish it came about under different
circumstances.

Cal~

Jennifer

Is it possible to survive? Of course. That isn't the question - the question is, do they make life enough better to justify the expense. For some they will, for some they won't. I don't understand why people always point out that people used to survive without X or Y as a reason for not doing something (not specifically Ted, mind you, but there always seems to be somebody who does this). Why think in terms of survival? We used to survive without those newfangled indoor toilets, too - anybody want to go back to the outhouse?

A few years ago everyone said the Internet would enable business men
to travel less - they could work from home and email stuff to
people. In fact the opposite has come to pass - it allows them
to travel more and further and stay in touch with home. This is
because that's what they like doing I think.

maybe cellphones enable us to be more mobile too.

But maybe contact is like orgasms - often and small or less often
and bigger.

bogey

>JWB wrote: "_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2o08n5F59m5vU1@uni-berlin.de... My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting point..... she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :)Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents?Cal~

Cal, my 14.5 year old son can quote along with her. How old is she again?
;-))

Sheila

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<xxxSc.52096$oW6.11852886@twister.nyc.rr.com>... "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Caren wrote: Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook, the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are large enough to carry what I need. This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway.... No checkbook (use a debit card) - everything fits in wallet. Sunglasses either on forehead or on a string around neck keys in other pocket.

I know to you it's all simple JWB. Some of us have different needs
than you.

1. Cell phone: it's my business line and a way for my husband and
daughter to always be in touch with me if need be.

2. Palm Pilot: when you have kids and a business and make
appointments when you're out, you know that you have not just double
booked yourself.

3. I use a checkbook not a debit card

4. I wear prescription glasses and must have both pairs with me or I
can't see

5. I usually wear sweats or shorts that don't have pockets to hold
the keys.

See? I love my purse though.

WhansaMi wrote: JWB wrote:> My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can> quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting> point..... she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :) Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents? Cal~ Cal, my 14.5 year old son can quote along with her. How old is she again? ;-)) Sheila

hehehe.. she's 16.5 as of last week :) Maybe he'll like older women ?

Cal~

"Bill in Co." <surly8acurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<XqySc.18580$cK.11967@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink. net>... JWB wrote: "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Caren wrote:> Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook,> the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are> large enough to carry what I need. This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway.... Nobody needs it, but few are in touch with themselves enough to know that. Don't let the secret out! Besides, what would they do with themselves, if they didn't have that stuff to play with?

Pssssst. Some of us are in touch with ourselves and still have that
stuff. As if I sit and play with my checkbook and palm pilot all day.
what fun!!

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<JlBSc.94954$4h7.11623266@twister.nyc.rr.com>... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me. You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for that. Nobody needs to be making a call from the candy aisle at walmart

You're right! Nobody should shop at Walmart!

Caren wrote: Nobody needs it, but few are in touch with themselves enough to know that. Don't let the secret out! Besides, what would they do with themselves, if they didn't have that stuff to play with? Pssssst. Some of us are in touch with ourselves and still have that stuff. As if I sit and play with my checkbook and palm pilot all day. what fun!!

LOL. You don't? Wow.. that's too bad. That's what *I* do with my
palm.. oh! and my cell phone has a really fun game on it as well. And
it has alarms I can set to sound off during the quiet parts of the movie
or while at the resturant.

[I actually use the alarm on my palm pilot as a reminder to take my
meds. They have to be taken at a certain time of day, but I tend to get
involved in whatever I'm doing (over-focused ADD), and forget. Of
course.. I'll get slammed for labelling myself.. but *whatEver*.
lol... ]

You're missing out on all the fun, Caren :0)

