dadsquared
02-23-2007, 05:52 AM
First off, I'm more than happy to admit that I'm COMPLETELY in the dark when it comes to legal matters- i don't know the terms, as you'e about to find out, but I do know what fills me with dread- which is why I'm seeking advice here, because there's plenty of dread on my part...
My wife and I (and by extension our two young children) are part of a small community of 11 houses/families. Before we bought this place in 1999, we were told that there were covenants (ok, I know what THAT term is, I guess!:) ) We're pretty low key and have never voilated those covenants by, say, putting up an outhouse or anything like that.
The only way in and out of our community was a little gravel lane- a lane which many of the "old timers" back here (people who have been here from the start- roughly 1976) had been trying to get blacktopped. However, they were never able to get enough votes to do it (covenants saying that 3/4 of the total houses back here had to be "for" any changes made to the lane- and if that's the case, the resisting 1/4 had to go along with it).
To make an already long story shorter, in 2005, 9 of the 11 houses voted to blacktop the lane- I voted in favor of this, if for nothing else than to give me a little peace from the "pro-blacktop" families who were bugging us about this! :)). Two houses refused to pay- which I knew would happen, wasn't happy about it, but I was happy to chip in extra to blacktop the lane, and considered that money "gone". The lane was blacktopped, peace existed until about a week ago.
Then- our "road commitee" back here started telling the rest of us that we were going to take the "nonpayers" to small claims court. I DO NOT like this idea at all. Yes, I know they didn't pay, and it would be fair if they did. but I prefer "peace" over "fair" in this matter.
I talked with the head of the road commitee, told him that I didn't want to do this at all, he said there was no way to extricate myself from these covenants, that our non-paying neighbors are violating them, and that it's an open and shut case in small claims court. I asked him if there were any rules in the covenants about the rest of us voting on whether or not we should take legal action against these neighbors- was it a simple majority or 2/3? He THEN said, almost in passing....
....and in a horror movie, this is where the spooky music would come up.....
....he said "we'll just do simple majority. The covenants have been expired for years". This guy is fond of talking in legaleese, and dropped many times that he's talked with a lawyer about this.
My questions:
1) IF the covenants have been expired for years, and IF the covenants were expired before the lane was blacktopped in 2005, can our two "non-paying neighbors" be forced to pay? A big part of me is hoping that the answer is "no- they can't be forced to pay" because I don't have the time to get involved in this matter....
2) If it IS legal to take them to small claims court over this situation, what's the worst case scenario? Can these neighbors retailiate in any way, from a legal/court point of view? Again, I'm not thrilled that these neighbors didn't pay, but I'd rather have peace and quiet than be trapped in Dante's fifth level of litigous hell....
3) is there any way that I, as a homeowner back here, can see our covenants? are they at our county courthouse? I BELIEVE that I saw them once not long after we moved here, but I can't remember the situation
4) How are covenants renewed? I'm thinking that there has to be something singned and filed, as opposed to people just saying "yeah, they're expired, but we've always done it this way".
Thanks for putting up with these questions by someone who is totally "in the dark" with these matters.
DSQ
My wife and I (and by extension our two young children) are part of a small community of 11 houses/families. Before we bought this place in 1999, we were told that there were covenants (ok, I know what THAT term is, I guess!:) ) We're pretty low key and have never voilated those covenants by, say, putting up an outhouse or anything like that.
The only way in and out of our community was a little gravel lane- a lane which many of the "old timers" back here (people who have been here from the start- roughly 1976) had been trying to get blacktopped. However, they were never able to get enough votes to do it (covenants saying that 3/4 of the total houses back here had to be "for" any changes made to the lane- and if that's the case, the resisting 1/4 had to go along with it).
To make an already long story shorter, in 2005, 9 of the 11 houses voted to blacktop the lane- I voted in favor of this, if for nothing else than to give me a little peace from the "pro-blacktop" families who were bugging us about this! :)). Two houses refused to pay- which I knew would happen, wasn't happy about it, but I was happy to chip in extra to blacktop the lane, and considered that money "gone". The lane was blacktopped, peace existed until about a week ago.
Then- our "road commitee" back here started telling the rest of us that we were going to take the "nonpayers" to small claims court. I DO NOT like this idea at all. Yes, I know they didn't pay, and it would be fair if they did. but I prefer "peace" over "fair" in this matter.
I talked with the head of the road commitee, told him that I didn't want to do this at all, he said there was no way to extricate myself from these covenants, that our non-paying neighbors are violating them, and that it's an open and shut case in small claims court. I asked him if there were any rules in the covenants about the rest of us voting on whether or not we should take legal action against these neighbors- was it a simple majority or 2/3? He THEN said, almost in passing....
....and in a horror movie, this is where the spooky music would come up.....
....he said "we'll just do simple majority. The covenants have been expired for years". This guy is fond of talking in legaleese, and dropped many times that he's talked with a lawyer about this.
My questions:
1) IF the covenants have been expired for years, and IF the covenants were expired before the lane was blacktopped in 2005, can our two "non-paying neighbors" be forced to pay? A big part of me is hoping that the answer is "no- they can't be forced to pay" because I don't have the time to get involved in this matter....
2) If it IS legal to take them to small claims court over this situation, what's the worst case scenario? Can these neighbors retailiate in any way, from a legal/court point of view? Again, I'm not thrilled that these neighbors didn't pay, but I'd rather have peace and quiet than be trapped in Dante's fifth level of litigous hell....
3) is there any way that I, as a homeowner back here, can see our covenants? are they at our county courthouse? I BELIEVE that I saw them once not long after we moved here, but I can't remember the situation
4) How are covenants renewed? I'm thinking that there has to be something singned and filed, as opposed to people just saying "yeah, they're expired, but we've always done it this way".
Thanks for putting up with these questions by someone who is totally "in the dark" with these matters.
DSQ