Cal~

"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2o0e01F4krstU1@uni-berlin.de>... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uqednXRZjKhLeofcRVn-hA@comcast.com... My husband just bought my dad a cell phone. My mom already has one, but my dad is nearly 75 and wanted one for safety on the road. So last night DH is in the kitchen with my parents, 3 cell phones out (DH's, my mom's and my dad's). They're all looking at the features and whatnot spread out on the table. Ok, nerdy confession coming up..... I allowed my cell-phone provider to talk me into a new phone recently. I'd been out-of-plan with the old one for some time because the handset was fine. However, it was explained to me that I would actually get better value for my $22/month if I bought a new handset (included in the monthly charge, contracted over 2 years) because I'd also get $22 worth of call-credits as opposed to the $10 I was getting at that time. So... now I have a nokia 66something which, if I point it at my laptop, synchronises my contact list and calendar with Outlook. Since I already maintain the family's schedule on my laptop so I can synch it with my husband's pocket PC we can update everybody's info just by pointing and clicking. And I don't need to carry a pocket diary anymore 'cos it's all on my phone. And it has an FM radio in it! I uploaded my favorite photo of my kids as wall-paper on the handset, too. :) Tai (easily seduced by hardware)


That sounds very cool Tai. I bought my phone a year ago and I'm stuck
with it until Aug 5th of next year. I'm looking forward to the
discounted upgrade I'll be getting :-) By next summer, who knows what
features they'll have!!!

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hmnamr8jjgda2@corp.supernews.com... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:CeCSc.94958$4h7.11662752@twister.nyc.rr.com.. . "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... What does your boss think of you taking cell calls? He gets more cell calls from his family than I do from mine! I'm fortunate to have a work environment where that is acceptable,
although my rules state that if I don't answer the cell phone thou shalt leave me a voicemail.

You're lucky in that respect. A lot of places view it like they do a
personal call (meaning it's evil).

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411b7e56$0$27945$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Is it possible to survive? Of course. That isn't the question - the question is, do they make life enough better to justify the expense.
For some they will, for some they won't. I don't understand why people
always point out that people used to survive without X or Y as a reason for not doing something (not specifically Ted, mind you, but there always seems
to be somebody who does this). Why think in terms of survival? We used to survive without those newfangled indoor toilets, too - anybody want to
go back to the outhouse? A few years ago everyone said the Internet would enable business men to travel less - they could work from home and email stuff to people. In fact the opposite has come to pass - it allows them to travel more and further and stay in touch with home. This is because that's what they like doing I think. maybe cellphones enable us to be more mobile too. But maybe contact is like orgasms - often and small or less often and bigger.

Not true. There's a ton of people working from home who couldn't do so
without the internet. I'm one of them.

I do agree that the ones who travel more probably like it.

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o1eomF5n8pqU1@uni-berlin.de... WhansaMi wrote: JWB wrote:>> My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can>> quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting>> point.....>> she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :) Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents? Cal~ Cal, my 14.5 year old son can quote along with her. How old is she again? ;-)) Sheila hehehe.. she's 16.5 as of last week :) Maybe he'll like older women ?

I always did

JWB (whose wife is five years older than him)

"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3754f0b3.0408120654.5441ff91@posting.google.c om... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
dot com> wrote in message
news:<xxxSc.52096$oW6.11852886@twister.nyc.rr.com>... "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... Caren wrote: > Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook, > the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are > large enough to carry what I need. This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway.... No checkbook (use a debit card) - everything fits in wallet. Sunglasses either on forehead or on a string around neck keys in other pocket. I know to you it's all simple JWB. Some of us have different needs than you. 1. Cell phone: it's my business line and a way for my husband and daughter to always be in touch with me if need be. 2. Palm Pilot: when you have kids and a business and make appointments when you're out, you know that you have not just double booked yourself. 3. I use a checkbook not a debit card 4. I wear prescription glasses and must have both pairs with me or I can't see 5. I usually wear sweats or shorts that don't have pockets to hold the keys. See? I love my purse though.

Yabbut, you're a girl. Girls need "stuff"

Cal wrote:
>>> My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she can>>> quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting>>> point.....>>>> she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :)>> Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents?>> Cal~ Cal, my 14.5 year old son can quote along with her. How old is she again? ;-)) Sheila hehehe.. she's 16.5 as of last week :) Maybe he'll like older women ?I always didJWB (whose wife is five years older than him)

Actually, I'm sure he would. The real question is whether or not she'd deign
to be seen with a younger, short guy. ;-))

Sheila

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040812123718.09145.00001479@mb-m01.aol.com... Cal wrote: >>>> My daughter's ringer is the theme from Monty Python because she
can >>>> quote the entire Holy Grail movie from any given starting >>>> point..... >>> >>> she will make some smart computer nerd very happy someday :) >> >> Does she get bonus points because she does it with all the accents? >> >> Cal~ > > Cal, my 14.5 year old son can quote along with her. How old is she > again? ;-)) > > Sheila hehehe.. she's 16.5 as of last week :) Maybe he'll like older women ?I always didJWB (whose wife is five years older than him) Actually, I'm sure he would. The real question is whether or not she'd
deign to be seen with a younger, short guy. ;-)) Sheila

at those ages, probably not :)

2 years to teenagers may as well be 20. To me, age differences start to blur
around 25-30. I remember being 23 and really liking this 18 y/o that worked
for me. And she liked me. A lot. But I never pursued it because I felt those
five years were five HUGE years. If the same thing played out at our
current ages (38/33), it wouldn't be such a difference. Course, I'm married
now (and I'm guessing she is too :)

Caren wrote:
"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<JlBSc.94954$4h7.11623266@twister.nyc.rr.com>..."Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com..."JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excitedot com> wrote in messagenews:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.r r.com...>I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable forthat.Nobody needs to be making a call from the candy aisle at walmart You're right! Nobody should shop at Walmart!

often in a large supermarket (incredibly our uk supermarkets
are generally bigger than US ones) using the cellphone is
the quickest way to find the kids to say "come help me
pack this shopping". Also, my house has three floors and
I have to admit it *has* been known for me to phone one
of the kids two floors above to tell them to come down
for their meal.

bogey

WhansaMi wrote: hehehe.. she's 16.5 as of last week :) Maybe he'll like older women ?
I always did JWB (whose wife is five years older than him) Actually, I'm sure he would. The real question is whether or not she'd deign to be seen with a younger, short guy. ;-)) Sheila

Well, I don't know about the younger part, but her current boyfriend is
shorter than her by an inch or two. She's 5'4" and I'd be surprised if
he were more than 5'2" -3". Of course, just cuz she has a boyfriend
now, doesn't mean much, we all know how fickle kids can be. :-P

Cal~

JWB wrote: Actually, I'm sure he would. The real question is whether or not she'd deign to be seen with a younger, short guy. ;-)) Sheila at those ages, probably not :)

hehehe.. See other reply to Sheila. DD's current boyfriend *is* shorter
than her. He's not anywhere near as strong as she is, either. I once
commended him for respecting my daughter's boundaries. (long story)..
anyway- he said "I'd better respect her boundaries, she can kick my
butt". Her biceps are rock solid at rest. She's stronger than any
young woman I know.

He's a cross country runner, so he has that runner's physic..
2 years to teenagers may as well be 20. To me, age differences start to blur around 25-30. I remember being 23 and really liking this 18 y/o that worked for me. And she liked me. A lot. But I never pursued it because I felt those five years were five HUGE years. If the same thing played out at our current ages (38/33), it wouldn't be such a difference. Course, I'm married now (and I'm guessing she is too :)

I think it depends on the kids involved how much 2 years can be
different. My son started dating a young woman that was 2 1/2 years
older than him when he was 16. He was an older 16 in many ways and she
was a younger 18 year old. They seemed appropriately suited
maturity-wise.

She'd have been over her head with older guys at that time. It's only
now that she's had some college, and he's not been to college yet that
the differences have started to show, and they've slowly moved from
boyfriend/girlfriend to simply 'friends'. Very wise of them and very
mature, IMO.

Cal~

bogart wrote: Jennifer wrote: "Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2o0d6gF5f46uU1@uni-berlin.de... "Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com...> "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com...>>> "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite>> dot com> wrote in message>> news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .>>>>> I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out of me.>> You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable for>> that.>> Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-) We'll see..... ;) Well, we just finished raising a teen (or as finished as you can get,
lol), and Tim and I are still pretty adamant. :-) If anything, we're *more* convinced that the best way to keep a child close to the heart and home
is to limit the sorts of devices that make them feel free of parental oversight. IMO, the landline is my way of keeping tabs on my kids.
Plus, there's something that makes me feel that it's so privileged and spoiling
to get a phone for a child. I will admit that is totally my own issue!! Oh, my children have already talked to me about cell phones. They've reminded me that their older sister got one at 16. I've told them they won't be getting them, and that's the way it is, they can cry to their therapists later. :-) At least they'll be spending their own money on
the therapists. The reason I wrote "no cell phones" was in response to "you don't have teenagers to keep track of." I should have been clearer, but I felt that the assumption being made was that *if* you have teenagers, and *if* you want to keep track of them, *then* cell phones are "invaluable." I want
to say that there are lots and lots of parents who have other means for
keeping track of those kids, absent cell phones. My sister's boys are 18 and nearly 16, and the older one drives and works and is off to college. She's never even considered getting him a cell phone. First, they don't want to spend the money. Second, it's not even
a thought in their mind that it would be a Good Thing. I suppose it's reflexive parenting (we didn't need cell phones, therefore...), but it's something that works for us. When my kids turn 18, if they want to buy their own cell phones, I'm sure they can and will. I'll be happy to call them on their own phones at
that time. :-) I used to sound like JWB until I got one when I was pregnant with my youngest. I became a convert. lol Don't get me wrong--DH and I love them, but they're a privilege I want
for myself and not my kids. I like to keep certain things off limits to my children so they have something big to look forward to when they're
adults. Cell phones are one of those treats in our household. :-) Our older kids have the pre-paid kind which they are to use only for emergencies and not to yak to their friends. They are such a convenience for me and their father and save so much time when we're tryng to coordinate pick ups and drops off for various things. I just learned about those recently. Those would be great to keep in the car and seems more of an updated safety device, as opposed to cell phones that kids take around with them. Jennifer I don't know how any divorced parents with kids ever managed without cellphones. Or even *any* parents with teenagers. bogey

We didn't! It was all just a fantasy, bogey! The world ceased to
exist, as we know it!

Joy wrote: "Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2o172dF5ng6aU1@uni-berlin.de... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:10hlpsvh9eoac4b@corp.supernews.com... My youngest has a fairly busy schedule of her own, and since my employer
has this annoying expectation that I should to go to work every day, the
system we've worked out is that she has to call me when she leaves the house,
when she arrives at her destination, when she leaves for another destination,
and when she arrives back home. It is the best system I can come up with
for a teenager. I wonder how we and our teenage children survived without cell phones... (we have yet to give in, but the time is rapidly approaching.) Ted Is it possible to survive? Of course. That isn't the question - the question is, do they make life enough better to justify the expense.

It's a question of responsibility, or, I should say, irresponsibility. It
is NOT better when I have to hear these cellphone self centered idiots in
restaurants, movie theaters, meetings, and then, to really top it off, watch
them drive like morons on the road (while ordering their pizzas in advance,
as they drive home).

>WhansaMi wrote:> hehehe.. she's 16.5 as of last week :) Maybe he'll like older> women ? I always did JWB (whose wife is five years older than him) Actually, I'm sure he would. The real question is whether or not she'd deign to be seen with a younger, short guy. ;-)) SheilaWell, I don't know about the younger part, but her current boyfriend isshorter than her by an inch or two. She's 5'4" and I'd be surprised ifhe were more than 5'2" -3". Of course, just cuz she has a boyfriendnow, doesn't mean much, we all know how fickle kids can be. :-PCal~

True enough. I guess we'll postpone arranging a date until she is "single"
again. ;-)

Sheila

Bill in Co. wrote:
bogart wrote:Jennifer wrote:"Tai" <tainuiti@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:2o0d6gF5f46uU1@uni-berlin.de...>"Jennifer" <JenPam2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message>news:6Oidnev2jr7ae4fcRVn-rw@comcast.com...>>>>"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message>>news:10hlobl6g1j6i91@corp.supernews.com...>>>>>>>"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at>>excite>>>>>dot com> wrote in message>>>news:3qASc.52118$oW6.11954793@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .>>>>>>>>>>I agree 100% with you here. Cell phones just annoy the hell out ofme.>>>You don't have teenagers to keep track of. Cell phones are invaluable>>for>>>>>that.>>>>Noooooooooooooooo! No cell phones for teens! :-)>>We'll see..... ;)Well, we just finished raising a teen (or as finished as you can get, lol),and Tim and I are still pretty adamant. :-) If anything, we're *more*convinced that the best way to keep a child close to the heart and home isto limit the sorts of devices that make them feel free of parentaloversight. IMO, the landline is my way of keeping tabs on my kids. Plus,there's something that makes me feel that it's so privileged and spoiling toget a phone for a child. I will admit that is totally my own issue!!Oh, my children have already talked to me about cell phones. They'vereminded me that their older sister got one at 16. I've told them theywon't be getting them, and that's the way it is, they can cry to theirtherapists later. :-) At least they'll be spending their own money on thetherapists.The reason I wrote "no cell phones" was in response to "you don't haveteenagers to keep track of." I should have been clearer, but I felt thatthe assumption being made was that *if* you have teenagers, and *if* youwant to keep track of them, *then* cell phones are "invaluable." I want tosay that there are lots and lots of parents who have other means for keepingtrack of those kids, absent cell phones.My sister's boys are 18 and nearly 16, and the older one drives and worksand is off to college. She's never even considered getting him a cellphone. First, they don't want to spend the money. Second, it's not even athought in their mind that it would be a Good Thing. I suppose it'sreflexive parenting (we didn't need cell phones, therefore...), but it'ssomething that works for us.When my kids turn 18, if they want to buy their own cell phones, I'm surethey can and will. I'll be happy to call them on their own phones at thattime. :-)>I used to sound like JWB until I got one when I was pregnant with my>youngest. I became a convert. lolDon't get me wrong--DH and I love them, but they're a privilege I want formyself and not my kids. I like to keep certain things off limits to mychildren so they have something big to look forward to when they're adults.Cell phones are one of those treats in our household. :-)>Our older kids have the pre-paid kind which they are to use only for>emergencies and not to yak to their friends. They are such a conveniencefor>me and their father and save so much time when we're tryng to coordinate>pick ups and drops off for various things.I just learned about those recently. Those would be great to keep in thecar and seems more of an updated safety device, as opposed to cell phonesthat kids take around with them.JenniferI don't know how any divorced parents with kids ever managedwithout cellphones.Or even *any* parents with teenagers.bogey We didn't! It was all just a fantasy, bogey! The world ceased to exist, as we know it!

not a clue what you mean. I think you must be on another
planet Bill. Hope its temporary.

bogey

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2o1f16F5roc2U1@uni-berlin.de>... Caren wrote: Nobody needs it, but few are in touch with themselves enough to know that. Don't let the secret out! Besides, what would they do with themselves, if they didn't have that stuff to play with? Pssssst. Some of us are in touch with ourselves and still have that stuff. As if I sit and play with my checkbook and palm pilot all day. what fun!! LOL. You don't? Wow.. that's too bad. That's what *I* do with my palm.. oh! and my cell phone has a really fun game on it as well. And it has alarms I can set to sound off during the quiet parts of the movie or while at the resturant. [I actually use the alarm on my palm pilot as a reminder to take my meds. They have to be taken at a certain time of day, but I tend to get involved in whatever I'm doing (over-focused ADD), and forget. Of course.. I'll get slammed for labelling myself.. but *whatEver*. lol... ] You're missing out on all the fun, Caren :0) Cal~

What's really funny is that after I hit send I did remember playing
solitaire many a time when bored. However it is so rare that I am
somewhere sitting and doing nothing that I forgot all about it. Also
I have been unable to use my palm pilot for the last month (since I
installed XP) on my computer. It keeps giving me an error message.
So Bill, I am surviving without it :-)

Caren wrote:
I uploaded my favorite photo of my kids as wall-paper on the handset, too. ) Tai (easily seduced by hardware) That sounds very cool Tai. I bought my phone a year ago and I'm stuck with it until Aug 5th of next year. I'm looking forward to the discounted upgrade I'll be getting :-) By next summer, who knows what features they'll have!!!

Lol .. .this is right.

I'm always well behind the current technology because 1) I refuse to pay
the cost for the newest features and 2) I don't want most of them - what on
earth would I do with a camera phone, for example? Mind you, I'll probably
end up with one if all the standard models have that feature eventually.

I do receive a certain amount of pressure about what I should get from my
older kids because they get the old handsets to use. (The pre-paid bit is
the attached to the sim card that goes in the phone rather than the phone
itself.)

Tai

Jennifer wrote:


My sister's boys are 18 and nearly 16, and the older one drives and works and is off to college. She's never even considered getting him a cell phone. First, they don't want to spend the money. Second, it's not even a thought in their mind that it would be a Good Thing. I suppose it's reflexive parenting (we didn't need cell phones, therefore...), but it's something that works for us.

Fair enough. :) I would have a huge problem with my kids using their phones
frivolously but they know the phones are for their parents convenience and
only indirectly for theirs.

The main reason our children were given theirs so early is that they travel
to high school via public transport, either by bus (not a special school
bus) or train. As they'd had a two minute walk to school up to grade 6 I
felt a great deal more comfortable knowing they could easily contact me as
Grade 7 11 and 12 year olds if they had any problems with getting to and
from school. So, for us it was a safety issue first, before the convenience
factor.
I just learned about those recently. Those would be great to keep in the car and seems more of an updated safety device, as opposed to cell phones that kids take around with them.

We've built up quite a collection of old phones so a $30 each recharge every
6 months on two of them is all we have to kick in. Apparently I can get
additional sim cards on my account for about $10 each a month so it might
suit me to convert their phones to that kind when they are older.....
especially as I'd then get an itemised list of all the calls they make. ;)

Tai

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<J9MSc.94993$4h7.11863752@twister.nyc.rr.com>... "Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message news:3754f0b3.0408120654.5441ff91@posting.google.c om... "JWB" <bigtommbtyjwb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<xxxSc.52096$oW6.11852886@twister.nyc.rr.com>... "bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message news:411aa4cb$0$524$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net... > Caren wrote: > > Lucky me then, I carry a purse :-) I need the phone, the checkbook, > > the keys, the cards, the sunglasses, the palm pilot. No pockets are > > large enough to carry what I need. > > This is quite a problem for me. As a male if I carry a purse it > may be misinterpreted. So now that men don't wear jackets with > pockets as they used to where do they carry all this stuff ? simple - no phone. No palm pilot. Who needs all that crap anyway.... No checkbook (use a debit card) - everything fits in wallet. Sunglasses either on forehead or on a string around neck keys in other pocket. I know to you it's all simple JWB. Some of us have different needs than you. 1. Cell phone: it's my business line and a way for my husband and daughter to always be in touch with me if need be. 2. Palm Pilot: when you have kids and a business and make appointments when you're out, you know that you have not just double booked yourself. 3. I use a checkbook not a debit card 4. I wear prescription glasses and must have both pairs with me or I can't see 5. I usually wear sweats or shorts that don't have pockets to hold the keys. See? I love my purse though. Yabbut, you're a girl. Girls need "stuff"

Barf. People need stuff. You don't know any men that wear glasses,
use a checkbook, carries a palm pilot and a cellphone? You are
sheltered my dear boy!

"bogart" <bogart@here.there.com> wrote in message
news:411b2e50$0$546$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
I don't know how any divorced parents with kids ever managed without cellphones. Or even *any* parents with teenagers.

??? Well, you must have been a kid back then...why don't you ask your
parents? :-)

Jennifer

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hmqrge6id7d91@corp.supernews.com...
Is it possible to survive? Of course. That isn't the question - the question is, do they make life enough better to justify the expense. For some they will, for some they won't. I don't understand why people always point out that people used to survive without X or Y as a reason for not doing something

I think I react to the idea that it's not possible to raise a teenager
without giving him/her a cell phone. :-) I'm pretty old-fashioned, which
means that I'm sure I often reject technology that I should accept or would
benefit from accepting. At the same time, I think I reject some things that
truly are not beneficial for kids. Who knows, it's probably a wash in the
end. I certainly understand why many people enjoy having cell phones for
their children.

Jennifer

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2o1brtF54oiiU1@uni-berlin.de...
I don't know what's so important that a kid has to call home, though. If there's a real emergency (e.g., injury, vehicle malfunction), I'm sure the adults in charge have some way to contact the parents. Well.. we've already agreed that our form of child rearing is vastly different. For whatever reason they need to call.. say, they have been invited to stay for dinner, or sleep over... or from Steve's house they want to go to Adam's house- they have to call. Particularly since Steve's house is in one town, but Adam's house might be three towns over. I don't allow them the freedom to be traveling all over creation mindlessly. If they say they are at Steve's.. they better be at Steve's, or they better call.

Yup, I do that too. My kids, though, have to use Steve's landline. :-)
I'm very on top of where my kids are at all times...as in, practically down
to the second, lol...but I haven't had a problem with landlines so far.

I imagine my method could become a future in the (hopefully distant!) future
if, for instance, families and friends stop using landlines at all. Right
now, my kids will be at a neighbor's house, they'll call me if they want to
go to another neighbor's house, and so on. If the next door neighbor's kid
is over and wants to do something and needs permission, I tell him to call
his parents.
If a kid asks to make a long distance call just to talk to Mom or Dad, that is something where I would argue that the kid doesn't need to call Mom and Dad. Then my kids would never have been allowed at your house if they didn't have cells :-P

ROFL! I imagine that's true. :-) All my kids' friends live nearby, so
there's no issue with long distance. I meant that if I were the adult in
charge on a field trip situation, I would discourage the kids from calling
long distance to talk to the parents. At my house, I've never forbidden
children to use the landline, and I also let them call whenever they like.
:-) (To be fair, sometimes I'm dealing with a homesick 11-year-old at 3
a.m. who wants to go home from a sleepover.)
I would hate to have to listen to my kids complaining because one kid or another is on the phone.

While I see that as an opportunity to teach the kids to be patient, wait
their turn, share, etc. I actually *like* that they have to work out who
gets the phone when. (I'm not saying your kids don't have all those
skills!! :-D My kids need all the help they can get to learn how to
share!)
I also would never have allowed my son to call his girlfriend without the cell either, as she also lives four towns over.

I guess that depends on your plans in general. We have an excellent long
distance plan. I'd probably say call, pay some, I'll pay the rest, you
know? It wouldn't, for me anyway, be the reason for me to get a cell phone.
Or I could even say, use my cell if you want to call Betsy. :-)
FWIW, I'm not that interested in limiting time, as long as everything else is done and the child isn't supposed to be going to bed or anything. I remember having hour-long conversations with my girlfriends, having pulled the cord into the mudroom, lol. :-) (OH, I should add, I've never had a cordless.) That would absolutely drive me insane. Seriously. I like to sit out back on the lawn swing and chat.

Well, I do get that with my cell. :-)
I would think you'd love a cordless.. add a baby monitor, and you'd be able to listen to all the conversations going on without having to pick up a handset since you said you like to eavesdrop.

*snerk* ;-) Nothing goes on when they're sitting quietly in their rooms...
:-D
I don't know if you recall that I got a cell phone for them, kicking and screaming because of demands that my ex put upon me. I was furious and even now, wish I'd have taken him to court over this whole thing, because once he got his way over that one, he thought he could force other stuff that he had no business getting involved with. I *am* glad they have the phones, I wish it came about under different circumstances.

I don't remember the exact circumstances, but I know you had to deal with a
lot of crap!

Jennifer